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Where the Cats are, have been, and will be with Collins as coach

eastbaycat99

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Mar 7, 2009
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I was really relieved the Cats pulled out the win Sunday over Illinois. They may well beat Iowa tonight and start a climb to the upper middle of the conference, or they may lose a close one and be on the brink of a spiral down, which is the main reason I am writing this post.

Watching the team this year, I have been scratching my head. Two players, Pardon and Law, are great examples of the best of the Collins years. They have both developed, play with heart as well as skill, and seem to both embody leadership when they are on the floor. There are two transfers, Turner and Taylor, who were clearly recruited to plug holes and bring a higher level of talent than the Cats have generally put on the floor in the course of the almost 50 years I have followed them. Finally, there is the rest of the roster, with playing time and roles varying from night to night, clearly missing some areas of skill that one of the last few year’s point guard recruiting misses would have been hoped to fill.

As a team, the design has seemed a little incoherent to me. They are more athletically talented than maybe any NU team in 50 years, but some nights the defensive scheme breaks down, some nights there seems to be little movement in the half court, most nights there are breakdowns in ball handling, and in a few recent games the substitution patterns have left the team gassed and unable to finish.

The long and short of it is that it appears to me that The Chris Collins tenure as NU’s Coach is at a crossroads.

I am hard pressed to think of who could have had even a possibility of the success Collins has brought the Cats since his hiring. The Cats have had certifiably top tier coaches (Winters and Foster) who could not recruit players, a coach whose technical skill (Carmody) brought them to the edge of competitiveness, but no one has been able to bring in the talent Collins has, even with its degree of incompletion, and get to the tournament. I really feel that he brought, from a marketing perspective, a unique confluence of credibility (the long Duke connection and the association in the Chicago area with his Dad’s success) at a time the university was both enjoying some success in football and investing in facilities, making it all attractive to incoming players. He was the right person for a unique time.

Having said that, I think the limitations he has as a coach, both tactically and strategically, are becoming apparent. From a tactical perspective, he sometimes seems to lose control of situations and matchups as a game wears on, and the game slips away. From a strategic perspective, he has made some poor recruiting decisions at point guard, and I question whether his decision to deploy the two transfers this year rather than going to ground and rebuilding, with younger players gaining experience, is a wise one.

It is possible the Cats will right the ship and this team will start to excel. As a long time fan though, what I have seen on the floor this year, and what I read about off the floor (I have no insider knowledge at all) has been disappointing to me. Rather than watch the games live, I have been recording and zipping through them, in large part because outside of Law and Pardon, I find little compelling to me. If the season continues as it has gone so far, I would not be too disappointed if Collins found a greener grass situation, and NU, with a rebuilt arena and some talent in the current classes, found someone who could rebuild the team’s identity and rekindle my interest.
 
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At a crossroads? Nah.

Collins has recruited precisely one class of players since taking NU to the NCAA Tournament (Nance, Kopp, Greer, Young) and the players he has recruited with the benefit of the new stadium are still in high school. As others have said, let the process play out and let’s see what NU looks like when the current freshmen are upperclassmen.

There have been several unfortunate developments (Vassar aside) that have derailed any sort of depth emerging at NU. Notably, Ivanauskas and Falzon, both high 3-star, low 4-star Stretch 4s, we’re decimated by injury very early in their careers. They were the best recruits in their class! And NU never saw them reach their potential because of something out of Collins’s control.

The lead guard situation was a problem but not all that unexpected given that BMac was so good for so long. No top recruit wants to be a bench player, and particularly not at Northwestern, the team once known for never making the Big Dance. That may change now. Collins seemed to have his pick of guys for the incoming class. And, not his fault that what happened with Lathon happened.

Look, I sense the frustration. What I am hoping for this year is to send Law and Pardon off with at least a run in the NIT. This is probably not “the year.” It’s about getting a little bit of momentum back after last year’s debacle so Collins can sell the program to players in the 2019 and 2020 classes and fill out the lineup with Kopp, Beran and Nance. I still have a lot of confidence he will do so.
 
I would feel better if I could detect a design or purpose for the team this year. They have physical talent. If they were consistently playing tenacious defense, or moving without the ball, I would be ok. If Nance and Kopp were playing key minutes, building for the future, I would be ok.

Building a team around Kopp, Beran and Nance next year, with some fill ins and without a signature style strikes me a a real loss of momentum. They may make the NIT this year, but next year, without Pardon and Law, I will bet they don’t. If this is true, that would be 1 NCAA and 1 NIT in 7 years at the helm. It would also mean a real loss of momentum: 2 no tournament years and 1 NIT after the Cats’ big year. I hope I am wrong, but as I said, I am finding this team to be very hard to enjoy or be patient with.
 
Build from the ground up? CCC would have been crucified if he didn’t make a legitimate effort to win with Law and Pardon in their last year. Say what you want, but I don’t remember a better pair as Seniors together in quite awhile. Law is the most talented player we have had in the last decade and will play professionally for a long time. Might even have an outside shot at the NBA. Pardon is a personal favorite of mine. Gets everything possible out of his ability. Who recruited them?

Bringing in The transfers was a no brainer. We get a few seasons of Turner and he stepped right in as a starter. Taylor filled the glaring deficiency of a lack of a shooter. I can’t help but think how much better Taylor would be with a true point guard. If he gets the ball in the right position he can drain the shots.

I am not sure what you are referencing with “what you read about off the floor” that disappoints you. CCC is a marketing dream next to some of his predecessors. NU is not a joke anymore that gets streamrolled in every game and the rest of the conference clearly respects and understands this.

People that think a school like NU can go from easily the worst program in the B1G to perennial contender in 4 years are dreaming. It is incremental steps and CCC has taken them. As many have documented in recent threads, we have recruited more ranked talent than ever before with CCC. That is an indisputable fact.

Now, I believe CCC needs to improve in some area’s, just like most Coaches. IMO, 1) he needs to trust his young guys and let them play through some errors. 2) his in game adjustments (think zone/man) have to be quicker. 3) he can be better in finding combo’s that work during dry spells (think a short stint of Pardon/Benson). 4) he can’t get caught short with a position in recruiting by a injury/defection (PG).

We are not great by any means this year, but CCC expected to have a ready PG. If he did, I suspect we would have 3 more wins than we do now. Next year you will have a field day because I see it as a rebuilding year where anything above the bottom third in the conference would be surprising. To me, suggesting CCC looks for greener grass would be silly.
 
I agree with you Eastbay, watching that NU-Illinois game was painful -- some really bad basketball there. There is not a lot compelling about this NU team, other than I'm always excited to root for the Cats. And I agree that there doesn't seem to be a guiding strategy or identity for the program right now. Under Carmody, despite all his flaws, we knew what the Cats were -- a zone defensive team and a three-point shooting team out of the Princeton offense. And he was pretty successful in recruiting players that fit that design. Even if they weren't terribly talented, and not up to the "star ratings" of what Collins has brought in. I think the ceiling for this year's team is the NIT, and that's WITH Pardon and Law. Next year's team will be far more inexperienced and, depending on what the freshmen bring, perhaps a bit less talented. It's hard to believe Collins is in his sixth season, and yet we are HOPING for the NIT this year, and maybe next year.
 
I agree with you Eastbay, watching that NU-Illinois game was painful -- some really bad basketball there. There is not a lot compelling about this NU team, other than I'm always excited to root for the Cats. And I agree that there doesn't seem to be a guiding strategy or identity for the program right now. Under Carmody, despite all his flaws, we knew what the Cats were -- a zone defensive team and a three-point shooting team out of the Princeton offense. And he was pretty successful in recruiting players that fit that design. Even if they weren't terribly talented, and not up to the "star ratings" of what Collins has brought in. I think the ceiling for this year's team is the NIT, and that's WITH Pardon and Law. Next year's team will be far more inexperienced and, depending on what the freshmen bring, perhaps a bit less talented. It's hard to believe Collins is in his sixth season, and yet we are HOPING for the NIT this year, and maybe next year.
So let me get this straight, Carmody was successful recruiting his kind of players that fit his system, yet that system never went to the dance and that is somehow compelling?
 
I understand your frustration, EBC. It would have been great if the NCAA year was an immediate springboard to annual success. But, as our guy Theo always says, progress isn't linear. Injuries happen. The team gets exiled to the soul-sucking oblivion of the Allstate Arena for a year. Off-the-court issues cost you your most important recruit.
Still they were one made basket away from beating Indiana on the road and Michigan and Oklahoma at home. I know Coach Collins doesn't get paid for moral victories, but the idea that he should even consider looking toward the future early in the senior season of two of the best players in program history just offends my basketball sensibilities. Law and Pardon have given their hearts and souls to this team. Going all in on the 2018-19 season was the only option.
 
There was no design for this year’s team, due to the lack of players - due to non-performance, transfer, injury, or some combination. Turner’s transfer was an indication that the recruiting pipeline wasn’t bearing fruit as hoped. Taylor is what grad transfers, even the best ones, are: a risk-free lottery ticket.
 
Glad to see optimism. In answer To Purple Pile Driver, the disappointment off court is Vasser, Lathon and to an extent Brown.

The points you make about his in game coaching are part of it. He is 6 years as a head coach, and I would hope the particular deficiencies would be fixed by now.

I would have been perfectly happy if he had recruited a point guard of apparently higher maturity but possibly lesser skill rather than Lathon, mixed him with one transfer and more minutes for Kopp, playing a defense oriented year and reaching the NIT this year.

I think he was the right guy at the time. I don’t think he will be able to build a sustainably successful team in Evanston, and would not mind getting a new hire who could build on the new arena and getting off the NCAA never been list.
 
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So let me get this straight, Carmody was successful recruiting his kind of players that fit his system, yet that system never went to the dance and that is somehow compelling?
Yeah, there were times when watching Carmody's teams was a lot of fun. That night they rained down threes on MSU and beat them in East Lansing, for example. And hey, beating Michigan on the miracle pass to Pardon and going to the NCAA tournament under Collins was VERY compelling. Thoroughly enjoyed it. But I agree with Eastbay in that I think Collins and his staff right now are at a crossroads -- the program seems stuck in neutral, and one of the symptoms of that is not having an identity right now. Is it terrible? Hell no, and it is certainly reversible. A win tonight, and some momentum down the stretch, maybe a signature upset win along the way, and things get interesting. But they certainly could go the other direction, and next year does not, at least from this very far observation point, look all that great. So yeah, I think the Chris Collins Era is as yet undefined and still could go either direction.
 
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To me, last year, this year, and possibly next year are akin to the two 5-7 years in football in 2013 and 2014, following up on the program’s first bowl win in decades. We all saw what happened next — the winningest senior class in history.

It probably won’t be so neat for the basketball team. But look at where we are: an NCAA Tournament appearance, a massive arena renovation and we have some enormously talented young wings. It only takes one or two big recruiting wins to change a program’s trajectory. Collins can make that happen. If Nance is able to develop into a force after this offseason, maybe Collins already has.

In the meantime, he’s adjusting to the players he has, given the unexpected loss of basically his entire pipeline of Lead Guards and Stretch 4s.
 
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Glad to see optimism. In answer To Purple Pile Driver, the disappointment off court is Vasser, Lathon and to an extent Brown.

The points you make about his in game coaching are part of it. He is 6 years as a head coach, and I would hope the particular deficiencies would be fixed by now.

I would have been perfectly happy if he had recruited a point guard of apparently higher maturity but possibly lesser skill rather than Lathon, mixed him with one transfer and more minutes for Kopp, playing a defense oriented year and reaching the NIT this year.

I think he was the right guy at the time. I don’t think he will be able to build a sustainably successful team in Evanston, and would not mind getting a new hire who could build on the new arena and getting off the NCAA never been list.
I have to disagree that it is time to look for a new Coach. CCC at minimum should be able to see the Kopp, Nance class through. I also think it unfair to blame the Lathon situation on CCC. If Lathon had known character “red flags” I would agree, but to my knowledge there were not any past transgressions. By all accounts, he was a mature kid. There was no reason to take a lesser skilled kid.

Brown was a recruiting miss. To me this is not an off the court miss, but an on the court miss. It happens to all Coaches. Vassar was obviously not a good fit and CCC biggest recruiting flub. None of us on this board know the true story of what really went down with Vassar. There is a side of the story that went public and another side that has not. What I do believe is Dr. Jim would not have turned a blind eye on the situation if the allegations from the Vassar came were proven out.

We inexplicably kept Carmody for 13 years when he recruited as if he was Coach K. Running out CCC in half the time with better results is short sighted IMO.
 
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I have to disagree that it is time to look for a new Coach. CCC at minimum should be able to see the Kopp, Nance class through. I also think it unfair to blame the Lathon situation on CCC. If Lathon had known character “red flags” I would agree, but to my knowledge there were not any past transgressions. By all accounts, he was a mature kid. There was no reason to take a lesser skilled kid.

Brown was a recruiting miss. To me this is not an off the court miss, but an on the court miss. It happens to all Coaches. Vassar was obviously not a good fit and CCC biggest recruiting flub. None of us on this board know the true story of what really went down with Vassar. There is a side of the story that went public and another side that has not. What I do believe is Dr. Jim would not have turned a blind eye on the situation if the allegations from the Vassar came were proven out.

We inexplicably kept Carmody for 13 years when he recruited as if he was Coach K. Running out CCC in half the time with better results is short sighted IMO.

I’m not advocating firing Collins as much as not fighting very hard to keep him if an opportunity came along. I think he is smart enough to be able to see is success is on the horizon, and walk away if not.
 
EBC and Idaho, what should be the program's identity?

That is a really good question. I think a team designed like Wisconsin’s fits best in the long run. I think a physically bigger team that emphasizes interior defense, based on player development over a full four year stay using 3 star recruits fits what recruiting advantages (top flight academics, supportive environment) NU has. It is a tough place to succeed, and I am appreciative of what Collins has done. I do think it is possible that we could be at the start of a few poor years that could erase some of the gains that have been made.
 
I think this is a bit nuts, sorry. Program is currently in it's best state ever... the program, maybe not this specific team. New arena and facilities (still in construction), in early on some legit All B1G type recruits, consistently landing top 150 players now. From where this program has been, I think you are way, way off on your expectations if you believe NU should already be a perennial tourney team. Trust the process. Just like in football, many fans want to see returns on facilities investment before they are even complete. Doesn't work that way.
 
I think the first time to make a serious call on Collins is after the 2020-21 season. If the team is still struggling to make the postseason at that point, it's fair to think he's not the guy. Given the horrible recruiting luck he's had and the introduction of new facilities, it would be unfair to make any kind of decision until at least the end of that season.
 
Build from the ground up? CCC would have been crucified if he didn’t make a legitimate effort to win with Law and Pardon in their last year. Say what you want, but I don’t remember a better pair as Seniors together in quite awhile. Law is the most talented player we have had in the last decade and will play professionally for a long time. Might even have an outside shot at the NBA. Pardon is a personal favorite of mine. Gets everything possible out of his ability. Who recruited them?

Bringing in The transfers was a no brainer. We get a few seasons of Turner and he stepped right in as a starter. Taylor filled the glaring deficiency of a lack of a shooter. I can’t help but think how much better Taylor would be with a true point guard. If he gets the ball in the right position he can drain the shots.

I am not sure what you are referencing with “what you read about off the floor” that disappoints you. CCC is a marketing dream next to some of his predecessors. NU is not a joke anymore that gets streamrolled in every game and the rest of the conference clearly respects and understands this.

People that think a school like NU can go from easily the worst program in the B1G to perennial contender in 4 years are dreaming. It is incremental steps and CCC has taken them. As many have documented in recent threads, we have recruited more ranked talent than ever before with CCC. That is an indisputable fact.

Now, I believe CCC needs to improve in some area’s, just like most Coaches. IMO, 1) he needs to trust his young guys and let them play through some errors. 2) his in game adjustments (think zone/man) have to be quicker. 3) he can be better in finding combo’s that work during dry spells (think a short stint of Pardon/Benson). 4) he can’t get caught short with a position in recruiting by a injury/defection (PG).

We are not great by any means this year, but CCC expected to have a ready PG. If he did, I suspect we would have 3 more wins than we do now. Next year you will have a field day because I see it as a rebuilding year where anything above the bottom third in the conference would be surprising. To me, suggesting CCC looks for greener grass would be silly.

Lathom would also be a freshman. Most freshman don’t excel. CCC was never prepared at LG for this season.
 
I think this is a bit nuts, sorry. Program is currently in it's best state ever... the program, maybe not this specific team. New arena and facilities (still in construction), in early on some legit All B1G type recruits, consistently landing top 150 players now. From where this program has been, I think you are way, way off on your expectations if you believe NU should already be a perennial tourney team. Trust the process. Just like in football, many fans want to see returns on facilities investment before they are even complete. Doesn't work that way.

I hope you are right. Maybe this team will come together, play some compelling ball and move up the standings. Maybe Kopp and Nance will start to step up and develop this year and he team will be respectable next year, rebuilding and growing. I will gladly eat crow. As I said in my original post, I sense a point where things could go either way.
 
It is tough to make the tourney without a tradition of success. There are schools who offer a little something extra to get high 4-star recruits (see Diamond Stone of Maryland otherwise known as Under Armour U). Collins now has facilities and recruited his first class with those facilities led by Kopp and Nance. Greer was a good find and maybe Young matures into a bigger Skelly. Overall, much more talented squad than we have seen in years at NU. It is tough to sustain big improvements at a Power Conference school without giving something extra. (See recent and current FBI case for a list of 10-15 schools implicated).
 
I think this is a bit nuts, sorry. Program is currently in it's best state ever... the program, maybe not this specific team. New arena and facilities (still in construction), in early on some legit All B1G type recruits, consistently landing top 150 players now. From where this program has been, I think you are way, way off on your expectations if you believe NU should already be a perennial tourney team. Trust the process. Just like in football, many fans want to see returns on facilities investment before they are even complete. Doesn't work that way.

^This guy gets it
 
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Glad to see optimism. In answer To Purple Pile Driver, the disappointment off court is Vasser, Lathon and to an extent Brown.

The points you make about his in game coaching are part of it. He is 6 years as a head coach, and I would hope the particular deficiencies would be fixed by now.

I would have been perfectly happy if he had recruited a point guard of apparently higher maturity but possibly lesser skill rather than Lathon, mixed him with one transfer and more minutes for Kopp, playing a defense oriented year and reaching the NIT this year.

I think he was the right guy at the time. I don’t think he will be able to build a sustainably successful team in Evanston, and would not mind getting a new hire who could build on the new arena and getting off the NCAA never been list.

They had, still have an open schollie and should have started adding another PG anyway.
 
It is tough to make the tourney without a tradition of success. There are schools who offer a little something extra to get high 4-star recruits (see Diamond Stone of Maryland otherwise known as Under Armour U). Collins now has facilities and recruited his first class with those facilities led by Kopp and Nance. Greer was a good find and maybe Young matures into a bigger Skelly. Overall, much more talented squad than we have seen in years at NU. It is tough to sustain big improvements at a Power Conference school without giving something extra. (See recent and current FBI case for a list of 10-15 schools implicated).

Nance, Kopp, Beran and others were not recruited based on facilities. These recruits came as a result of CCC's pitch, NU as a school, and the NCAA season. The 2020 class will be the first truly impacted by the new arena and practice facilities. Same timeframes as football with Fitz Carlton Resort. Patience grasshopper.
 
I get the frustration, EBC, 'cause I got it too - and it's baaad.

It's gonna take CAT DEVOTION to watch the Iowa game. You shall never attain a Croix de NU by recording games. Get ur dead and dyin' ass out there and get behind the team.
 
It seems to me the identity CCC is working on is strong defense with some transition offense and A bit of a weave.

Every season is “the crossroads” to fans.
 
Don't look now, but KenPom gives NU only a 49 percent chance to win against Rutgers, and is predicting a five-game losing streak from this point forward. I think it's fair to say that now, in his sixth season as coach at NU, we would have expected Collins and his staff to have established a solid foundation, at least for a consistently competitive program. Not saying going to the NCAA tournament every year, but rather a program that wins the majority of its non-conference games, at least makes the NIT every season and has an identifiable identity of what it wants to be. It looks like this is going to be another season without a post-season, if you will, and next year, which I know is a l-o-n-g way away, doesn't project too well with our two best players graduating. At some point, you have to stop the Collins vs. Carmody narrative and instead, the Collins regime has to stand on its own merits. It has to start winning close games, executing a respectable offense and developing a compelling identity.
 
Don't look now, but KenPom gives NU only a 49 percent chance to win against Rutgers, and is predicting a five-game losing streak from this point forward. I think it's fair to say that now, in his sixth season as coach at NU, we would have expected Collins and his staff to have established a solid foundation, at least for a consistently competitive program. Not saying going to the NCAA tournament every year, but rather a program that wins the majority of its non-conference games, at least makes the NIT every season and has an identifiable identity of what it wants to be. It looks like this is going to be another season without a post-season, if you will, and next year, which I know is a l-o-n-g way away, doesn't project too well with our two best players graduating. At some point, you have to stop the Collins vs. Carmody narrative and instead, the Collins regime has to stand on its own merits. It has to start winning close games, executing a respectable offense and developing a compelling identity.
If NU can't win 6 more games, Collins and Carmody will have had the same number of winning seasons in their first 6 years at NU.

Just sayin'.
 
Don't look now, but KenPom gives NU only a 49 percent chance to win against Rutgers, and is predicting a five-game losing streak from this point forward. I think it's fair to say that now, in his sixth season as coach at NU, we would have expected Collins and his staff to have established a solid foundation, at least for a consistently competitive program. Not saying going to the NCAA tournament every year, but rather a program that wins the majority of its non-conference games, at least makes the NIT every season and has an identifiable identity of what it wants to be. It looks like this is going to be another season without a post-season, if you will, and next year, which I know is a l-o-n-g way away, doesn't project too well with our two best players graduating. At some point, you have to stop the Collins vs. Carmody narrative and instead, the Collins regime has to stand on its own merits. It has to start winning close games, executing a respectable offense and developing a compelling identity.
Or what?
 
You would have to be slow to think the program now is even remotely in the same place it was after 6 years of BC.
It's not. But when Collins was hired I thought NU would have winning seasons more than 1 out of every 3 years. Yes, the NCAA season was spectacular. But I didn't expect the next two years would be losing seasons. Forget the Carmody comparison, Collins has not been what I thought he would be. Looking for improvement in the coming years.
 
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It's not. But when Collins was hired I thought NU would have winning seasons more than 1 out of every 3 years. Yes, the NCAA season was spectacular. But I didn't expect the next two years would be losing seasons. Forget the Carmody comparison, Collins has not been what I thought he would be. Looking for improvement in the coming years.
Ok, I think we all were expected much more last year and it was a train wreck. This year has been about what I thought it would be. Very average at best. Losing close games because of a glaring weakness. It is getting close to the point where you play the youngsters more for development as a bid to even the NIT looks distant. Overall, it is reasonable to think we should have been able to creep into a bid the last two years. This is disappointing and CCC bears the lions share of the responsibility.

Having said that his first class made the dance. Let’s see if the second wave does. If it doesn’t, the vultures will circle. I expect the Freshman will take huge leaps next year. Not enough to make us a tourney team, but enough to increase our optimism that we will dance in the 20-21 season. The 3 guys joining the team next year, will likely contribute more than this Freshman class due to having an opportunity. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
 
On one hand, I look at this thread as a positive. I'm glad our expectation have grown beyond NITs as a good goal. NU isn't even two years removed from a tourney and a strong chance at Sweet 16, and this is the response?!?!

Oh my, how things have changed.

Collins has his weaknesses, but I think a lot of you are grasping at straws for whatever reason. It surprises me that everybody is focusing on the Xs and Os. There were not these strong complaints two years ago.

For me, the talent on this team leaves a lot to be desired, but this thread seems to stuck on Collins' strategy. Do you really think another coach would coax much more out of this group? There's no size advantage (who remembers that discussion?). Not a ton of outside shooters and no established lead guard. It's also pretty easy to drive the lane on this team. Has NU defended any big man well this year? Where would Law, our best player, fall in the rotation of teams in the top half of the league?

And that's just the start of the list.

I don't care what system you're running. If you want to criticize Collins about this year and you leave talent out of the equation, I think your premise is wrong.

EBC, I appreciate your answer to the identity question and I think you have the right idea. Also, I think you're about to get part of your wish with a longer team. It's one of many examples I see how Collins adjusts to his team - a good sign for me. I think a lot of people are forgetting the adjustments Collins has tried to make because of his lack of a point guard.

I think we have example after example of Collins adjusting to that particular group. In every sport, I'll take the coach who adjusts to his talent any day of the week, rather than the guy who lives and dies with his system ... or identity.

If you want to tell me Collins is slow to adjust, I won't disagree with you at all. If you want to tell me this team doesn't have the talent to compete this year, no argument there. That's on Collins and it's one of several issues. But to jump on his Xs and Os ignores that this group doesn't really have foundational talent.

I hope that talent is on its way. It seems like it is ... fingers crossed.
 
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I get the frustration, EBC, 'cause I got it too - and it's baaad.

It's gonna take CAT DEVOTION to watch the Iowa game. You shall never attain a Croix de NU by recording games. Get ur dead and dyin' ass out there and get behind the team.

Just a word to defend my Croix: It is a 2200 mile plane ride to watch the Cats in person, and electronic transmission is my only choice. When I travel to the Midwest, I always try to synch my schedule if possible to visit WR.

Having said that, part of what prompted me to start the thread is that with the time zone differential, starting times are often inconvenient: the Illinois game started at 10 Sunday morning (church time for me), and last night’s game was at 6 (shortly before dinner time per Mrs. EBC). In years past I would have tried to rearrange things when possible to watch live. This year, it does not seem worth the effort. Since I am a ridiculous Cat homer, I think I am also the proverbial canary in the coal mine. If I am losing interest, something is wrong. The last time I felt this way was in the KON era. This is not as bad as then - he is the only coach I wanted NU to fire (I even tried to see the best in John Pont, but I was young a relatively foolish).
My main point is that if Some team takes an interest in hiring Collins (say Stanford or USC) I am starting to think Phillips should not try to bribe him to stay, but rather give him a heartfelt handshake of thanks and wave good bye.
 
On one hand, I look at this thread as a positive. I'm glad our expectation have grown beyond NITs as a good goal. NU isn't even two years removed from a tourney and a strong chance at Sweet 16, and this is the response?!?!

Oh my, how things have changed.

Collins has his weaknesses, but I think a lot of you are grasping at straws for whatever reason. It surprises me that everybody is focusing on the Xs and Os. There were not these strong complaints two years ago.

For me, the talent on this team leaves a lot to be desired, but this thread seems to stuck on Collins' strategy. Do you really think another coach would coax much more out of this group? There's no size advantage (who remembers that discussion?). Not a ton of outside shooters and no established lead guard. It's also pretty easy to drive the lane on this team. Has NU defended any big man well this year? Where would Law, our best player, fall in the rotation of teams in the top half of the league?

And that's just the start of the list.

I don't care what system you're running. If you want to criticize Collins about this year and you leave talent out of the equation, I think your premise is wrong.

EBC, I appreciate your answer to the identity question and I think you have the right idea. Also, I think you're about to get part of your wish with a longer team. It's one of many examples I see how Collins adjusts to his team - a good sign for me. I think a lot of people are forgetting the adjustments Collins has tried to make because of his lack of a point guard.

I think we have example after example of Collins adjusting to that particular group. In every sport, I'll take the coach who adjusts to his talent any day of the week, rather than the guy who lives and dies with his system ... or identity.

If you want to tell me Collins is slow to adjust, I won't disagree with you at all. If you want to tell me this team doesn't have the talent to compete this year, no argument there. That's on Collins and it's one of several issues. But to jump on his Xs and Os ignores that this group doesn't really have foundational talent.

I hope that talent is on its way. It seems like it is ... fingers crossed.

112, thanks for your thoughtful post and request. To answer, my concern is not based only on his game coaching, but also on his longer term strategy for building the team and giving it an identity. Simply put, he was not able to get a point guard for this team, which is putting it at a big disadvantage. He decided to use two short term plug ins to try to salvage the season rather than give minutes to younger players who could use the development. Both of those decisions are making me think this year is pretty lost in the big picture. I hope I am wrong.
 
Just a word to defend my Croix: It is a 2200 mile plane ride to watch the Cats in person, and electronic transmission is my only choice. When I travel to the Midwest, I always try to synch my schedule if possible to visit WR.

Having said that, part of what prompted me to start the thread is that with the time zone differential, starting times are often inconvenient: the Illinois game started at 10 Sunday morning (church time for me), and last night’s game was at 6 (shortly before dinner time per Mrs. EBC). In years past I would have tried to rearrange things when possible to watch live. This year, it does not seem worth the effort. Since I am a ridiculous Cat homer, I think I am also the proverbial canary in the coal mine. If I am losing interest, something is wrong. The last time I felt this way was in the KON era. This is not as bad as then - he is the only coach I wanted NU to fire (I even tried to see the best in John Pont, but I was young a relatively foolish).
My main point is that if Some team takes an interest in hiring Collins (say Stanford or USC) I am starting to think Phillips should not try to bribe him to stay, but rather give him a heartfelt handshake of thanks and wave good bye.

I agree from now on that it is better to record the games. The team is competitive, but seems to run out of energy at the end of nearly every game. NU desperately needs another consistent shooter and a stronger bench.

And maybe you are also right about CCC, but I think NU will be challenged to find anyone nearly as capable, so I would make the effort to keep him.
 
112, thanks for your thoughtful post and request. To answer, my concern is not based only on his game coaching, but also on his longer term strategy for building the team and giving it an identity. Simply put, he was not able to get a point guard for this team, which is putting it at a big disadvantage. He decided to use two short term plug ins to try to salvage the season rather than give minutes to younger players who could use the development. Both of those decisions are making me think this year is pretty lost in the big picture. I hope I am wrong.
Hindsight is 20/20. I didn’t see anyone unhappy that NU brought in Taylor or Turner as grad transfers when it was announced. In fact, everyone was begging for Mooney as well. It was a no brainer. I personally believe you try and win and if I were Law or Pardon I would have been pissed if CCC didn’t do everything in his power to give a supporting cast that at least had a chance to be a winning squad.
 
I think the issue with Collins is that he wants to coach this team the way he would if he were at Duke. He wants to build an elite team and god bless him. But, he doesn't have that kind of talent. He has recruited better athletes than NU has ever seen, but almost none of them are complete players and there are lots of holes on the roster. Some of that is his fault, but a lot of that is the reality of being at NU. We have so much working against us that it is hard to fill a roster with top quality players like he needs to make his system work.

I hate to bring up Carmody, but the one thing he did well was develop a system to be as competitive as possible with the level of talent he had. He knew he couldn't go toe-to-toe with the other BIG teams, so he got creative. He tried to hide people. He surrendered the rebounds and tried to slow the game down. If Carmody could recruit just a little bit better, he might still be here.

Collins doesn't want to do all that (again, to his credit). But when you try to play the way he does and you don't have the horses, it can get ugly at times. But we'll see what happens. This year's frosh have some potential. It looks like next year's class is pretty solid. If he lands any of these 2020 studs, then we're starting to really build something. I get frustrated, but certainly not to the point where I'm ready to give up on CCC.
 
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