State of the Program

[IGNORE]

Been a really rough day for me. And all the news from NU MBB isn’t helping. Correct me:

We have nine guys on schollie. None are proven star players. A couple seem to be serviceable role players. Of the three returning frosh, none really stood out like we have seen on past teams. We have some highly rated recruits, but a history of highly rated recruits not working out.

Most of the primary transfer targets are out of the picture.

We have schollies to boot. Transfers, coaching changes, snubs by the kids of alums. But we danced several years ago.

Someone tell me what intelligent, Northwestern educated based reason there is to be optimistic about this program today.

Lara left.

 

[AnotherSwede]

Been a really rough day for me. And all the news from NU MBB isn’t helping. Correct me:

We have nine guys on schollie. None are proven star players. A couple seem to be serviceable role players. Of the three returning frosh, none really stood out like we have seen on past teams. We have some highly rated recruits, but a history of highly rated recruits not working out.

Most of the primary transfer targets are out of the picture.

We have schollies to boot. Transfers, coaching changes, snubs by the kids of alums. But we danced several years ago.

Someone tell me what intelligent, Northwestern educated based reason there is to be optimistic about this program today.

Lara left.

Lara left says it all.

 

[mikewebb68]

Been a really rough day for me. And all the news from NU MBB isn’t helping. Correct me:

We have nine guys on schollie. None are proven star players. A couple seem to be serviceable role players. Of the three returning frosh, none really stood out like we have seen on past teams. We have some highly rated recruits, but a history of highly rated recruits not working out.

Most of the primary transfer targets are out of the picture.

We have schollies to boot. Transfers, coaching changes, snubs by the kids of alums. But we danced several years ago.

Someone tell me what intelligent, Northwestern educated based reason there is to be optimistic about this program today.

Lara left.

Uh,we have the top-2 best consecutive recruiting classes (2018 and 2019) in, like ever? As in only three BIG teams are better over those two years? Unprecedented heights for our program, and we are already well on our way to it being an unprecedented three years in a row? And those kids all committed to us despite your pessimism about the program? And there are literally hundreds of transfers still in the portal? And there is literally zero chance we will have only 9 players on scholarship come fall? And our coach, in six short years already has a ton of acomplishments under his belt, including a) fastest coach to 100 wins, by far, b) first coach to Dance (and it was two years ago, not "several") b) first coach to WIN a Dance game c) Tied for highest finish in the BIG since 1967-68 (and, if you think about it, much more impressive than Carmody's 5th place, since there were only 11 teams then) d) highest KenPom ranking (by far). e) four BIG finishes outside of the bottom 4 in 6 years (took Camody 12 years to accomplish that, and before that NO coach has done it ONCE since the 60's)?

Is that enough for you? If not, let me know, I'll think of some more things...

 

[torque-cat]

Been a really rough day for me. And all the news from NU MBB isn’t helping. Correct me:

We have nine guys on schollie. None are proven star players. A couple seem to be serviceable role players. Of the three returning frosh, none really stood out like we have seen on past teams. We have some highly rated recruits, but a history of highly rated recruits not working out.

Most of the primary transfer targets are out of the picture.

We have schollies to boot. Transfers, coaching changes, snubs by the kids of alums. But we danced several years ago.

Someone tell me what intelligent, Northwestern educated based reason there is to be optimistic about this program today.

Lara left.

you are the classic glass is half empty human being it seems. a couple of disappointing years but some bad luck in there. Now we've got a huge improvement in facilities and arguably our strongest couple of recruiting classes ever along with plenty of time for the young guys to improve. reminds me of when BMac and Law and all showed up and learned the hard way for a year or two before breaking through. Next year likely to be very tough, but after that I see continued progress upwards.

 

[cometclear]

Let's see, five transfers over the past year and a half and the destinations of these transfers? Colgate, Grand Canyon St., Southern Illinois, Quinnipiac and, I guess, Northern Illinois. Whoops, six. To where did Vassar transfer? A couple of those players are probably D-2 players, in reality.

Those destinations tell you a lot. Either scouting is sub-par, player development is sub-par, or both. Mind you, at least three of those players were eventually expected to be starters and good players.

 

[cometclear]

you are the classic glass is half empty human being it seems. a couple of disappointing years but some bad luck in there. Now we've got a huge improvement in facilities and arguably our strongest couple of recruiting classes ever along with plenty of time for the young guys to improve. reminds me of when BMac and Law and all showed up and learned the hard way for a year or two before breaking through. Next year likely to be very tough, but after that I see continued progress upwards.

Do you know anything about NU basketball beyond 5-10 years ago? Serious question.

 

[IGNORE]

you are the classic glass is half empty human being it seems. a couple of disappointing years but some bad luck in there. Now we've got a huge improvement in facilities and arguably our strongest couple of recruiting classes ever along with plenty of time for the young guys to improve. reminds me of when BMac and Law and all showed up and learned the hard way for a year or two before breaking through. Next year likely to be very tough, but after that I see continued progress upwards.

Ok. If you say so. Let’s save and revisit. Which pisses off a bunch of you. Why should you be held to your aggressive statements in the future. Cheers. Waiting for time to pass.

 

[IGNORE]

Let's see, five transfers over the past year and a half and the destinations of these transfers? Colgate, Grand Canyon St., Southern Illinois, Quinnipiac and, I guess, Northern Illinois. Whoops, six. To where did Vassar transfer? A couple of those players are probably D-2 players, in reality.

Those destinations tell you a lot. Either scouting is sub-par, player development is sub-par, or both. Mind you, at least three of those players were eventually expected to be starters and good players.

Remind me, who brought in these players. I’ll hang up and wait for the answer that never arrives.

 

[cometclear]

Remind me, who brought in these players. I’ll hang up and wait for the answer that never arrives.

Must've been the ghost of some other deplorable coach. I think his name was Kevin R. O'Carmodysong.

Now, you need to get in line here with the groupthink. Chop, chop. Remember, this forum lives by the Lake Wobegon motto: All kids (recruits) are above average. That is, until they want to leave. Then they were never really that good to begin with, though the current staff cannot be faulted for not recognizing that at the front end, of course.

 

[IGNORE]

Do you know anything about NU basketball beyond 5-10 years ago? Serious question.

Graduated in 92. Was there for Baldwin (most amazing shot ever - beats the Jordan right to left layup - changed hands on contested jumper and made it - will never forget) and Rankin. Have spent time w Doyle and Scott.

Know a bit about the days before my arrival. The Brysong thing was simply bizarre. Kinda something that I would expect from someone reading the rant board.

 

[Medill90]

Been a really rough day for me. And all the news from NU MBB isn’t helping. Correct me:

We have nine guys on schollie. None are proven star players. A couple seem to be serviceable role players. Of the three returning frosh, none really stood out like we have seen on past teams. We have some highly rated recruits, but a history of highly rated recruits not working out.

Most of the primary transfer targets are out of the picture.

We have schollies to boot. Transfers, coaching changes, snubs by the kids of alums. But we danced several years ago.

Someone tell me what intelligent, Northwestern educated based reason there is to be optimistic about this program today.

Lara left.

Hang in there buddy

 

[mikewebb68]

Must've been the ghost of some other deplorable coach. I think his name was Kevin R. O'Carmodysong.

Now, you need to get in line here with the groupthink. Chop, chop. Remember, this forum lives by the Lake Wobegon motto: All kids (recruits) are above average. That is, until they want to leave. Then they were never really that good to begin with, though the current staff cannot be faulted for not recognizing that at the front end, of course.

Must really hurt that CC, despite all these alleged recruiting misses, has still managed to finish out of the bottom-4 in the BIG as many times in 6 years as Carmody did in--wait for it--THIRTEEN FRIGGIN YEARS! This can mean only one thing-- Carmody sucks!

 

[mikewebb68]

Graduated in 92. Was there for Baldwin (most amazing shot ever - beats the Jordan right to left layup - changed hands on contested jumper and made it - will never forget) and Rankin. Have spent time w Doyle and Scott.

Know a bit about the days before my arrival. The Brysong thing was simply bizarre. Kinda something that I would expect from someone reading the rant board.

Uh, he was replying to Torque. Did my original response to your post cheer you up at all?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Been a really rough day for me. And all the news from NU MBB isn’t helping. Correct me:

We have nine guys on schollie. None are proven star players. A couple seem to be serviceable role players. Of the three returning frosh, none really stood out like we have seen on past teams. We have some highly rated recruits, but a history of highly rated recruits not working out.

Most of the primary transfer targets are out of the picture.

We have schollies to boot. Transfers, coaching changes, snubs by the kids of alums. But we danced several years ago.

Someone tell me what intelligent, Northwestern educated based reason there is to be optimistic about this program today.

Lara left.

Bob, Sorry to hear about Lara. Sounds like you and cometclear would get along great.

 

[EagerFan]

Pessimists may be more often right, but Optimists have more fun.

Enjoy the journey, imho.

 

[mikewebb68]

Bob, Sorry to hear about Lara. Sounds like you and cometclear would get along great.

Ugh: totally missed that. Sorry to hear about Lara as well.

 

[NJCat]

Ugh: totally missed that. Sorry to hear about Lara as well.

Sad for Bob, but probably happy for Lara.....

 

[torque-cat]

Do you know anything about NU basketball beyond 5-10 years ago? Serious question.

Yes much longer. Mid 90s onward. Why, Wanna quiz me?

 

[torque-cat]

Ok. If you say so. Let’s save and revisit. Which pisses off a bunch of you. Why should you be held to your aggressive statements in the future. Cheers. Waiting for time to pass.

I don’t consider these “aggressive” statements it’s funny you do. I consider them reasonably optimistic. I’m a fan and try to enjoy when things are good, look on the bright side when we hit a rough patch and not take the game too seriously. If I’m wrong and we suck forever I’ll still sleep fine. But I genuinely do see the positives in the program and also recognize that we will have ups and downs. If all I cared about was winning I’d root for Duke.

 

[Catfanincolo]

Let's see, five transfers over the past year and a half and the destinations of these transfers? Colgate, Grand Canyon St., Southern Illinois, Quinnipiac and, I guess, Northern Illinois. Whoops, six. To where did Vassar transfer? A couple of those players are probably D-2 players, in reality.

Those destinations tell you a lot. Either scouting is sub-par, player development is sub-par, or both. Mind you, at least three of those players were eventually expected to be starters and good players.

Vassar went to Tennessee Tech.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Sad for Bob, but probably happy for Lara.....

I hope Bob is OK. He has gone radio silent.

 

[mikewebb68]

I hope Bob is OK. He has gone radio silent.

He was on here liking posts as late as 1pm central yesterday, but yes I hope so as well...

 

[IGNORE]

I don’t consider these “aggressive” statements it’s funny you do. I consider them reasonably optimistic. I’m a fan and try to enjoy when things are good, look on the bright side when we hit a rough patch and not take the game too seriously. If I’m wrong and we suck forever I’ll still sleep fine. But I genuinely do see the positives in the program and also recognize that we will have ups and downs. If all I cared about was winning I’d root for Duke.

If you read your message to me, then you should see the aggression. Labeling me is the equivalent of name calling. And it’s aggressive. And if that’s your play, I have thick skin. Just don’t turn into one of those snowflakes around here that can stir it up but can’t handle the heat.

 

[IGNORE]

I hope Bob is OK. He has gone radio silent.

I’m ok. Not a great time and not online a ton. This to will pass.

 

[willycat]

If you read your message to me, then you should see the aggression. Labeling me is the equivalent of name calling. And it’s aggressive. And if that’s your play, I have thick skin. Just don’t turn into one of those snowflakes around here that can stir it up but can’t handle the heat.

Mostly enjoy your informative posts but stop with the trump like "snowflake" crap.

 

[IGNORE]

Mostly enjoy your informative posts but stop with the trump like "snowflake" crap.

Ok boss

 

[torque-cat]

If you read your message to me, then you should see the aggression. Labeling me is the equivalent of name calling. And it’s aggressive. And if that’s your play, I have thick skin. Just don’t turn into one of those snowflakes around here that can stir it up but can’t handle the heat.

I did call you a glass is half empty guy. That’s how you show up to me on these boards. If you are an upbeat, positive dude in real life that’s great. If you want to call me a Pollyanna I guess that would be the equivalent comeback.

 

[IGNORE]

I did call you a glass is half empty guy. That’s how you show up to me on these boards. If you are an upbeat, positive dude in real life that’s great. If you want to call me a Pollyanna I guess that would be the equivalent comeback.

Go back a few years and find some posts from the season of the Dance. I was pretty upbeat then. Flying around watching the Cats and checking out other stadiums.

 

[torque-cat]

Go back a few years and find some posts from the season of the Dance. I was pretty upbeat then. Flying around watching the Cats and checking out other stadiums.

It’s easy to see positives when everything is good. And I appreciate that you are at least willing to point out things that are not working with the program—I recently got a bit vilified for simply pointing out a concern so I get that part. It’s just that your overall tone seems to be anger, frustration, negativity instead of seeing some positives even when things aren’t going great.

 

[willycat]

Ok boss

Thank you.

 

[IGNORE]

It’s easy to see positives when everything is good. And I appreciate that you are at least willing to point out things that are not working with the program—I recently got a bit vilified for simply pointing out a concern so I get that part. It’s just that your overall tone seems to be anger, frustration, negativity instead of seeing some positives even when things aren’t going great.

Not going great is understating. And sitting around singing Kum-by-la is boring. I like to analyze, debate, discuss. We can’t change anything but I enjoy the discussion.

 

[torque-cat]

Not going great is understating. And sitting around singing Kum-by-la is boring. I like to analyze, debate, discuss. We can’t change anything but I enjoy the discussion.

Agreed. I love the discussion too. Which players or recruits are you most excited about?

 

[IGNORE]

Agreed. I love the discussion too. Which players or recruits are you most excited about?

I think it’s overly zealous to get too excited about any recruits until they play. We seem to anoint every recruit as the next great player setting up unreasonable expectations.

I let myself get suckered back into that w Nance last preseason. You may recall I regularly predicted him to start by B1G season, being so acclaimed. So I think I will wait and see.

As for existing players, none have shown me anything to get excited about. None of the frosh stepped in and established they are the next Shurna. I’m glad Gaines has improved. I think like Nash, he has become a legit B1G rotation guy.

And Kopp, well like Hachad, he had good moments and bad moments and lots of invisible moments.

The rest haven’t shown me anything, hope they do. But I don’t think they are being set up for success playing on such an undersized roster (number of players, not physical size - though the roster does seem small) and likely out of natural position often.

I think Nance, as raw as he appeared, really needed a roster that would have allowed him to redshirt and develop during practice time. And I think dragging Greer in early was a mistake - he was too small in stature to play in the B1G as a rookie. If anything he needs all the time in the world to fill out. He should have come in this coming year and then sat out as he grew physically and prepared for the physicality through practice time.

So, there’s not much for me to be excited about if I’m going to look at everything rationally and in a fashion that a normal, non NU college MBB fan wouldn’t think that I’m a simple NU homer.

Doesn’t mean I won’t root for the team - though I probably wouldn’t try to see any games in person. And I hope we find a way to land some quality players to complete the next class and fill out the next one.

But in my mind, CCC’s grace period is over. I expect something tangible on the floor. Maybe not wins and losses this year, but some players to emerge and give hope. If it’s a starless season, recruit ratings be damned, I will become more vocal that the search for the next coach needs to begin.

 

[catstime16]

I feel Pete Nance is a perfect example of "The State" of the program. By most
accounts, Pete at 6'9 played as a wing for a very suburban school in a very avg. H.S. league.
Coupled with PN playing on a lower level off-season squad he is truly a developmental
guy (aren't we all?). Pete has tools (long, athletic & bright) but needs time to develop his
body/game vs. BigTen caliber talent, which BTW is fine. It looks as though next year will be
a "work in progress" season so patience, again, will be needed (Ugghhh). Staring four 6'6
guys ("position less" bball??) that all do the same typething is generally not a recipe for success.
I also believe Pete is a bright hard working kid who will put in the work and develop into
a solid, competitive player whom we all will be rooting for!

 

[torque-cat]

I think it’s overly zealous to get too excited about any recruits until they play. We seem to anoint every recruit as the next great player setting up unreasonable expectations.

I let myself get suckered back into that w Nance last preseason. You may recall I regularly predicted him to start by B1G season, being so acclaimed. So I think I will wait and see.

As for existing players, none have shown me anything to get excited about. None of the frosh stepped in and established they are the next Shurna. I’m glad Gaines has improved. I think like Nash, he has become a legit B1G rotation guy.

And Kopp, well like Hachad, he had good moments and bad moments and lots of invisible moments.

The rest haven’t shown me anything, hope they do. But I don’t think they are being set up for success playing on such an undersized roster (number of players, not physical size - though the roster does seem small) and likely out of natural position often.

I think Nance, as raw as he appeared, really needed a roster that would have allowed him to redshirt and develop during practice time. And I think dragging Greer in early was a mistake - he was too small in stature to play in the B1G as a rookie. If anything he needs all the time in the world to fill out. He should have come in this coming year and then sat out as he grew physically and prepared for the physicality through practice time.

So, there’s not much for me to be excited about if I’m going to look at everything rationally and in a fashion that a normal, non NU college MBB fan wouldn’t think that I’m a simple NU homer.

Doesn’t mean I won’t root for the team - though I probably wouldn’t try to see any games in person. And I hope we find a way to land some quality players to complete the next class and fill out the next one.

But in my mind, CCC’s grace period is over. I expect something tangible on the floor. Maybe not wins and losses this year, but some players to emerge and give hope. If it’s a starless season, recruit ratings be damned, I will become more vocal that the search for the next coach needs to begin.

I agree that fans tend to annoint recruits as the next savior. We look at the most favorable ratings rather than the average (though 247 composite helps) and we forget that guys ranked 75-125 are almost par for the course in the big ten. That said, I am excited about Nance's upside, particularly if he can put on muscle and is a really hard worker. Kopp has some positives but needs to show me a more consistent jumpshot, from which I think his confidence in other areas will grow. I was pleasantly surprised by Greer but he may have some physical limitations--though I'd like the team set up plays to open him up from 3, because he has a nice looking shot and I read was 49% from 3 in high school. I don't know enough about the new guys yet. Gaines is a beast but can't shoot--if he became a 35% 3 pt shooter I think he could be all big ten based on defense, toughness, rebounding, hustle.

 

[hdhntr1]

I’m ok. Not a great time and not online a ton. This to will pass.

And it will come back again and again unfortunately