OT: World Cup Open Thread to Entertain Us In the Runup to Bowl Season
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Messi and Mbappe were terrific for their respective teams,however the goalie Martinez for Argentina saved the day. That save late in the 2nd OT got the Argentines to the PK where they took care of business. Just a wonderful World Cup Final.
I disagree 100%. Messi is extreme competitive, but I haven't seen much evidence of your take on him. He seems loved by both his teammates and the people he competes against. Mbappe on the other hand seems like a lot of those things you think about Messi. Lots of chatter about how much he's disliked.
An excellent alternate-Manning cast for the World Cup would be a bunch of US college football coaches in a room with a keg or two opining on the game.
There's always Alexi Lalas on Fox, who by himself makes up for room full of drunk commentators.
Lalas is arguably the most famous living Rutgers alumnus at this time. Allow that to sink in to your head.
Kelsey Graham? If you mean Kelsey Grammer, no, he is not a Rutgers alumnus. As for your lack of knowledge of who Alexi Lalas is, it proves my point.
Why would anyone want to watch folks who are completely uneducated about a sport talk about it, drunk or not?
Manning-cast is funny and cool precisely because you know those guys know football inside and out, along with personally knowing a lot the coaches, players, and refs.
College football coaches talking about soccer would be like Ohio State players talking about a class they are taking. They wouldn’t know anything about it.
You are right! Frasier I meant. Why was he on the sidelines at a Rutgers football game as honorary captain this season? The pbp dude made it seem yes?? Can u explain who the heck a.l. is??
Lalas played for Rutgers on two final four soccer teams. He played for the US Men's National team in the 1994 World Cup, and played well enough, and had a distinctive enough looks (hair and beard, at the time) to gain some recognition. He then played in the MLS and finally became an announcer for US Men's Soccer.
Mbappe’s issues are not that new. The locker room issues at PSG are nothing new. The off-season issues and jealousy are nothing new.
Messi stories go back a lot longer than Mbappe. I don’t mean to discard your info on footie, but you probably don’t read about it daily. I do. For over 3 decades now. And there’s a lot of it outside the confines or American media. A lot. Though, for example, The Athletic has been doing an incredible job in covering it. But the point is, in places like Spain or Italy, just to mention a couple, there are daily sports only newspapers. As many as 3 in a single country, printed, with coverage that is 90% footie. There’s a lot to go back 20 years and understand the “real” Messi. You won’t hear about it in broadcasts, it is just not good business to do so.
Just Google what happens in the game against the Netherlands as they was a week ago. That will get you started, and there are dozens and dozens of Messi issues. But he’s quiet, he does it, in most cases, without wild gesticulating on the field. Without dramatic expression. All while being an a-hole.
Ultimately if you like him, if you are on his camp, and know about it, you write it off as being very competitive. You know, the old “he’s an a hole but he’s our a hole”. He does what he needs to do to win. Bla bla bla. Nothing new, how many athletes coast their entire careers with people making excuses? I know it’s not apples to apples as his issues are far more serious, but a quarterback from Pittsburgh comes to mind.
Messi’s public perception is also unequivocally connected to the Messi or Ronaldo question. So you compare the two. Ronaldo has a vain public image, on the pitch emotional expressions, lots of gesticulating, over the top goal celebrations. The opposite of Messi. Off the pitch he’s like the Kardashians, just seems to have a talent for keeping attention on him. Instagram pics of his six pack abs, and so on and so on.
Yep, lots to criticize about Ronaldo and he probably deserves most of it. But that does not excuse Messi. I’m not nice because I am not a serial killer type of person. Ultimately, conscious or not, Messi’s perception is always tied to Ronaldo whether we believe it affects us or not.
In the end, Messi is an a hole. A smart a hole. But one nonetheless.
Wasn't Michael Jordan considered an a-hole during his playing career (and beyond)?
This is still weird. Was MJ widely known as a “nice guy” in practice, on the court? Is Tom Brady?
Much to my surprise, the game lived up to "soccers" claim to be the world's game.
Argentina dominated the first half with a relentless attack, creating the dreaded two goal lead. Messi's pass on the second goal was magical
In the second half, France increased its pressure and Argentina fell back into a more defensive style, trying to live on counter attacks, rather than the style that had gotten them the 2 goal lead.
The game seemed over in OT when Messi scored but France countered with a PK and almost won before a great save
The shoot out crowned the team I thought deserved the trophy but the game was still "beautiful"
Argentina dominated the first half with a relentless attack, creating the dreaded two goal lead. Messi's pass on the second goal was magical
In the second half, France increased its pressure and Argentina fell back into a more defensive style, trying to live on counter attacks, rather than the style that had gotten them the 2 goal lead.
The game seemed over in OT when Messi scored but France countered with a PK and almost won before a great save
The shoot out crowned the team I thought deserved the trophy but the game was still "beautiful"
Yes. My point was not to question his quality as a player, but to point out that, just Like MJ he’s a bit of an a hole. Unlike MJ, that’s not necessarily widely known. On the contrary, I believe he’s seen as this humble choir boy.
Personally I don’t tend to care about players who I perceive as a holes. Unless they play for my team. Obviously.
Personally I also think Messi is top 5 all time. Just because I don’t care for him does not mean I don’t admire his ability. He makes it look so easy on the field.
I agree. Not much difference between the fllop that he issued a card on and his first two penalty kick calls. He should have kept his whistle in his hand and let play continue.
Not with you on that one, Corbi. He let a LOT of other tackles in the box go, especially in crunch time. It took guts, I thought, to lay off those calls. I thought he called the right ones... or most of them anyway.
But wow, what an AMAZING final. Definitely my all time personal record for very loud "WHOA!!!"s and "OH MY GOD!!!"s at the TV. What an absolute thrill to see the two best players in the world both have jaw-dropping, statement career games in the Final, and for Messi to finish his remarkable career in grandest style. I heard a TV guy call Messi the "joyful ewok". Love that - very fitting. What a joy to watch him play, and so casually make Magic Johnson type passes to set up his teammates, and always a smile on his face. Wow.
I'd rank this game as one of the greatest sporting events of my lifetime, up there with Sarah Hughes in 2002, and the Cubs game 7 comeback in 2016, and also NU-Michiscum 96, which I attended. I'm also really happy for the people of Argentina.
The World Cup flat out rocks. I cannot wait for next year's women's event, and for four years from now right here in our backyards.
LATE EDIT: Gato, I'm glad I'm completely ignorant of everything you say about Messi - none of which I doubt. I mostly watch the World Cup, and not much more soccer. Jordan's career, in fact, was a big reason why I have intentionally avoided learning about the lives of athletes off the field, or their on-field baggage. Don't need it. Got plenty enough junk in my own life, my family and my coworkers. I LOVE watching Messi (and Mbappe) play. That's enough for me.
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Only question was re: red on the first France penalty. I would have shown the card for DOGSO, but ref may have thought he was too wide and not cutting in (which obviously because of the foul in my eyes).
If your point is that he's "a bit of an a hole"...um...okay. I'm not sure what your expectations are, but that's my expectation for most athletes who are among the best in the world at what they do. They almost have to be to stay atop their game. So, vain? Sure. Greedy? You bet. Self-involved and dismissive of others? Uh-huh. But if you think he's an extraordinary a hole on the elite athlete scale, I think you've got that wrong. I've worked with a fair amount and he's struck me as middle of the road on that scale.
And I agree that it doesn't matter in terms of how great he is on the field.
I know man, you are right that probably it’s a unicorn situation to find someone that is that good and not a competitive maniac.
And my perceptions can easily be influenced greatly by how, especially at the end of careers, we hear so much praise of athletes. I recently heard some former player turned pundit saying something like “Messi is one of the greatest of all times, but we are at the stage that he makes a somewhat normal pass and everyone is pointing out how genius it is”.
I said my take would be unpopular. It was.
You mean his deal like the ambassadorial deal Beckham did with Qatar? Or Ronaldo's purported transfer to the Saudi league? Lebron and his cozy deals with the Chinese? Jimmy Connors playing in South Africa? All of the LIV golfers?
I don't know if summing up Messi's "character" is as simple as that. The list of great athletes who took money from unsavory places is as long as the history of great athletes.
For my two cents, all of the unsavory arrangements you point out do speak poorly of the character of the athletes involved. Especially because almost all of the stars you list have enough money to have taken the high road.
Tiger’s snubbing his nose at the Saudi golf league speaks a lot about his character, his multiple extra marital affairs, and driving while impaired notwithstanding.
Tiger’s snubbing his nose at the Saudi golf league speaks a lot about his character, his multiple extra marital affairs, and driving while impaired notwithstanding.
Appreciate your perspective. I think it kind of underlines my point, which is that elite pro athletes are just human beings with failings like everybody else. Tiger has his. Messi has his. TB12 has his. Lebron has his. Deifying these guys seems to be one of the big things that Gato originally was pushing back against. I suspect all of them are capable of being incredibly giving and gracious people and all of them are capable of being insufferable a-holes, just like the rest of us.
Andres Cantor was born in Buenos Aires before moving to Los Angeles as a teen, and this is perfect.
I'm a BIG fan of Mr Cantor. That's just a little over the top, but.... gotta love that guy. He's the best.
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