Refs

[UpsetAlert]

I’m usually admittedly not easy on refs, but this season was atrocious. We don’t have the margin of error as bigger name programs, so errors and inconsistencies matter so much more. Butler, Iowa, Penn State, Michigan, and now UCLA. The non-foul and unbelievable “flagrant” that no one ever calls are the icing on the cake this year.

My family (who are not super deep fans) have asked me if there is going to be an investigation by the league... Honestly, I don’t know what to tell them, and it feels we need to beat by 7 in order to take the refs out of it. Sucks.

 

[lunker35]

I’m usually admittedly not easy on refs, but this season was atrocious. We don’t have the margin of error as bigger name programs, so errors and inconsistencies matter so much more. Butler, Iowa, Penn State, Michigan, and now UCLA. The non-foul and unbelievable “flagrant” that no one ever calls are the icing on the cake this year.

My family (who are not super deep fans) have asked me if there is going to be an investigation by the league... Honestly, I don’t know what to tell them, and it feels we need to beat by 7 in order to take the refs out of it. Sucks.

It’s beyond believable what’s happened to us this year. Hollywood could make a movie and nobody would believe it. Pure trash from the zebras game after game after game. Between high knees, Lurch, and the bald cave troll they take every game away from us. Sickens me.

 

[NJcatsfan]

Butler, PSU, Michigan, UCLA. Which one was worst? Losing close with the refs screwing us on huge calls was a season theme. Between this and the injuries, just insurmountable headwinds. Proud of the guys. Beyond annoyed with the fate of this team/season.

 

[UpsetAlert]

Butler, PSU, Michigan, UCLA. Which one was worst? Losing close with the refs screwing us on huge calls was a season theme. Between this and the injuries, just insurmountable headwinds. Proud of the guys. Beyond annoyed with the fate of this team/season.

We forgot Washington. Any other season that would stand out. So crazy.

 

[Davidgolds5]

We forgot Washington. Any other season that would stand out. So crazy.

Was at the game and had to watch some of the calls when I got home. These guys are absolutely clowns.
KJ did not touch the ball on the out of bounds play. It was clear. So the refs missed missed a foul on KJ, then they messed up a review. Love how bardo was saying that it was obvious that nu would get the ball, even complimenting the camera crew for the great angle. And after the ball went to ucla, bardo has nothing to say. He was stunned.

Nick got hammered. Missed call.

Berry fouled the guy right after the missed call on Nick and they didn’t call it.

Ball game. How does the big ten continue to have this trash? It’s brutal to be a fan when the refs are the story of 1/3rd of the game. To miss a call like that especially at home, is horrendous. UCLA was pissing their pants at the end of the game, there was a kid on the Jumbotron that was pumping uo the crowd, I think we had them in an OT.

 

[Cat-Court-Jester]

Butler, PSU, Michigan, UCLA. Which one was worst? Losing close with the refs screwing us on huge calls was a season theme. Between this and the injuries, just insurmountable headwinds. Proud of the guys. Beyond annoyed with the fate of this team/season.

Penn State was like something I’ve never seen. But the sad thing is… this level of horrendous officiating repeatedly against NU, is something that is now becoming common, year-in, year-out.

I think it comes down to incentives: there simply are no consequences for B10 refs routinely screwing NU. Media ignores it, there’s not a huge social media firestorm. And Collins and our Athletics Department… they do nothing to call out Big Ten officials. Avoid the fines, play nice, hope the situation magically goes away. No consequences. Happens again and again. For the fans, it’s beyond frustrating, and so many simply move on and stop investing time into a program that won’t stick up for itself. For casual fans there’s not much incentive to watch, when you know the refs are going to screw your team — every marginal call going against you. And even the obvious calls, where your average middle school-level ref would get it right.

And yet no consequences. Think the AD will come out with a statement that NU is lodging a complaint with the B10? Nope, they never do.

 

[Davidgolds5]

Other than Hummel, none of the announcers call out the refs. Presumably they are told not to do so, just like the coaches. Even Bardo said they missed the call at the end. Which means it was extra egregious.
I recall Cronin going off on the refs earlier in the year. It’s weird that Collins doesn’t do that.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Other than Hummel, none of the announcers call out the refs. Presumably they are told not to do so, just like the coaches. Even Bardo said they missed the call at the end. Which means it was extra egregious.
I recall Cronin going off on the refs earlier in the year. It’s weird that Collins doesn’t do that.

I wanted Collins to get tossed while Nick was shooting meaningless free throws to end the game. It was extremely disappointing to watch the refs take the game out of the hands of the players.

 

[Sec.112]

a) Also a consideration tonight ... the line was 3.5.

b) I hate to go down the road about refs. I really do. But this has happened too often.

Frankly, I wonder if Collins has a reputation that hit it's height with the Purdue ejection.

I'm sure it's just me, but I swear things have never been the same since that sideshow.

 

[Davidgolds5]

a) Also a consideration tonight ... the line was 3.5.

b) I hate to go down the road about refs. I really do. But this has happened too often.

Frankly, I wonder if Collins has a reputation that hit it's height with the Purdue ejection.

I'm sure it's just me, but I swear things have never been the same since that sideshow.

Just tired of seeing these refs at these games. I was a little relieved to not see High Knees there, but these guys were brutal too.

 

[Secho99]

I get the frustration, but there were so many loose balls and rebounds we didn’t come up with, and they dominated us from the 14:30 mark when we were up 44-43 to the 3:00 mark when we’re down 68-54. It was a great comeback effort, but when you get down like that you leave too much to the things you can’t control.

 

[UpsetAlert]

I get the frustration, but there were so many loose balls and rebounds we didn’t come up with, and they dominated us from the 14:30 mark when we were up 44-43 to the 3:00 mark when we’re down 68-54. It was a great comeback effort, but when you get down like that you leave too much to the things you can’t control.

Again, this is an outdated view of basketball. You’re welcome to it, but it willfully neglects inflection points that impacted the game.

They got more rebounds?! They scored more points too. Could we have played better? Of course! It’s sports! You can argue a million reasons why we lost, but you can’t ignore the outsized impact of referring here.

The point is that Northwestern consistently either a) doesn’t get the calls at the most important moments of the game or b) gets completely jobbed (or both). We have to be 7 points better than the other team to have a chance. That’s not a winning recipe and I don’t know what Collins, the AD, etc. can do about it.

 

[TheC]

"I like my paycheck and I want to be able to coach on Saturday. And if I say something, I won't be judged like other guys."

This is what CCC said in his post-game presser when asked about the officiating. I wonder if he's been given a warning from the league in the past or if he just thinks the anti-NU bias extends to him. He clearly seems like someone who is trying hard to bite his tongue.

 

[SDakaGordie]

I wanted Collins to get tossed while Nick was shooting meaningless free throws to end the game. It was extremely disappointing to watch the refs take the game out of the hands of the players.

On Senior night? Glad Collins took a higher road.

 

[GatoLouco]

Penn State was like something I’ve never seen. But the sad thing is… this level of horrendous officiating repeatedly against NU, is something that is now becoming common, year-in, year-out.

I think it comes down to incentives: there simply are no consequences for B10 refs routinely screwing NU. Media ignores it, there’s not a huge social media firestorm. And Collins and our Athletics Department… they do nothing to call out Big Ten officials. Avoid the fines, play nice, hope the situation magically goes away. No consequences. Happens again and again. For the fans, it’s beyond frustrating, and so many simply move on and stop investing time into a program that won’t stick up for itself. For casual fans there’s not much incentive to watch, when you know the refs are going to screw your team — every marginal call going against you. And even the obvious calls, where your average middle school-level ref would get it right.

And yet no consequences. Think the AD will come out with a statement that NU is lodging a complaint with the B10? Nope, they never do.

I did not think the game was poorly officiated for 39 minutes. I mean it was not great, but it was not terrible. The problem is that errors at the end are very tough to swallow.

I have preached several times here we can't blame a one point loss on a call with, let's say, 15 minutes to go in the game. But a missed all with 10 seconds to go? Absolutely we can. Who knows, Martinelli is not a great free throw shooter, could miss both. Could make both and UCLA still wins it in regulation or overtime. Could miss one and we lose, could miss one and get an offensive rebound. So many possibilities. Point being, we deserved to see it play out!

I think @Cat-Court-Jester has the right idea. It's not deliberate, it's incentives playing a role. It's easy to benefit the side you know you will get blowback if you hurt them.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

On Senior night? Glad Collins took a higher road.

Absolutely.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Watching the game live it sure looked to me like UCLA was being ultra aggressive defensively and extremely physical on both ends of the floor. You can say the refs were letting them play, but UCLA did a lot of slapping and raking and bumping - and we didn't, not by comparison. I don't watch UCLA enough to know if thats how they always play or if Cronin told them to get after it... I know they're the best-rated defensive team in the conference - I suspect they always play that way and the refs allow it.

 

[Davidgolds5]

Watching the game live it sure looked to me like UCLA was being ultra aggressive defensively and extremely physical on both ends of the floor. You can say the refs were letting them play, but UCLA did a lot of slapping and raking and bumping - and we didn't, not by comparison. I don't watch UCLA enough to know if thats how they always play or if Cronin told them to get after it... I know they're the best-rated defensive team in the conference - I suspect they always play that way and the refs allow it.

How do they mess up blatant reviews? It was clear kj did not touch the ball that went out of bounds. Everyone saw it. How can they mess that up, it’s a slow mo review!

 

[macarthur31]

Watching the game live it sure looked to me like UCLA was being ultra aggressive defensively and extremely physical on both ends of the floor. You can say the refs were letting them play, but UCLA did a lot of slapping and raking and bumping - and we didn't, not by comparison. I don't watch UCLA enough to know if thats how they always play or if Cronin told them to get after it... I know they're the best-rated defensive team in the conference - I suspect they always play that way and the refs allow it.

My friend who is both a fellow NU '96er, and grew up in the shadow of Pauley Pavilion took me last night - and so he was my scout for the Bruins. He would confirm your notion that the Bruins play hard nosed all the time, and live with the calls.

I noticed that Bilodeau got his 3rd foul last night by reaching in on Ty (I think?) who was taking the ball up in transition. I'm likely remembering it wrong, but I remarked to my friend, "Why is he doing that? He's like 50 feet away from the basket." My friend confirmed, that may have been overeagerness on Bilodeau, but that may also be indicative of the overall mindset the Bruins have on defense which is Cronin's directive - always be in their effing face.

In turn, I remarked that Mara is really good - how is he not getting more minutes? My pal confirmed that Mara isn't as good defensively yet, and that's top priority for Cronin. I conceded the point, but I also understand if my 7'3" guy struggles with a hard hedge 25 feet away from the hoop.

 

[Davidgolds5]

My friend who is both a fellow NU '96er, and grew up in the shadow of Pauley Pavilion took me last night - and so he was my scout for the Bruins. He would confirm your notion that the Bruins play hard nosed all the time, and live with the calls.

I noticed that Bilodeau got his 3rd foul last night by reaching in on Ty (I think?) who was taking the ball up in transition. I'm likely remembering it wrong, but I remarked to my friend, "Why is he doing that? He's like 50 feet away from the basket." My friend confirmed, that may have been overeagerness on Bilodeau, but that may also be indicative of the overall mindset the Bruins have on defense which is Cronin's directive - always be in their effing face.

In turn, I remarked that Mara is really good - how is he not getting more minutes? My pal confirmed that Mara isn't as good defensively yet, and that's top priority for Cronin. I conceded the point, but I also understand if my 7'3" guy struggles with a hard hedge 25 feet away from the hoop.

Cronin said after the game that Mara gets too tired and has to come out for that reason.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

How do they mess up blatant reviews? It was clear kj did not touch the ball that went out of bounds. Everyone saw it. How can they mess that up, it’s a slow mo review!

I was at the game so I didn't see the replay, but my understanding is that Windham grabbed or slapped the guys wrist, then the UCLA guy deflected the ball out of bounds. I'm going to guess that the refs gave the ball to UCLA because they had missed the foul on Windham.

Not how its supposed to work. We seem to end up on the wrong end of that sort of thing all the time.

 

[loyolacat]

Couple reactions.
1. Gambling/Spread...there is a current investigation into several gambling issues in college bball. SI did an article recently. Seems like players from less wealthy programs are targeted as they get no NIL money while they watch big program guys get the cash. Have to wonder if refs are not as easily targeted.
2. Athleticism/Physicality...I had my officials patch for years...never got above freshman high school and stopped when I had kids but..even with a bunch of slow kids it is tough to determine contact. I was taught (my mentor did several IHSA state finals) that you could not determine contact so judged the action on who had correct position (where they stationary, what space did they own?, vertically and horizontally and who violated whose space) If there was possible contact created by someone leaving a space it was a foul..Too hard to determine contact when a college player swipes at a ball. Now and I would say instant replay has actually got them trying to do something they cannot. The result is that the game has continued to get more and more physical with more and more plays that could be a foul and officials are actually trying to judge if it is or not. I always start the basketball season watching the Loyola 63 Championship game. It is amazing how the game has changed, specifically players are faster, overall taller and way more physical. They have tried to reign it in with emphasizing no hand guarding , the restricted area etc. but they have got to get to a clearer point where officials can easily determine that was a foul or that was not a foul..Take this example. my job on the court to watch the ball,,,defensive player reaches across to try and steal a ball from a player dribbling with their right hand. I am looking for contact...the defender does not make contact with his hand...no foul...but his momentum causes him to make some contact with his right side, offensive player loses control of the ball...ref does not see it , he was focused on the hand swipe contact...and then to really mess this up , another official across the court sees the body contact and calls a foul on the defensive player...now the fans go crazy saying " hey the official right there didnt call anything..you are a hundred miles away!" Lets even make it more complicated..The offensive player has used their left arm to push the defensive player and interrupt his attempt to make the steal.
Bottom line...1. You have to make the rules so that the game can be officiated.2. You have to provide the officials with really proper training, evaluation and consequences. 3. If fans do not believe in the legitimacy of the game.. you have jumped the shark and those poor gambling companies, tv moguls and people dependent on watching sports will be in trouble.

 

[macarthur31]

I did not think the game was poorly officiated for 39 minutes. I mean it was not great, but it was not terrible. The problem is that errors at the end are very tough to swallow.

I have preached several times here we can't blame a one point loss on a call with, let's say, 15 minutes to go in the game. But a missed all with 10 seconds to go? Absolutely we can. Who knows, Martinelli is not a great free throw shooter, could miss both. Could make both and UCLA still wins it in regulation or overtime. Could miss one and we lose, could miss one and get an offensive rebound. So many possibilities. Point being, we deserved to see it play out!

I think @Cat-Court-Jester has the right idea. It's not deliberate, it's incentives playing a role. It's easy to benefit the side you know you will get blowback if you hurt them.

I totally get that reffing is very tough - especially now given the speed and power in the game. That being said, I'm trying to wrap my head around how the Cats got 10 FTA in the 1st half, which seemed right given UCLA's inherent lean towards aggressiveness on defense; yet we get only 4 in the second half, and the 'Cats stayed the course with committing to touching paint on their possessions. Maybe UCLA got better at executing their physical defense with precision in the 2nd half? Perhaps?

I do think its possible that the refs "moved the slider" on the game to allow more physicality - but perhaps that's a by product of the refs adapting to UCLA's tone rather then them maintaining the one established in the first half.

 

[Davidgolds5]

I was at the game so I didn't see the replay, but my understanding is that Windham grabbed or slapped the guys wrist, then the UCLA guy deflected the ball out of bounds. I'm going to guess that the refs gave the ball to UCLA because they had missed the foul on Windham.

Not how its supposed to work. We seem to end up on the wrong end of that sort of thing all the time.

Did they not learn that “two wrongs don’t make a right?”

 

[eastbaycat99]

Watching the game live it sure looked to me like UCLA was being ultra aggressive defensively and extremely physical on both ends of the floor. You can say the refs were letting them play, but UCLA did a lot of slapping and raking and bumping - and we didn't, not by comparison. I don't watch UCLA enough to know if thats how they always play or if Cronin told them to get after it... I know they're the best-rated defensive team in the conference - I suspect they always play that way and the refs allow it.

I thought the refs pretty much went with the flow of the game. In the first half, the Cats moved the ball well and the refs whistled contact on the Bruins. I think they only called 4 on NU but the Cats got to double bonus. In the second half, the Cats were stagnant, and the refs did not perceive the UCLA hacking as giving NU an advantage, and the calls swung the other way.
The thing I’m surprised no one has commented on is that the game swung in UCLA’s direction when Bilodeau got his 3rd foul and was replaced by Mara. I thought the Cats had a good game plan that assumed Bilodeau’s presence. They really couldn’t figure out Mara on either end of the floor. I remember thinking that when Bilodeau got whistled that the Cats would take over. The opposite happened. NU completely stalled at that point, and coincidentally, all the whistles started going UCLA’s way.

 

[Catdude]

I was at the game so I didn't see the replay, but my understanding is that Windham grabbed or slapped the guys wrist, then the UCLA guy deflected the ball out of bounds. I'm going to guess that the refs gave the ball to UCLA because they had missed the foul on Windham.

Not how its supposed to work. We seem to end up on the wrong end of that sort of thing all the time.

The frustrating part is that we did not get that benefit in the Penn St game and the exact opposite happened and we got punished for the refs' bad call. I'm not sure what's more egregious, though: missing a call from replay or the extremely blatant foul on Martinelli in real time. In our game at Iowa, I remember the refs calling fouls on us four possessions in a row at the end of the game for negligible contact.

 

[TheC]

I was at the game so I didn't see the replay, but my understanding is that Windham grabbed or slapped the guys wrist, then the UCLA guy deflected the ball out of bounds. I'm going to guess that the refs gave the ball to UCLA because they had missed the foul on Windham.

Not how its supposed to work. We seem to end up on the wrong end of that sort of thing all the time.

I always heard that when trying to block a shot, the hand is part of the ball. If that also applies to going for a steal, then you can argue that KJ hit the UCLA player's hand, which is part of the ball, sending the ball out of bounds. I didn't have a problem with that call. The foul on Nick at the end and the fact that their 7'3" center hopped, shuffled and slid his way around the lane, however, bothered me immensely.

 

[Davidgolds5]

I always heard that when trying to block a shot, the hand is part of the ball. If that also applies to going for a steal, then you can argue that KJ hit the UCLA player's hand, which is part of the ball, sending the ball out of bounds. I didn't have a problem with that call. The foul on Nick at the end and the fact that their 7'3" center hopped, shuffled and slid his way around the lane, however, bothered me immensely.

Hand is part of the ball has zero to do with a ball that goes out of bounds.

 

[2388bb]

How do they mess up blatant reviews? It was clear kj did not touch the ball that went out of bounds. Everyone saw it. How can they mess that up, it’s a slow mo review!

I believe it's called gambling.

 

[TheC]

Hand is part of the ball has zero to do with a ball that goes out of bounds.

Why not?

 

[Davidgolds5]

Why not?

Ha. That is just not a thing. That is related to a foul, not an out of bounds play.

 

[TheC]

Hand is part of the ball has zero to do with a ball that goes out of bounds.

Let me just add, that I really hate the instant replay reversal on some of these out of bounds plays. It you are trying to determine who actually hit the ball out, that is fine. If you find that the ball was knocked off another body part and out of bounds, fine. But those reversals where a Player B knocks the ball out of Player A's hand, but on super slow-mo, we can see the ball brushed the finger tips of that same hand on Player A as it was getting knocked out is stupid and should not lead to a reversal in my opinion. This play was not exactly that, but awfully similar. It's either a foul on KJ or the ball is part of the hand and KJ forced the ball out with his contact on the hand.

Not that my opinion matters at all, but just felt the need to say it.

 

[TheC]

Ha. That is just not a thing. That is related to a foul, not an out of bounds play.

But the principle is the same. The hand is part of the ball. Ergo, KJ hit the ball, causing it to go out of bounds.

Not as debatable perhaps: If you catch a pass and then hop on one foot after you establish possession, that is travelling.

 

[Davidgolds5]

Let me just add, that I really hate the instant replay reversal on some of these out of bounds plays. It you are trying to determine who actually hit the ball out, that is fine. If you find that the ball was knocked off another body part and out of bounds, fine. But those reversals where a Player B knocks the ball out of Player A's hand, but on super slow-mo, we can see the ball brushed the finger tips of that same hand on Player A as it was getting knocked out is stupid and should not lead to a reversal in my opinion. This play was not exactly that, but awfully similar. It's either a foul on KJ or the ball is part of the hand and KJ forced the ball out with his contact on the hand.

Not that my opinion matters at all, but just felt the need to say it.

Prob a foul on kJ that was missed. Or no call.

The reviews have become part of the game probably for the worse. If you’re going to review a play, at least do it correctly. They did not.

 

[TheC]

Prob a foul on kJ that was missed. Or no call.

The reviews have become part of the game probably for the worse. If you’re going to review a play, at least do it correctly. They did not.

I do not think you should review every play where no foul was called to see if there was contact. That would be insane. However, if you stop the action to review an out of bounds situation and then you can see a clear foul that caused the ball to go out of bounds, that should now be enforceable. Seems like an easy and obvious change to make to the replay reviews.

 

[lunker35]

I thought the refs pretty much went with the flow of the game. In the first half, the Cats moved the ball well and the refs whistled contact on the Bruins. I think they only called 4 on NU but the Cats got to double bonus. In the second half, the Cats were stagnant, and the refs did not perceive the UCLA hacking as giving NU an advantage, and the calls swung the other way.
The thing I’m surprised no one has commented on is that the game swung in UCLA’s direction when Bilodeau got his 3rd foul and was replaced by Mara. I thought the Cats had a good game plan that assumed Bilodeau’s presence. They really couldn’t figure out Mara on either end of the floor. I remember thinking that when Bilodeau got whistled that the Cats would take over. The opposite happened. NU completely stalled at that point, and coincidentally, all the whistles started going UCLA’s way.

They did for the first 6 minutes of the second half where UCLA got 6 fouls. Then they didn’t call another foul for 11 minutes on UCLA.

 

[Davidgolds5]

I do not think you should review every play where no foul was called to see if there was contact. That would be insane. However, if you stop the action to review an out of bounds situation and then you can see a clear foul that caused the ball to go out of bounds, that should now be enforceable. Seems like an easy and obvious change to make to the replay reviews.

Giving the refs more opportunities to make decisions is definitely not the answer

 

[eastbaycat99]

They did for the first 6 minutes of the second half where UCLA got 6 fouls. Then they didn’t call another foul for 11 minutes on UCLA.

They called 6 on the Bruins, the last of which, I think, sent Bilodeau to the bench for Mara. Where Bilodeau was trailing Nicholson, opening space, the Cats had motion and were getting calls. Mara pretty much played a zone in the lane, and the Cats went stagnant, hence no calls. I’m not saying there weren’t hacks, just that the refs throughout the game till the last 10 seconds rewarded the more aggressive team.

 

[EagerFan]

Nick continued to get hacked in the lane all during that last ten minutes. The refs just swallowed their whistles for the blue side.

 

[TheC]

Giving the refs more opportunities to make decisions is definitely not the answer

If you're gonna' stop it already, then get it right. If the ball is clearly off Player A on replay, but it went out of bounds because Player B shoved him in the back, then get the call right. It's A's ball!