ADVERTISEMENT

Turk's Game Analysis and Player Grades

Turk

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
25,688
1,523
113
Blacklisted by Fitz
Mr All Turk: Watkins
All Turk Awards: Jackson, Watkins, Godwin, Henry, North, Frazier, Hence

Head Coach: Grade D
The game plan was poor. Stick to what got us here: rushing and our bread and butter, i.e., Jackson. Not sure why we went away from this and also didn't call it on key downs, but we did. It cost us. Instead the game plan seemed to be to rely on Thorson and our wide outs. Bad move. Flush it. We got crushed in 3 losses in embarrassing fashion and gives everyone reason to say we don't belong, but Fitz did a great job getting 10 wins this year. Loves him going for it on 4th down and putting trust in Jackson, the only problem was he should have done that more often today. For that reason, Fitz gets a D-. Jackson was the ONLY way we were going to be able to compete. Rush him 30 times like every other game. WTH was he thinking?

Offensive Coordinator: McCall: Grade F
Had a good recruit in Oliver but never developed him. Has 2 four star QB recruits yet has not been able to develop them. That said, McCall did the exact game plan to lose the game. On key 3rd downs he would pull Vitale off the field. In fact, his game plan was to utilize Vault and have Vitale on the bench for most snaps. The two key players installed in McCall's game plan were Thorson and Vault. Moving Vault to wide out seems like a good plan but utilizing him still as a RB in the wr position is second to just handing the ball off to Jackson. I was told that Thorson was going to be a big part of the offense today but I assumed we wouldn't be so reliant on him and assumed that we would move the pocket and get him out in the open a bit. Nothing. Nothing at all.

DC: Hank: Grade C+
would have been nice to have something more than 4 man rush but overall I think he called a decent game. It seemed to work until our LB"s got absolutely gassed.

OL: Grade B
Olson had some serious problems but I felt that Frazier, Hence and North did fairly well, believe it or not. I actually think this is going to be a good strength for us next year. Trust me, I feel weird saying that this OL did decent today, given we only got 6 points to show, but we literally have NO QB and awful play calling.

WR: Grade F
Nuff said. Even though I expected Vitale to play more than 5 plays in the first half, when they finally went to him in the fourth quarter [not that it mattered] both him and Jones drop the ball. This unit needs a new coach. Period.

RB: Grade A
Both Long and Jackson looked solid. McCall has the wrong personnel in there at times. Having Jackson in the backfield to block on long 3rd downs is awful. C'mon McCall get your personnel straight!

QB: Grade F
That said, Thorson did have some really interesting and solid passes but they were mostly dropped. Seems more comfortable in the pocket which I like. But is too much of a student in the classroom while playing. Just doesn't get it yet. I'd like to see someone develop him. When that happens, watch out. He should be our #1 QB next year as we should stick with him.

DL: Grade C
Early on Lowry held that end down but he got gassed. Thompson had interesting play. Xwas got spent. Gibson was ok. Ifeadi was a no show when the game mattered. Robbins and Lancaster gave good minutes. Kuhar didn't seem to have any push.

LB: Grade B-
Early on, SMith and Walker looked very good. But fell off the map late in the third. Hall must have been gassed as well as he started missing a lot of tackles. We don't have any LB depth. Maybe bringing in a 5th DB more often could have spelled a break for our LB's. Dunno.

DB: Grade A
Once again, a solid unit. Two big plays to TE's but our safeties were AWESOME and our cb's as well.

Special Teams: Grade B-
FG/extra point: Grade F. Nuff said
Return teams: Grade C+
Kickoff/Punt teams: Grade A
 
LOL...... I wish I had kept some of the OP's posts these last couple weeks on how Tenn was gonna get destroyed and the names he called us voles fans.
 
Niswander needs serious improvement he was completely blown away by the Tennessee punter!
 
Your man Turk should be so critical of his choice in presidential candidates. "F."

Sorry, but the dude lost all credibility when I visited the OT board the other day. And I'm not a "Lib."
 
I'm puzzled by the Punt team A?
Seriously. Worst punting performance I have seen in D-1 football. It was a key factor in the blow out. The starkest talent difference at any position on the field was UT punter v. NU punter.
 
Our receivers have poor hands and cannot get separation. We have gotten better at DBACK positions and that has been huge but now need receivers. I also thought Vitale would be a big part of the game plan. We did need Thorson to be a dual threat, but the running game for JJ seemed like it had a chance. We were out of sync, got tired defensively, and threw interceptions it should have been closer.
 
The lack of depth at olinebacker is a surprise. one postion I thought Fitz would recruit well.
 
I agree with this part.
The punter did exactly what he was asked to do. Could he have outkicked his coverage? Yes. But why? Going into this game, I felt that if we could neutralize the Tenn return teams, we could focus our defense against the Tenn offense and have equal chances. The Tenn return team had 5 yards total returns. I'm sorry but I thought that was damn good strategy on Fitz' part. In fact, I would say it was almost perfect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AFVolunteer
Ditto, Also it looks like he is grading on a curve. Didn't see any A's and OL a B ? Backers get a D. Missed tackles, leaving gaps wide open,
I probably am grading on a curve. On a day when it is so easy to blame everyone, I think there were individual units that did their part. As far as the OL, I have been pleasantly surprised by the OL late in this season, including today. I haven't watched the tape yet but it seemed to me that they were getting a good push and giving Jackson the holes he needed. So, not sure what your problem is with the OL? Even in pass offense, what do you want them to do when the QB doesn't dump it off to his outlet? Thorson actually had time and was more comfortable in the pocket but hasn't learned to step up. That said, at least Thorson is learning to stay in the pocket, maybe next year he can learn to move around in it or step up. And, imo, it was near miraculous that he had more than 2 seconds since, for whatever reason, McCall fails to move the pocket or do misdirection or screen passes. So, if you are the DT or DE, you pretty much know when a pass is coming, and you damn sure know where the QB will be. Going back to our PSU game, our defense did great against Hankenburg until Franklin moved the pocket exclusively on one drive. He set the pocket outside the right tackle and PSU promptly moved down the field for a TD. Most folks would say why did our defense allow that??? Well, because of simple things like moving a pocket, etc. We don't. McCall is OVER HIS HEAD BIGTIME.
 
It doesn't matter. He doesn't want to hear the truth. All he wants to do is spread propaganda that everything is going great!!
I really think Fitz is a terrific head coach, but like all coaches, he has his pitfalls. I felt Fitz had symptons of misplaced loyalty and identified this as "The Problem of Fitz'. I'm not an expert but any casual fan can tell that McCall is seriously above his coaching grade level. I predicted, through the "Problem of Fitz" that Fitz would go to the mat for his entire coaching staff instead of pruning the bush to make it stronger. I hate being right. That said, where do you see things headed next year? I assume he brings back Springer and McCall by virtue of 10 wins even though the offense was a catastrophe as myself and others correctly assessed due to clear and present coaching issues.

Remember, McCall decided to pass on the 4 star McCaffery as he was the only coach out of the 'smart schools' who didn't offer him. McCaffery is a beast and is now destroying Iowa. Silly McCall.
 
It doesn't matter. He doesn't want to hear the truth. All he wants to do is spread propaganda that everything is going great!!

You, sir, couldn't be more wrong. Show me where I said everything was going great.
 
It doesn't matter. He doesn't want to hear the truth. All he wants to do is spread propaganda that everything is going great!!

You really need to take a break from attacking other posters. Go play some golf or something; stepping away from the keyboard will do you some good...
 
Your man Turk should be so critical of his choice in presidential candidates. "F."

Sorry, but the dude lost all credibility when I visited the OT board the other day. And I'm not a "Lib."

I never visit the rant board; but I will take a wild guess-- he's a Trump supporter?
 
  • Like
Reactions: NYCVol
The punter did exactly what he was asked to do. Could he have outkicked his coverage? Yes. But why? Going into this game, I felt that if we could neutralize the Tenn return teams, we could focus our defense against the Tenn offense and have equal chances. The Tenn return team had 5 yards total returns. I'm sorry but I thought that was damn good strategy on Fitz' part. In fact, I would say it was almost perfect.

Agreed. Iowa punter just punted it straight to McCaffery. with predictable results....Niswander did shank one late (but it hardly mattered at that pojnt); otherwise, he did precisely what he should have done.
 
Seriously. Worst punting performance I have seen in D-1 football. It was a key factor in the blow out. The starkest talent difference at any position on the field was UT punter v. NU punter.
Well said, I think what Turk meant was there were no good returns by Tennessee. Turk is usually critical of Niswander and I concur if you check my earlier post, I said the same thing very large separation in the profiency of the two punters.
 
Well said, I think what Turk meant was there were no good returns by Tennessee. Turk is usually critical of Niswander and I concur if you check my earlier post, I said the same thing very large separation in the profiency of the two punters.

Niswander drops the ball (point down) like he's TRYING to shank it. I'm no kicking expert but the simple fact is that I don't see other guys doing it so it's odd. The rule of thumb when you do things differently is that it better fricking work!

It doesn't work!

He needs a coach. What he is doing doesn't work.
 
Mr All Turk: Watkins
All Turk Awards: Jackson, Watkins, Godwin, Henry, North, Frazier, Hence

Head Coach: Grade D
The game plan was poor. Stick to what got us here: rushing and our bread and butter, i.e., Jackson. Not sure why we went away from this and also didn't call it on key downs, but we did. It cost us. Instead the game plan seemed to be to rely on Thorson and our wide outs. Bad move. Flush it. We got crushed in 3 losses in embarrassing fashion and gives everyone reason to say we don't belong, but Fitz did a great job getting 10 wins this year. Loves him going for it on 4th down and putting trust in Jackson, the only problem was he should have done that more often today. For that reason, Fitz gets a D-. Jackson was the ONLY way we were going to be able to compete. Rush him 30 times like every other game. WTH was he thinking?

Offensive Coordinator: McCall: Grade F
Had a good recruit in Oliver but never developed him. Has 2 four star QB recruits yet has not been able to develop them. That said, McCall did the exact game plan to lose the game. On key 3rd downs he would pull Vitale off the field. In fact, his game plan was to utilize Vault and have Vitale on the bench for most snaps. The two key players installed in McCall's game plan were Thorson and Vault. Moving Vault to wide out seems like a good plan but utilizing him still as a RB in the wr position is second to just handing the ball off to Jackson. I was told that Thorson was going to be a big part of the offense today but I assumed we wouldn't be so reliant on him and assumed that we would move the pocket and get him out in the open a bit. Nothing. Nothing at all.

DC: Hank: Grade C+
would have been nice to have something more than 4 man rush but overall I think he called a decent game. It seemed to work until our LB"s got absolutely gassed.

OL: Grade B
Olson had some serious problems but I felt that Frazier, Hence and North did fairly well, believe it or not. I actually think this is going to be a good strength for us next year. Trust me, I feel weird saying that this OL did decent today, given we only got 6 points to show, but we literally have NO QB and awful play calling.

WR: Grade F
Nuff said. Even though I expected Vitale to play more than 5 plays in the first half, when they finally went to him in the fourth quarter [not that it mattered] both him and Jones drop the ball. This unit needs a new coach. Period.

RB: Grade A
Both Long and Jackson looked solid. McCall has the wrong personnel in there at times. Having Jackson in the backfield to block on long 3rd downs is awful. C'mon McCall get your personnel straight!

QB: Grade F
That said, Thorson did have some really interesting and solid passes but they were mostly dropped. Seems more comfortable in the pocket which I like. But is too much of a student in the classroom while playing. Just doesn't get it yet. I'd like to see someone develop him. When that happens, watch out. He should be our #1 QB next year as we should stick with him.

DL: Grade C
Early on Lowry held that end down but he got gassed. Thompson had interesting play. Xwas got spent. Gibson was ok. Ifeadi was a no show when the game mattered. Robbins and Lancaster gave good minutes. Kuhar didn't seem to have any push.

LB: Grade B-
Early on, SMith and Walker looked very good. But fell off the map late in the third. Hall must have been gassed as well as he started missing a lot of tackles. We don't have any LB depth. Maybe bringing in a 5th DB more often could have spelled a break for our LB's. Dunno.

DB: Grade A
Once again, a solid unit. Two big plays to TE's but our safeties were AWESOME and our cb's as well.

Special Teams: Grade B-
FG/extra point: Grade F. Nuff said
Return teams: Grade C+
Kickoff/Punt teams: Grade A
Well done Turk!
 
Niswander drops the ball (point down) like he's TRYING to shank it. I'm no kicking expert but the simple fact is that I don't see other guys doing it so it's odd. The rule of thumb when you do things differently is that it better fricking work!

It doesn't work!

He needs a coach. What he is doing doesn't work.
Stupor agreed! Question is who coaches him and frankly I don't remember a punter since burton brung any good.
 
Stupor agreed! Question is who coaches him and frankly I don't remember a punter since burton brung any good.

JJ Standring followed Burton and was his peer. He averaged 43.1 yards/punt his senior season, the 4th best in NU history. But your point is valid.
 
So, because Niswander didn't give up a return for a td he was successful? Pretty sure the criteria for a punter is to maximize field position, which is includes but is not limited to, preventing tds. We did a poor job maximizing field position today relative to reasonable expectations via the punt, and that's not really new.
 
I don't know a thing about punting technique except that Ray Guy And Reggie Roby and John Kidd didn't do it that way. So maybe there's a technique there, like Rick Barry shooting free throws underhanded. Small problem: Barry was the best free throw shooter of all time. So he can do whatever he wants. But I guarantee that if Barry made Wilt-like percentages, his coaches would have told him "son, if you ever try that girlie-ass gimmick style on my court again, you're fired."
 
The punter did exactly what he was asked to do. Could he have outkicked his coverage? Yes. But why? Going into this game, I felt that if we could neutralize the Tenn return teams, we could focus our defense against the Tenn offense and have equal chances. The Tenn return team had 5 yards total returns. I'm sorry but I thought that was damn good strategy on Fitz' part. In fact, I would say it was almost perfect.

I agree with you that NU's punter did exactly what he was supposed to do in regards to punting high, short kicks in order to limit our punt return opportunities. However, that coaching decision led to advantageous field position for the Vols regardless. So in my opinion, I feel like it worked out in TN's favor.
 
I don't know a thing about punting technique except that Ray Guy And Reggie Roby and John Kidd didn't do it that way. So maybe there's a technique there, like Rick Barry shooting free throws underhanded. Small problem: Barry was the best free throw shooter of all time. So he can do whatever he wants. But I guarantee that if Barry made Wilt-like percentages, his coaches would have told him "son, if you ever try that girlie-ass gimmick style on my court again, you're fired."

The objective of pointing the the nose of the ball down while punting is to try and get the ball to flutter instead of spiral. You want the ball to flutter so that if the returner allows it to hit the ground, it will not roll. Instead, it will hit and stay where it lands. You see this technique applied more often when you want to pin your opponent deep in their own territory.
 
The objective of pointing the the nose of the ball down while punting is to try and get the ball to flutter instead of spiral. You want the ball to flutter so that if the returner allows it to hit the ground, it will not roll. Instead, it will hit and stay where it lands. You see this technique applied more often when you want to pin your opponent deep in their own territory.

Well that never fricking works... Methinks our special teams coach is outsmarting himself. Boot the damn ball, run like hell, stay in your lane and tackle the damn guy. This isn't billiards. None of this goofy kicking masse stuff. Especially if it's gonna make you shank and whiff. Ever watch a drunk guy in a bar try a masse shot? They always shank the shot...
 
Think he meant our punt coverage team; since their punt returner is all-conference.
Actually the all-conference punt returner left the game early in the 1st qtr with a hamstring injury and did not return a punt. Not that it would have mattered as the #2 guy is pretty darn good at it and he didn't do much. NU defenders didn't miss many tackles, if they got a hold of one of our guys they brought them down.
 
Mr All Turk: Watkins
All Turk Awards: Jackson, Watkins, Godwin, Henry, North, Frazier, Hence

Head Coach: Grade D
The game plan was poor. Stick to what got us here: rushing and our bread and butter, i.e., Jackson. Not sure why we went away from this and also didn't call it on key downs, but we did. It cost us. Instead the game plan seemed to be to rely on Thorson and our wide outs. Bad move. Flush it. We got crushed in 3 losses in embarrassing fashion and gives everyone reason to say we don't belong, but Fitz did a great job getting 10 wins this year. Loves him going for it on 4th down and putting trust in Jackson, the only problem was he should have done that more often today. For that reason, Fitz gets a D-. Jackson was the ONLY way we were going to be able to compete. Rush him 30 times like every other game. WTH was he thinking?

Offensive Coordinator: McCall: Grade F
Had a good recruit in Oliver but never developed him. Has 2 four star QB recruits yet has not been able to develop them. That said, McCall did the exact game plan to lose the game. On key 3rd downs he would pull Vitale off the field. In fact, his game plan was to utilize Vault and have Vitale on the bench for most snaps. The two key players installed in McCall's game plan were Thorson and Vault. Moving Vault to wide out seems like a good plan but utilizing him still as a RB in the wr position is second to just handing the ball off to Jackson. I was told that Thorson was going to be a big part of the offense today but I assumed we wouldn't be so reliant on him and assumed that we would move the pocket and get him out in the open a bit. Nothing. Nothing at all.

DC: Hank: Grade C+
would have been nice to have something more than 4 man rush but overall I think he called a decent game. It seemed to work until our LB"s got absolutely gassed.

OL: Grade B
Olson had some serious problems but I felt that Frazier, Hence and North did fairly well, believe it or not. I actually think this is going to be a good strength for us next year. Trust me, I feel weird saying that this OL did decent today, given we only got 6 points to show, but we literally have NO QB and awful play calling.

WR: Grade F
Nuff said. Even though I expected Vitale to play more than 5 plays in the first half, when they finally went to him in the fourth quarter [not that it mattered] both him and Jones drop the ball. This unit needs a new coach. Period.

RB: Grade A
Both Long and Jackson looked solid. McCall has the wrong personnel in there at times. Having Jackson in the backfield to block on long 3rd downs is awful. C'mon McCall get your personnel straight!

QB: Grade F
That said, Thorson did have some really interesting and solid passes but they were mostly dropped. Seems more comfortable in the pocket which I like. But is too much of a student in the classroom while playing. Just doesn't get it yet. I'd like to see someone develop him. When that happens, watch out. He should be our #1 QB next year as we should stick with him.

DL: Grade C
Early on Lowry held that end down but he got gassed. Thompson had interesting play. Xwas got spent. Gibson was ok. Ifeadi was a no show when the game mattered. Robbins and Lancaster gave good minutes. Kuhar didn't seem to have any push.

LB: Grade B-
Early on, SMith and Walker looked very good. But fell off the map late in the third. Hall must have been gassed as well as he started missing a lot of tackles. We don't have any LB depth. Maybe bringing in a 5th DB more often could have spelled a break for our LB's. Dunno.

DB: Grade A
Once again, a solid unit. Two big plays to TE's but our safeties were AWESOME and our cb's as well.

Special Teams: Grade B-
FG/extra point: Grade F. Nuff said
Return teams: Grade C+
Kickoff/Punt teams: Grade A


A really nice breakdown.

Speed was a big topic the past few weeks, and how the Vols had much more. I saw similar speed in NU defensive side of the ball. I was really impressed with the speed of your starting unit. But it seemed the speed discussion ended when the reserves checked in. The Vols are really deep at a lot of positions.

The size difference was big. Tennessee brought a lot of size on both sides of the ball. It made a difference over 2 quarters. Tennessee had SEC caliber size, and they mixed it up with Elite opponents. Having that experience paid dividends today.

QB play was also to Tennessee. NU's only opportunity to expose us was stopping the run. If you'd have made Dobbs a passer, you'd have had more success.

I think you guys have a nice team. I used to live off Harrison and Halsted by UIC back in the day. I enjoyed following NU while I was there.

Good luck on your recruiting season. It's always a fun and exciting time.
 
I agree with you that NU's punter did exactly what he was supposed to do in regards to punting high, short kicks in order to limit our punt return opportunities. However, that coaching decision led to advantageous field position for the Vols regardless. So in my opinion, I feel like it worked out in TN's favor.
no doubt it worked out in tenn favor but it still was better collateral damage than allowing a game changing return. Less well known at the time was that our defense would get worn down.
 
Not for nothing, but I thought Watkins did a pretty solid job in place of Vanhoose.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT