And I’m pretty sure addresses the role of him and his coaching staff in every recruit living room. Or do you think PF says something like ‘hope he’s man enough to protect himself cuz I run a hands off program’
Reinstate Fitz
- Thread starter villox
- Start date
I don’t Twitter. From what I’ve read, sounds like he is coming to PF defense. But I’ve read a lot of people including some posters here that acknowledge runnings and car washes happened.
I don’t know any more than the next guy but I surmise that folks around the program made PF to be an egomaniac and he left too much on loyalty - to staff and players.
Hazing probably had blips of bad actors acting outside the scope of reasonable behaviors just like he left terrible coaches on the sidelines.
PF was enabled by many around him who now must scramble to defend the monster they created. The buck stops w PF himself - just like the losing. But he, and the enablers, always deflected that final responsibility falling back on cleanest program in America. Well - guess not
I’m glad PF is gone not glad about the controversy and the ramifications to the program. The enablers did this to him - created a too big to fail ego from a guy who started as a ground roots start up. No accountability - none - anywhere in or around the program. Lots of fingers, zero accountability. Zero.
I don’t have a Twitter account. Send it to me and I’ll read it. Now let me ask you - do you believe the runnings and car washes happened? Do find a circumstance in which it was acceptable?
Read it now on other thread. I can agree PF had a system. That doesn’t absolve him. Buck stops with him - supposedly. Just like the losses - but we know where that led - embrace the suck.
He was supposed to be the adult in the room. Whatever systems he used ultimately failed for some kids. Got a reasonable of number of kids he can fail and we will still call it the cleanest program in American and forget about the concept of accountability?
I don't know what happened, and I don't consider bullying acceptable. But I'm sure Loretta Lynch will get to the bottom of it.
We can't recruit a good QB? In just the past few years we had Peyton Ramsey transfer in and take us to a Big Ten Championship game in 2020 (with 9 kids from that team going on the NFL, many undrafted but two were drafted in the first round). In 2018 Clayton Thorson took us to our first Championship Game after throwing or running for 26 TDs and 3200 yards. We got a dud in the Clemson kid Hunter Johnson, but if you say Fitz whiffed, then admit so did Dabo Swinney and all the big time recruiting "experts" who said he was a "five star".
Just last week we lost our QB recruit to a coach and team that knows a little bit about offense and QBs. If this QB was so terrible (in other words, if Fitz as you say "can't recruit a QB" this guy would not have found a nice landing spot) at one of the top programs in college football. And one that is very passing and offense friendly.
Oh, they did claim to know the whole nature of the orders they carried out…ok
Never had to get to the next level, Had to be respectable and stable and they destroyed both of those. Hard to see a path from here And they won't get out of the contract,.
This is the element that I think ultimately costs Schill his job. He’s caused a LOT of unnecessary expenses with his horrid mismanagement.
Two years would not be enough, not even close unless he changed his offensive philosophy. He doesn't have the hogs up front or the backs to really compete running a ball control offense. He needed to show some innovation on offense to get higher caliber QBs and WRs and to diversify the offense as to help the running game. I mean seriously, our post Thorson quarterbacks have sucked for the most part. Even Ramsey was really just an efficient game manager, not great, but good enough to beat teams not named Ohio State in a whack season.
In summary, there appear to be a few irrefutable facts / arguments that preclude even a snowballs chance of a PF return (irrefutable as the only response are always personal attack or diversionary non-responses — and these aren’t going away no matter how much diversion):
1. Who is ultimately responsible for the FB team? In a major failure, in the absence of a guilty party, who’s accountable for failures within this program?
2. What is the current justification to keep PF at $5MM/season? Following series of reasons to send him packing, default response was cleanest program in the country. That’s gone. What is now the reason to pay him $5MM and keep in that role?
3. If it’s sooooo commonplace - then why are we waiting still for a second college FB to be exposed? Lack of prima Donna athletes? Lack of players pissed about their PT? Even at D2 or JC - where is the ‘next’ program to fall?
There are other more debatable components - but these cause anger, hate, diversion from the Enablers because there simply is now way to refute on the merits.
1. Who is ultimately responsible for the FB team? In a major failure, in the absence of a guilty party, who’s accountable for failures within this program?
2. What is the current justification to keep PF at $5MM/season? Following series of reasons to send him packing, default response was cleanest program in the country. That’s gone. What is now the reason to pay him $5MM and keep in that role?
3. If it’s sooooo commonplace - then why are we waiting still for a second college FB to be exposed? Lack of prima Donna athletes? Lack of players pissed about their PT? Even at D2 or JC - where is the ‘next’ program to fall?
There are other more debatable components - but these cause anger, hate, diversion from the Enablers because there simply is now way to refute on the merits.
Because NU will probably be paying him that anyway from his lawsuit.
Zurbrugg did the right thing by going to Oklahoma. His talent would have been wasted at NU. You have an offensive philosophy that was centered around a ball control offense, add to that some mid tier 3 star recruits in terms of skilled players and that won't get you very far. Get an attractive pass oriented offensive scheme, great assistants that are all onboard with the HC's scheme, and the rest should follow.
Maybe. Maybe not. Schools payoff contracts all the time. Maybe they will hear. Maybe they won’t.
But what’s the argument to keep him? Money? That’s it? Ok. I can live with that argument for why he should have been kept and still agree w his departure.
If Fitz kept delivering 1-win seasons then more and more people would have wanted him gone. The "value" Fitz brought over his entire tenure includes 10 bowl games, 2 division championships, and 5 seasons of at least 9 wins. Fitz had to replace a legend when Hank retired and hiring JON was a big miss, but in light of Fitz's entire tenure I would be inclined to give him a chance to turn it around. I really like what I've seen from Braun so far; if Braun ends up being a success, Fitz should get credit for the hire just as he gets blame for JON.
I think that’s where the majority were before the hazing scandal. So who’s ultimately responsible for the FB team?
And PF has been well paid for those accomplishments already. So how long does he get to turn it around? Did you honestly believe this year was lining up for much success? That would have made four of the last five seasons of far below mediocracy and then a hazing scandal to boot - if he had not been fired.
If Fitz had won 10 games last season, would you want him fired now? You sure seem fixated on the "value" he brings if the "for cause" firing were on principle.
Fitzgerald recruited the following QBs out of high school over the past 6 years - Andrew Marty, Jason Whitaker, Cole Freeman, Carl Richardson, Brendan Sullivan and Jack Lausch. Would you call this group a strong collection of QBs? Would anyone characterize the group as average? I think the total number of power 5 school offers for the 6 individuals I listed might be 3 offers. His latest HS QB recruit, Jack Lausch had only one other offer, from Indiana State. That's poor HS recruiting over a 6 year period. Fitzgerald has always subscribed to the philosophy that a good offense starts and ends at the running back position. Jag88 has also made this same point in numerous posts.
I think the reality is that it would have played out differently. Off a 10 win season, new president probably has a lot more pressure on him.
As it was, historic coach that was getting worse and worse, had snarky public attitude and some fans were in fact questioning the school for the contract in light of recent performance.
If PF was even the nice guy, fun in media, maybe does things to appeal to (instead of alienate) the fan base, he might still captain of a sinking ship.
Fact is - he has put up terrible product, treats fans and media like necessary evil and made some really bad asst coaching calls - and lost his clean program security blanket. So he is now and will forever be unemployed at NU.
PF had a hundred ways to save his job…for awhile…even up to the time he met w schill. He banked on his power and it simply reached its limit.
Shocker for Enablers - he is not a demigod, he is a human. A flawed one like most of us.
But you didn't answer my question.
My question was:
If Fitz had won 10 games last season, would you want him fired now?
Impossible to say for sure, but I think so. I would probably allow for time to fully investigate but if the allegations proved true, then yes. At the end of the day, he was the CEO and when there is a major failure, you shake up the tree - otherwise you are arguably complicit.
And keep in mind, I admit that there were many factors under PFs control that probably would have him still employed today to some degree - starting w contrition, humbleness, who knows.
PF did nothing to save himself as he arrogantly counted on his power.
Let’s see how Braun does. Maybe we don’t want to reinstate Fitz. Maybe we should fire Gregg and make Fitz the AD though.
Don't forget the loss of donations that will follow. My guess is that the cost of his mismanagement will exceed $1B. This is what will force them to get rid of him. Can't cost the school that much and survive
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I said this a month ago.
1b over ten years in lost fund raising and athletic dept revenue.
Throw in 100m in legal costs
I see you are using a new word for people who don't like what happened to Pat Fitzgerald - "Enablers."
Every time I read it, it makes me smirk... because it is so dumb.
But what could it possibly mean?
Enabling Fitzgerald to do what exactly?
Sue the university for wrongful termination?
I was (and remain) proud of the football program Fitzgerald ran at NU. I will not smear many hundreds of former student athletes simply because a handful of guys were unhappy about how their teammates treated them and didn't speak up.
Unless there is more to the story, but some of the stuff in the existing legal complaints is pathetic, so if thats all there is... its a gross overreaction by an inept administrator to a fixable problem in an area where said administrator is admittedly clueless (collegiate athletics).
I believe that a host of people created the current version of PF by allowing him free rein, endless cover, zero accountability to the point that he believed he was unfirable. In doing so, these people also destroyed his legacy.
I contend these people include higher ups like Ryan, Phillips and so forth and continue all the way down to fans on this very board.
Just reading some of the insane defense and counter attacks around here illustrate my point. How many head coaches would be employed after the performances over the last four years? How many would be allowed to retain such bad assistant coaches? Treat the media as we saw until PF ran them all off? Snub their nose at the fan base time and again?
If another D1 program is found to have a hazing problem as NU is accused, does anyone think the HC will not be fired?
The Enablers are my moniker for folks that blindly defend PF in all cases, regardless of rationality.
Because he brought in multiple times that in donations every year. NU is still going to pay millions for the next HC but hard to see that person bringing in much for years. And NU will still be paying Fitz
I haven't seen anything like that on this board. Maybe on The Rock that stuff happens, but, as I understand it, you (and I) are not subscribers...
Everybody is aware that the team has been bad in 3 of the last 4 years. Most people blame Fitz or an assistant for that. Hankwitz' departure and the subsequent collapse of the defense surprised me and "exposed" Fitzgerald significantly. No doubt it had reached "put up or shut up" time with the hire of a new DC, but I expected significant reversal of recent form.
I still view(ed) Fitzgerald as one of Northwestern's greatest assets - as the face of the school and manager of the football program. It has become apparent that Fitzgerald needs strong assistants on both sides of the ball.
But NU did sign him to a contract that it is obligated to live up to.
Much of the outrage is about how badly NU treated him - with the additional component that a lot of people here really like the guy. The fact that Schill knows zero about sports, team dynamics or Northwestern makes it all the more maddening.
Let’s say NU treated him poorly at the end - if they, and everyone else, hadn’t treated him like royalty for the years before that, maybe he would not have grown such an ego. Maybe many other things would not have turned out the way they did.
But cannot undo the past nor predict how they impact life - still feel it has been a factor.
As for seeing it - over the past few bad seasons - when folks start clamoring, or even suggesting, changes - be it forcing new assistants or removing PF, there have always been a vocal group to staunchly stand behind PF and his choices.
When this whole scandal unfolded, we have seen that same group aggressively attack the victims. And some of the defenses have been pretty hard to digest.
Many have been able to have rational, albeit in disagreement, discussions. But if you don’t see the Enablers around here, you must be avoiding certain posters.
The vast majority of donations came from the Ryans. And it looks like they want to keep donating regardless.
I think people generally have different views on what constitutes "abuse" and what constitutes "team building" or "punishment." For the most part people are pretty reasonable. On the other hand I think it is preposterous that some people use terms like "sexual assault" to describe what seems to have happened in the NU locker room.
A lot of this depends on the individual. Are you a parent? If not, you don't know how significantly that changes your understanding of the world. It cannot be overstated. On the other hand, f you are a parent, what type of parent? Pushover? Disciplinarian? Are your kids hellraisers? Stressed out? Hardworking? Weasels? What works? What doesn't? Every parent who has raised kids knows that there are a lot of parents who suck and pre-dispose their kids to sucking as adults. You realize that nothing is black and white when it comes to ethics.
A guy like Schill, who has no kids, no spouse and possibly has never had a serious relationship with anyone... never played a sport of any kind, has no idea what sort of dynamics occur within teams, has never committed to teammates or expected someone to have his back, doesn't know or understand the commitment that winning requires - he literally scores a zero on all of that stuff. Is he qualified to assess Pat Fitzgerald's tenure as head coach? No way in hell.
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