Seriously. What can be done to prevent being outnumbered by visiting fans?

[Hkjb]

OK - I know the simplest answer. Win. That all makes sense. But it feels passive to me, in the era of deep learning and advanced analytics.

A scenario:

We have two season ticket packages:
1. Super high price without purple loyalty rebate: Presumes visiting fans will go to the game, etc.
2. Same price with 50% season-end rebate: For 'Cats fans that pledge not to let the tickets go to visiting fans

Its not hard to program a model and install a few cameras to a) scan the seats. b) analyse colours (eg of what people are wearing) c) flag likely cases of visitor fan incursion
Let's say that if you want the rebate, we allow a "grace" insursion or two, just in case there's some machine error.

People who keep the pledge get 50% back at year's end, or perhaps even more if they apply it to next year's season tickets.

We have a Tech, they do tech stuff. Why not embrace data and apply it to hoops in the nerdiest, most ruthless way possible?

 

[cedricmelons]

I'd love to have as few opposing fans as possible at WRA and Ryan Field, but our Chicago-area location makes this much more difficult than at any other Big Ten school. Demographic, geographic, and economic factors all present challenges that you just don't find in West Lafayette, Iowa City, State College, etc. I think it's safe to assume that there are proportionally more alumni and fans of other Big Ten schools in Chicago with higher disposable incomes than any other market in the conference.

 

[its_the_sauce]

It would be interesting to poll those on this page who call out the issue of too many opposing fans in WR to see how many of them actually buy ST's or even single games. Even these recent games that sold-out had plenty of seats available up until early January.

If too many opposing fans are an issue for you, buy tickets yourself.

 

[NJCat]

Well, they already removed 1,000 seats when they rebuilt WRA. Maybe they need to use the football tarps to remove another couple thousand.

Seriously, the answer is to put a good product on the court.

 

[Zootcat]

I like the rebate idea, but am not sure how well it would hold up based on photo surveillance. Maybe there‘s some way to easily tie the QR code to a face scan at entry. the biggest issue, i think, is you can’t legally prevent resale. Once the purchaser buys a ticket, they own it. If I’m wrong about that, I’d love to hear it.

 

[Zootcat]

Well, they already removed 1,000 seats when they rebuilt WRA. Maybe they need to use the football tarps to remove another couple thousand.

Seriously, the answer is to put a good product on the court.

I‘d like to believe this is the answer, but how would you prevent season ticket sales to brokers?

 

[julescat]

I enjoy having so many fans of our opponents at our games, both football and basketball. It's more fun when the stadium is full and it is not often when NU fans will do that by themselves even with very good teams.

 

[GrandRapidsCatFan]

I may buy season tickets next year, but am probably a far enough drive away that I won't make many of the weekday games. What is the best way to ensure unused tickets end up in the hands of another NU fan? Is there a way to donate unused tickets to students?

 

[NJcatsfan]

I’m open to some analytics and mechanisms, but your first answer is the only one. If we put a consistently good product on the floor, our fans will want to be a part of it. Our season ticket sales will increase. We have 25-30k purple fans at most football games…we can get 5k in WR for hoops. IF student interest remains strong moving forward, expand the student sections a bit. I think this will be a good discussion for the off season. For now, this is fun. PSU is sold out and will be almost entirety our fans. Let’s show up in force at the BTT & NCAAs.

 

[NUCat320]

I’m open to some analytics and mechanisms, but your first answer is the only one. If we put a consistently good product on the floor, our fans will want to be a part of it. Our season ticket sales will increase. We have 25-30k purple fans at most football games…we can get 5k in WR for hoops. IF student interest remains strong moving forward, expand the student sections a bit. I think this will be a good discussion for the off season. For now, this is fun. PSU is sold out and will be almost entirety our fans. Let’s show up in force at the BTT & NCAAs.

I agree, and I don’t really think we’ll ever get to a place where Indiana, Illinois, and Wisconsin fans don’t make it feel like a supersectional.

Those fans are close and plentiful and buy right away and love ‘taking over’ Welsh-Ryan.

Our fanbase is good but skeptical. I just hope this student momentum continues. A packed student section on the floor and in the opposing ears makes the rest of the arena matter a little less.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I may buy season tickets next year, but am probably a far enough drive away that I won't make many of the weekday games. What is the best way to ensure unused tickets end up in the hands of another NU fan? Is there a way to donate unused tickets to students?

You could give them to me?

 

[GrandRapidsCatFan]

You could give them to me?

I'll definitely offer them up on this board before I put them up for sale on the open market, if I end up pulling the trigger

 

[StreamCat]

Winning is “passive”? Interesting.

I’m old enough to remember when Chicago went crazy nuts for DePaul basketball in early ‘80’s simply because DePaul was winning. NU basketball is in a position to grab ahold of that energy. Win and watch what happens. That’s my elaborate plan to boost attendance. You’re welcome.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

I'm all for the goals, but let's not get too creepy with this. Facial recognition software? Cameras in the building analyzing what color clothes you're wearing? Let's win. Let's discourage selling to opposing fans. Let's make it easy to get unused tickets to other NU fans/students, but some of this stuff is a bridge too far.

 

[Deeringfish]

I may buy season tickets next year, but am probably a far enough drive away that I won't make many of the weekday games. What is the best way to ensure unused tickets end up in the hands of another NU fan? Is there a way to donate unused tickets to students?

Maybe that could be a package option. Buy season tickets, earmark the games you want to donate to students only, get a discount on those tickets. Other games that you didn't earmark but can't get to offer up here on the board.

 

[Zootcat]

Maybe that could be a package option. Buy season tickets, earmark the games you want to donate to students only, get a discount on those tickets. Other games that you didn't earmark but can't get to offer up here on the board.

Or at least have an easy on-line way to do this during the season.

 

[zeek55]

Have a lot of years like this year.

Seriously; that's the only way to effectively build the base and create a strong atmosphere where the students fill their sections and create a place that fans want to be in and where it's tough on opponents.

Ticket sales almost always trend with wins and losses.

 

[loyolacat]

When I cant make an LU game my tickets go back to the Athletic Department and they get them to students who didnt make the cut. Of course I have to fight the desire to see them on the 2ndry market. That is the issue....some of those NU tickets go for big bucks....

 

[hdhntr1]

OK - I know the simplest answer. Win. That all makes sense. But it feels passive to me, in the era of deep learning and advanced analytics.

A scenario:

We have two season ticket packages:
1. Super high price without purple loyalty rebate: Presumes visiting fans will go to the game, etc.
2. Same price with 50% season-end rebate: For 'Cats fans that pledge not to let the tickets go to visiting fans

Its not hard to program a model and install a few cameras to a) scan the seats. b) analyse colours (eg of what people are wearing) c) flag likely cases of visitor fan incursion
Let's say that if you want the rebate, we allow a "grace" insursion or two, just in case there's some machine error.

People who keep the pledge get 50% back at year's end, or perhaps even more if they apply it to next year's season tickets.

We have a Tech, they do tech stuff. Why not embrace data and apply it to hoops in the nerdiest, most ruthless way possible?

Reality is that we only have about 30K alumni in Chicago area and we are not a state school so none of the normal other allegiances. Add that many of our alumns really were not sports fans, others are older and everything is now on TV and it becomes very difficult to fill with our fans.

MSU, for example, has over 80K in Chicago. It is a relatively easy trip from many places such as IN, PU, IA etc. Same kind of thing is true of most of the other original BIG schools. For many it is the only chance that they have to see their school play.

Bottom line is you are not going to eliminate them. A move to reducing their impact is by the smaller stadium approach we have take recently but you will never eliminate it. You see the impact when we have a good product when you look at the BB games this year. That said NU is unique in that you can have an interplay with both sides that is pretty unique. For example the Purdue, IU games were an electric experience that could not be duplicated anywhere else. I would suggest you embrace it and enjoy it.

 

[eastbaycat99]

To not have a lot of visiting fans, here are the possible solutions:

1) Quit the B1G and join a conference with schools with a small Chicago fan base; maybe the Big Sky.
2) Be like Rutgers and turn yourself into a state university, expand to about 30,000 undergrads, mostly from the Chicago area.
3) Relocate to a remote, rural area that is hard for city folk to come visit, so only students and staff are around for game day.

The reality is that as long as the local alumni base of the visiting team outnumbers the NU base in Chicago, and there is a secondary market for tickets, WR will see divided crowds. The best thing to do is to be friendly and enjoy their anguish and tantrums when their team loses.

 

[hdhntr1]

Winning is “passive”? Interesting.

I’m old enough to remember when Chicago went crazy nuts for DePaul basketball in early ‘80’s simply because DePaul was winning. NU basketball is in a position to grab ahold of that energy. Win and watch what happens. That’s my elaborate plan to boost attendance. You’re welcome.

The smaller stadium helps and the student section has been something to behold. That said, in the early 80s there was not the TV coverage of every game that there is today. Tickets were less costly and people were looking for things to do. And other than the Bears, Chicago pro sports scene as not really very good. Today there are 10 things to divide everyones attention. I would suggest that even that enthusiasm for DePaul would be hard to duplicate today

 

[zeek55]

Reality is that we only have about 30K alumni in Chicago area and we are not a state school so none of the normal other allegiances. Add that many of our alumns really were not sports fans, others are older and everything is now on TV and it becomes very difficult to fill with our fans.

MSU, for example, has over 80K in Chicago. It is a relatively easy trip from many places such as IN, PU, IA etc. Same kind of thing is true of most of the other original BIG schools. For many it is the only chance that they have to see their school play.

Bottom line is you are not going to eliminate them. A move to reducing their impact is by the smaller stadium approach we have take recently but you will never eliminate it. You see the impact when we have a good product when you look at the BB games this year. That said NU is unique in that you can have an interplay with both sides that is pretty unique. For example the Purdue, IU games were an electric experience that could not be duplicated anywhere else. I would suggest you embrace it and enjoy it.

This is an important set of points as well.

Reality is that Northwestern by virtue of location next to Chicago at the heart of the footprint means that for most of the schools in the conference, a visit to our game may be the only one that their alums in Chicago can attend. Few other schools have to deal with that (Maryland to an extent also has the same issue wrt football given how many alums are in DC area these days).

And yeah the interplay between other fanbases and ours (when we're good especially) can lead to a fun atmosphere.

 

[ricko654321]

I'm all for the goals, but let's not get too creepy with this. Facial recognition software? Cameras in the building analyzing what color clothes you're wearing? Let's win. Let's discourage selling to opposing fans. Let's make it easy to get unused tickets to other NU fans/students, but some of this stuff is a bridge too far.

Ha yeah the facial recognition idea was somewhere between moderate and massive overkill. We don’t need 1984 (or China) level behavior and speech controls. It’s a free country (with free ticket markets), humans can make their own decisions. I want more purple fans too. If you build it, they will come.

 

[NUCat320]

To not have a lot of visiting fans, here are the possible solutions:

1) Quit the B1G and join a conference with schools with a small Chicago fan base; maybe the Big Sky.
2) Be like Rutgers and turn yourself into a state university, expand to about 30,000 undergrads, mostly from the Chicago area.
3) Relocate to a remote, rural area that is hard for city folk to come visit, so only students and staff are around for game day.

The reality is that as long as the local alumni base of the visiting team outnumbers the NU base in Chicago, and there is a secondary market for tickets, WR will see divided crowds. The best thing to do is to be friendly and enjoy their anguish and tantrums when their team loses.

One of the great joys is “Oh, jeez, I can’t believe you lost to North-western. Rough night.”

 

[hdhntr1]

One of the great joys is “Oh, jeez, I can’t believe you lost to North-western. Rough night.”

Especially when they are all saying "Welcome to the club"

 

[hdhntr1]

Ha yeah the facial recognition idea was somewhere between moderate and massive overkill. We don’t need 1984 (or China) level behavior and speech controls. It’s a free country (with free ticket markets), humans can make their own decisions. I want more purple fans too. If you build it, they will come.

It starts with this group of students. THey are now attending and enjoying the experience. There will start being people that will claim they were at a particular game when they really were not as they either were shut out getting tickets or they did not realize what was happening and want to wear it as a badge of honor that they were at an EVENT. When they become alumns a number may stay in Chicago and this can be the basis for a new generation of fans. But it needs to be reasonably consistent

 

[NJcatsfan]

I agree that we won’t ever eliminate visiting fan contingents, due to many of the factors being discussed here. It’s part of what and where NU is. Not getting around that. But I also absolutely believe that with a winning program (different from a winning year here or there), WR is a great size to guarantee large NU majority crowds for big games. Right now, it’s 50/50 for a lot of those games, with students/proximity making the difference on volume. I think 70/30 is totally attainable, even against large local fan bases.

 

[Sec.112]

If you want only one answer, the answer is to win. But a more realistic answer makes the assumption that the team will be average. Now, what do you do to fill up a very small arena consistently when the team is average, so you don't need anything drastic when the team is good.

Any good answer includes a series of steps. My cheap suggestions ...

1) Love getting unused tickets to students. Keep it active, and better publicized.

2) Students have been incredible this year. NU hasn't recently had that kind of participation when the team is average. How do you keep up something in the ballpark of a representative amount of that attendance? I don't have an answer, but addressing the students is vital.

3) FAR more of a concentration on nearby communities.

4) Get many more kids to the games for future investment.

5) So many of these seats are gobbled up in advance. Maybe you pull a Bill Wirtz, and don't sell a large number of seats until the week before the game. If there's not much of a demand, give them away locally. The school is making enough money off TV for now.

6) A lot of concerts have wild card tickets to help combat high prices. Maybe NU can do this to increase attendance. Sell 500 wild card tickets for a lower price and the buyer doesn't know the seat location until they arrive. Most will be upstairs, however, you need a representative amount in the lower area. And the kicker, two wild card seats will be in the Wilsons with full access.

7) I'm not a big fan of this one, but NU can put a zip code hold on sales for a cetain timeframe. The Milwaukee Brewers do this to try to limit Cubs fans.

8) Is it too ridiculous to increase prices based on zip codes?

I'm like StreamCat. My basketball thing starts with DePaul, and Im sure a bunch of us were still kids.

This is a longtime problem that needs to be addressed methodically over 5-10 years to build the brand and the demand in future generations.

 

[DonatelloCat]

I‘d like to believe this is the answer, but how would you prevent season ticket sales to brokers?

When you buy tickets, it says something to the effect of it being prohibited to buy tickets with the intent to re-sell. And then the school has the ability to, at its sole discretion, cancel your tickets with no refund if you're doing this. I'm sure that policing this can get tricky, but if you see every single game posted for sale on the secondary markets, that's a little less ambiguous?

 

[Sec.112]

Bottom line is you are not going to eliminate them.

That's part of my problem. For basketball, NU isn't trying to fill a 30,000 seat arena. They need 7000 NU/local fans.

It's more like 6500 when some students show up.

NU has all these issues regularly getting 6500 fans ... in a major metropolitan area!! It's such an indictment for how much the administrations in the 70s, 80s and early 90s screwed this thing up while programs were growing everywhere.

 

[ubercat]

My ST seats are in Sec. 220, first row. The four seats in the row behind and to the left of us are either filled with opposing B1G fans, or empty for non-con games. If this doesn’t scream BROKER, then I don’t know what does. Gotta use the evidence at hand, and let Mike Wesoloski know, if he doesn’t already.

 

[rwhitney014]

It would be interesting to poll those on this page who call out the issue of too many opposing fans in WR to see how many of them actually buy ST's or even single games. Even these recent games that sold-out had plenty of seats available up until early January.

If too many opposing fans are an issue for you, buy tickets yourself.

It is a problem for me, and I do, but I will gladly report that Sunday was the first time I was surrounded by 80% purple in my upper deck midcourt section.

Winning takes care of a lot. I have other thoughts I’ve shared before - combo season ticket packages for football and basketball, longer tail on young alum status, sending a shuttle or two down into the city where our young alums with disposable cash and time live. I also think it’d be fun to designate a game a year where you try to get every single undergrad possible into the arena. Literally make the whole thing the student section, maybe upgrade your best-attending STHs into the Wilson Club for that game to give a sneak preview and open blocks of seats for students. I like the rebate idea. Lots we can do because the money doesn’t matter.

 

[charcat]

I think they used to offer discounted football tickets to young alums. Maybe do that for the nosebleed seats above if they are not selling. Or sell young Alum 4 packs, two preseason two BIG10. There are things that you can do that lower the threshold for getting tickets in NU hands, and more of then than not, they will get used once purchased

 

[Sec.112]

My son is a fourth year student in McCormick majoring in Computer Science and Material Science engineering. He volunteers, in his free time, to teach 5th grade students in Skokie topics in science, technology, and mathematics. At the end of class, he asks the students if they have any questions. The questions started off about NU Hoops. The questions next moved into whether or not he eats the French fries at Welsh Ryan. He replied that he does not eat the fries. In addition to admonishing my son for his oversight in not trying the fries, the students asked him if he knew who made these fries because the fries are so delicious. He said he did not. They then wanted him to find out who has the recipe for the fries.
Are these fries as good as these fifth graders say they are? I thought Dippin' Dots was an attraction. Perhaps we can win through fried foods? What is the recipe?

So this is a perfectly good example from another thread. Call up DarkSide, get the name of his kid and get every one of those kids, DS Jr. and friends gift cards for a game next year and fries. Start reaching out for many years and make fans out of all these people!

 

[SmellyCat]

It's not just that there are a lot of alums of other schools in Chicago, but Chicago is also more of a destination for a lot of people than Ann Arbor or Champaign. My guess is (this is probably true more for football than basketball), that a lot of people from other schools turn a visit to NU for a sporting event into a whole trip, as there are more fun things to do in Chicago when you're not attending the game.

The key to me - other than just winning - is to start 'em early, no matter how you can. Make sure the current undergrads have as great an experience as possible, but bring in much younger kids for every game. Maybe take every elementary school, middle school, and high school in the area and have a drawing for each game, giving X students free tickets for those games so they associate going to NU games with something positive. Whenever possible, advertise at North Shore schools the upcoming schedule so people willing to pay for tickets come to the games as well.

 

[SmellyCat]

So this is a perfectly good example from another thread. Call up DarkSide, get the name of his kid and get every one of those kids, DS Jr. and friends gift cards for a game next year and fries. Start reaching out for many years and make fans out of all these people!

Absolutely the free fries is a no-brainer. If that one fifth grade class likes the fries, chances are a lot of other kids do too.

 

[ricko654321]

It starts with this group of students. THey are now attending and enjoying the experience. There will start being people that will claim they were at a particular game when they really were not as they either were shut out getting tickets or they did not realize what was happening and want to wear it as a badge of honor that they were at an EVENT. When they become alumns a number may stay in Chicago and this can be the basis for a new generation of fans. But it needs to be reasonably consistent

No doubt. The students have been fantastic this year, and they started coming in size early too - before this 5 game win streak. Starting with the Illinois game, since then they've been packing the student section (both) every game and it's making the rest of the crowd more energized too.

(And yes it helps for them being better fans as alums too)

 

[StreamCat]

I would suggest that even that enthusiasm for DePaul would be hard to duplicate today

Perhaps you are correct about the impossibility of duplicating the DePaul basketball enthusiasm of the 80’s, but the way Chicago goes insane when it gets a winner (I put in evidence the Blackhawks and the Cubs) says otherwise to me. I realize the Cubs and Hawks are professional teams, but we don’t need that scale of excitement to sell enough tickets to fill our humble arena which I believe was the original focus of this thread.

If we reach the Sweet 16, watch what happens. Every Chicagoan who fills out a bracket will be enthralled with the story. That’s right. I said it. Enthralled. 😜

 

[nucatnap]

I may buy season tickets next year, but am probably a far enough drive away that I won't make many of the weekday games. What is the best way to ensure unused tickets end up in the hands of another NU fan? Is there a way to donate unused tickets to stuents?

I would be more than happy to purchase some of the games you do not use.

 

[SmellyCat]

If we reach the Sweet 16, watch what happens. Every Chicagoan who fills out a bracket will be enthralled with the story. That’s right. I said it. Enthralled. 😜

The fact that a lot of people know who Sister Jean is says a lot about how fans will get behind a winner they previously didn't care about. It can happen with NU.