Fitz will probably go with someone else just to spite us, but I was curious, with limited/no information and generally talking out of our collective asses, who do we think is going to be our opening day starter?
Starting QB: the fan base choice
- Thread starter EvanstonCat
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With this offensive line, my bet is all 3 will see plenty of action this season due to injuries.......
You sort of answer your own question. Who outside of the coaching staff really knows enough about any of the three to make a choice?
I honestly don't care who it is...I just hope the coaching staff sees the value in picking one as early as possible and getting him as many reps as possible, rather than let this issue linger throughout camp. None of the options can get in enough reps if we let the "battle" ensue, especially if none of them are immediately floating to the top. McCall has enough experience to pick one and go from there. But hey, second guessing until the last minute is fun too.
I just thought the poll was silly, so I picked the silliest answer. If I have to pick a person in the other category, I'll say Jack Mitchell. He certainly has a great arm being a baseball player.
Agreed. My only hope is that whoever wins it, it's a guy who clearly deserves it because he's awesome. If someone is picked just because no one rose to the top (not that they'd say that out loud), it'll be disappointing. It's clear that most think it will be Thorson, and I'd imagine most HOPE it'll be Thorson. I hope though if it's Oliver or Alviti it's because they clearly earned the gig.
Have to remember both Thorson and Alviti need as many reps as they can get, either to prepare as the starter or the back up. Would guess that the presumed starter gets about 65-70% of practice snaps with the backup taking most of the balance and the third guy stealing a few.
70% for Thorson still. You know there is a change your vote button. Any takers after the scrimmage?
Surprised Oliver has less than Alviti.
Surprised Oliver has less than Alviti.
I was talking with Fitz after the scrimmage and that's just what he said. He hates these message boards and wants to stick it to the posters here once and for all. Just to spite us he is going to start ZO. He may pull him if he does well and put in Yates.
Fitz better start to realize that "these" message boards are composed of NU's most ardent fans. Also someone needs to tell him LOUDLY that it's the fans who help pay his salary. Maybe he should concentrate on "sticking it" to Stanford, Michigan, Io-a, Wisconsin, Nebraska and the team central Illinois.
Christ, you thought that post was serious?
I chose Thorson not because I hope he gets it more than I hope anyone else but I do think Fitz weighs loyalty to older players and if Thorson gets the nod, it will be in the face of that loyalty so it will say to me that he is truly the best. I also don't want to hear people whine if Zack gets the call and struggles, that he was only in there because of Fitz's loyalty issues.
I think it would easier to start Thorson and if he were to struggle bring the experienced Oliver in off the bench as a 4th quarter reliever ala TS in the Colter days. If you start Oliver and he struggles, I'm not sure bringing Thorson in relief would make that much of an impact.
I am not advocating necessarily that he start, but is anyone else surprised that based on a few tweets from student reporters, the Wildcat faithful appears to have jumped off the Alviti bandwagon and back on to the same Zack Oliver who was reviled based on his performance against Illinois? The only thing I would read in to Zack "starting" yesterday's scrimmage is that it was probably his turn with the ones.
Personally, I'm hoping it's Thorson, but Alviti will have a role to play. I think Thorson will take his lumps early and we'll be screaming for his backup after his first incompletion, but it's better for the program in the long run if he starts and it's very much in our interest that he succeeds. However, if it's someone else, it's because they won the competition and deserve our support.
Personally, I'm hoping it's Thorson, but Alviti will have a role to play. I think Thorson will take his lumps early and we'll be screaming for his backup after his first incompletion, but it's better for the program in the long run if he starts and it's very much in our interest that he succeeds. However, if it's someone else, it's because they won the competition and deserve our support.
An offensive line like ours with a QB behind them that still has difficulties grasping the offense, in most cases, would spell disaster. I'm reminded of a 3 QB battle back when Baz was a freshman. Tony Stauss, Alex Webb, and Baz. In that scenario, it was actually an omen to be the 'first starter'. Stauss lasted only one game I think. Webb looked good, but the OL blowed and he got absolutely crushed and almost literally died from a lacerated spleen. Baz stepped in and did ok but at some point got totally abused and I think he actually played some with a broken leg.
In 2007, two more redshirt freshmen started at QB until CJ was finally inserted. I know redshirt freshmen QB's have done excellent at some other programs and won Heisman's. but I haven't seen any evidence at NU that a redshirt freshman can advance our team from previous levels. Sorry guys but we will have a heckuva Defense but the stars didn't align on this one, we will have growing pains this year at QB. I'm still thinking 7-5 but the question I have in my mind is why are our redshirt freshmen QB's historically so ungrasping of our offense? Did Manzeil, Winston, Any OSU QB, and others who looked really good as freshmen just have wide outs that made them look good, or were they just not that tight because their offensive systems were less complex with a more communicable language than the one McCall has? And has McCall had redshirt freshmen perform well when he was at Bowling Green? I don't have the answers but it does appear that none of our 3 QB's are really comfortable AT ALL. Warning Will Robinson!
I voted for Alviti, because the subject line was 'choice' and not 'expectation', and I'd like to see the guy we'd been hearing about since his sophomore year of high school (seriously, I think I've had four addresses since first hearing his name, and I feel like I'm definitely past the 'another year, another new lease, another new roommate' phase of my life) get a chance to run as the undisputed number one.
But my true hope is that the choice is the guy with the biggest upside in the opener, because my hope is that NU goes out there aggressively and fearlessly, trying to win against number 21 and not trying to just keep it close.
My belief is that Zach will be the guy game one, because that's the safe and defensible choice.
My hope is that it's any of the three, the best of the three, and that the first play is an attempt to break the season open, a downfield pass or a trick play or a reverse. (Why not Nagel and Roberts and Alviti and Thorson all there with JJ and Vitale on play one? - four guys with basically zero film. Well, besides the fact that it's stupid.)
Frankly, outside expectations (and expectations here) are fairly ... Measured... For this team. Let's get that first upset in the first week.
".I just hope the coaching staff sees the value in picking one as early as possible and getting him as many reps as possible,"
You mean like they did with Siemian, even though he was injured? Probably have come to regret not playing Oliver more, but who knows. One thing we know for sure, Fitz is STUBBORN. We'll see how that plays out.
The guy who is best able to handle things in the start of the first game is likely Oliver. But long term, he is likely not the answer. Nothing would really surprise me in the game against Stanford.
Something that would surprise me is if we were to play all three QBs strategically according to their talents or the situation in the game. You know, like Cal did last year when they clobbered us? I see us going in with one QB and only changing as a desperate move and then using that QB to conservatively hand the ball off.
Sometimes, it's amazing the growth that a QB can have as an upperclassman that he never had shown before.O"toole f Illinois was a little like that last year. We've had several examples at NU of late bloomers in the past (I'd say Kafka was a pretty good recent example though he had more junior experience ). There was a kid named Tim O'Brien in 1989 who, like ZO, played last two regular season games in '88 ad then in his senior year played quite well (still 2nd only to Persa in pass efficiency rating in NU record book), albeit on an 0-11 team with an AWFUL defense. Let's hope ZO is like that. One thing I have liked is the fact that Oliver says he has a memento from the Illinois game posted in his car as a motivational tool.
That 1989 team I believe had the school record for most points in a season until the 2000 team came along. May have been an atrocious D, but the offense wasn't bad.
Classic Chicago quarterback thinking. The player fans have seen play the least, or never at all, is always the answer.
Where, ever, has it been shown that Fitz shows loyalty to players by playing less talented upper classmen over better freshman/sophomores. I think this thought is derivative of the type of quarterback thinking where the backup is always the best player on the roster.
A position is underperforming with a junior/senior starting, there is a freshman/sophomore on the roster that nobody has ever seen play outside of a few practices or plays, but everybody just KNOWS is the better player, therefore the reason the junior/senior starting is only because Fitz is loyal to the upper classman.
Someone cited a large number of examples of freshman/sophomores who have beaten out juniors/seniors for starting jobs, so I won't rehash them here. But where is the opposite true, that it was proven a more talented player was held off the field to give playing time to the junior/senior?
I know people LOVE to rag on Jacob Schmidt as such an example, but lets look at the younger player everyone was clamoring for then. Arby Fields. Uh, in hindsight, I'd have been playing Schmidt over Fields too. Who else?
Where, ever, has it been shown that Fitz shows loyalty to players by playing less talented upper classmen over better freshman/sophomores. I think this thought is derivative of the type of quarterback thinking where the backup is always the best player on the roster.
A position is underperforming with a junior/senior starting, there is a freshman/sophomore on the roster that nobody has ever seen play outside of a few practices or plays, but everybody just KNOWS is the better player, therefore the reason the junior/senior starting is only because Fitz is loyal to the upper classman.
Someone cited a large number of examples of freshman/sophomores who have beaten out juniors/seniors for starting jobs, so I won't rehash them here. But where is the opposite true, that it was proven a more talented player was held off the field to give playing time to the junior/senior?
I know people LOVE to rag on Jacob Schmidt as such an example, but lets look at the younger player everyone was clamoring for then. Arby Fields. Uh, in hindsight, I'd have been playing Schmidt over Fields too. Who else?
I would honestly expect to see two QBs against Stanford. Oliver to start and then one of the others. The first couple series at least, there would be a lot of nerves that Oliver would be better suited for. Even if Thorson or Alviti are slated to be the starter long term, it might not be best to start one of them against Stanford and break in whoever it is more slowly
I seriously doubt this. Pat was pretty clear on media day that he will not have the starter looking over his shoulder.
I agree that Fitz will always play the man he thinks will get the best results. However, a lot of this thinking on loyalty to upperclassman gets reinforced when Walker, Godwin, JJ and other young players hit the field and immediately tear it up.
Let me see, there's about 100 regular posters on this board? Let's say we average 2 season tickets on the sideline each, and a 100 dollar donation to the program a year. So that's 648 average to the program or a total 64800. So we're short $2,135,200 for Fitz's salary. Yeah, I'm pretty confident that he's not at all the tiny little bit worried about what we think due to the "fact" that we're "helping" to pay his salary.
Great post Darth. I made the point you made about the QBs initially on the Rock. Got into an awesome bet with No Chores due to it. I said it seemed absurd that when Colter was in we wanted Trevor. Then when Trevor came in, people wanted Oliver (one person even called him mobile and compared his large frame to Tim Tebow). Then we saw Oliver and Alviti not tearing it up and then the Illinois loss led to the board being in love with Thorson.
That was me who cited the freshman/sophomores beating upperclassman. We're totally on the same page on this. We have a completely uneducated guess on who's better... Fitz has an educated opinion. I'll assume he's playing the better player.
Walker had a lot of errors against PSU as Fitz stated. Ellis was a multi-year starter. I'm all for a younger guy taking over if they're better, but they have to be clearly better to take a 5th year senior's starting job. There is no way you're going to tell me that Walker was clearly better than Ellis.
And then you bring up Godwin! Was he clearly better than Campbell? I think Godwin being there was one reason why Hall was moved to LB (the other being LB depth or lack of it). But in my opinion, last year Godwin was clearly worse than Campbell. And that's not an insult. It's like saying Magic Johnson is clearly worse than Michael Jordan.
JJ was a different story. Fitz and McPhearson seemed to have a plan on when and how quickly to bring JJ along. How did that change with the Venric Mark situation? If Venric transferred before spring practice, would JJ have been in the plans for next year? I don't know. What I do know is that an 18 year being thrown into a game at the BCS level after a short camp is tough. JJ talked about being thrown in when he did and how much more the game makes sense now. With that said JJ was the leading rusher in the 1st 4 games. They gave him carries. Didn't give him 33 like they did against Wisconsin, but they were getting him in the mix. That makes sense to me. Develop a young player for a few weeks and then let him go.
What I was trying to convey is the initial play of these freshmen were impressive and IMO worthy of at least some spot play which they got. Walker did may some mistakes, but his upside is off the charts. Would he have seen any play if Ellis had not got hurt? We'll never know. I do know he was good enough to see the field in certain situations even if Ellis was healthy.
As far as Godwin, no one claimed he should beat out Campbell. However, same argument as above, he was good enough to be inserted in situations that fit his strength. Who would you have rather had in coverage, Godwin or Henry? This isn't taking anything away from Henry, what he does, he does well.
Maybe I am not remembering the details, but I don't recall much of either Walker or Godwin until we had to use them due to injuries. I think Garrett Dickerson is similar. All kinds of talent waiting to be tapped. To Fitz's credit he did get him in when the situation warranted it.
This is probably just a function of the QB being the most visible player in the game. For example, there were a lot of reasons why NU stunk against Illinois. Knowledgeable fans know it wasn't even close to completely Oliver's fault, but that didn't stop many of them from saying he laid an egg against the Illini and while you're at it, bring on Thorson!
I hear Thorson is going to be great. I also heard that about Alviti and even about Oliver. Oliver has the edge (albeit small) in experience, and if Thorson/Alviti can't separate from him, it makes the most sense for Oliver to be the starter. I changed my vote above from Thorson to Oliver, even if I personally want Thorson just because I'm an irrational Chicago fan too. If Oliver clearly wins the job, I'll still be excited about him and this season.
Go Cats.
I hear Thorson is going to be great. I also heard that about Alviti and even about Oliver. Oliver has the edge (albeit small) in experience, and if Thorson/Alviti can't separate from him, it makes the most sense for Oliver to be the starter. I changed my vote above from Thorson to Oliver, even if I personally want Thorson just because I'm an irrational Chicago fan too. If Oliver clearly wins the job, I'll still be excited about him and this season.
Go Cats.
One thing we should remember is how many of McCall's QB didn't impress until their Sr year.
I can't think of a single McCall QB who was impressive in their Senior year but not earlier. The closest might be Kafka but then there was this. Who exactly are you referring to?
THat is coach speak. It is a matter of putting in the right guy for the situation. Oliver has at least seen the field and has an idea of game speed. Thorson has not. Alviti barely has. Right guy for the start of the game is not necessarily the right guy long term. With Thorson, they might want to bring the kitchen sink while with Oliver, they might be more hesitant. Once the coaching staff had an idea what was happening, they might want to bring in one of the other two. This situation might last a few games so that by the beginning of the BIG season, we might have an established QB.
