Other scandals

[curdog]

I don’t necessarily question the firing of Fitzgerald (although after the 180 on his penalty I feel like the public is owed the report’s release), but it’s strange to me how some scandals are handled differently than others. Im thinking of Iowa (the numerous complaints of racial bias, the off-season workouts that resulted in multiple players being hospitalized), ND with the student dying because excessive winds blew him off a tower, Ohio state (Jim tresses gets fired for tattogate while meyer skated on the asst beating his wife scandal). I’m sure there are others that i am lazy to look up.

I don’t have a takeaway other than it seems to be a crapshoot.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Well, in NU's case, it was a group of ambitious journalism students that forced the issue and I guess it says something about Medill that a group of students over summer break were able to bring the university to its knees. I have some... questions about the unbalanced way they presented the story, but at how many other universities would the student newspaper be able to achieve this?

 

[Darren72]

The student journalist have no power.

These aren’t the droids you’re looking for.

 

[CatManTrue]

I don’t necessarily question the firing of Fitzgerald (although after the 180 on his penalty I feel like the public is owed the report’s release), but it’s strange to me how some scandals are handled differently than others. Im thinking of Iowa (the numerous complaints of racial bias, the off-season workouts that resulted in multiple players being hospitalized), ND with the student dying because excessive winds blew him off a tower, Ohio state (Jim tresses gets fired for tattogate while meyer skated on the asst beating his wife scandal). I’m sure there are others that i am lazy to look up.

I don’t have a takeaway other than it seems to be a crapshoot.

The answer is simple.

Northwestern is a University of integrity where the wellbeing of student athletes is more important than the football program. When a scandal was revealed, it was ultimately addressed.

Iowa, Notre Dame, OSU, and the SEC all worship football above the wellbeing of their players. Their alums will flip out if they fired a head coach for anyone other than losing too many games. They are hypocrites.

 

[NU Houston]

Well, in NU's case, it was a group of ambitious journalism students that forced the issue and I guess it says something about Medill that a group of students over summer break were able to bring the university to its knees. I have some... questions about the unbalanced way they presented the story, but at how many other universities would the student newspaper be able to achieve this?

I wish the Daily articles had provided more context and perspective. The hazing article was based on info provided by the whistleblower and one other person. The ENTIRE TEAM then wrote a letter stating that the allegations were twisted and distorted. Did the Daily even attempt to reach out to anyone else on the team to get another viewpoint on the situation? At least the university's investigation interviewed 50+ former and current players, and perhaps that report (which needs to be released) reached a conclusion about the situation that wasn't as damning as what came across in the Daily piece.

The racism article was particularly troubling for me. It relied on player claims from the 2000's, including claims of inappropriate comments by a coach who has been gone for 15+ years and complaints about Fitz's short hair policy that got scrapped a decade ago. Further explanation and context were needed in the article. Claims of racism should be vetted thoroughly and responsibly. That didn't appear to happen with this Daily article, and now NU football is viewed as having a "racism" problem in addition to a hazing one (see the faculty letter released yesterday as an example).

 

[peatymeanis]

The ENTIRE TEAM then wrote a letter stating that the allegations were twisted and distorted. Did the Daily even attempt to reach out to anyone else on the team to get another viewpoint on the situation? At least the university's investigation interviewed 50+ former and current players, and perhaps that report (which needs to be released) reached a conclusion about the situation that wasn't as damning as what came across in the Daily piece.

Please reread Schill’s letter again carefully. 11 players corroborated the hazing. The investigator has said that the whistleblower’s allegations were largely validated. Hell, read Lou V’s own reporting on this. The hazing - the car wash, etc was confirmed by him as well. From players as well as staff. Let’s stop going into denial about what has and has not been confirmed. I agree the report should be released in full. But this is not an instance of the Daily’s article being the only salacious source of info.

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

Please reread Schill’s letter again carefully. 11 players corroborated the hazing. The investigator has said that the whistleblower’s allegations were largely validated. Hell, read Lou V’s own reporting on this. The hazing - the car wash, etc was confirmed by him as well. From players as well as staff. Let’s stop going into denial about what has and has not been confirmed. I agree the report should be released in full. But this is not an instance of the Daily’s article being the only salacious source of info.

I’m not in denial that things happen. I still would like context on what a “car wash” “shred clap” and other actions were, who organized them, how, where and when they were performed.

I would have accepted the present situation much easier if the initial reaction of a two week forced leave weren’t initially imposed. Instead we have a Daily article leading to a firing and a wrongful termination lawsuit. I would like to see the full extent of the evidence

 

[NU Houston]

Please reread Schill’s letter again carefully. 11 players corroborated the hazing. The investigator has said that the whistleblower’s allegations were largely validated. Hell, read Lou V’s own reporting on this. The hazing - the car wash, etc was confirmed by him as well. From players as well as staff. Let’s stop going into denial about what has and has not been confirmed. I agree the report should be released in full. But this is not an instance of the Daily’s article being the only salacious source of info.

How am I in denial? Please reread my post again carefully. The 11 players apparently corroborated that hazing occurred, but we don't know if their accounts match the whistleblower's. NU needs to release a redacted version of the report. Until then, we're really relying on the whistleblower's account as told to the Daily as the primary source of information. To me, that seems incomplete and potentially misleading.

 

[corbi296]

Well, in NU's case, it was a group of ambitious journalism students that forced the issue and I guess it says something about Medill that a group of students over summer break were able to bring the university to its knees. I have some... questions about the unbalanced way they presented the story, but at how many other universities would the student newspaper be able to achieve this?

It’s not an achievement. They think it is and that was part of the motivation/problem. They determined from the start that the end/justified the means. All they did was harm the University and temporarily tarnish a good man’s reputation. With time the full picture will come out, the feeding frenzy will abate and the mob’s attention will be focused on another “cause”. My prediction is that Fitz’s reputation will be redeemed.

 

[peatymeanis]

How am I in denial? Please reread my post again carefully. The 11 players apparently corroborated that hazing occurred, but we don't know if their accounts match the whistleblower's. NU needs to release a redacted version of the report. Until then, we're really relying on the whistleblower's account as told to the Daily as the primary source of information. To me, that seems incomplete and potentially misleading.

Do you think the board of trustees would allow Fitz to be fired if the accounts didn’t match up? Come on people, let’s use our brains. To the point, nobody has actually come out and explicitly said that the weird homoerotic hazing sh*t didn’t happen. That doesn’t need context. Yes, the whistleblower had a grudge and agenda. But his claims have largely been verified, not refuted.

 

[peatymeanis]

How am I in denial? Please reread my post again carefully. The 11 players apparently corroborated that hazing occurred, but we don't know if their accounts match the whistleblower's. NU needs to release a redacted version of the report. Until then, we're really relying on the whistleblower's account as told to the Daily as the primary source of information. To me, that seems incomplete and potentially misleading.

Lou has literally confirmed the same things my guy. Is he in on the conspiracy too?

 

[NUCat320]

NU should, and will never, release a report. Schill and Gragg have literally never held a press conference.

This is from Schill’s announcement on Monday night.

• The hazing included forced participation, nudity and sexualized acts of a degrading nature, in clear violation of Northwestern policies and values. I am grateful that — to my knowledge — no student suffered physical injury as a result of these behaviors.
• While some student-athletes believed the hazing was in jest and not harmful, others viewed it as causing significant harm with long-term consequences.

To me, the two most important parts of the letter from the ENTIRE FOOTBALL TEAM are:

- By purporting to be from ‘everyone’, it is actually from nobody. We have no idea who signed it, who read it, whether every current player approved it. To my knowledge, it has never been distributed on any individual’s social media. It is totally unsigned, and nobody has publicly stood behind it.
- Like EVERY OTHER DEFENSE, there is no denial. Nobody saying that Running didn’t exist, nobody saying that the Shrek clap is unheard of, nobody saying that there never was a list of targets in the locker room.

And, again, Lou’s initial sourcing is damning as hell, perhaps the single-most concise statement:

One football staff member -- not a player or coach -- corroborated the running of players to WildcatReport. The person, who wished to remain anonymous, also said it would be very surprising if Fitzgerald was not aware of the practice because it was common knowledge within the program.

“It wasn’t a secret,” the source said.

There is no conspiracy.

WildcatReport - Explosive hazing allegations call Fitz, NU administration into question

A detailed report of hazing allegations could mean the end of head coach Pat Fitzgerald's tenure.

northwestern.rivals.com

 

[curdog]

NU should, and will never, release a report. Schill and Gragg have literally never held a press conference.

This is from Schill’s announcement on Monday night.

• The hazing included forced participation, nudity and sexualized acts of a degrading nature, in clear violation of Northwestern policies and values. I am grateful that — to my knowledge — no student suffered physical injury as a result of these behaviors.
• While some student-athletes believed the hazing was in jest and not harmful, others viewed it as causing significant harm with long-term consequences.

To me, the two most important parts of the letter from the ENTIRE FOOTBALL TEAM are:

- By purporting to be from ‘everyone’, it is actually from nobody. We have no idea who signed it, who read it, whether every current player approved it. To my knowledge, it has never been distributed on any individual’s social media. It is totally unsigned, and nobody has publicly stood behind it.
- Like EVERY OTHER DEFENSE, there is no denial. Nobody saying that Running didn’t exist, nobody saying that the Shrek clap is unheard of, nobody saying that there never was a list of targets in the locker room.

And, again, Lou’s initial sourcing is damning as hell, perhaps the single-most concise statement:

One football staff member -- not a player or coach -- corroborated the running of players to WildcatReport. The person, who wished to remain anonymous, also said it would be very surprising if Fitzgerald was not aware of the practice because it was common knowledge within the program.

“It wasn’t a secret,” the source said.

There is no conspiracy.

WildcatReport - Explosive hazing allegations call Fitz, NU administration into question

A detailed report of hazing allegations could mean the end of head coach Pat Fitzgerald's tenure.

northwestern.rivals.com

The report will be released post law suit. It’s a must at this point. If the daily account t matches the report, then Schill has to be fired. His judgment is way way off to read a report of forced nudity etc and then go with a 2 week suspension. The guy may be smart but he is also a clown.

 

[peatymeanis]

The report will be released post law suit. It’s a must at this point. If the daily account t matches the report, then Schill has to be fired. His judgment is way way off to read a report of forced nudity etc and then go with a 2 week suspension. The guy may be smart but he is also a clown.

That’s why the school will settle with Fitz before the report is released. It’s release would be too embarrassing for Schill and also the trustees, who must have had access to the report as they were consulted about the initial decision by Schill.

 

[peatymeanis]

sorry but how does "forced nudity" happen in a locker room?

Meet me at the closest 24hour Fitness and I’ll show you

 

[iubaseball]

Well, in NU's case, it was a group of ambitious journalism students that forced the issue and I guess it says something about Medill that a group of students over summer break were able to bring the university to its knees. I have some... questions about the unbalanced way they presented the story, but at how many other universities would the student newspaper be able to achieve this?

IU with the student newspaper, a couple of anti sports profs and an anti dports president, Myles Brand, who all combined destryed a bball program.

 

[StreamCat]

Meet me at the closest 24hour Fitness and I’ll show you

Man, you are one very tough internet guy.
Why don’t you show Dean Lowry instead?

 

[NU Houston]

Do you think the board of trustees would allow Fitz to be fired if the accounts didn’t match up? Come on people, let’s use our brains. To the point, nobody has actually come out and explicitly said that the weird homoerotic hazing sh*t didn’t happen. That doesn’t need context. Yes, the whistleblower had a grudge and agenda. But his claims have largely been verified, not refuted.

Didn't the BOT also approve the initial two week suspension? The 11 player collaboration was apparently in the report that Schill referenced when firing Fitz. It was a consideration in doling out the two week suspension and then once again in firing Fitz. Got it.

 

[NU Houston]

Lou has literally confirmed the same things my guy. Is he in on the conspiracy too?

No reason to get snarky, my friend. I was trying to be civil and am by no means throwing out conspiracy theories. Lou has also written several other posts and articles (maybe only available on the Rock) with extensive quotes from players and their families supporting Fitz.

 

[NU Houston]

NU should, and will never, release a report. Schill and Gragg have literally never held a press conference.

This is from Schill’s announcement on Monday night.

• The hazing included forced participation, nudity and sexualized acts of a degrading nature, in clear violation of Northwestern policies and values. I am grateful that — to my knowledge — no student suffered physical injury as a result of these behaviors.
• While some student-athletes believed the hazing was in jest and not harmful, others viewed it as causing significant harm with long-term consequences.

To me, the two most important parts of the letter from the ENTIRE FOOTBALL TEAM are:

- By purporting to be from ‘everyone’, it is actually from nobody. We have no idea who signed it, who read it, whether every current player approved it. To my knowledge, it has never been distributed on any individual’s social media. It is totally unsigned, and nobody has publicly stood behind it.
- Like EVERY OTHER DEFENSE, there is no denial. Nobody saying that Running didn’t exist, nobody saying that the Shrek clap is unheard of, nobody saying that there never was a list of targets in the locker room.

And, again, Lou’s initial sourcing is damning as hell, perhaps the single-most concise statement:

One football staff member -- not a player or coach -- corroborated the running of players to WildcatReport. The person, who wished to remain anonymous, also said it would be very surprising if Fitzgerald was not aware of the practice because it was common knowledge within the program.

“It wasn’t a secret,” the source said.

There is no conspiracy.

WildcatReport - Explosive hazing allegations call Fitz, NU administration into question

A detailed report of hazing allegations could mean the end of head coach Pat Fitzgerald's tenure.

northwestern.rivals.com

Who is claiming that there was a conspiracy? The only people using that word are those who are defending the university and the Daily against any criticism.

 

[NUCat320]

Who is claiming that there was a conspiracy? The only people using that word are those who are defending the university and the Daily against any criticism.

Literally nobody has refuted the charges. If anybody had refuted the charges of hazing, or if Lou’s source had said, “it was a pretty well-kept secret among a select group of seniors”, or if the perennially-sitting-on-their-hands NU administration had stood by their original suspension as details came to light, perhaps you could label the whistleblower’s charges to be ‘misleading’.

(Though nobody is *specifically* saying conspiracy. Mea culpa.)


Again, not one person to deny the charges. Only former players and coaches and media folk ‘yeah but’ing as they sing other praises.

It’s a shame that nobody has acknowledged their participation.

 

[NU Houston]

Literally nobody has refuted the charges. If anybody had refuted the charges of hazing, or if Lou’s source had said, “it was a pretty well-kept secret among a select group of seniors”, or if the perennially-sitting-on-their-hands NU administration had stood by their original suspension as details came to light, perhaps you could label the whistleblower’s charges to be ‘misleading’.

(Though nobody is *specifically* saying conspiracy. Mea culpa.)


Again, not one person to deny the charges. Only former players and coaches and media folk ‘yeah but’ing as they sing other praises.

It’s a shame that nobody has acknowledged their participation.

I think most of us agree that something happened here. Call it hazing, fine. The potentially misleading accusations by the whistleblower are the comments that Fitz definitely knew about it and was giving out Shrek signals at practice. The university's own investigation couldn't show that Fitz knew about the hazing, much less directed it with Shrek signals. To me, that's possible embellishment by the whistleblower. The Daily chose to run with it based on the story of the whistleblower and one other person. We have no way to confirm if the other 11 (or 9) players told the investigators that Fitz knew about it and gave out Shrek signals. The Daily could have pushed further to get additional (possibly contradictory) accounts from other players, but they apparently didn't do so. They had the making of a bombshell (but flawed) story, and they ran with it. Same thing with the subsequent "racism" story. These stories blew up in part because the Daily excluded additional information that may have mitigated the impact.

My opinion is that Fitz should have been suspended for 3-4 games, and it should have been announced by Gregg and Schill at a press conference the day they released the report. They botched the process horrendously, which allowed the Daily to publish the whistleblower's allegations in a story that was nowhere near as detailed or thorough as the university's investigation.

 

[curdog]

I think most of us agree that something happened here. Call it hazing, fine. The potentially misleading accusations by the whistleblower are the comments that Fitz definitely knew about it and was giving out Shrek signals at practice. The university's own investigation couldn't show that Fitz knew about the hazing, much less directed it with Shrek signals. To me, that's possible embellishment by the whistleblower. The Daily chose to run with it based on the story of the whistleblower and one other person. We have no way to confirm if the other 11 (or 9) players told the investigators that Fitz knew about it and gave out Shrek signals. The Daily could have pushed further to get additional (possibly contradictory) accounts from other players, but they apparently didn't do so. They had the making of a bombshell (but flawed) story, and they ran with it. Same thing with the subsequent "racism" story. These stories blew up in part because the Daily excluded additional information that may have mitigated the impact.

My opinion is that Fitz should have been suspended for 3-4 games, and it should have been announced by Gregg and Schill at a press conference the day they released the report. They botched the process horrendously, which allowed the Daily to publish the whistleblower's allegations in a story that was nowhere near as detailed or thorough as the university's investigation.

This is exactly right. Something happened, clearly. Whatever it was merited a 2 week suspension until it merited termination. Whistleblower says Fitz knew, the report says there is no evidence he did know.

Release the report (redact names) and clear everything up.

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

Do you think the board of trustees would allow Fitz to be fired if the accounts didn’t match up? Come on people, let’s use our brains. To the point, nobody has actually come out and explicitly said that the weird homoerotic hazing sh*t didn’t happen. That doesn’t need context. Yes, the whistleblower had a grudge and agenda. But his claims have largely been verified, not refuted.

Schill said that the decision was “his and his alone”

 

[NUCat320]

I think most of us agree that something happened here. Call it hazing, fine. The potentially misleading accusations by the whistleblower are the comments that Fitz definitely knew about it and was giving out Shrek signals at practice. The university's own investigation couldn't show that Fitz knew about the hazing, much less directed it with Shrek signals. To me, that's possible embellishment by the whistleblower. The Daily chose to run with it based on the story of the whistleblower and one other person. We have no way to confirm if the other 11 (or 9) players told the investigators that Fitz knew about it and gave out Shrek signals. The Daily could have pushed further to get additional (possibly contradictory) accounts from other players, but they apparently didn't do so. They had the making of a bombshell (but flawed) story, and they ran with it. Same thing with the subsequent "racism" story. These stories blew up in part because the Daily excluded additional information that may have mitigated the impact.

My opinion is that Fitz should have been suspended for 3-4 games, and it should have been announced by Gregg and Schill at a press conference the day they released the report. They botched the process horrendously, which allowed the Daily to publish the whistleblower's allegations in a story that was nowhere near as detailed or thorough as the university's investigation.

We do have Lou’s source saying that running was well-known within the program.

Running is the practice of a group of eight or ten restraining someone, turning off the lights, donning masks, and grinding on the restrained individual, against that individual’s will, in the program’s locker room.

Offered a chance to respond, or deny, or clarify, or refute, the university went all TurtleFitz.

University spokesperson Jon Yates declined to comment on the specific details of the allegations.

“Our first priority is to support and protect our students, including… all student-athletes who had the courage to come forward in this independent investigation. That is why the University immediately opened this investigation upon learning of the allegations and why we took decisive action once we ascertained the facts,” Yates wrote in an email to The Daily. “Out of respect for the privacy of our student-athletes, we will not comment about the findings beyond what we stated in the release and executive summary of the investigation.”



If Fitz had taken any responsibility, if the university had been at all transparent, Fitz still has a job. But Fitz took the same level of responsibility he had taken for the four wins in two seasons. Our culture is strong.

Fitz was the most powerful person in the history of the school. He certainly thought that his history and the backing of Pat Ryan and that lifetime contract made him invincible. And then he was brought down by a noodle-armed backup quarterback. Yeesh.

 

[stpaulcat]

It’s not an achievement. They think it is and that was part of the motivation/problem. They determined from the start that the end/justified the means. All they did was harm the University and temporarily tarnish a good man’s reputation. With time the full picture will come out, the feeding frenzy will abate and the mob’s attention will be focused on another “cause”. My prediction is that Fitz’s reputation will be redeemed.

I believe so also. If only his record as a coach over the past 4 year years could be redeemed. Definitely separate issues, although both relevant. I would like to see Fitz reinstated (which won't happen) until his role (or not) in the hazing scandal is clarified with the hope that his reputation be cleared of malfeasance. But on the other hand, I don't, since NU football was not about to become any better under Fitz--he has proven that he couldn't field an offense and that without Hank, he was lost on defense. The truth is/will out.

 

[phatcat]

Do you think the board of trustees would allow Fitz to be fired if the accounts didn’t match up? Come on people, let’s use our brains. To the point, nobody has actually come out and explicitly said that the weird homoerotic hazing sh*t didn’t happen. That doesn’t need context. Yes, the whistleblower had a grudge and agenda. But his claims have largely been verified, not refuted.

And that's all that matters. Doesn't matter that Venus de Milo spilled the beans. Long term, he did us a favor.

 

[peatymeanis]

Schill said that the decision was “his and his alone”

After he effusively thanked the board for their ‘guidance’ throughout

Just like the hiring of Foster was technically Gragg’s. But it was really string pulled by two boosters.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Who is claiming that there was a conspiracy? The only people using that word are those who are defending the university and the Daily against any criticism.

How can anyone allege conspiracy with so much incompetence on display?

 

[rll1957]

Go back to psu msu osu and the same things happened time after time after time a successful coach leading a successful program with power unchallenged a liberal bureaucracy in charge trying to manage something they never imagined and screw-in it up operating on the premise that everyone is good when the truth is everyone always does what’s best for them at the end of the day

 

[stpaulcat]

Go back to psu msu osu and the same things happened time after time after time a successful coach leading a successful program with power unchallenged a liberal bureaucracy in charge trying to manage something they never imagined and screw-in it up operating on the premise that everyone is good when the truth is everyone always does what’s best for them at the end of the day

Huh?

 

[stpaulcat]

How can anyone allege conspiracy with so much incompetence on display?

Not conspiracy, "Keystone Cops."