Turnover talk (and special teams)

[eastbaycat99]

Comments here and on Michigan boards have emphasized the importance of winning the turnover battle and getting points from special teams Saturday. While NU has a big edge in the actual turnover stat, Michigan has a small lead in net points off turnovers. NU has 11 takeaways and only 6 giveaways for a +5, while Michigan has 7 takeaways but has coughed the ball up 9 times for a net of -2.

For Michigan, incredibly, its 9 turnovers have only once converted to points, a pick 6 against Utah. Michigan has converted 3 of its takeaways into touchdowns.

On the other hand, half of the Cats giveaways resulted in opponents scoring, specifically 2 touchdowns and 1 field goal. They have cashed four, three touchdowns and one field goal. From a comparative standpoint, Michigan is +14 points off turnovers, while the cats are +7.

On special teams the Cats have scored one touchdown with a kick return and set up another with a punt return, while giving up no big returns. Michigan had one punt return of 29 yards set up a short field that led to a field goal. Neither team has given up a big return resulting in points.

If you take the sum of points from turnovers and returns, the Cat would be +21 and Michigan +17.

Kenny Allen is 6 for 8 on Field Goals missing 2 of 4 between 40-49 yards.
Jack Mitchell is 10 for 13, missing 2 of 4 between 40-49 and one for 26 yards.

Much like the general offensive and defensive stats, there is not very much to separate the two teams.

 

[shakes3858]

Comments here and on Michigan boards have emphasized the importance of winning the turnover battle and getting points from special teams Saturday. While NU has a big edge in the actual turnover stat, Michigan has a small lead in net points off turnovers. NU has 11 takeaways and only 6 giveaways for a +5, while Michigan has 7 takeaways but has coughed the ball up 9 times for a net of -2.

For Michigan, incredibly, its 9 turnovers have only once converted to points, a pick 6 against Utah. Michigan has converted 3 of its takeaways into touchdowns.

On the other hand, half of the Cats giveaways resulted in opponents scoring, specifically 2 touchdowns and 1 field goal. They have cashed four, three touchdowns and one field goal. From a comparative standpoint, Michigan is +14 points off turnovers, while the cats are +7.

On special teams the Cats have scored one touchdown with a kick return and set up another with a punt return, while giving up no big returns. Michigan had one punt return of 29 yards set up a short field that led to a field goal. Neither team has given up a big return resulting in points.

If you take the sum of points from turnovers and returns, the Cat would be +21 and Michigan +17.

Kenny Allen is 6 for 8 on Field Goals missing 2 of 4 between 40-49 yards.
Jack Mitchell is 10 for 13, missing 2 of 4 between 40-49 and one for 26 yards.

Much like the general offensive and defensive stats, there is not very much to separate the two teams.

Jack Mitchell hit the upright twice. I always thought that should be worth more points. If it hits and bounces in 4 points field goal 2 PAT. Hit and bounce out 5 point field goal 3PAT. Basically, you get more points for living on the edge.


Of course kicking should be removed from the game... But if you gave it this is more fun.

 

[NJCat83588]

Of course kicking should be removed from the game... But if you gave it this is more fun.

I'm with you there. Eliminate the kick off and start at the 25. No more punting. Four downs to make 10 yards. No more FGs or PATs.

Of course, you'd have to change the name of the game since the foot would actually never touch the ball any more.........

 

[Mr. Stupor]

I'm with you there. Eliminate the kick off and start at the 25. No more punting. Four downs to make 10 yards. No more FGs or PATs.

Of course, you'd have to change the name of the game since the foot would actually never touch the ball any more.........

Spoke like a true NU fan that hasn't seen a booming leg in 20 years.

 

[shakes3858]

I'm with you there. Eliminate the kick off and start at the 25. No more punting. Four downs to make 10 yards. No more FGs or PATs.

Of course, you'd have to change the name of the game since the foot would actually never touch the ball any more.........

I'm ok with punting. Field position is part of the game. You replace kick offs with the equivalent of a 4th and 15-20 at a yard line that would often draw a fair catch at the 20 for a good punter.

 

[NJCat83588]

I'm ok with punting. Field position is part of the game. You replace kick offs with the equivalent of a 4th and 15-20 at a yard line that would often draw a fair catch at the 20 for a good punter.

I'm serious. There is nothing more boring than a rugby punt or a kick off into the end zone. Screw any points less than 6. 4th and 3 from your own 18? Throw the damn ball. Get the first down. Kicks and punts are the most dangerous plays in football. Eliminate them and I think you will actually have a better game. Put the ball into the end zone.

 

[iskaboo]

I was talking to a British friend today who just returned from a trip to America. He said he had spent a rainy Sunday watching NFL games. As a rugby fan, he was appalled that American football teams had specialist kickers and punters, rather than just letting one of the regular players handle those duties.

It would make the game a lot different if Justin Jackson or Dan Vitale also had to handle the kicking and punting.

 

[Deeringfish]

I was talking to a British friend today who just returned from a trip to America. He said he had spent a rainy Sunday watching NFL games. As a rugby fan, he was appalled that American football teams had specialist kickers and punters, rather than just letting one of the regular players handle those duties.

It would make the game a lot different if Justin Jackson or Dan Vitale also had to handle the kicking and punting.

I would like to see rule changes that enhanced the value of the kicking game and rules that would invite regular players to quick kick once and a while would be exciting. Such as quick kick on any down less that 4th and anyone can field and advance the ball.

 

[Deeringfish]

Comments here and on Michigan boards have emphasized the importance of winning the turnover battle and getting points from special teams Saturday. While NU has a big edge in the actual turnover stat, Michigan has a small lead in net points off turnovers. NU has 11 takeaways and only 6 giveaways for a +5, while Michigan has 7 takeaways but has coughed the ball up 9 times for a net of -2.

For Michigan, incredibly, its 9 turnovers have only once converted to points, a pick 6 against Utah. Michigan has converted 3 of its takeaways into touchdowns.

On the other hand, half of the Cats giveaways resulted in opponents scoring, specifically 2 touchdowns and 1 field goal. They have cashed four, three touchdowns and one field goal. From a comparative standpoint, Michigan is +14 points off turnovers, while the cats are +7.

On special teams the Cats have scored one touchdown with a kick return and set up another with a punt return, while giving up no big returns. Michigan had one punt return of 29 yards set up a short field that led to a field goal. Neither team has given up a big return resulting in points.

If you take the sum of points from turnovers and returns, the Cat would be +21 and Michigan +17.

Kenny Allen is 6 for 8 on Field Goals missing 2 of 4 between 40-49 yards.
Jack Mitchell is 10 for 13, missing 2 of 4 between 40-49 and one for 26 yards.

Much like the general offensive and defensive stats, there is not very much to separate the two teams.

Getting back to the OP. One of the things that makes this game so interesting and in some ways important to the fans, is the sample size is just on the verge of being meaningful. One conference game and 4 Noncon. games give you a bunch of information that may or may not correlate. We know for example that Stanford and Duke are pretty good teams but we don't know enough about NU to be positive that those games were not aberrations. We hope that Ball State was the aberration.

The evidence so far points to Minny and Maryland being poor teams so neither team can hang their hats confidently on those shutouts except that both teams are B1G teams so the programs hold a certain baseline of talent and staffing and $$$ .

This is the game that "may" (one team could have an aberration) define both teams. A 10-9 victory would prove that both teams have D's that are good as advertised. A lopsided shutout by either team would define the winner as "better at this point of the season" and leave the loser still hoping to prove itself over the next two or three games.

This weekend Minny plays Purdue which is not that helpful unless one team dominates and Maryland plays tOSU which probably will not validate Michigan's win over them either.

What might tell us about our program is the game itself but even losing this game does little to change our chances of being in the B1G championship game.

For a couple more weeks the statistics are still not substantial which is fun for us.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Comments here and on Michigan boards have emphasized the importance of winning the turnover battle and getting points from special teams Saturday. While NU has a big edge in the actual turnover stat, Michigan has a small lead in net points off turnovers. NU has 11 takeaways and only 6 giveaways for a +5, while Michigan has 7 takeaways but has coughed the ball up 9 times for a net of -2.

For Michigan, incredibly, its 9 turnovers have only once converted to points, a pick 6 against Utah. Michigan has converted 3 of its takeaways into touchdowns.

On the other hand, half of the Cats giveaways resulted in opponents scoring, specifically 2 touchdowns and 1 field goal. They have cashed four, three touchdowns and one field goal. From a comparative standpoint, Michigan is +14 points off turnovers, while the cats are +7.

On special teams the Cats have scored one touchdown with a kick return and set up another with a punt return, while giving up no big returns. Michigan had one punt return of 29 yards set up a short field that led to a field goal. Neither team has given up a big return resulting in points.

If you take the sum of points from turnovers and returns, the Cat would be +21 and Michigan +17.

Kenny Allen is 6 for 8 on Field Goals missing 2 of 4 between 40-49 yards.
Jack Mitchell is 10 for 13, missing 2 of 4 between 40-49 and one for 26 yards.

Much like the general offensive and defensive stats, there is not very much to separate the two teams.

Turnovers are always important, but even more so in what seems like it should be a defensive game between pretty evenly matched teams.

 

[shakes3858]

Getting back to the OP. One of the things that makes this game so interesting and in some ways important to the fans, is the sample size is just on the verge of being meaningful. One conference game and 4 Noncon. games give you a bunch of information that may or may not correlate. We know for example that Stanford and Duke are pretty good teams but we don't know enough about NU to be positive that those games were not aberrations. We hope that Ball State was the aberration.

The evidence so far points to Minny and Maryland being poor teams so neither team can hang their hats confidently on those shutouts except that both teams are B1G teams so the programs hold a certain baseline of talent and staffing and $$$ .

This is the game that "may" (one team could have an aberration) define both teams. A 10-9 victory would prove that both teams have D's that are good as advertised. A lopsided shutout by either team would define the winner as "better at this point of the season" and leave the loser still hoping to prove itself over the next two or three games.

This weekend Minny plays Purdue which is not that helpful unless one team dominates and Maryland plays tOSU which probably will not validate Michigan's win over them either.

What might tell us about our program is the game itself but even losing this game does little to change our chances of being in the B1G championship game.

For a couple more weeks the statistics are still not substantial which is fun for us.

Not sure why either Stanford/Duke or Ball State have to be an aberration. We held Ball State to 45 passing yards to players not going to be playing in the NFL next year. That was without a starting safety and his back up for much of the game. I hope 3 turnovers is an aberration, but if you except Thorson to play like a seasoned vet, you're probably asking too much. I think if we played Stanford and Duke 10 more times each, we'd win a lot of those. If we played Ball State 10 more times, many of those games would be closer than we'd want them to be.