What if Collins ...

[Kat burglar]

never dared to do the impossible?

I was looking at Jon Scheyer, while Duke was annihilating Baylor, and thinking That could have been Collins. He was the heir apparent. Scheyer makes twice what Collins does. Scheyer is in the mix for the top 25 recruits each year. Collins, the top 150. Scheyer has history, NBA players, enrollment flexibility and probably NIL that we could only dream of. Collins, not so much. Scheyer looks at deep runs in the NCAA tourney. Collins dreams of that.

What makes a guy give that up and try to do the impossible?

I don't know, but for our sake, I'm glad he did. I'm grateful to him and forever in his debt. He has brought a ton of joy and fun to our program.

 

[GatoLouco]

In retrospect this description makes sense. But, at the time, there were more variables, like when would K retire? Was it clear he was first in line for succession?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

never dared to do the impossible?

I was looking at Jon Scheyer, while Duke was annihilating Baylor, and thinking That could have been Collins. He was the heir apparent. Scheyer makes twice what Collins does. Scheyer is in the mix for the top 25 recruits each year. Collins, the top 150. Scheyer has history, NBA players, enrollment flexibility and probably NIL that we could only dream of. Collins, not so much. Scheyer looks at deep runs in the NCAA tourney. Collins dreams of that.

What makes a guy give that up and try to do the impossible?

I don't know, but for our sake, I'm glad he did. I'm grateful to him and forever in his debt. He has brought a ton of joy and fun to our program.

In retrospect this description makes sense. But, at the time, there were more variables, like when would K retire? Was it clear he was first in line for succession?

Collins came to NU in 2013. Coach K didn’t retire until after the 2022 season. Collins had already been a lead assistant at Duke for over a decade before he left, another decade would be a REALLY long time to wait. Sure Coach K’s timeline might have been different with Collins in Durham, but I don’t blame Collins for leaving when he did at all.

 

[JournCat]

In retrospect this description makes sense. But, at the time, there were more variables, like when would K retire? Was it clear he was first in line for succession?

When K retired, it came down to Scheyer and Tommy Amaker, but Amaker didn’t want to leave Harvard to be K’s lead assistant for the final year and K would have had to push an assistant out to make that happen. (Why the heir apparent had to serve a year with K, I’m not sure, but that’s what Ian O’Connor’s book said.) There were too many potential successors at every point in the last two decades for Collins turn down a major-conference job and hope to wait it out.

As a Collins fan still apologetic about wanting him fired a few years ago, I’d love to see him get a shot at a top-10 or top-20 program just to see if he can win a natty. But that is outweighed by having him here.

 

[zbag51]

When K retired, it came down to Scheyer and Tommy Amaker, but Amaker didn’t want to leave Harvard to be K’s lead assistant for the final year and K would have had to push an assistant out to make that happen. (Why the heir apparent had to serve a year with K, I’m not sure, but that’s what Ian O’Connor’s book said.) There were too many potential successors at every point in the last two decades for Collins turn down a major-conference job and hope to wait it out.

As a Collins fan still apologetic about wanting him fired a few years ago, I’d love to see him get a shot at a top-10 or top-20 program just to see if he can win a natty. But that is outweighed by having him here.

We still don’t know what Collins’ ceiling is here. We’ve got a good core of young freshman this year and his best recruiting class yet coming in. I’m excited to see what the next few years have in store for us!

 

[Hungry Jack]

We did not give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

William Wallace implored his fellow Scots, “They can take our lives, but they can never take our freedom.”

In Taken, the character played by Liam Neeson had nothing but his very specific set of his skills to rescue his daughter from the Albanians.

Great things can happen when one believes.

 

[EagerFan]

I was pondering Collins and Duke this afternoon and it occurred to me that it is highly likely he has become a far superior coach in most respects by coming to NU rather than staying at Duke because of the challenges and adversity he has had to overcome that never would have come up at Duke.

All of the things mentioned in this thread that Duke has that NU does not create a level of privilege that I suspect severely retard the growth potential of coaches who have never operated outside of that system/world.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I was pondering Collins and Duke this afternoon and it occurred to me that it is highly likely he has become a far superior coach in most respects by coming to NU rather than staying at Duke because of the challenges and adversity he has had to overcome that never would have come up at Duke.

All of the things mentioned in this thread that Duke has that NU does not create a level of privilege that I suspect severely retard the growth potential of coaches who have never operated outside of that system/world.

Stretch. Big big stretch.

 

[hdhntr1]

never dared to do the impossible?

I was looking at Jon Scheyer, while Duke was annihilating Baylor, and thinking That could have been Collins. He was the heir apparent. Scheyer makes twice what Collins does. Scheyer is in the mix for the top 25 recruits each year. Collins, the top 150. Scheyer has history, NBA players, enrollment flexibility and probably NIL that we could only dream of. Collins, not so much. Scheyer looks at deep runs in the NCAA tourney. Collins dreams of that.

What makes a guy give that up and try to do the impossible?

I don't know, but for our sake, I'm glad he did. I'm grateful to him and forever in his debt. He has brought a ton of joy and fun to our program.

Collins was ready to spread his wings then. And it was thought that when coach K finally hung it up, they would likely go after the best of the HCs that had left the nest. That they went with a guy with not HC experience was a surprise. But then Coach K sort of stuck around long enough that Scheyer could get the experience he needed within the program to run it.

 

[Catreporter]

When K retired, it came down to Scheyer and Tommy Amaker, but Amaker didn’t want to leave Harvard to be K’s lead assistant for the final year and K would have had to push an assistant out to make that happen. (Why the heir apparent had to serve a year with K, I’m not sure, but that’s what Ian O’Connor’s book said.) There were too many potential successors at every point in the last two decades for Collins turn down a major-conference job and hope to wait it out.

As a Collins fan still apologetic about wanting him fired a few years ago, I’d love to see him get a shot at a top-10 or top-20 program just to see if he can win a natty. But that is outweighed by having him here.

I wonder if Amaker is having second thoughts. Harvard has really slumped the last few years. I don't think they have even made the Ivy final four lately. Then again, some people aren't always looking to climb the next rung of the ladder.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

What makes a guy give that up and try to do the impossible?

Collins didn't "give up the Duke job."
He was never offered it.
He would have had to be an assistant at Duke for 20+ years before Coach K finally quit.
Was he in the mix after that happened?
I think so, but it wasn't offered. And yes, Collins would have taken it.

 

[curdog]

Stretch. Big big stretch.

I think the string of failed coaches who were former Duke players/asst coaches gives this some credence. Amaker, Woj, Capel, Hurley come to mind.

 

[curdog]

never dared to do the impossible?

I was looking at Jon Scheyer, while Duke was annihilating Baylor, and thinking That could have been Collins. He was the heir apparent. Scheyer makes twice what Collins does. Scheyer is in the mix for the top 25 recruits each year. Collins, the top 150. Scheyer has history, NBA players, enrollment flexibility and probably NIL that we could only dream of. Collins, not so much. Scheyer looks at deep runs in the NCAA tourney. Collins dreams of that.

What makes a guy give that up and try to do the impossible?

I don't know, but for our sake, I'm glad he did. I'm grateful to him and forever in his debt. He has brought a ton of joy and fun to our program.

I wonder what will happen to Duke bball if the ACC gets raided and Duke does not get a seat at the big boy table (SEC BIG). I think it’s unlikely that they wouldn’t’t but not impossible.

 

[GatoLouco]

What’s this nonsense about Amaker? By the time K retired he had bombed at MI and, after some rule change that benefited Harvard, was bombing there too. Today, still bombing. Consistent bomber

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I wonder what will happen to Duke bball if the ACC gets raided and Duke does not get a seat at the big boy table (SEC BIG). I think it’s unlikely that they wouldn’t’t but not impossible.

Merge strongest members of ACC and Big East and you have a basketball super league.

 

[Sec.112]

Sounds like the O'Connor book gives JournCat the best source in this thread.

I always thought it was Capel or Wojo who would have the upper hand for the gig before CC. I thought both were more highly regarded when they took over more established programs.

I still can't believe Duke did the inexperienced, in-house roll of the dice with such an established program. How many missteps have incredible programs taken in the last 30 or 40 years with the in-house guy? How many incredible programs in the last 30-40 have made such a smooth transition from previous greatness? It's really to be admired.

And in my most meatball way, I absolutely hate that the Duke thing has continued on.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

I wonder what will happen to Duke bball if the ACC gets raided and Duke does not get a seat at the big boy table (SEC BIG). I think it’s unlikely that they wouldn’t’t but not impossible.

They will still likely have the donor support and brand name to be an elite basketball name, but they'll have to focus their institutional resources more than they do already to do so. Same way the top Big East programs operate and why a schol like Villanova is looking at paying big NIL bucks for players and taking Big Ten coaches away.

 

[hdhntr1]

We still don’t know what Collins’ ceiling is here. We’ve got a good core of young freshman this year and his best recruiting class yet coming in. I’m excited to see what the next few years have in store for us!

Hopefully he has learned a lot from his last Best Recruiting Class. I think that was the Nance, Kopp class of 2018. Great expectations and while it turned out OK it was not great. I think he has determined that he needs more of the lunch pail guys that bond and work together.

 

[Hkjb]

Stretch. Big big stretch.

It's a stretch to the extent that anything hypothetical is a stretch. But the idea that overcoming adversity and challenges forges unique skill/talent is no stretch at all. It's proven. Otherwise Brazil wouldn't be great at football/soccer, Ethiopia would not dominate distance running, and Saudi Arabia would be accepted as the best-governed country on earth, enabled by all that oil money. Tailwinds don't develop skill/competency- arguably they do the opposite.

For many years, I worked with closely with a company known globally for a particular skill, and for training that skill. The company was a well oiled machine. Thing is - when their star leaders were headhunted for roles in other companies, they failed for the most part. They were rally bad at dealing with all the real-world challenges from which they were insulated when they were in the company. They couldn't compete with others who had to learn through hard knocks.

Let's suppose it was possible to do a head-to-head between Scheyer and Collins, 10 games apiece with the same resources, fan base, facilities, assistant coaching talent and players. My money's on Collins, every day of the week.

 

[curdog]

They will still likely have the donor support and brand name to be an elite basketball name, but they'll have to focus their institutional resources more than they do already to do so. Same way the top Big East programs operate and why a schol like Villanova is looking at paying big NIL bucks for players and taking Big Ten coaches away.

What league you play in matters, even for Duke. If UNC, Clemson, UVA, FSU leave ACC, that conference would be at the bottom of any power conference ranking. Would be difficult to maintain elite status in a 2nd tier conference.

 

[curdog]

Merge strongest members of ACC and Big East and you have a basketball super league.

Big East is bball only. I don’t think Duke would leave the football program in the wilderness (see UCONN).

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Big East is bball only. I don’t think Duke would leave the football program in the wilderness (see UCONN).

I think if and when the ACC fully dies, Duke is going to be staring that choice in the face TBH. Maintaining a legitimate football program outside a power conference while also having the right basketball opponents will be an issue. I GUESS they could try to go Gonzaga and rule the A10 or something, but... it's hard.

They could always hope UNC drags them with somewhere, it's plausible, they're a legitimate basketball brand that might make them one of the few truly profitable non-football revenue generators. Maybe at a partial share, kind of thing. I could see them landing a spot in the Big 12 or Big Ten that way.

 

[CatChatAR]

When K retired, it came down to Scheyer and Tommy Amaker, but Amaker didn’t want to leave Harvard to be K’s lead assistant for the final year and K would have had to push an assistant out to make that happen. (Why the heir apparent had to serve a year with K, I’m not sure, but that’s what Ian O’Connor’s book said.) There were too many potential successors at every point in the last two decades for Collins turn down a major-conference job and hope to wait it out.

As a Collins fan still apologetic about wanting him fired a few years ago, I’d love to see him get a shot at a top-10 or top-20 program just to see if he can win a natty. But that is outweighed by having him here.

I always thought that Collins helped get Scheyer the job. Collins tried to hire him to be his top assistant and I thought he said yes but then quietly returned to the bench at Duke. I just figured that they gave Scheyer a super quiet coach in waiting tag after that.

 

[curdog]

I think if and when the ACC fully dies, Duke is going to be staring that choice in the face TBH. Maintaining a legitimate football program outside a power conference while also having the right basketball opponents will be an issue. I GUESS they could try to go Gonzaga and rule the A10 or something, but... it's hard.

They could always hope UNC drags them with somewhere, it's plausible, they're a legitimate basketball brand that might make them one of the few truly profitable non-football revenue generators. Maybe at a partial share, kind of thing. I could see them landing a spot in the Big 12 or Big Ten that way.

I think if UNC could bring someone with them it would be NC st. At this point, I don’t think package deals are an option. We saw Oregon and Oregon st split, Washington and wash st split. Duke hoops might be a big enough brand that the BIG or SEC will take them. The future is definitely murky if you are a Duke fan

 

[AdamOnFirst]

I think if UNC could bring someone with them it would be NC st. At this point, I don’t think package deals are an option. We saw Oregon and Oregon st split, Washington and wash st split. Duke hoops might be a big enough brand that the BIG or SEC will take them. The future is definitely murky if you are a Duke fan

I think all that is correct