We're supposed to be a smart business school and yet we still have fans who think trying to fill our small, deluxe, luxury stadium with our small, extremely well-heeled fan base by offering dirt cheap tickets is a smart plan
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- Thread starter CMcCat
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You forgot If those higher prices are too high you will lose a number of even those hard core fans and donors. And that will have a longer term negative affect. Cause once you lose them, real hard to get them back and there are not exactly a ton of people standing in line, waiting to take their place
Those folks will be replaced by corporations paying a crap-ton for suites.
This is the economics of modern college football. NU would be doing itself a disservice by pursuing any strategy besides revenue maximization.
Sorry but I have checked policies including ticket prices and donations required at IL, IA, WIS, MN , MD, Rutgers and IND and what we are paying this year (including donations for both) is higher (and in most cases, significantly higher) for 5 games at NU (and I am around the 15-20 with pretty bad sightlines and not midfield) for much worse tickets than what is required for prime seats (between the 40s) for any of them for a full season.. And we still have to buy tickets to the other two games.
I tried to check MICH, OSU , PSU and NEB but too hard to get the info
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If they actually wisely use their revenue and consistently won games, the fans will come out. If they go 4-8 or worst every other year, you can’t give the tickets away.
We saw from after 95, even winning a number of games does not keep the place full, They bail at the first downturn. And with the competition we are facing hard to see us becoming OSU or MICH, Novelty of the new stadium wears off quickly and at that point you better have a superior product or the high price will have people voting with their wallet and feet
Ok, you’ve made your point. All I know is we have awful overall fan support as a program. The relative few that turn out are awesome, but there are not enough of them at cheap prices. We’ll see how it plays out.
Not going to provide the answer here, but will suggest the terms of the debate. The purpose of the university, and the sports programs, should not be to maximize money. Heck, if it were, we could effectively sell regular student admissions to the high bidder as private universities did in yesteryear. Universities have come to mean a lot of different things to different people. I think the answer to the pricing scheme is something more creative than mostly high prices or all very cheap - which I will concede has been the NU history. A design should be found that maximizes money from those happy to pay and the opponents from out of town who deserve to pay, leaves room for the lifers (maybe grandfathers them in in some fashion?) who would struggle with the higher prices, and also encourages casual fans who might become future supporters. Some elasticity based on the fortunes of the Eleven may be needed as there have been a lot of peaks and valleys.
Nope. There are far less seats available (lower supply), so prices go up. That’s literally day one Econ 101 stuff.
An optimistic, altruistic take. But not reality. Modern college football is all about the money.
NU fans can't have it both ways. If you want NU to continue to field a Big Ten football team in today's world, they have to step up to the money table. Includes the whole ball of wax from facilities to ticket prices. Their partners will insist on it over time. Having an Ivy League perspective won't cut it.
Accept certain inalienable truths
Prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too, will get old
And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young
Prices were reasonable, politicians were noble
And children respected their elders
Prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too, will get old
And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young
Prices were reasonable, politicians were noble
And children respected their elders
I expect the key assumption in their models is that football revenue will be flat to slightly in decline through the duration of the current TV contract as fan interest wanes based on team performance and then drops markedly when NU is cut from the megaconference and no longer competes in a football revenue-generating activity.
They could have put $250-300mm into a major renovation of RF as the Cubs have done with Wrigley. But knowing that football is on the outs, they decided to take advantage of a donor who wanted to gain experience in building a major stadium so as to enhance his eventual efforts to become a NFL owner and create an entertainment complex that establishes revenue to replace what will be lost from football TV contracts.
Hate to burst your bubble...
While we all appreciated the history of Dyche/Ryan, making a comparison to Wrigley is one of the dumbest things I've heard on this board. With exception of Fenway you can't compare anything about Wrigley to another North American stadium. If the Yankees were able to survive tearing down Yankee Stadium and building anew I think NU can do the same with Ryan Field. BTW, the end cost of Wrigley renovations ended up being $700M+ (and nicely all paid with private money).
I might add yesterday's game was a blast.
Amazing game. Reminded me of 54-51 which was similarly played in an historic park that could have been preserved. I am old enough to remember when NU marketed a then recently renovated RF as the “Wrigley Field of college football.”
And the Yankees can build their Mecca. They run no risk of being relegated to AAA.
My bubble is intact ;-)
Putting $300 mil into Ryan field would have been putting lipstick on a pig. That structure was shot. MEP-wise don't know but likely would have needed to be gutted. Probably all the surrounding infrastructure would have needed to be renovated like it is now. Isn't clear where they would have constructed all the additional functional spaces they are adding now since the existing structure complicates the matter.
I thought Pat Ryan is a part owner of the Bears. I doubt he needs any experience in building stadiums. Lots of people and firms can help with that. It is the money that's the magic ingredient.
I thought Pat Ryan is a part owner of the Bears. I doubt he needs any experience in building stadiums. Lots of people and firms can help with that. It is the money that's the magic ingredient.
So instead they decide increase prices 300% and drive away what few fans they do have, If that is NU Business School, I am glad I went elsewhere
Some people will pay for suites and reasonable to get what you can out of them. But most will not. My guess is that there might be demand for 5k more or less of those premium seats. Much more than that and and a lot of them will sit empty. Still gotta attempt to fill the other 30K. And for that we can look at our peers. (Sorry but those peers don't really include MICH, PSU, OSU). Our peers are more IL, IND, PU, IA, MN, MD, Rutgers and maybe WIS (don't really know about the West Coast schools . Still hard to grasp). And they price tickets between the 40s (Prime seating) at $600 to $1000 including donations and that is for 7 home games including 4 or 5 BIG games. Seating outside of that area is significantly less. What we have seen this year is prices of $1100 for 15-20 yds seats with poor sight lines(because they are so low) for only 5 games (and they aren't all BIG games). And we have seen what you would expect. Long time ST holders deciding enough is enough and voting with their feet and wallets. Reality is that at the prices being charged this year it is hard to even get 4K to pay the price.
Not demanding cheap tickets, But they do need to be reasonably priced and this year they sure are not, NU carrying that pricing structure into the new stadium will likely result in disaster
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Y
You are forgetting a big part of that ECON lesson, First that a free market determines the price at which supply and demand are equal. And that demand is elastic or inelastic. You seem to be thinking that a large portion of NU ST demand is more inelastic where you can sell what you have at any price, That can be true when you have a lot of additional people willing to take your place if you chose not to buy like at a perenial power with a huge fan base like MICH, OSU or PSU. We have seen that a big portion of NU demand is more elastic because we don';t have people waiting in line to take current ST holders place and that when you price the product too high, demand goes down. They have currently priced the product too high and people are deciding not to renew and there are not a lot of people behind them waiting to take their place at the new prices
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Reading this thread, as someone who moved out of the Chicago area a little less than 30 years ago and gave up his 45 yard line season tickets at the time makes me glad I don’t have to make the choices you all are making.
I do think the prices charged are a little goofy, and wonder why the athletic department doesn’t consider some pricing plans to retain and develop longtime STH’s and members of the Northwestern community. The bulk of the football revenue comes from media. To me, allocating a block of say 2500 to 5000 tickets for STH with a face value of $50 to $75 per seat per game with first priority to long term STH would build good will, help fill the stadium with purple, and not result in a huge revenue drain.
I know I’ve mentioned that for 25years I’ve been a Call STH. I have renewed every year because I get a couple of status discounts (senior, long term STH and retired faculty). Finding a place in the new stadium for longterm members of the NU community seems to me to be a no brainer.
I do think the prices charged are a little goofy, and wonder why the athletic department doesn’t consider some pricing plans to retain and develop longtime STH’s and members of the Northwestern community. The bulk of the football revenue comes from media. To me, allocating a block of say 2500 to 5000 tickets for STH with a face value of $50 to $75 per seat per game with first priority to long term STH would build good will, help fill the stadium with purple, and not result in a huge revenue drain.
I know I’ve mentioned that for 25years I’ve been a Call STH. I have renewed every year because I get a couple of status discounts (senior, long term STH and retired faculty). Finding a place in the new stadium for longterm members of the NU community seems to me to be a no brainer.
I will defer to you on construction-related complications. I don’t know what $300mm will get in a renovated RF. It gets USF a brand new stadium. So it seems reasonable that such amount of gloss would result in a pleasant porcine pigskin pavilion, but not a glorious concert hall.
Ryan is a part owner of the Bears. That’s the point. If the McCaskeys would ever relent, he’d then be able to point to his building of this stadium to win over league owners that he can build another one in Arlington Heights as principal owner. I suspect that is a big part of why he isn’t putting his money, instead, into a meaningful RF renovation coupled with the NIL necessary for NU to compete in minor league pro ball. He knows the end is near for NU’s Big Ten Team.
I am curious what percent of total revenue is to come from boxes versus game tickets. I don’t recall how many boxes are in the current plan but I presume many will not be sold on a game basis but on an annual basis such to include all entertainment events that are held there. That has to be a huge amount of total take.
This is why the concerts are the primary deliverable. Your box package will initially have as many major concerts as games taking place each year. Ultimately you will have three or four times as many concerts. And that’s just the “major” concerts - there will be something like 60 smaller ones annually. That is a lot of entertainment for the corporate box buyer. Remember, these are the concerts that now are at Wrigley and the Salt Shed.
They could price the football season tickets at very affordable levels as the net revenue after paying out the guest is a minor amount of the total take. They really need the donations more. They are in a pinch now as they don’t have enough capacity to fund the program. Next year with the boxes the pricing should be radically different. Should be. Probably won’t be.
He thinks football’s end is near, which is why he’s facilitating NU spending $800M and not $300M. Got it.
Why would Ryan need to “win over league owners”?
Also, he’s 87 years old.
Huh? How are we getting from 6 concerts, to 18-24 “major concerts” in year? 60 “smaller” concerts? What? Salt Shed holds like ~4,000 people…that’s not a venue competitive with a 30k person stadium.
No. This is NU attempting to price like a program with a large regional audience. Despite marketing itself as Chicago’s B1G Team, it merely proved that it is the Big Ten’s Chicago Venue for fans of NU’s opponents. Some might find this sad, but it’s the reality.
Northwestern negotiated for 6 stadium concerts and up to 60 events at Welsh Ryan. And you can bet that they’re already lobbying for more stadium events.
Sadly, this story about Forest Hills Stadium sounds ominously similar to the Ryan Field scenario.
The Concert Cold War in a Quiet Enclave
Designed to be an idyllic neighborhood more than a century ago, Forest Hills Gardens is now a hub for music — and noise complaints.
60 events of fewer than 7,500 people are not going be giant revenue concerts…that’s Christkindlmarket. Come on. God forbid Ryan Field hosts the state high school playoffs or something.Northwestern negotiated for 6 stadium concerts and up to 60 events at Welsh Ryan. And you can bet that they’re already lobbying for more stadium events.
Sadly, this story about Forest Hills Stadium sounds ominously similar to the Ryan Field scenario.
The Concert Cold War in a Quiet Enclave
Designed to be an idyllic neighborhood more than a century ago, Forest Hills Gardens is now a hub for music — and noise complaints.www.nytimes.com
Not sure that the people signing up for the boxes are at this point getting anything more than the FB games. I really doubt that they are, They might have first right of refusal to buy high priced tickets to the concerts but I don't see them included . The price I heard for the top suites was a $1 mill donation (1 time I believe) and $45k per year for 10 seats for 10 years but that does include food and drinks. Even if there were 100 of them that would only be 1000 seats. (would raise $100 million up front) May be some other lower cost options but the reality is it is not all that many seats involved. You see this same limited number of suites at the other stadiums around Chicago White Sox, Cubs, Bears, Hawks and Bulls. They are there but there are not that many seats involved. As far as concerts, I cannot imagine city of Evanston allowing 20-30 major concerts a year and definitely don't see the 50-60 smaller ones either
My guess is that you would find that if the premium seating was around 5000 seats, it would likely generate 70% of the total FB revenue. ( Not going to go into concert revenue because I consider that to a separate issue and really don't ahve a way to figure it at this time) For example the super suites would generate about $10K per year in donations ($1 mill divided by 10 years divided by 10 seats) and $4500 in annual tickets. for a total close to $15K per seat. ($15 mill per year) Say there are another 4K suite seats that generate an average of$5k per seat. ($20 mill) That is a total of $35 million and this is pretty much set as they tend to be presold Compare that with the other 30K seats that generate about $750 each (end zone seats don't generate much and not prime seats also make up a chunk. Prime seats generate about $1000 (mostly STs) each non prime $600 each (50% ST) and end zone $350 each. The total if all sold would be about $22.5 mill but likely over time they will not be so call it $15 mill. Total FB revenue $50 mill. About $35 mill from the suites and $15 mill from other seats or 70% from the premium suites
The new model, tickets are not necessarily high priced. Checking peers such as IL, IND, PU, MN, IA, WIS, MD and RUT pricing of Prime tickets (between the 40s) the tend to run about $400per season ticket and those revenues are split with the opponent, But they are going to required donations and that money is not split. In looking at the schools that I mentioned they have required donations for prime seating of say $200-600 per seat per year. IA is one of if not the highest at $600. That brings the overall price of prime (between the 40s) including donations to around $600-1000 depending on the school. Outside of Prime area seating the donations and ticket prices often drop dramatically so you can get seats between the 30-40 yard lines for a nice discount. Go to the the are of 15-30 and the discount becomes more pronounced . End zone or upper deck and they get to where they just want to get them occupied. Some do higher ticket prices and lower donations and sometimes it is the other way around.
Example Rutgers tickets between the 45s, $812.48 $512 ticket $250 donation $50 tax all in. From the 30-45 $691 each ($200 donation and 448 for the tickets and and $40 tax)and outside of that$578 and this is they lower deck. MD by comparison, the tickets are all $379 but the donations per ticket range from $150-500 for good to great sideline seating. IA prime seating is $400 plus $600 donation. Drops to $400 donation if outside of 40. The other programs of what I would concider our peers are similar. I could go on but you see what the ranges are. And these prices are for the whole 7 game season.
This is just back of the envelope stuff but I would guess it is at least in the ballpark,
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I’m saying there’s enough inelasticity that raising prices will not turn away enough of the “core” fans while making more money off them then making up the difference with luxury boxes and other offering.
They pretty clearly mispriced some areas of the lakeside last year and adjusted this year. My all-in costs for south end zone seats actually went down almost 40% this season.
Long story short: there are ways to remain engaged with the team at your chosen price point, you’re just mad that it’s not the same exact experience as in the “old days.”
The suites aren’t going to be marketed to individuals but to businesses, a market previously completely untapped at Ryan Field.
I got info yesterday on the suites. There are 14 available each hold up to like 15 people. They are all sold out to trustees and mega donors and the gifts alone on them were between 1-2million a piece.
Great way to support the biggest revenue sharing pie available for the players!
