Saddiq Bey released from NC State.

[DaCat]

If we're going to use Loyola as the example you better start showing me some consistently multi-dimensional NU players - guys who can shoot, get to the basket AND play defense. Falzon ... really? That's the first time I've ever heard slow feet as an advantage.

Among the many reasons I need some size is because the positionless small players AT NU(!!!) so many of you are relying are single dimensional players.

Again, I agree. Get the outside shooting and we're not having this discussion.

Hopefully, Kopp shoots like Custer and Nance has an outside game to go with his shot like Townes. That would go a long way toward shutting me up and making up for the lack of size. That's my hope. In the meantime, I'm not sure those scorers exist from last year's team not to mention anybody comparable to the pretty good versatility on Loyola beyond Custer, Townes, etc.

So yes, I'm looking for some better defense.

Ryan Taylor will make a significant difference on offense.

Kopp is unproven at the B1G level but appears to be a player who can make an instant impact.

Lathon has big shoes to fill but hope he can reward Collins' faith in him from Day 1.

I'm looking forward to watching Nance develop.

Turner is the other somewhat unknown factor but I think we'll be happy with him.

The rest of the team we pretty much know what we got.

 

[Sec.112]

It's not height its functional ability. Draymond Green is 6'7" he plays a bunch of Center ... Law can play stretch 4 IMO against 80% of the matchups we will see in conference, maybe more. Turner can guard the 4 in most situations too..

Once again, I don't disagree with a lot of what you say.

Now, where is that functional player?

I agree Law can play with 80% of the teams at the four. That leaves NU weak against Michigan St, Michigan and Purdue ... which is generally my point.

If you're telling me Turner can guard in the ballpark of Sanjay, I hope this is based on more than five minutes of YouTube videos.

 

[IdahoAlum]

Think it's been confirmed that he will be eligible to play this coming season. A kid transferring from a ACC school will not want to take a shirt.

I'm aware he'll be eligible next year. But if it turns out NU has more wing players than it can accommodate, there's nothing wrong with a redshirt season to better space out resources. Whether Bey is willing to do that, who knows?

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

The roster makeup is starting to reflect the more modern "positionless basketball" philosophies.

Nailed it.

 

[ricko654321]

Once again, I don't disagree with a lot of what you say.

Now, where is that functional player?

I agree Law can play with 80% of the teams at the four. That leaves NU weak against Michigan St, Michigan and Purdue ... which is generally my point.

If you're telling me Turner can guard in the ballpark of Sanjay, I hope this is based on more than five minutes of YouTube videos.

Eh I don't think it's those teams so much. MSU started Miles Bridges at the 4 last year right? And Jaren Jackson at 5 by season end? Sure Miles Bridges is a tough guard for anyone, but I think Vic would have done better against him than any of the "bigs" on our roster. Possibly Pardon though that's an interesting thought experiment.

And Purdue had lots of bigs, but as I noted they rarely / never played both Haas and Haarms together. I believe Vince Edwards was their starting 4 last year. Vic is a good matchup for him. Michigan too - they mostly played 4-out ball, Mo Wagner is a very good player but the reason he's a tough guard for Vic (or whoever) isn't because of his bulk / size, it's because of his mobility and versatility.

On Turner, yes that was just speculation, but he is 6'7" and looks fairly long, granted he's skinny so we'll how he plays live soon enough, he may or may not be strong enough to defend inside as well as outside. Was not at all trying to put him in the same camp as Sanjay without seeing him play in person first.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Once again, I don't disagree with a lot of what you say.

Now, where is that functional player?

I agree Law can play with 80% of the teams at the four. That leaves NU weak against Michigan St, Michigan and Purdue ... which is generally my point.

If you're telling me Turner can guard in the ballpark of Sanjay, I hope this is based on more than five minutes of YouTube videos.

I don't really get your gripe, Sec.112. It's not as if we would be passing up a talented 6'9" guy or a more "functional" player to pursue Bey. It's Bey or no one as far as I can tell. And yes, Bey will be taking up a spot for the next four years, but we would still have four spots for next year in which to pursue bigger guys.

 

[Kelly_32]

When Sacha Killeya-Jones committed to NC State there were 14 scholarship players on their roster. Someone had to leave. I'm thinking there should be more to this story. Was Bey leaving already, and if so why did he wait to announce it. Was NC State only going to release him if they were able to get a player to fill his roster spot first? Was he asked to leave and if so why?

If only we could have an Anonymous poster show up and pretend he knew all those answers.

 

[ricko654321]

If we're going to use Loyola as the example you better start showing me some consistently multi-dimensional NU players - guys who can shoot, get to the basket AND play defense. Falzon ... really? That's the first time I've ever heard slow feet as an advantage.

Among the many reasons I need some size is because the positionless small players AT NU(!!!) so many of you are relying are single dimensional players.

Again, I agree. Get the outside shooting and we're not having this discussion.

Hopefully, Kopp shoots like Custer and Nance has an outside game to go with his shot like Townes. That would go a long way toward shutting me up and making up for the lack of size. That's my hope. In the meantime, I'm not sure those scorers exist from last year's team not to mention anybody comparable to the pretty good versatility on Loyola beyond Custer, Townes, etc.

So yes, I'm looking for some better defense.

No I meant Falcon trying to defend the 4 (ie bigger but slower) is worse for us than Vic trying to defend the 4 (smaller but quicker). In my experience the mismatches usually come when a team has a 4 that is too mobile for his counterpart to guard (which is not a problem for Vic), rather than from a team that has two traditional strong bigs and attacks your small ball 4 by posting him up (which may be an issue for Vic against some theoretical team).

Maybe we are violently agreeing. If your point is just that we need to find more unicorns - ie big players that are also mobile and can play both inside and out a la Bridges or the handful of more advanced versions in the NBA, well then yes okay I agree. Vic is good but he’s not perfect I would like him to be a bit bigger / stronger and be able to create shots off the dribble more without losing any of his other skills. But finding those types of uniquely versatile and talented players isn’t exactly a secret - it’s what everyone is trying to do, no? They are just rare.

 

[hdhntr1]

Today’s game is all about versatility and shooting. Give me 5 guys between 6”5 and 6”9 who can shoot, handle, defend and I don’t really care what the other team lines up. They may have bigs that give you problems on the defensive end of the floor but that means you’ll have a huge matchup advantage on the offensive side of the ball. It’s all about imposing your style of play on the other team. The three point line and tightly officiated games have given a leg up to teams who can space the entire floor with shooters, emphasize transition offense, and defend the peremiter with exceptional athletes.

Sounds like Loyola

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

Guys like Bey and Nance are intriguing because they built a lot of skills as smaller players and had/are having growth spurts later that should create mismatches. It would be great to have them both on the squad for the next 4 years!

 

[hdhntr1]

If we're going to use Loyola as the example you better start showing me some consistently multi-dimensional NU players - guys who can shoot, get to the basket AND play defense. Falzon ... really? That's the first time I've ever heard slow feet as an advantage.

Among the many reasons I need some size is because the positionless small players AT NU(!!!) so many of you are relying are single dimensional players.

Again, I agree. Get the outside shooting and we're not having this discussion.

Hopefully, Kopp shoots like Custer and Nance has an outside game to go with his shot like Townes. That would go a long way toward shutting me up and making up for the lack of size. That's my hope. In the meantime, I'm not sure those scorers exist from last year's team not to mention anybody comparable to the pretty good versatility on Loyola beyond Custer, Townes, etc.

So yes, I'm looking for some better defense.

Falzon had a lot of his quickness taken way because he had not totally recovered from knee surgery. I would guess he will be a bit quicker this year and that should help a lot in his ability to defend

 

[corbi296]

Sounds like Loyola

That was their approach but Loyola had several 6ft to 6”3 guys in their rotation who could not create their own shot. The fact they got to the Final Four is a testament to their players/coaches but also a reflection of how poor the caliber of play is in college basketball these days.

 

[NJCat]

Falzon had a lot of his quickness taken way because he had not totally recovered from knee surgery. I would guess he will be a bit quicker this year and that should help a lot in his ability to defend

All I want to see from Aaron this season is his knocking down 3's at a 45% clip or better. He's a shooter.

 

[hdhntr1]

All I want to see from Aaron this season is his knocking down 3's at a 45% clip or better. He's a shooter.

True dat but he has to be able to play D to stay on the floor

 

[NJCat]

True dat but he has to be able to play D to stay on the floor

Exhibit A: BMac.

 

[Sec.112]

... Maybe we are violently agreeing. If your point is just that we need to find more unicorns - ie big players that are also mobile and can play both inside and out a la Bridges or the handful of more advanced versions in the NBA, well then yes okay I agree ... They are just rare.

Yes, they are rare, especially at NU.

As this discussion continues, everybody is describing the perfect player - shoot from outside, plays inside and defends well. Of course, people won't turn them down.

As you said, these guys are rare as are the 6-6/6-7 Draymond Green and Charles Barkley prototypes.

So the reality becomes where do you get your rebounding and defense to become an elite team? From a long line of 6-6 guys - the same prototype, dime-a-dozen player who is the first one off the bench at Purdue, Michigan and MSU? As we look at depth (one of the original points of the thread), I don't know how much another tweener gets you.

Those beating me up about the flood of schollies next year make a good point. If Bey falls in their lap, great! But beyond that, the 2s and 3s sure should be a low priority for recruiting.

 

[Sec.112]

Falzon had a lot of his quickness taken way because he had not totally recovered from knee surgery. I would guess he will be a bit quicker this year and that should help a lot in his ability to defend

Count me among those who admire the generosity of many on the board about Falzon's recovery.

 

[IGNORE2]

100% agree with Sect. 112. We do not need another 2 or 3 with Law, Taylor, Turner, Gaines and Kopp and maybe Nance already taking minutes at the 2 or 3. InsideNU has stated that Gaines will be seeing minutes at PG or the 1. I would much prefer an experienced PG as a grad transfer as the backup PG. If Gaines does see minutes at the 1 it will show his versatility and it will show that the staff needs him on the floor more and that the staff realizes that JA is not a 1. I would prefer a 5th year PG who is a pass first guy who can set up a play and break a press in Big 10 play rather than Gaines or Ash as the primary backup PGs.

Nance is not a 3 or a wing. He is a 6’10” stretch four.

 

[Cat Fan in Buckeye Land]

I will take as many good players as we can get. The minutes will figure themselves out.

 

[TheC]

It's not height its functional ability. Draymond Green is 6'7" he plays a bunch of Center. Sanjay was what, a generous 6'7", probably realistically 6'6"? He could guard C's. Michigan has gone 4 out + 1 big a whole bunch in the years under Beilien. You need versatile players with length, strength, and quickness. Law can play stretch 4 IMO against 80% of the matchups we will see in conference, maybe more. Turner can guard the 4 in most situations too.

As with NBA teams, if you give up size down low you just double team and then use your quickness and team D to close the gaps. Look at GSW, Houston, Cleveland, Boston, etc. None of those teams are running out 2 traditional bigs. Purdue has had two very talented bigs for the last couple years (Haas + Swanigan, then Haas + Haarms) and very rarely played them alongside each other because of the matchup challenges, and bc it clogs the floor.

I agree with most of this except for the part about Boston. They are running a lot of Banes and Horford which has actually given them quite an advantage over Cleveland because Horford is a big body who can do it all. But that's rare, especially in college.

 

[ricko654321]

I agree with most of this except for the part about Boston. They are running a lot of Banes and Horford which has actually given them quite an advantage over Cleveland because Horford is a big body who can do it all. But that's rare, especially in college.

Horford has played 35 mpg in the playoffs, Baynes has played 20. Add in 6 mpg from Greg Monroe (9 mpg in 9 games played out of 14). That adds up to 61 minutes. With 2 games in OT there has been an avg of 49 mpg total.

Their best lineup has been with Horford as a small ball center. Their next favorite one has been with Baynes as more of a traditional center (albeit one who has just acquired the ability to shoot somehow?) and 4 out around him. Then they've played about 12 mpg with 2 bigs in there. Versus about 37 mpg with one big and 4 wings / guards. I stand by my comment on Boston.

Tatum and Jaylen Brown have been surprisingly impressive, btw. Plus Rozier. Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens have the golden touch it seems.

 

[hdhntr1]

Exhibit A: BMac.

BMac coordinated the O and was therefore pretty indispensable and he got to a respectable D. But if we are talking just a shooter...That can often be replaced. Tap would be a better comparison and he was restricted in his minutes largely because of his limitations on D.

 

[DaCat]

Nance is not a 3 or a wing. He is a 6’10” stretch four.

Amen, Sponge Bob. Plus many are saying that he isn't done growing yet, so he could be a 7 feet stretch four before his college career is done, be it 2 years or 4 years. His development both physically and skill-wise could really propel our program to new heights.

 

[TheC]

Horford has played 35 mpg in the playoffs, Baynes has played 20. Add in 6 mpg from Greg Monroe (9 mpg in 9 games played out of 14). That adds up to 61 minutes. With 2 games in OT there has been an avg of 49 mpg total.

Their best lineup has been with Horford as a small ball center. Their next favorite one has been with Baynes as more of a traditional center (albeit one who has just acquired the ability to shoot somehow?) and 4 out around him. Then they've played about 12 mpg with 2 bigs in there. Versus about 37 mpg with one big and 4 wings / guards. I stand by my comment on Boston.

Tatum and Jaylen Brown have been surprisingly impressive, btw. Plus Rozier. Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens have the golden touch it seems.

Fair enough. I know they start together, but then I confess I haven't paid as close attention to the substitution patterns as the game goes on. I just know they are kicking butt, which makes this long time Celtics' fan happy!

 

[ricko654321]

Fair enough. I know they start together, but then I confess I haven't paid as close attention to the substitution patterns as the game goes on. I just know they are kicking butt, which makes this long time Celtics' fan happy!

Haha yeah. I'm no Celtics fan, but what they've done without their two best players (supposedly) has been very impressive. Curious to see if they can keep it up on the road or whether LBJ has enough left to stretch the series.

 

[hdhntr1]

Amen, Sponge Bob. Plus many are saying that he isn't done growing yet, so he could be a 7 feet stretch four before his college career is done, be it 2 years or 4 years. His development both physically and skill-wise could really propel our program to new heights.

If he grows that much he likely wouldn't be ready for a step into the pros that fast as he would likely still be adjusting to his new found height.

 

[hoosboot]

Yes, they are rare, especially at NU.

As this discussion continues, everybody is describing the perfect player - shoot from outside, plays inside and defends well. Of course, people won't turn them down.

As you said, these guys are rare as are the 6-6/6-7 Draymond Green and Charles Barkley prototypes.

So the reality becomes where do you get your rebounding and defense to become an elite team? From a long line of 6-6 guys - the same prototype, dime-a-dozen player who is the first one off the bench at Purdue, Michigan and MSU? As we look at depth (one of the original points of the thread), I don't know how much another tweener gets you.

Those beating me up about the flood of schollies next year make a good point. If Bey falls in their lap, great! But beyond that, the 2s and 3s sure should be a low priority for recruiting.

There's a reason they call them "3 and D" guys. And it's not just because they can shoot the 3 ball. Guys like Klay, Kawai, Robert Covington, Trevor Ariza, etc. can guard 2-3 positions at a very high level because they play great, fundamental defense and use their athletic flexibility to match up with different positions in varying ways. I don't know if Saddiq Bey fits that mold, but his size at 6'7"/195 pounds as a high school senior doesn't disqualify him from guarding the 4.

It's not like we successfully guard the bigger 4's in the B1G with our larger guys. That's because it's not Falzon's size that makes him a mediocre to poor defender and rebounder. It's that he's a mediocre to poor defender and rebounder. Guys like Lump and Jitim Young guard multiple positions effectively despite their size. Guys like BMac or Luka don't guard any position very well despite their size.

So, this is a long way of saying...recruiting a 6'9"/220 pound HS senior who isn't a good defender isn't a better defensive strategy than recruiting a 6'7"/195 pound HS senior who is a voracious defender.

 

[cometclear]

There's a reason they call them "3 and D" guys. And it's not just because they can shoot the 3 ball. Guys like Klay, Kawai, Robert Covington, Trevor Ariza, etc. can guard 2-3 positions at a very high level because they play great, fundamental defense and use their athletic flexibility to match up with different positions in varying ways. I don't know if Saddiq Bey fits that mold, but his size at 6'7"/195 pounds as a high school senior doesn't disqualify him from guarding the 4.

It's not like we successfully guard the bigger 4's in the B1G with our larger guys. That's because it's not Falzon's size that makes him a mediocre to poor defender and rebounder. It's that he's a mediocre to poor defender and rebounder. Guys like Lump and Jitim Young guard multiple positions effectively despite their size. Guys like BMac or Luka don't guard any position very well despite their size.

So, this is a long way of saying...recruiting a 6'9"/220 pound HS senior who isn't a good defender isn't a better defensive strategy than recruiting a 6'7"/195 pound HS senior who is a voracious defender.

I know we hear this all the time, but the speculation I read last Fall was that Bey wasn't done growing and could be in that 6'9" range eventually.

 

[Windy City Cat Fan]

Given the circumstances of his departure, I doubt NC State would have the gall or the ability to put any limitations on him. Remember, he technically is not a transfer. NC State is releasing him from his signed Letter of Intent.

He was released without any restrictions, so he can sign anywhere that has an available spot.

 

[TheAnonymous13]

If only we could have an Anonymous poster show up and pretend he knew all those answers.

Hi!

Anyway, yes - Bey had already made it known internally that he was seeking out of his LOI prior to Coach Keatts pursuing SKJ.
I believe Bey was heavily recruited by AW Hamilton, who took an HC job.
People don’t realize how close these kids get to assistants, and underestimate how critical assistant coaches are in the decision.
The same may happen with Khavon Moore at Texas Tech, who was recruited by Pinkins.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Bey said he made up his mind a couple of weeks ago and his request for the release was not related to the transfers or anything else happening with roster numbers.

“People think it was related to that, but it was 100 percent not,” Bey said. “That’s false.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ard-saddiq-bey-granted-release-from-nc-state/