Northwestern Should be a Basketball School

[AdamOnFirst]

Making a full thread on this. I'm a football guy over basketball by a wide margin, but last night just emphasizes that NU is better suited to be a basketball school. The crowd is great and our campus and students are quick to pack out Welsh-Ryan, unlike football where it's a constant struggle even when the team is alright. We get a much higher percent in purple, and our small stadium is a true atmospheric advantage in many ways. There is a MUCH larger national history of small academic schools being premium basketball programs. Chicago seems like the perfect place for a little basketball school to be.

Jackson, Schmidt, and the department should act accordingly. Football shouldn't be starved, it's still the cash cow and we should still invest enough for a competitive and respectable team, but when making revenue sharing and other resource decisions the emphasis should be on dollars for hoops. For example, if the typical football school is taking their $20 million in revenue sharing and giving $14 million to football, $4 million to basketball, and $2 million to everything else, NU should give football $11M and basketball $7M.

 

[FeralFelidae]

It's not the worst idea in the world.

 

[clarificationcat]

Making a full thread on this. I'm a football guy over basketball by a wide margin, but last night just emphasizes that NU is better suited to be a basketball school. The crowd is great and our campus and students are quick to pack out Welsh-Ryan, unlike football where it's a constant struggle even when the team is alright. We get a much higher percent in purple, and our small stadium is a true atmospheric advantage in many ways. There is a MUCH larger national history of small academic schools being premium basketball programs. Chicago seems like the perfect place for a little basketball school to be.

Jackson, Schmidt, and the department should act accordingly. Football shouldn't be starved, it's still the cash cow and we should still invest enough for a competitive and respectable team, but when making revenue sharing and other resource decisions the emphasis should be on dollars for hoops. For example, if the typical football school is taking their $20 million in revenue sharing and giving $14 million to football, $4 million to basketball, and $2 million to everything else, NU should give football $11M and basketball $7M.

I have thought the same thing. I have been going to football games for a very long time and there have only been a few games where I thought we had a true home field advantage. Even this year, we can’t fill a high school stadium. I don’t see a path forward to be consistently good in football in the current environment. Of course, happy to be wrong.

 

[SmellyCat]

When I was a student, NU was bad at both, but I was definitely more of a basketball guy (I rarely missed either, for what it's worth). Then, when NU hoops continued wandering in the wilderness after Evan Eschmeyer left and Barnett, Walker, and Fitz frequently led NU football to fun seasons. My travel plans to Chicago often revolved around going to a football game, but until last year against Dayton, I hadn't been to a game at WRA in years.

Well, I am all in on basketball again. It's not quite being a fair-weather fan (lord knows I have supported a lot of lousy-weathered teams over the years) - it's just that team is more fun. If I HAD to pick one team to be good and the other to be terrible, I guess I'm saying let's go with basketball, as it's just possible in this day and age to do it, and I fear NU will never be able to commit to doing what it takes to turn into a football school in the era of the transfer portals and NIL.

 

[rogerkim]

Making a full thread on this. I'm a football guy over basketball by a wide margin, but last night just emphasizes that NU is better suited to be a basketball school. The crowd is great and our campus and students are quick to pack out Welsh-Ryan, unlike football where it's a constant struggle even when the team is alright. We get a much higher percent in purple, and our small stadium is a true atmospheric advantage in many ways. There is a MUCH larger national history of small academic schools being premium basketball programs. Chicago seems like the perfect place for a little basketball school to be.

Jackson, Schmidt, and the department should act accordingly. Football shouldn't be starved, it's still the cash cow and we should still invest enough for a competitive and respectable team, but when making revenue sharing and other resource decisions the emphasis should be on dollars for hoops. For example, if the typical football school is taking their $20 million in revenue sharing and giving $14 million to football, $4 million to basketball, and $2 million to everything else, NU should give football $11M and basketball $7M.

This is an interesting idea. I especially like the idea of not starving the football program, but making sure that basketball is given a slight emphasis/priority. This definitely tracks with which sport I have always thought it would be easier to make a leap to top-tier competitiveness. You only need a few elite players in basketball and you're suddenly a tourney team, while in football, you have to have several solid OL and DL players, along with great skill position players, plus the depth on both sides of the ball to withstand the inevitable injuries.

I would like to reserve judgement on the issue of the stadium/arena of basketball vs football until after the new Ryan Field is built. From everything we have heard, it is supposed to be the football equivalent of Welsh-Ryan Arena, with smaller capacity, more intimate setting, better acoustics, etc. But I would generally agree, with the size of our undergraduate student body, the Wildside's impact on homecourt/homefield advantage will probably always be bigger in basketball than in football. It's just a numbers game: even if every single undergrad (8,845 for 2024) shows up to a football game at the new Ryan Field, that would be just 1/4 of the capacity (35,000 estimated). If every undergrad shows up to a basketball game, Welsh-Ryan would be filled beyond capacity (7,039).

I remain hopeful that, if our football team can achieve some success in the new Ryan Field's inaugural season, the students will attend and have a greater impact on our homefield advantage thanks to better acoustics in the new stadium, similar to how the student section in WRA gets to a thunderous level at times.

 

[pschatz25]

Makes sense. It's certainly nice to see the vision of new WRA as more of a home court advantage finally coming to fruition. Last year was critical in building momentum and the team delivered. I live in Evanston and you really noticed the increase in interest. I saw more families from my kids' school at games last year than ever before. And several of them bought season tickets this season.

I started going to football games in the early 90's and have been on the roller coaster as its gone up and down a few times since then. The falloff in interest since 2020 has been sad to see. It was shocking how small the crowds were last season. And despite the hype for the temporary stadium the cracks of fan apathy were clear even before the season started. It's going to take a long time to rebuilt.

 

[EagerFan]

I've been a basketball cats fan for a long time. I think NU is much more of a basketball school than a football school, but that might just be my own bias.

But I don't know that the numbers for this year's football is entirely solid - I was interested in going, but the school totally priced me out of the market, and I'm too lazy to try and find stuff on the secondary markets. I think that pricing was a huge mistake for a lot of reasons and I hope they reconsider/lower it next season.

For the money game, I think an equitable split is fair. Football needs more money to entice/hang on to a similar percentage of difference makers.

 

[jensberg]

I've been a basketball cats fan for a long time. I think NU is much more of a basketball school than a football school, but that might just be my own bias.

But I don't know that the numbers for this year's football is entirely solid - I was interested in going, but the school totally priced me out of the market, and I'm too lazy to try and find stuff on the secondary markets. I think that pricing was a huge mistake for a lot of reasons and I hope they reconsider/lower it next season.

For the money game, I think an equitable split is fair. Football needs more money to entice/hang on to a similar percentage of difference makers.

I went to school in the late 60s when we had a pretty good basketball team and football team. I used to go to games for both. Basketball was much more enjoyable to me as that's a sport I played all my life. Kind of agree with the concept since basketball is easier to be successful at with just a few key players required.

 

[lunker35]

Making a full thread on this. I'm a football guy over basketball by a wide margin, but last night just emphasizes that NU is better suited to be a basketball school. The crowd is great and our campus and students are quick to pack out Welsh-Ryan, unlike football where it's a constant struggle even when the team is alright. We get a much higher percent in purple, and our small stadium is a true atmospheric advantage in many ways. There is a MUCH larger national history of small academic schools being premium basketball programs. Chicago seems like the perfect place for a little basketball school to be.

Jackson, Schmidt, and the department should act accordingly. Football shouldn't be starved, it's still the cash cow and we should still invest enough for a competitive and respectable team, but when making revenue sharing and other resource decisions the emphasis should be on dollars for hoops. For example, if the typical football school is taking their $20 million in revenue sharing and giving $14 million to football, $4 million to basketball, and $2 million to everything else, NU should give football $11M and basketball $7M.

I said that 15 years ago and most of you thought I was crazy. Finally becoming a reality.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I said that 15 years ago and most of you thought I was crazy. Finally becoming a reality.

We are still a football school, just better in basketball.

 

[EagerFan]

There's just a much smaller margin for error in games for football as there just a handful of games played for the entire season. Lose 6 or 7 conference games in basketball and you're still in the race for the tourney. That many losses in football and you're Purdue.

 

[TXnumbCAT]

When I was a student in the early 90s, we were pretty bad in both sports. I always predicted that we would go to the NCAA tourney before the Rose Bowl because one stud can carry a team in hoops.

I was quickly proven wrong. 🤓

But now I would predict making a Final Four before ever making the 12 team CFP.

 

[IGNORE2]

When I was a student in the early 90s, we were pretty bad in both sports. I always predicted that we would go to the NCAA tourney before the Rose Bowl because one stud can carry a team in hoops.

I was quickly proven wrong. 🤓

But now I would predict making a Final Four before ever making the 12 team CFP.

And how. EE was that legitimate stud. I would argue VV was another. But you are right about how the stars aligned. Or the right coaches came into place.

This is the greatest argument as to the relevance and importance of coaches. GB mafe a difference. Can’t say whether RW did or surfed the coattails. I think RW was also a game changing coach.

MBB saw an interesting coaching progression. Can’t remember the guy’s name but he ultimately coached with the bulls. Looked like he was on the brink. But that AD prick ran him out and it became a progression.

NU could bring in a stud. But never enough. A history of 1.5 players with no depth. Carmody began to build something with a bunch of good enough. CCC came in and added some talent to the depth and struck gold. But it was a combo. And he chased high ceiling low floor guys without that depth.

I give CCC all the props for checking his ego and adapting, hiring better and adjusting his recruiting. He might become a HOF coach. He has shown much of what it takes. And I applaud his latest recruiting class and everything over the last few years.

But to SD, he ain’t JC. And his ability to change demonstrates a great coaching characteristic. I would embrace his early failures and willingness to grow and learn to show how good he is.

I have gone from the fire CCC to give him a reasonable length contract at any number and all the budget he requests. I believe he has grown into a very good coach. I don’t step back from any of my armchair QB opinions or the future ones. But I am and have been a CCC fan. I simply suggest SD reflect a bit.

 

[Eurocat]

We can do both. Like Stanford and Vanderbilt and Duke.

 

[Hkjb]

When I was a student in the early 90s, we were pretty bad in both sports. I always predicted that we would go to the NCAA tourney before the Rose Bowl because one stud can carry a team in hoops.

I was quickly proven wrong. 🤓

But now I would predict making a Final Four before ever making the 12 team CFP.

Me too - I graduated in the late 80's and my friend and I always had the idea that we would break through in hoops first for the reason you mentioned. Seems it may finally be happening.

 

[hdhntr1]

Making a full thread on this. I'm a football guy over basketball by a wide margin, but last night just emphasizes that NU is better suited to be a basketball school. The crowd is great and our campus and students are quick to pack out Welsh-Ryan, unlike football where it's a constant struggle even when the team is alright. We get a much higher percent in purple, and our small stadium is a true atmospheric advantage in many ways. There is a MUCH larger national history of small academic schools being premium basketball programs. Chicago seems like the perfect place for a little basketball school to be.

Jackson, Schmidt, and the department should act accordingly. Football shouldn't be starved, it's still the cash cow and we should still invest enough for a competitive and respectable team, but when making revenue sharing and other resource decisions the emphasis should be on dollars for hoops. For example, if the typical football school is taking their $20 million in revenue sharing and giving $14 million to football, $4 million to basketball, and $2 million to everything else, NU should give football $11M and basketball $7M.

At this point unless the extra money is in payment to the players, the increase would probably not help much

 

[usopen30]

I went to school in the late 60s when we had a pretty good basketball team and football team. I used to go to games for both. Basketball was much more enjoyable to me as that's a sport I played all my life. Kind of agree with the concept since basketball is easier to be successful at with just a few key players required.

I was at NU in the late 60's and remember a lot of football pain except for the occasional good players such as Chico Kurzawski, Mike Adamle and a few guys on defense. Basketball was way more enjoyable at McGaw Hall with Dan Davis and some good players around him

 

[Catreporter]

Yes, the Cats were pretty good in hoops in the late 60s with Don Adams (who went on to have a decent NBA career) and Dale Kelley, along with Davis. I think they started 4-0 in the Big Ten one year before fading. Football had two good years in 1970 and 71 before the Dark Ages in both sports started. Basketball had a few moments in the 80s and then cratered again and, of course, it took until 1995 for football to come back. This new NIL and free transfer era presents some more great challenges for NU, but at least we will have some great facilities going forward that we definitely did NOT have back in those days.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

At this point unless the extra money is in payment to the players, the increase would probably not help much

The extra money is in payment to the players

 

[CMcCat]

When I was at NU in the late ‘80s the football team was awful and the basketball team not much better. But we would get to hoops games at least 30 minutes before tipoff to get the best seats and the student section would fill. My freshman year the band played the team on to to the court for warmups to the theme from Late Night with David Letterman (no joke!).

It was ever clear that hoops were the most likely to be competitive until shortly after a guy was introduced at halftime of a game and said he would “take the Purple to Pasadena.” I remembered chuckling on my way to the men’s room thinking that guy doesn’t know what he’s in for.

 

[SmellyCat]

When I was at NU in the late ‘80s the football team was awful and the basketball team not much better. But we would get to hoops games at least 30 minutes before tipoff to get the best seats and the student section would fill. My freshman year the band played the team on to to the court for warmups to the theme from Late Night with David Letterman (no joke!).

It was ever clear that hoops were the most likely to be competitive until shortly after a guy was introduced at halftime of a game and said he would “take the Purple to Pasadena.” I remembered chuckling on my way to the men’s room thinking that guy doesn’t know what he’s in for.

Does the band still play William Tell overture the last 30 seconds before the game starts? That was one of my favorite hoops traditions from that era.

 

[CatManTrue]

I have thought the same thing. I have been going to football games for a very long time and there have only been a few games where I thought we had a true home field advantage. Even this year, we can’t fill a high school stadium. I don’t see a path forward to be consistently good in football in the current environment. Of course, happy to be wrong.

NU simply does not belong with the U$Cs and O$Us of the world. Even Notre Dame. NU’s degree is not worth the cash these guys can make at real football schools.

Imagine if Northwestern and Miami (FL) swapped places in the ACC and Stanford & Cal stay there too.

The ACC is a Much better fit for NU & ND. Phillips know this too

 

[samuirocks]

Where can we watch a replay?

 

[CappyNU]

Where can we watch a replay?

Of last night's game? Here: https://www.foxsports.com/replay/fmc-3fejbvznfb9a0oev

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Does the band still play William Tell overture the last 30 seconds before the game starts? That was one of my favorite hoops traditions from that era.

No, they don't. It was great when they hit the last note just before the buzzer.

 

[SmellyCat]

No, they don't. It was great when they hit the last note just before the buzzer.

Yeah, I loved that. Sometimes they'd start a little late and have to do it really fast, but they always beat the buzzer. I was never in the band myself, but I always sat right next to them (I remember once when a tuba fell on my head) so I felt like I had a kinship with those guys.

 

[Gatabowl]

I never thought I’d feel this way but given the choice I actually prefer being a basketball school. (I absolutely love college football and obviously both would be ideal).

The arena and atmosphere give us a home advantage that we haven’t had in football in decades and it’s so much fun to have an intimidating arena with engaged students. It’s also great to be able to see a good team play so often.

 

[CMcCat]

Does the band still play William Tell overture the last 30 seconds before the game starts? That was one of my favorite hoops traditions from that era.

That was great. Although I always thought they could have pushed it to :25.