Takeaways: Barnhizer dominates in 71-60 win over Georgia Tech after losing front teeth
- Thread starter lou v
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The point is the idea of firing him was misplaced when you looked beyond just W/L. I spent years supporting a position that things were not as bad when you looked deeper, and was ultimately supported, per PWB’s earlier comment. It was not because of some inherent bias toward CCC; I just was inclined to believe in him based on what my eyes were seeing, and the data also backed it up.
I didn't want to seem overly optimistic and I couldn't figure out how many games we had to play to win the Big Ten tournament AND the NCAA tournament, so I just figured we win the next 20, then win the Big Ten tournament before eventually losing in the NCAA.
I did like the 19-1 Big Ten record, but the "4" in the overall loss column threw me.
The Allstate year was a failure. It should’ve been a tournament-caliber team, no doubt about it. But injuries, egos, and the lack of a true home court just wrecked everything. When you look at the expectations versus the reality of that season, it was probably the worst outcome for what should have been a promising team. And honestly, that’s probably Collin’s worst year as a coach.
Now, you know, after that, there was gonna be a drop-off anyway. That’s just part of the cycle in building a program. You lose your core players (sans Law) from that first tournament team, and suddenly, you’re left scrambling for Starting Big Ten-level talent. Outside of Pardon, we didn’t land that caliber of player, and some of that comes down to Collin being a younger coach, and of course, the challenges NU’s historically faced, academics, lack of history, all of it.
But after that rough patch, we started seeing some real progress. We brought in a solid class that contributed to competitive teams. Then, boom, we get the GOAT, and things started clicking, the results showed gradual improvement.
Then came the ultimatum. It hurt some recruiting momentum, and the losing during the rebuild didn’t help either. But with hits on on four strong recruiting classes in a row It gave us a real shot at making a third straight tournament this year, which is huge. Just some questions about the sophomore class which could leave a hole in the team next year. 2/3 left at NU. Neither has played a ton of meaningful minutes yet, or project to this season. We shall see how it turns out.
You, and you alone, agree with you.
By any metric unrelated to participation trophies, he was a terrible coach at that point. His ship was sinking. Whether you want to attribute Gagg to motivating the changes is subject to debate.
But any right minded athletic director would have sent him packing.
Now, he could have left, found this same Jesus and rebuilt his coaching reputation at another school. I am pretty sure that history has such examples. But CCC sucked at the time Gagg ridiculed him.
It takes insight and courage to stand behind a coach when the superficial metrics look as bad as they did for Coach Collins. Gordie was right while those of us that took the easy way and called for Coach Collins' firing were wrong. Whether it was based on money, an inept AD or whatever, the decision to keep Coach Collins following the 2021-2022 season was the right one. Gordie has rightfully taken a few victory laps for this, and as long as we keep winning, he can take as many more as he damn well pleases.
I would just like to point out that I was right there with Gordie all along in thinking CCC should be retained and, in fact, I predicted the two NCAA appearances.
(The fact that I am absolutely lying is irrelevant as this is the way history is done these days....)
It seems possible to think both that Collins was a bit of a dumpster fire and also that it wasn't yet time to replace him. After the Allstate experience, he seemed to be settling into Carmody-like results. Seven total conference wins in two years would make any fan a bit itchy, right? And then he moved the team back into that 6 to 7 wins a year world we'd gotten used to previously.
Things have worked out pretty well the last few years tho, so I'm sure we're all glad he stayed. I suggest that a lot of elements came into play beyond the 'ultimatum', and I suspect one of the bigger positive changes was bringing in Battle and the impact he had on Boo's everything. In a few decades, when Collins pens his memoirs, maybe we'll find out what went on in the room where it happened.
It's interesting stuff to think about objectively if you can get past some of the personal emotionally driven content here.
Things have worked out pretty well the last few years tho, so I'm sure we're all glad he stayed. I suggest that a lot of elements came into play beyond the 'ultimatum', and I suspect one of the bigger positive changes was bringing in Battle and the impact he had on Boo's everything. In a few decades, when Collins pens his memoirs, maybe we'll find out what went on in the room where it happened.
It's interesting stuff to think about objectively if you can get past some of the personal emotionally driven content here.
It’s taken you a long time but congratulations on quintupling down and digging your CCC and Gordie hate hole further. Some saw the light when examining the situation deeper; you did not, and it appears it’s impossible for you to admit it, so you keep digging.
If we can agree on anything - can we agree to stop discussing Collins’ past?
Thanks, @PURPLECAT88. I have no reason to want to take victory laps. I just would like to believe that sometimes, every one of us can draw a poor conclusion, and we should not feel any reluctance to not admit it, learn and move on.
Going 11-7 vs. 7-11 is not that different. Some clutch players hitting shots and free throws and getting stops.
We can absolutely to agree on that. I have held my tongue when you have revisited this topic many times as I was content to enjoy the winning. But you have been unrentless. So you won’t see me touch it again if you won’t either.
Yeah, Goldie was the most ardent CCC supporter, he wasn’t the only CCC supporter!
You guys sound like you are on your sixth beer at a bar on Howard.
If you need something else to talk about, what is the team going to look like next year without development of the two young players this year?
If you need something else to talk about, what is the team going to look like next year without development of the two young players this year?
If Mart comes back - which he should - NBA won’t be a real option and he could have nil and be THE man here - that’s one big piece.
Hunger slides in for MN - and I think will be fine. More O and less D but workable on both ends.
Gelo gets first bite at the three.
Everything else is wide open. Lots of potential already here with a strong recruiting class. Next year could be the dip year as we go from quite old to quite young.
Be interesting to see who they bring in on the transfer wire. Pretty sure we will have one spot plus the rumored roster expansions.
I don’t care about next year now! We are likely a bubble team this year, but we have a shot to dance this year. Ride your horses.
I think Collins may be shopping for a big via the portal, enabling him to hopefully redshirt Brennerman. Another wing would be good too.
I think it’s also fair to point out that Boo went from a pretty good offensive player in his junior year to a great player in his senior year and Audige went from a terrible offensive player in his junior year to a pretty good offensive player in his senior year. I don’t think Lowery had that much to do with that. I have been a broken record on this but in Nance’s senior year, the team was very competitive and lost a bunch of close games in the last few minutes. If they had just hit clutch free throws, they would have been .500 in the conference. Put senior Audige and Buie on that team and they win some of those close games. Audige shot 25 percent from 3 and 33 percent from the field in his junior year. And he was battling a back injury and was not as effective defensively. Lowery is great but we have won some very high scoring games because Boo or Audige took over down the stretch.
In a way, it's a lot like 1994 was for football (without the gambling, of course). Part of why 1995 was so special is because 1994 was NOT a particularly good year W/L wise, so the jump, when it happened, seemed way bigger than it was. 2022 was similar. We were very close to being good enough, but for whatever reason just couldn't make the jump. Then 2023, boom, it all came together.
I saw NU FB play at Penn State with their 80-100k fans or so in 1994 and NU gave them a tough game to my surprise. You could see this was a for real team even without the wins.
Hard to see next year’s team competing for a tournament spot with 5 first years coming in. Only one or two of those guys looks to be physically ready. We will need a transfer big and a transfer guard to have any shot at a tournament appearance.
Our experience has shown that we need three legitimate scoring options to compete, and at least one of those has to be a guard. I’m skeptical of Hunger being a consistent threat. We will miss Matt’s defense terribly next season.
Our experience has shown that we need three legitimate scoring options to compete, and at least one of those has to be a guard. I’m skeptical of Hunger being a consistent threat. We will miss Matt’s defense terribly next season.
The only way it really works is if NU makes the tourney for the third year in a row. Then NU really looks like a team that is on the rise, we get a a couple of blue-chip transfers for next year to pair with Martinelli and the youngsters, and if we somehow make the tourney NEXT year as well, we can maybe, MAYBE, start to think of NU as a team that Gonzaga was a generation ago and Duke a generation before that.
I agree Hungry, we need a center who can play defense as well as dunk next year
