The Dark Ages Return

[SpiroCAT]

Did anybody catch Dr. Jim sitting immediately behind the UNC bench last night? He was such an involved AD at NU and did a lot to make athletes feel at home and to succeed. I feel we have traded a 5 star AD for someone who has just disappeared into the wall paper. Likewise, Morty is gone and I have no idea what the new President thinks about sports, or if they even think about sports.

Honestly, I just despair over the revenue sports right now at NU. The decision to keep Collins for 1-2 more years is just putting off the inevitable and delaying the time when we can get a new coach to attempt to rebuild. The longer this limbo lasts, the deeper we slide into the abyss.

On football, I don't know what to think. I have not been enamored with the JON hire--I understand that a cultural change is being made to the defensive scheme. However, the farther away in the rear view mirror the two BIG Ten West championships go, the farther we slide into irrelevance. The current recruiting class feels like the guys that Fitz recruited in his first five classes. Will Fitz stay and work through another 10 year rebuilding?

And what about the fans? For both sports the expectations have changed. I lived through the dark ages in the late 70's and early 80's. I'm not going to stick around for 10 years on the outside chance that things will get better. I have better things in which to invest my time. So do most retired alums.

I'm sorry folks. I can't help it. I know some of you will lambast me for the above. That's okay. I'm a big boy. I can take it. I just needed somewhere to vent my emotions after 25 years of investment watching things get better just to see them fall apart.

 

[Hungry Jack]

The Dark Ages were defined by deliberate institutional neglect of revenue sports at NU. Regardless of what we see on the field in the near term, it is VERY clear that NU is committed to revenue sports. You will probably see a new football stadium being built in the next few years, right on the heels of major investments in WRA and the lakefront athletic facility.

The decision to retain Collins is probably based on one, and only factor: a $9M buyout. I don't blame Gragg for not sticking his neck out on that. It is far from ideal, but we are just going to have wait. Maybe Collins will shock us, though I don't have high hopes. I do have better feelings about finding a coach who can succeed. There are 347 Division 1 basketball coaches out there. Some are crafty enough to succeed at NU. Just have to find one of them.

I am not ready at all to write off JON and the transition to a new defensive scheme. This is a 2-3 year process, as many of the guys on the roster are poor fits for the new scheme. I will be patient.

 

[phatcat]

The Dark Ages were defined by deliberate institutional neglect of revenue sports at NU. Regardless of what we see on the field in the near term, it is VERY clear that NU is committed to revenue sports. You will probably see a new football stadium being built in the next few years, right on the heels of major investments in WRA and the lakefront athletic facility.

The decision to retain Collins is probably based on one, and only factor: a $9M buyout. I don't blame Gragg for not sticking his neck out on that. It is far from ideal, but we are just going to have wait. Maybe Collins will shock us, though I don't have high hopes. I do have better feelings about finding a coach who can succeed. There are 347 Division 1 basketball coaches out there. Some are crafty enough to succeed at NU. Just have to find one of them.

I am not ready at all to write off JON and the transition to a new defensive scheme. This is a 2-3 year process, as many of the guys on the roster are poor fits for the new scheme. I will be patient.

I am a huge skeptic of JON. Failed everywhere, scrapped a highly successful system, and his system seems to be built around not tackling people /s
Coaches come and go, but I am mostly concerned about NU's ability to adapt to NIL/portal

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Did anybody catch Dr. Jim sitting immediately behind the UNC bench last night? He was such an involved AD at NU and did a lot to make athletes feel at home and to succeed. I feel we have traded a 5 star AD for someone who has just disappeared into the wall paper. Likewise, Morty is gone and I have no idea what the new President thinks about sports, or if they even think about sports.

Honestly, I just despair over the revenue sports right now at NU. The decision to keep Collins for 1-2 more years is just putting off the inevitable and delaying the time when we can get a new coach to attempt to rebuild. The longer this limbo lasts, the deeper we slide into the abyss.

On football, I don't know what to think. I have not been enamored with the JON hire--I understand that a cultural change is being made to the defensive scheme. However, the farther away in the rear view mirror the two BIG Ten West championships go, the farther we slide into irrelevance. The current recruiting class feels like the guys that Fitz recruited in his first five classes. Will Fitz stay and work through another 10 year rebuilding?

And what about the fans? For both sports the expectations have changed. I lived through the dark ages in the late 70's and early 80's. I'm not going to stick around for 10 years on the outside chance that things will get better. I have better things in which to invest my time. So do most retired alums.

I'm sorry folks. I can't help it. I know some of you will lambast me for the above. That's okay. I'm a big boy. I can take it. I just needed somewhere to vent my emotions after 25 years of investment watching things get better just to see them fall apart.

Other than this “feel” do you have any evidence to disparage our new AD? I’ve heard our student-athletes like him quite a bit. I’ve seen his presence at many games/matches. His interaction on Twitter is far greater than Phillips (not that means much, just sayin’).

 

[IGNORE2]

Other than this “feel” do you have any evidence to disparage our new AD? I’ve heard our student-athletes like him quite a bit. I’ve seen his presence at many games/matches. His interaction on Twitter is far greater than Phillips (not that means much, just sayin’).

I think there is a whole thread of evidence from his prior employers.

 

[NUera]

I'm sorry folks. I can't help it. I know some of you will lambast me for the above. That's okay. I'm a big boy. I can take it. I just needed somewhere to vent my emotions after 25 years of investment watching things get better just to see them fall apart.

No need to be sorry. I’ve said it several times: The biggest threat to NU Revenue Athletics isn’t high expectations or a bad AD or angry fans… it’s apathy. And the sad part is that you can actually feel it coming. Life is simply too short.

EDIT: here’s another thing people don’t talk about enough - there’s a huge chunk of the younger generation that simply doesn’t care about sports. (Or if they do, it’s eSports.) Like, how many people on here are current students?

 

[TheC]

No need to be sorry. I’ve said it several times: The biggest threat to NU Revenue Athletics isn’t high expectations or a bad AD or angry fans… it’s apathy. And the sad part is that you can actually feel it coming. Life is simply too short.

EDIT: here’s another thing people don’t talk about enough - there’s a huge chunk of the younger generation that simply doesn’t care about sports. (Or if they do, it’s eSports.) Like, how many people on here are current students?

I suspect message boards like this are old-fashioned. The current students that care about sports are probably on other media.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

No need to be sorry. I’ve said it several times: The biggest threat to NU Revenue Athletics isn’t high expectations or a bad AD or angry fans… it’s apathy. And the sad part is that you can actually feel it coming. Life is simply too short.

EDIT: here’s another thing people don’t talk about enough - there’s a huge chunk of the younger generation that simply doesn’t care about sports. (Or if they do, it’s eSports.) Like, how many people on here are current students?

Spoiler Alert:

College kids have no interest in listening to a bunch of old people bitching about sports.

 

[loyolacat]

Interesting comments...on how or how not the nature of the sports fan is changing/not changing....I think it is changing,,,along with society in general...We have for a better worse become more self consumed...There are inconveniences in going OUT...compared to staying in...you dont have to interact with people you dont know....you create your own fan list by who you may or may not have over.....you have all your stuff ready...dont have to go to the john with strangers...etc...on and on...Be out in the cold....sit on a metal seat... so there are 1. fans that go in person...2.fans who stay and participate (?) from home...and then does that eventually effect people who may even have a connection just 3.forget about sports all together.....we build more decks than porches, abhor public transportation, and now the pandemic has given us the joy of never eating inside with strangers.....my point, I think, is that we build and desire our own personal environments and the experience of sharing an experience , no matter how exciting, with people we dont know. The public, community experience no longer is desired but avoided. This is a generalization based on observations for sure cuz I love that shared experience...to me beats the experience of shouting in an empty room, turning off the Tv and going to see whats in the fridge....but I think I am moving towards being an outlier... It seems also that music events offer some evidence against my theory. Anyway I still remember the NU-Mich game , I think it was 96 where Gowans had to kick the game winner not once but twice...48,000 in the stands...great experience.

 

[IGNORE2]

Interesting comments...on how or how not the nature of the sports fan is changing/not changing....I think it is changing,,,along with society in general...We have for a better worse become more self consumed...There are inconveniences in going OUT...compared to staying in...you dont have to interact with people you dont know....you create your own fan list by who you may or may not have over.....you have all your stuff ready...dont have to go to the john with strangers...etc...on and on...Be out in the cold....sit on a metal seat... so there are 1. fans that go in person...2.fans who stay and participate (?) from home...and then does that eventually effect people who may even have a connection just 3.forget about sports all together.....we build more decks than porches, abhor public transportation, and now the pandemic has given us the joy of never eating inside with strangers.....my point, I think, is that we build and desire our own personal environments and the experience of sharing an experience , no matter how exciting, with people we dont know. The public, community experience no longer is desired but avoided. This is a generalization based on observations for sure cuz I love that shared experience...to me beats the experience of shouting in an empty room, turning off the Tv and going to see whats in the fridge....but I think I am moving towards being an outlier... It seems also that music events offer some evidence against my theory. Anyway I still remember the NU-Mich game , I think it was 96 where Gowans had to kick the game winner not once but twice...48,000 in the stands...great experience.

I think part of it is due to half of the country despising the other half and vice versa...without ever even meeting them. And since both sides are represented in public gatherings, some of the more afflicted folks rather stay home than have to suffer consuming the same air as their enemy. Oh for the days of tolerance, free speech and right to an opinion....and the home of the free...

 

[TheC]

I think part of it is due to half of the country despising the other half and vice versa...without ever even meeting them. And since both sides are represented in public gatherings, some of the more afflicted folks rather stay home than have to suffer consuming the same air as their enemy. Oh for the days of tolerance, free speech and right to an opinion....and the home of the free...

I don't think people don't go to sporting events in person because of politics. I think it's more the improved experience at home and also the costs of attending events in person. I also agree with loyola that we value different things now and so the cons of going in person are more outsized than the pros. I have to travel there. Sit in the elements. Wait in line for the bathroom. Yell at the guy in front of me who keeps standing (kidding!). Maybe have to sit next to IGNORE2 at the game (not kidding there..... ok..... yes I'm kidding). It ain't worth it!

Plus thing have gotten expensive. And not only that, but I feel like there are more things we have to spend our money on these days. I was thinking about my apartment back in school. Back then, I had to pay rent, plus food, plus the electric bill and a little bit for water. Nowadays, someone has to pay for all those things, plus internet service, plus cell phone service, plus streaming service, plus this movie plan, plus that music plan, plus a bunch of other things I'm forgetting about. I have no idea how a middle class family ever attends a live sporting event.

 

[Hungry Jack]

I don't think people don't go to sporting events in person because of politics.

People go to be entertained, which includes getting away from politics. That’s why most people hate political statements injected into sports.

 

[NUera]

People go to be entertained, which includes getting away from politics. That’s why most people hate political statements injected into sports.

Yea but how thin-skinned does one have to be to get set off by a "political statement" at a game? Like really? It's not like you have to listen to a speech. A dude kneels during an anthem or after scoring a touchdown... MAYBE the stadium asks for a moment of silence before the thing even starts. It's a few seconds of your life AT MOST where you are absolutely free to look away, think about someone else, remember what you need to buy at the grocery store, etc.

That someone could have their entire game experience ruined by something so benign absolutely boggles my mind. Either you're an incredibly high-strung powder keg and this is just an excuse to blow your top, incredibly insecure about your own feelings that you can't even tolerate a shred of anyone else's thoughts, don't really believe in free speech if it's not the kind you agree with, don't have a life, or all of the above.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Yea but how thin-skinned does one have to be to get set off by a "political statement" at a game? Like really? It's not like you have to listen to a speech. A dude kneels during an anthem or after scoring a touchdown... MAYBE the stadium asks for a moment of silence before the thing even starts. It's a few seconds of your life AT MOST where you are absolutely free to look away, think about someone else, remember what you need to buy at the grocery store, etc.

That someone could have their entire game experience ruined by something so benign absolutely boggles my mind. Either you're an incredibly high-strung powder keg and this is just an excuse to blow your top, incredibly insecure about your own feelings that you can't even tolerate a shred of anyone else's thoughts, don't really believe in free speech if it's not the kind you agree with, don't have a life, or all of the above.

I'm not sure that is the issue as much as fans feeling duped or taken advantage of by the team. I think a lot of NU fans were miffed that the administration permitted those protestors on the field, and less upset at the message the protestors were conveying. If "sports time" is "private time" for sports and only sports, then the political stuff might get annoying.

 

[Sec.112]

... Plus thing have gotten expensive ...

This is the one that I've thought about for a long time now. I believe pro sports and major college sports have started to price out family attendance, and I think we're starting to see the effects of the first generation that couldn't get a $10-20 ticket.

I don't know about you, but my parents and grandparents had no problem taking me to various pro and college sporting events. Cubs bleachers were $3-5. Bill Veeck gave away seats like they were going out of style. My friend's Dad had a connection at the Stadium box office for 2nd level Hawks tickets for $12. And I started college basketball watching Aguire, Cummings and Ty Corbin for a low price at the Horizon.

With inflation,a $20 ticket in 1980 is now $68. And most of the 1980 tickets were far below $20.

Kids aren't taken to games as easily as they once were. I think most franchises are making HUGE long-term mistakes by not making a low percentage of tickets easily available to a family of four. There's ways they could cut out scalpers, and they just don't care about that investment.

For NU, I have no clue why they don 't give away more seats in the last two rows to the game against Middle of Nowhere U on a Tuesday night in December.

 

[IGNORE2]

This is the one that I've thought about for a long time now. I believe pro sports and major college sports have started to price out family attendance, and I think we're starting to see the effects of the first generation that couldn't get a $10-20 ticket.

I don't know about you, but my parents and grandparents had no problem taking me to various pro and college sporting events. Cubs bleachers were $3-5. Bill Veeck gave away seats like they were going out of style. My friend's Dad had a connection at the Stadium box office for 2nd level Hawks tickets for $12. And I started college basketball watching Aguire, Cummings and Ty Corbin for a low price at the Horizon.

With inflation,a $20 ticket in 1980 is now $68. And most of the 1980 tickets were far below $20.

Kids aren't taken to games as easily as they once were. I think most franchises are making HUGE long-term mistakes by not making a low percentage of easily available to a family of four. There's ways they could cut out scalpers, and they just don't care about that investment.

For NU, I have no clue why they don 't give away more seats in the last two rows to the game against Middle of Nowhere U on Tuesday night in December.

But if you are going to charge, you have to produce - good team, entertainment, fun environment. The people that think folks will pay out the arse with no expectations because fandom requires it are simply wrong. The days of cub world are over. Unless you have a giant beer garden full of half naked girls, people aren’t shelling out dough and time for a sucky experience.

 

[The Purple Knight]

No need to be sorry. I’ve said it several times: The biggest threat to NU Revenue Athletics isn’t high expectations or a bad AD or angry fans… it’s apathy. And the sad part is that you can actually feel it coming. Life is simply too short.

EDIT: here’s another thing people don’t talk about enough - there’s a huge chunk of the younger generation that simply doesn’t care about sports. (Or if they do, it’s eSports.) Like, how many people on here are current students?

The students care about sports at the sports powerhouse schools in the SEC. Games are huge events that take over campuses and college towns for the entire weekend. Massive tailgate parties, followed by student parties into the wee hours.

 

[mountaindrew]

This is the one that I've thought about for a long time now. I believe pro sports and major college sports have started to price out family attendance, and I think we're starting to see the effects of the first generation that couldn't get a $10-20 ticket.

I don't know about you, but my parents and grandparents had no problem taking me to various pro and college sporting events. Cubs bleachers were $3-5. Bill Veeck gave away seats like they were going out of style. My friend's Dad had a connection at the Stadium box office for 2nd level Hawks tickets for $12. And I started college basketball watching Aguire, Cummings and Ty Corbin for a low price at the Horizon.

With inflation,a $20 ticket in 1980 is now $68. And most of the 1980 tickets were far below $20.

Kids aren't taken to games as easily as they once were. I think most franchises are making HUGE long-term mistakes by not making a low percentage of tickets easily available to a family of four. There's ways they could cut out scalpers, and they just don't care about that investment.

For NU, I have no clue why they don 't give away more seats in the last two rows to the game against Middle of Nowhere U on a Tuesday night in December.

Yes Sir. Great points.

You mentioned most of the tickets around 1980 were far below $20. When I was in HS in the late 70s, box seats at Wrigley were still $7. SEVEN DOLLARS!!!!!!! And of course at that time, my parents, and I, thought, OMG who can afford $7??!!?? So we sat in the grandstand for $3, or in the bleachers for $1. ONE DOLLAR.

Still the greatest deal of all time.

My sister and I went to a late 70s game one day, sat in the second row of the bleachers in left center right over the 368 sign, and good ol' Gary Woods got hold of one right at us that I could have caught without moving a foot .... if all the fans sitting right around us hadn't shoved their way into our space and knocked the ball down before it got near me. Then two guys wrestled for the ball for two minutes under our bleacher...

Those were the days.

 

[Sec.112]

Yes Sir. Great points.

You mentioned most of the tickets around 1980 were far below $20. When I was in HS in the late 70s, box seats at Wrigley were still $7. SEVEN DOLLARS!!!!!!! And of course at that time, my parents, and I, thought, OMG who can afford $7??!!?? So we sat in the grandstand for $3, or in the bleachers for $1. ONE DOLLAR.

Still the greatest deal of all time.

My sister and I went to a late 70s game one day, sat in the second row of the bleachers in left center right over the 368 sign, and good ol' Gary Woods got hold of one right at us that I could have caught without moving a foot .... if all the fans sitting right around us hadn't shoved their way into our space and knocked the ball down before it got near me. Then two guys wrestled for the ball for two minutes under our bleacher...

Those were the days.

And how many of us carry that Cubs fan thing with us because they were VERY accessible in person and on free TV.

I'm really stunned more local organizations don't recognize this part of the Cubs formula. Of course, it includes the neighborhood, the ballpark and other factors. But I believe accessibility is the driving factors. You may reduce your profit short term, but if you do it right, you more than make up for it over 10+ years.

Now, the Cubs have begun the Reinsdorf/Wirtz path of maximizing ticket prices and reducing TV exposure for full profit. Watch the effect in 20+ years.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Yea but how thin-skinned does one have to be to get set off by a "political statement" at a game? Like really? It's not like you have to listen to a speech. A dude kneels during an anthem or after scoring a touchdown... MAYBE the stadium asks for a moment of silence before the thing even starts. It's a few seconds of your life AT MOST where you are absolutely free to look away, think about someone else, remember what you need to buy at the grocery store, etc.

That someone could have their entire game experience ruined by something so benign absolutely boggles my mind. Either you're an incredibly high-strung powder keg and this is just an excuse to blow your top, incredibly insecure about your own feelings that you can't even tolerate a shred of anyone else's thoughts, don't really believe in free speech if it's not the kind you agree with, don't have a life, or all of the above.

This comment seems rather harsh.
The complaint is about injecting politics into entertainment.
People get upset that it occurs in general.

I don't care if a guy takes a knee during the national anthem. I do care if a bunch of anti-abortion zealots occupy the field with large images of mutilated fetuses. Or if "Parents For Selective Euthanasia" has an uninvited parade at halftime.