SupEr Conference talks have resumed. You were warned.

[zeek55]

They would have joined the B1G as the 12th team if they were going to. Instead we got Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers. Not exactly a murderer’s row.

ND didn't join the Big Ten because we were just a Midwest conference, they didn't want to be the 12th team in that formulation.

ND plays 7 games in South Bend every year, their hope was that the other 5 would mostly be outside the Midwest.

That can happen in a 20 team Big Ten with 8 East Coast teams if it comes down to that.

 

[Titanium999]

Pro basketball and football is lucrative and kids want to play early. May be best for college football to just have a pro league like hoops, and keep institutional control over players. 😀

 

[curdog]

Sorry for the confusion.

The B1G is most likely to simply add Kansas and ISU. This is the most likely outcome from what my buddy told me.

If the "super conference" emerges, NU could form a next-level elite academic conference. If we truly value student athletes, I personally feel this will be the best outcome. I can share what that would currently look like if you'd like, but we'd certainly be playing Illinois / Duke / Stanford / UVA / Boston College / the rest with regularity.

I thought you were full of it and now I know you are. The BIG is not adding Iowa st. Full stop

 

[rwhitney014]

If they are not giving scholarships because schools is no longer part of the equation as they are paid instead, no title 9. It says they have to have equal numbers of scholarships but if there are none for FB.... Either have to get rid of a lot of women's sports or add a lot of men's But without the revenue sources that FB provides...

Incorrect.

Fascinating legal questions. Perhaps some of our board lawyers could chime in.

Title IX is very simple: "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

It is not a statement that applies only to athletic scholarships. It applies to opportunities provided to students, regardless of gender, at exactly what it says: "any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance." It is not a statement that applies only to athletics; it applies with equal force to student housing, healthcare, academics, student loans. It touches every component of the campus experience.

The Ivy League does not offer athletic scholarships. Their schools still must comply with Title IX. Division III doesn't offer athletic scholarships. By and large, their schools still must comply with Title IX.

Pretty much every college and university in this country receives federal funds in one form or another. Most offer FAFSA, for instance; that means they have to comply with Title IX. If a school is one of the few that doesn't take federal funding (Hillsdale College in Michigan, an NCAA D-II school, might be the most prominent one, and it's generally schools in that vein), then it doesn't have to comply with Title IX.

So, if the football programs are decoupled from the institutions in the way discussed ITT, the schools still have to comply with Title IX. It would likely take courts to weigh in on whether those football slots count or not, which would likely be a fact-intensive inquiry as to whether the programs are truly an independent operation. It might force schools to sell the real estate and properties housing stadiums and facilities, fire all of the coaches and operations staff involved (and, ostensibly, use those people to restart separate business entities to operate the programs), and otherwise thoroughly divorce themselves from any tie whatsoever. Courts are likely to rule against the schools if there's any semblance of an attempt simply to disguise programs as for-profit businesses deriving any benefit from their statuses as nonprofit universities (Liberty as an exception there).

The short answer is: we don't know how this would work. But courts don't like attempts to fudge things in an effort to evade statutory and financial obligations that would otherwise exist. If there's a reasonable way to construe the programs as part of the university, my guess is that courts would rule that way. But if they don't, players would all gain employee status, pretty much immediately unionize and force the teams to collectively bargain. We know the schools don't want to do that, and that would represent a huge offset of the additional revenue they would create from this arrangement. They would also have to pay taxes in a way differently than they do now. If this professional Superconference thing happens, it will completely change the paradigm. Anything is possible, but it's not a quick snap of the fingers. There are a lot of layers that people much smarter than we are will have to unpeel.

 

[DaCat]

A lot of wasted energy here.

 

[Katatonic]

Sorry for the confusion.

The B1G is most likely to simply add Kansas and ISU. This is the most likely outcome from what my buddy told me.

If the "super conference" emerges, NU could form a next-level elite academic conference. If we truly value student athletes, I personally feel this will be the best outcome. I can share what that would currently look like if you'd like, but we'd certainly be playing Illinois / Duke / Stanford / UVA / Boston College / the rest with regularity.

Neither school adds much, esp. ISU as Iowa already covers that market.

Basically depends on whether Fox wants to get into a bidding war to prevent ESPN from controlling college football.

Would Fox be willing to pony up some serious cash to pull the cream of the ACC to join the B1G?

 

[CatManTrue]

Says who?

ND is not joining ACC without Texas or something else helping boost the value of the conference.

ACC contract is the worst among the Power 5. That isn't changing, and no reason for ND to tie itself permanently to that albatross.

Just wait for next Big Ten contract.

When is the next ACC contract due to be negotiated? When was the last one inked? (I honestly don’t know. I tend to track the B1G and that alone.)

 

[CatManTrue]

A lot of wasted energy here.

On internet message boards in general? I tend to agree.

 

[CatManTrue]

Neither school adds much, esp. ISU as Iowa already covers that market.

Basically depends on whether Fox wants to get into a bidding war to prevent ESPN from controlling college football.

Would Fox be willing to pony up some serious cash to pull the cream of the ACC to join the B1G?

Not sure how desperate Fox is for sports ratings or or if they want a bidding war over this. But ESPN clearly is desperate based on past events, and also if they’re willing to pay a $76M “entry fee” for the SuperConference-lite (SEC + OU + TX).

Adding the rest of the college football powers and removing the smaller draws should print cash for as long as college football is popular. And it’s either happening now or in the next decade as other TV deals expire.

 

[zeek55]

When is the next ACC contract due to be negotiated? When was the last one inked? (I honestly don’t know. I tend to track the B1G and that alone.)

2036 is expiration of ACC contract.

ACC will likely try to negotiate it in 2031-2032 to prevent poaching, but the Big Ten will likely try to poach the ACC around 2031-2032.

 

[CatManTrue]

2036 is expiration of ACC contract.

ACC will likely try to negotiate it in 2031-2032 to prevent poaching, but the Big Ten will likely try to poach the ACC around 2031-2032.

Wow, that is an awful contract. I just texted with my buddy and he wants to talk live tonight or tomorrow morning. Will report back if there are any solid updates from the ongoing talks.

 

[Katatonic]

Not sure how desperate Fox is for sports ratings or or if they want a bidding war over this. But ESPN clearly is desperate based on past events, and also if they’re willing to pay a $76M “entry fee” for the SuperConference-lite (SEC + OU + TX).

Adding the rest of the college football powers and removing the smaller draws should print cash for as long as college football is popular. And it’s either happening now or in the next decade as other TV deals expire.

Fox has already invested quite a bit in CFB via a 51% ownership of BTN and FS1 having acquired rights to broadcast games for the B1G, B12 and PAC.

If Fox does nothing, it will see the value of those investments decrease, or at the very least, not rise in value to the level they want.

If the B1G can swallow up most of the ACC, that would give BTN a foothold all along the Atlantic coast to the midwest.

BTN can then move to an on-demand model and/or pressure cable/sat providers to increase carriage rates.

 

[zeek55]

Fox has already invested quite a bit in CFB via a 51% ownership of BTN and FS1 having acquired rights to broadcast games for the B1G, B12 and PAC.

If Fox does nothing, it will see the value of those investments decrease, or at the very least, not rise in value to the level they want.

Exactly, and for FOX, the value of their Big 12 contract has collapsed with them losing TX/OU. The whole point of their Big 12 contract was to get games with Texas/OU on the main broadcast network.

If you're Fox, you should consider just saying "okay we'll go all in with Big Ten and help them grab some good schools from the ACC" to compete with the SEC.

 

[Katatonic]

Yep, they won't have to pay much for what's left of the B12 (if they're interested at all) and the PAC would also have a difficult time getting more $ for their broadcast rights.

Heck, if I were Fox, would tell the PAC to give up on their sports network and have them broadcast games on BTN (may need to change the name).

That way, BTN (or whatever it's called) can print $$ with the on-demand model.

 

[zeek55]

Yep, they won't have to pay much for what's left of the B12 (if they're interested at all) and the PAC would also have a difficult time getting more $ for their broadcast rights.

Heck, if I were Fox, would tell the PAC to give up on their sports network and have them broadcast games on BTN (may need to change the name).

That way, BTN (or whatever it's called) can print $$ with the on-demand model.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we see that as an eventual possible result, a combined conference network model. Big Ten/Pac-12 make the most sense (given we won't poach the Pac-12 in all likelihood).

 

[CatManTrue]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we see that as an eventual possible result, a combined conference network model. Big Ten/Pac-12 make the most sense (given we won't poach the Pac-12 in all likelihood).

Well I just got off the phone with my buddy. I told him I was skeptical given all of the stated concerns in this and other friends. It just so happened he was having drinks with his future father-in-law and a family friend who is also a big OSU booster. I googled them while we were chatting to check out their backgrounds and they were definitely Columbus bigwigs. So he's either pulling a major prank on me or there are some serious changes being discussed.

Here's the latest guidance and the current "ideal big school" outline for the new ESPN-driven conference.

• This obviously is getting pretty pricey for ESPN. But they're planning on featuring a lot of games on ESPN+ and increasing the subscription price to justify it, knowing that most of these fanbases will pay anything for more quality football games
• The ACC is OUT. They're locked up with their awful TV contracts up per @zeek55 's prescient points and not willing to think creative legally, so they're removed from the list.
• Notre Dame is also playing hardball, predictably. So they've been replaced by Indiana in order to pressure them.
• They're currently targeting 24 teams - meaning 11 conference games, 2 non-conference games (13 "regular season" to drive revenues), and a "Championship week" similar to what the B1G employed this season. The thinking is that these 14 games will justify the upfront costs and give them maximum negotiating power with the rest of the NCAA, should they choose to partake in a typical national championship
• The goal is to lock up as many large, big state school programs as possible now. USC is the one exception given their legacy and brand.

So here goes. Brace yourselves for the New World Order. All of the talks are tenuous and still double-secret, and this could result in a really compelling new conference for Northwestern and our true academic / athletic peers:

1. Alabama
2. OSU
3. Michigan
4. Penn State
5. Wisconsin
6. Oklahoma
7. Texas
8. Texas A&M
9. University of Florida
10. Georgia
11. Auburn
12. Oregon
13. USC
14. Arizona
15. Tennessee
16. South Carolina
17. LSU
18. Indiana (if ND opts in, the Hoosiers are understandably OUT)
19. Washington
20. Nebraska
21. Io_a
22. Michigan State (may be dropped for Ole Miss to appease the SEC powers if needed)
23. Missouri
24. Arkansas

I asked my buddy to come on here and verify this if he feels comfortable. The mods will know as it should come from an Ohio IP address. I don't know if he's comfortable posting on Rivals given Yahoo's tracking policies, but hopefully we'll get answers either way soon. Hopefully @Turk and his many connections in Ohio and Florida can verify some of this. His articles won't.

 

[Turk]

Been there, done that. Very hard to be competitive when Ohio State, Michigan, and Nebraska can stockpile good talent. It gets to be kind of ridiculous, there are kids riding the pine or only seeing garbage-time PT at those schools who would start for us. But the lure of (not actually) playing for a traditional power is more enticing than actually playing for a Northwestern, to a lot of HS players.

Didnt we see this years ago? Osu will stockpile because every player thinks he is a rock star and his parents confirm it.
The only thing saving NU might be the chicago market and jim phillips. Our revenue is maybe the bottom when ranking the bigten. Indiana or purdue revenue for football isnt great either but they blow us away in BB.

Whatever the case, the bigten will not be able to keep osu by tossing in iowa state, kansas or other big 12 leftovers.

The big will need to pull in clemson and stud programs. Expanding with teams that blow like rutgers and maryland hasnt set us up too good for what has to happen now.
Also, the recruiting scales just tipped monstrously to the sec.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Well I just got off the phone with my buddy. I told him I was skeptical given all of the stated concerns in this and other friends. It just so happened he was having drinks with his future father-in-law and a family friend who is also a big OSU booster. I googled them while we were chatting to check out their backgrounds and they were definitely Columbus bigwigs. So he's either pulling a major prank on me or there are some serious changes being discussed.

Here's the latest guidance and the current "ideal big school" outline for the new ESPN-driven conference.

• This obviously is getting pretty pricey for ESPN. But they're planning on featuring a lot of games on ESPN+ and increasing the subscription price to justify it, knowing that most of these fanbases will pay anything for more quality football games
• The ACC is OUT. They're locked up with their awful TV contracts up per @zeek55 's prescient points and not willing to think creative legally, so they're removed from the list.
• Notre Dame is also playing hardball, predictably. So they've been replaced by Indiana in order to pressure them.
• They're currently targeting 24 teams - meaning 11 conference games, 2 non-conference games (13 "regular season" to drive revenues), and a "Championship week" similar to what the B1G employed this season. The thinking is that these 14 games will justify the upfront costs and give them maximum negotiating power with the rest of the NCAA, should they choose to partake in a typical national championship
• The goal is to lock up as many large, big state school programs as possible now. USC is the one exception given their legacy and brand.

So here goes. Brace yourselves for the New World Order. All of the talks are tenuous and still double-secret, and this could result in a really compelling new conference for Northwestern and our true academic / athletic peers:

1. Alabama
2. OSU
3. Michigan
4. Penn State
5. Wisconsin
6. Oklahoma
7. Texas
8. Texas A&M
9. University of Florida
10. Georgia
11. Auburn
12. Oregon
13. USC
14. Arizona
15. Tennessee
16. South Carolina
17. LSU
18. Indiana (if ND opts in, the Hoosiers are understandably OUT)
19. Washington
20. Nebraska
21. Io_a
22. Michigan State (may be dropped for Ole Miss to appease the SEC powers if needed)
23. Missouri
24. Arkansas

I asked my buddy to come on here and verify this if he feels comfortable. The mods will know as it should come from an Ohio IP address. I don't know if he's comfortable posting on Rivals given Yahoo's tracking policies, but hopefully we'll get answers either way soon. Hopefully @Turk and his many connections in Ohio and Florida can verify some of this. His articles won't.

The difference is, people actually believed PURPLE Book Cat.

 

[cattul]

…this could result in a really compelling new conference for Northwestern and our true academic / athletic peers.

Endless games against BC and Duke in the new “Summa Cum League” might not be as compelling as you suspect.

A scenario like that is tantamount to relegation to the AAC.

 

[tigerjl]

OK, so I got the green light from my buddy to share this on here. I will be scarce with details on who he is and why he knows, but we've been talking for months about this concept and things are coming to a head.

The most likeliest outcome is "mostly status quo". The Big Ten will likely add two former Big Ten 'powers' (likely Kansas and Iowa State), and the SEC is of course favored to add Oklahoma & Texas. The ACC can add WVU if they want and is the odds on favorite for Notre Dame to join, but ND may fight it until the bitter end. My buddy and I discussed the probability of this happening and its 60-70%. Higher if you count on only the B1G and SEC changes.

Here's where it gets interesting: OSU has been pivotal in discussions for a 24 team "Super Conference". The previous rumor about them replacing Vanderbilt in the SEC was just to test the waters, but it wasn't far off. This change was accelerated by a few factors: namely NIL legislation, the lack of leadership by certain conference leaders during COVID, and the need to maximize revenues out of the 'name college football programs'.

Here are the 24 teams that my buddy read out to me. I scrambled to write them down on a napkin - and my handwriting isn't that great - but here goes. I can share my thoughts on why this will benefit NU, but we're not included in the "New SEC" (mega-conference).

There will be four six team 'divisions' of the conference. Each team will face two of the three other divisional opponents each season, and each would be allowed two or three non-conference games to schedule however they see fit. There will be a two-round playoff to determine the national champion from this new conference and the Super Conference will own all the TV and internet revenues. Here's what I wrote down:

1. Alabama
2. Clemson
3. OSU
4. Michigan
5. Penn State
6. Wisconsin
7. Oklahoma
8. Texas
9. Texas A&M
10. University of Florida
11. Florida State University
12. Georgia
13. Auburn
14. Oregon
15. USC
16. Arizona
17. Tennessee
18. South Carolina
19. LSU
20. Notre Dame
21. Washington
22. Virginia Tech
23. Nebraska
24. Io_a OR Michigan State

...the last school names were painful to write. If you're upset about this as a NU fan, well we'll still compete in our own regard. I'm hoping that NU can play Iowa, Wisconsin, and either Michigan school on a regular basis. It's unclear how this super-conference will exist with the rest of the "NCAA" but it will all work out.

There was some discussion of an "All Academic" conference which we would be regularly favored in. If so, maybe it can keep the Big Ten moniker and we'll win it more often. Or maybe we'll just add Kansas & ISU to the B1G. But one thing's for certain: things will be changing.

LMAO at UofSC being in the Super 24.

 

[cattul]

The difference is, people actually believed PURPLE Book Cat.

Oh, this is no more preposterous than anything else flying around the net, right now. FUD and FOMO have overtaken the college football world.

 

[CatManTrue]

LMAO at UofSC being in the Super 24.

Who else will capture the massive Southern California market?

 

[CatManTrue]

The difference is, people actually believed PURPLE Book Cat.

Texas and OU were never joining the B1G. They played the rest of the Big 12 like a fiddle to get what they wanted. If you had a Rock subscription you’d know this.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Texas and OU were never joining the B1G. They played the rest of the Big 12 like a fiddle to get what they wanted. If you had a Rock subscription you’d know this.

I really don't care. It's just an observation.

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

The difference is, people actually believed PURPLE Book Cat.

Not that I ever said they should

 

[zeek55]

Didnt we see this years ago? Osu will stockpile because every player thinks he is a rock star and his parents confirm it.
The only thing saving NU might be the chicago market and jim phillips. Our revenue is maybe the bottom when ranking the bigten. Indiana or purdue revenue for football isnt great either but they blow us away in BB.

Whatever the case, the bigten will not be able to keep osu by tossing in iowa state, kansas or other big 12 leftovers.

The big will need to pull in clemson and stud programs. Expanding with teams that blow like rutgers and maryland hasnt set us up too good for what has to happen now.
Also, the recruiting scales just tipped monstrously to the sec.

What's "saving" us is we're a charter member of the Big Ten with great academics/location and willingness to spend to compete (a half billion in donations towards athletics programs and probably another $300-400 million coming for a stadium renovation).

The same thing "saving" Vanderbilt in the SEC.

The big powers still need to win most of their games, they don't want to play in an NFL where they would all have to average out to 0.500.

They want to have their cake and eat it too; they want to be in conferences where a half the teams bring markets/academic standing/etc., while also playing with another 5-6 big brand names.


A Power 2 of Big Ten/SEC with 32-38 teams is much more palatable than a single NFL-lite 20 team group of biggest brands.

That's why the SEC works for OU/Texas. There's plenty of teams they'd expect to beat every year along with the Alabama/Florida/Georgia/LSU/A&M/Auburn tier of schools.

At the end of the day other private schools (like those in the Pac-12 and ACC and of course Big 12) have much more to worry about being relegated/left behind.

 

[dmaw]

Consolidation of the biggest brands in college football is inevitable. Idk if it happens now, but someday soon.

 

[CatManTrue]

What's "saving" us is we're a charter member of the Big Ten with great academics/location and willingness to spend to compete (a half billion in donations towards athletics programs and probably another $300-400 million coming for a stadium renovation).

The same thing "saving" Vanderbilt in the SEC.

The big powers still need to win most of their games, they don't want to play in an NFL where they would all have to average out to 0.500.

They want to have their cake and eat it too; they want to be in conferences where a half the teams bring markets/academic standing/etc., while also playing with another 5-6 big brand names.


A Power 2 of Big Ten/SEC with 32-38 teams is much more palatable than a single NFL-lite 20 team group of biggest brands.

That's why the SEC works for OU/Texas. There's plenty of teams they'd expect to beat every year along with the Alabama/Florida/Georgia/LSU/A&M/Auburn tier of schools.

At the end of the day other private schools (like those in the Pac-12 and ACC and of course Big 12) have much more to worry about being relegated/left behind.

There’s a lot of logic here and you may be right. But programs like OSU are thinking 20 years ahead. That’s what this 24 superconference represents, particularly when the average Joe cares much less about the NFL’s minor league.

 

[StreamCat]

Quoth CatManTrue: “The goal is to lock up as many large, big state school programs as possible now. USC is the one exception given their legacy and brand.“


Besides, USC is not a state school.

 

[CatManTrue]

Not that I ever said they should

Here is your chance to redeem yourself PBC.

What are you hearing from your buddy in Chicago? Will the Big Ten try to add two of Kansas / ISU / OSU to survive?

Or will the power teams jump ship as my buddy is strongly suggesting, allowing NU to be the founding member of the NAO (New Academic Order)?

 

[CatManTrue]

Quoth CatManTrue: “The goal is to lock up as many large, big state school programs as possible now. USC is the one exception given their legacy and brand.“


Besides, USC is not a state school.

Huh? You’re agreeing with my buddy. USC is not a state school but easily the strongest brand in California.

From what I’m hearing, Cal / Stanford / UCLA will be happy to join the super-Ivy League (NAC) with NU, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Purdue, Illannoy, Georgia Tech, Duke, Baylor, Pitt, Virginia, Syracuse, Miami (FL), and MAYBE Rice to form the conference all of us Nerdwesterners have always wanted.

The best of academics and athletics combined. You read it here first, friendo.

 

[StreamCat]

Huh? You’re agreeing with my buddy. USC is not a state school but easily the strongest brand in California.

From what I’m hearing, Cal / Stanford / UCLA will be happy to join the super-Ivy League (NAC) with NU, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Purdue, Illannoy, Georgia Tech, Duke, Baylor, Pitt, Virginia, Syracuse, Miami (FL), and MAYBE Rice to form the conference all of us Nerdwesterners have always wanted.

The best of academics and athletics combined. You read it here first, friendo.

Reread your wording.

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

Here is your chance to redeem yourself PBC.

What are you hearing from your buddy in Chicago? Will the Big Ten try to add two of Kansas / ISU / OSU to survive?

Or will the power teams jump ship as my buddy is strongly suggesting, allowing NU to be the founding member of the NAO (New Academic Order)?

Redeem myself? That’s funny.

 

[zeek55]

There’s a lot of logic here and you may be right. But programs like OSU are thinking 20 years ahead. That’s what this 24 superconference represents, particularly when the average Joe cares much less about the NFL’s minor league.

Yeah it's hard to guess. Ultimately there is an argument for some NFL minor league where the big brand schools keep all the money to themselves, but tradition and regional differences may keep them all split up with most going to the SEC and perhaps the Big Ten if we poach some out of the ACC which would lead to a Power 2 or AFC/NFC situation where SEC and Big Ten would make most of the rules and those 2 conferences would keep most of the money in cfb.

It's just hard to imagine Ohio State and Michigan wanting to go from running their own massive league to just being another 2 players in a NFL lite.

I don't dismiss the possibility of it happening though.

 

[CatManTrue]

Redeem myself? That’s funny.

People from this board believed that nonsense that you posted. I was clearly never one of them, but many of your fellow NU brethren fell for that silly business about two teams from Oklahoma and Texas travelling up to Minneapolis and Happy Valley for jaunts in the snow.

Anyone who knows anything knew it was made up. What do you have to report now about the New World Order of elite college football? If your “source” has dried up, you can at least admit that.

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

People from this board believed that nonsense that you posted. I was clearly never one of them, but many of your fellow NU brethren fell for that silly business about two teams from Oklahoma and Texas travelling up to Minneapolis and Happy Valley for jaunts in the snow.

Anyone who knows anything knew it was made up. What do you have to report now about the New World Order of elite college football? If your “source” has dried up, you can at least admit that.

I no longer have any connection - via the Chicago 2016 Olympic Bid Committee, of which I was a staff member - or otherwise. Moreover, the posts I made resulted in legal action and forced statements.

 

[Deeringfish]

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. They are making money hand over fist and they want to reduce their market by 75%. Good luck with that.

 

[CatManTrue]

I no longer have any connection - via the Chicago 2016 Olympic Bid Committee, of which I was a staff member - or otherwise. Moreover, the posts I made resulted in legal action and forced statements.

Sorry to hear you had to deal all that. It’s a good thing that everything I’ve posted has been pure heresay. I’m fairly certain that my buddy’s been shining me on to get my mind off of stuff. But it’s fun to speculate about.

 

[SoCalTigr]

Can the ACC schools get out of the Jefferson Pilot contract?

 

[FeralFelidae]

Can the ACC schools get out of the Jefferson Pilot contract?

Does the Jefferson Pilot the Jefferson Airplane?