Where the Cats are, have been, and will be with Collins as coach

[PurpleFaze]

It's a process. I think modern society expects instant gratification way too much. Of the 9 guys who played last night I believe this is the first year for 5 with the team? It's a lot of new blood to gel

Collins isn't perfect, but he provides youth, enthusiasm, and a recognizable name. I can quibble with his rotations at times, the X's and O's, but to me that's small at this stage of the program's growth.

I see the arrow pointed very much upwards. We've had 3 of the 4 highest rated recruits probably in NU history in last year's class and the upcoming one?

Wish we had a couple more wins, but other than the MSU and Fresno games we've been close in losses. I get that some have a winning is everything outlook, but I'm not sure how any fan could be disappointed in the home performances this season. Even last night despite all the bad calls and having 4 guys with 4+ fouls we were down 6 with the ball and 2 min to play.

In some ways making the tourney has maybe set immediate expectations too high. Give Collins until this current frosh class are seniors and then we can grade his performance a lot better.

 

[PurpleFaze]

Hindsight is 20/20. I didn’t see anyone unhappy that NU brought in Taylor or Turner as grad transfers when it was announced. In fact, everyone was begging for Mooney as well. It was a no brainer. I personally believe you try and win and if I were Law or Pardon I would have been pissed if CCC didn’t do everything in his power to give a supporting cast that at least had a chance to be a winning squad.

Unless there was a top recruit dying to come and take that spot then you absolutely have to take talented transfers in this age of college bball.

Starting near ground zero at a school like NU it takes times to get better recruiting classes. That's why we have holes and gaps on the current roster. We kind of currently have a senior and frosh roster. In a couple years it should be a much better curve.

 

[Styre]

I get that some have a winning is everything outlook, but I'm not sure how any fan could be disappointed in the home performances this season.

I think it is very easy to understand how a fan could be disappointed in last night's home performance.

 

[freewillie07]

Hindsight is 20/20. I didn’t see anyone unhappy that NU brought in Taylor or Turner as grad transfers when it was announced. In fact, everyone was begging for Mooney as well. It was a no brainer. I personally believe you try and win and if I were Law or Pardon I would have been pissed if CCC didn’t do everything in his power to give a supporting cast that at least had a chance to be a winning squad.

NU would be a tournament team this year with Mooney. Full stop.

There have been a lot of near misses on the recruiting trail and unfortunate injuries among the top players in the 2015 and 2016 classes. How much of that is Collins’s fault?

 

[PurpleFaze]

I think it is very easy to understand how a fan could be disappointed in last night's home performance.

Some level of disappointment? Sure. To the point where people are wondering about the direction of the team and if CC is the right guy or not? That seems absurd

People also have to understand that basically every team has some games where you just write it off as not our night. Last night was in that category to me, but the fact that we were still there with 2 min left is hard to see it as a sky is falling moment.

 

[eastbaycat99]

Some level of disappointment? Sure. To the point where people are wondering about the direction of the team and if CC is the right guy or not? That seems absurd

.

I started the thread and I don’t think it is absurd. As I said originally, i think Collins was the right pick 6 years ago, and his Duke, Chicago area and family connections allowed him to recruit in an almost impossible circumstance and brings a team to the tournament. That doesn’t make him an above average game coach, a long term program builder, a builder of young men, or a good representative of the university. As a game coach, I am underwhelmed. As a program builder, I see a lot of excuses being put forward, but after Mac, Vasser, Ash, Brown and Lathon have not worked out and 6 years in, the team has a few major holes.I see comments on this board that say the refs view him as an a**hole and make calls accordingly, and when I step back, I kind of agree. Is that behavior that fits molding young men? The Vasser incident was embarrassing to the university; the ambiguity of the Lathon disqualification makes me wonder about his judgement.

My main point is that 6 years was in, with a huge success under his belt, following one dismal year heading into possibly a second, Collins still has market value which may be eroding. If he would choose to look elsewhere, I don’t think Phillips should fight very hard to keep him.

 

[IdahoAlum]

Some level of disappointment? Sure. To the point where people are wondering about the direction of the team and if CC is the right guy or not? That seems absurd

People also have to understand that basically every team has some games where you just write it off as not our night. Last night was in that category to me, but the fact that we were still there with 2 min left is hard to see it as a sky is falling moment.

If NU loses the next five (as KenPom predicts, and no KenPom is not a perfect predictor, so I'm not saying the Cats will indeed lose their next five), that would leave them at 1-9 in Big Ten play and headed for a second straight losing season, and his fourth in six seasons at NU. Concern about the direction of this program is NOT limited to last night, or the MSU blowout, or last season's extremely disappointing performance. It is a combination of all that and what looks like another post-season-less season next year given the departure of this year's two best players. As Collins heads into his seventh year here, he has to start winning enough games to lend credibility to what has apparently been a very nice recruiting pitch to this point.

I don't think it's time to fire Collins, jump out of a 10-story window or otherwise over-react. I do think that people who are questioning which way this program is going are fully in control of their faculties.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Some level of disappointment? Sure. To the point where people are wondering about the direction of the team and if CC is the right guy or not? That seems absurd

People also have to understand that basically every team has some games where you just write it off as not our night. Last night was in that category to me, but the fact that we were still there with 2 min left is hard to see it as a sky is falling moment.

I learned from football that I should never post during a game or immediately after a loss. I got to follow that logic going forward.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

NU would be a tournament team this year with Mooney. Full stop.

There have been a lot of near misses on the recruiting trail and unfortunate injuries among the top players in the 2015 and 2016 classes. How much of that is Collins’s fault?

If your point is if we landed Mooney along with Taylor and Turner, them I agree. CCC tried to get all 3. 2 of 3 is not good enough to get us in the tourney. As I said before, you owe it to your players to attempt to win every year. There is no such thing as tanking when a kid has one precious year of eligibility left.

 

[hoosboot]

I started the thread and I don’t think it is absurd. As I said originally, i think Collins was the right pick 6 years ago, and his Duke, Chicago area and family connections allowed him to recruit in an almost impossible circumstance and brings a team to the tournament. That doesn’t make him an above average game coach, a long term program builder, a builder of young men, or a good representative of the university. As a game coach, I am underwhelmed. As a program builder, I see a lot of excuses being put forward, but after Mac, Vasser, Ash, Brown and Lathon have not worked out and 6 years in, the team has a few major holes.I see comments on this board that say the refs view him as an a**hole and make calls accordingly, and when I step back, I kind of agree. Is that behavior that fits molding young men? The Vasser incident was embarrassing to the university; the ambiguity of the Lathon disqualification makes me wonder about his judgement.

My main point is that 6 years was in, with a huge success under his belt, following one dismal year heading into possibly a second, Collins still has market value which may be eroding. If he would choose to look elsewhere, I don’t think Phillips should fight very hard to keep him.

I wholly believe that Coach Collins was a great hire at the point and time he was hired and that he's done a lot of great things. That said, that I don't see a strong identity in the program and that's a big deal...particularly when compared with the football program. That football identity has been hard-won over some years of struggles, but I think that identity makes the job of building some consistent success a little bit easier. I wish I saw some sort of consistent identity in what the basketball program wants to be, but I don't see it yet and that's a concern.

 

[mikewebb68]

Lots of people overreacting to a loss here, imo. It's not like we lost to Florida Atlantic or anything. In fact, we've beaten every single team we are rabked above in KenPon and lost to every single team we were ranked below in Kenpom, so pur results should hardly be surprising. 15+ BIG games to go should be a fun ride!

 

[hoosboot]

On one hand, I look at this thread as a positive. I'm glad our expectation have grown beyond NITs as a good goal. NU isn't even two years removed from a tourney and a strong chance at Sweet 16, and this is the response?!?!

Oh my, how things have changed.

Collins has his weaknesses, but I think a lot of you are grasping at straws for whatever reason. It surprises me that everybody is focusing on the Xs and Os. There were not these strong complaints two years ago.

For me, the talent on this team leaves a lot to be desired, but this thread seems to stuck on Collins' strategy. Do you really think another coach would coax much more out of this group? There's no size advantage (who remembers that discussion?). Not a ton of outside shooters and no established lead guard. It's also pretty easy to drive the lane on this team. Has NU defended any big man well this year? Where would Law, our best player, fall in the rotation of teams in the top half of the league?

And that's just the start of the list.

I don't care what system you're running. If you want to criticize Collins about this year and you leave talent out of the equation, I think your premise is wrong.

EBC, I appreciate your answer to the identity question and I think you have the right idea. Also, I think you're about to get part of your wish with a longer team. It's one of many examples I see how Collins adjusts to his team - a good sign for me. I think a lot of people are forgetting the adjustments Collins has tried to make because of his lack of a point guard.

I think we have example after example of Collins adjusting to that particular group. In every sport, I'll take the coach who adjusts to his talent any day of the week, rather than the guy who lives and dies with his system ... or identity.

If you want to tell me Collins is slow to adjust, I won't disagree with you at all. If you want to tell me this team doesn't have the talent to compete this year, no argument there. That's on Collins and it's one of several issues. But to jump on his Xs and Os ignores that this group doesn't really have foundational talent.

I hope that talent is on its way. It seems like it is ... fingers crossed.

I don't know, 112. This team has foundational talent. It's just not the right mix of foundational talent to win consistently given the way we play.

I totally agree that I'd take a coach who adjust to his talent any day of the week, but it's not an either/or question. A coach who lives or dies with his system when he has a team that has a poor skill-set fit and a coach who is consistently trying to reinvent how his team plays are both likely to be struggle (particularly in the long term.) Coaches that have a program foundation and identity that brings in talent that fits that program but make adjustments to match the specifics of their talent have a much higher chance of being successful.

So, I don't think it's an x's and o's problem with CCC right now as much as it is that it's not apparent that we have a consistent sense of how we're the program is going to be successful.

 

[hoosboot]

Lots of people overreacting to a loss here, imo. It's not like we lost to Florida Atlantic or anything. In fact, we've beaten every single team we are rabked above in KenPon and lost to every single team we were ranked below in Kenpom, so pur results should hardly be surprising. 15+ BIG games to go should be a fun ride!

It seems like you're suggesting I go check how many of those 15+ BIG games have us ranked above the other team in KenPom. If that's the case, I'm concerned that it's not really going to be a fun ride.

 

[mikewebb68]

It seems like you're suggesting I go check how many of those 15+ BIG games have us ranked above the other team in KenPom. If that's the case, I'm concerned that it's not really going to be a fun ride.

No, that was not what I was suggesting, not at all. I am responding to those who have already written off this sesson, and are even writing off our coach ( seriously?) because they have perfotmed precisely to expectations, despite the facr we lost our starting PG right out of the gate, which has doomed other teams in similar situations. The season is only halfway over, and numerous players (Greer, Gaines and Nance) have shown dramatic improvement as the season has gone on. To me, barring injury, that bodes well for the second half lf the season, which is the half that counts. We're #60 in Kenpom, lots of opps to inprove and few that will makes us fall dramatically (even Illinois and Rutgers are now jnside the top 110, the conference is officially absolutely freakin' loaded)

 

[EvanstonCat]

I think the issue with Collins is that he wants to coach this team the way he would if he were at Duke. He wants to build an elite team and god bless him. But, he doesn't have that kind of talent. He has recruited better athletes than NU has ever seen, but almost none of them are complete players and there are lots of holes on the roster. Some of that is his fault, but a lot of that is the reality of being at NU. We have so much working against us that it is hard to fill a roster with top quality players like he needs to make his system work.

I hate to bring up Carmody, but the one thing he did well was develop a system to be as competitive as possible with the level of talent he had. He knew he couldn't go toe-to-toe with the other BIG teams, so he got creative. He tried to hide people. He surrendered the rebounds and tried to slow the game down. If Carmody could recruit just a little bit better, he might still be here.

Collins doesn't want to do all that (again, to his credit). But when you try to play the way he does and you don't have the horses, it can get ugly at times. But we'll see what happens. This year's frosh have some potential. It looks like next year's class is pretty solid. If he lands any of these 2020 studs, then we're starting to really build something. I get frustrated, but certainly not to the point where I'm ready to give up on CCC.

I'll try my best to be measured in my response to this.

The next person who outs himself as a Carmody hugger should be shot on sight.

Carmody sucked balls. Big hairy ones. He had a gimmick offense, but literally taught that rebounding and defense were not important. If you think that's compelling, then you should be shot to improve the gene pool. There is no what if's with regards to Carmody. He is at Holy Cross where he and NU are better off. Carmody is gone and no one should be pining for him.

Mentioning his name in such a way is so offensive that I have vomited violently in hearing it. Please, I beg everyone here not to do this again.

I'm not sure I successfully conveyed my true feelings here, but I'm trying to abide by board rules and remain civil about it.

 

[NUCat320]

NU would be a tournament team this year with Mooney. Full stop.

While there is no way to prove or disprove this, I disagree.

CCC never not once in his coaching career has been at a talent disadvantage prior to Northwestern. On most nights, his roster probably had three of the four best players; on some nights - even within the conference - nobody on the opposing team could crack his rotation.

He committed to going the road more traveled - which is to say, get the best players - when he came to NU. While Vic will forever be in the purple pantheon, and Mc was a recruiting coup and an endurance test to fend off latecomers, NU’s last recruit to average double digits in a Wildcat uniform committed in June of 2014. (That’s Pardon.) My five-year-old wasn’t walking yet.

Rap and Falzon have been bad luck, you could say, and of course *someone* will have to score double figures next year, but the fact is that CCC’s program strategy has been built on recruiting, and then hasn’t been successful at recruiting.

Lots of people wanted Benson. But Benson is just a guy. Ash was a great option at a traditional Chicago power. But, again, just a guy. Brown put up huge numbers - but on a losing high school team, and he never gravitated toward the role needed of him. Kopp or Gaines or Nance will almost certainly score in double figures next year, breaking a nearly-impossible dry spell.

Fact is, NU won in 2016 because they defended well, because Lindsey and Mc got along, and because they made enough shots.

NU hasn’t won in any other seasons because the other teams have had better basketball players. Sustainability of success is built primarily on changing that. Hopefully the current freshman class and next year’s freshman class become that second talented wave, though one would have to be an optimist to be sure of it right now.

Getting to 13 scholarships would be nice, but also carries risk.

 

[TheC]

I'll try my best to be measured in my response to this.

The next person who outs himself as a Carmody hugger should be shot on sight.

Carmody sucked balls. Big hairy ones. He had a gimmick offense, but literally taught that rebounding and defense were not important. If you think that's compelling, then you should be shot to improve the gene pool. There is no what if's with regards to Carmody. He is at Holy Cross where he and NU are better off. Carmody is gone and no one should be pining for him.

Mentioning his name in such a way is so offensive that I have vomited violently in hearing it. Please, I beg everyone here not to do this again.

I'm not sure I successfully conveyed my true feelings here, but I'm trying to abide by board rules and remain civil about it.

CARMODY!! CARMODY!! CARMODY!!

Puke up, little buddy!

(In all seriousness, one can very easily have been in the camp that thought it was time for Carmody to go, frustrated with his obvious flaws, while still acknowledging the things he did well. He got NU to the postseason more times than all the other coaches in my adult lifetime combined. Doesn't mean I didn't want him fired by the end.)

 

[NJCat]

(In all seriousness, one can very easily have been in the camp that thought it was time for Carmody to go, frustrated with his obvious flaws, while still acknowledging the things he did well. He got NU to the postseason more times than all the other coaches in my adult lifetime combined. Doesn't mean I didn't want him fired by the end.)

That was where I was camping. The endless "Carmody sucks" camp misses that for all his flaws he did have an All American first team B1G player who became the all time leader in points and blocks, was named B1G COTY, and toward the end of his run had those NIT teams. But it was time to move on.

 

[hoosboot]

No, that was not what I was suggesting, not at all. I am responding to those who have already written off this sesson, and are even writing off our coach ( seriously?) because they have perfotmed precisely to expectations, despite the facr we lost our starting PG right out of the gate, which has doomed other teams in similar situations. The season is only halfway over, and numerous players (Greer, Gaines and Nance) have shown dramatic improvement as the season has gone on. To me, barring injury, that bodes well for the second half lf the season, which is the half that counts. We're #60 in Kenpom, lots of opps to inprove and few that will makes us fall dramatically (even Illinois and Rutgers are now jnside the top 110, the conference is officially absolutely freakin' loaded)

So, if we've performed precisely to expectations and those expectations are pegged to KenPom, what should be the expectations for the 2nd half of the season?

 

[PurpleFaze]

While there is no way to prove or disprove this, I disagree.

CCC never not once in his coaching career has been at a talent disadvantage prior to Northwestern. On most nights, his roster probably had three of the four best players; on some nights - even within the conference - nobody on the opposing team could crack his rotation.

He committed to going the road more traveled - which is to say, get the best players - when he came to NU. While Vic will forever be in the purple pantheon, and Mc was a recruiting coup and an endurance test to fend off latecomers, NU’s last recruit to average double digits in a Wildcat uniform committed in June of 2014. (That’s Pardon.) My five-year-old wasn’t walking yet.

Rap and Falzon have been bad luck, you could say, and of course *someone* will have to score double figures next year, but the fact is that CCC’s program strategy has been built on recruiting, and then hasn’t been successful at recruiting.

Lots of people wanted Benson. But Benson is just a guy. Ash was a great option at a traditional Chicago power. But, again, just a guy. Brown put up huge numbers - but on a losing high school team, and he never gravitated toward the role needed of him. Kopp or Gaines or Nance will almost certainly score in double figures next year, breaking a nearly-impossible dry spell.

Fact is, NU won in 2016 because they defended well, because Lindsey and Mc got along, and because they made enough shots.

NU hasn’t won in any other seasons because the other teams have had better basketball players. Sustainability of success is built primarily on changing that. Hopefully the current freshman class and next year’s freshman class become that second talented wave, though one would have to be an optimist to be sure of it right now.

Getting to 13 scholarships would be nice, but also carries risk.

Recruiting take some time to turn around in my opinion especially at a school like NU. The biggest issue with the current team is we had a couple lean recruiting years with some of that due to kids we got during that time being lost due to injury. Seems hard to complain with the recruiting of the current frosh class and the one for next year- 3 of the 4 highest graded players ever at NU. And yes, ratings sometimes don't end up meaning anything, but it shows a trend to me. And recruiting should only get easier with the new facilities.

I find it hard to grade collins too much until this current frosh class are seniors- a full recruit cycle with his program in place. The current team is just kind of a shell- seniors and frosh with not much in between.

 

[PurpleFaze]

That was where I was camping. The endless "Carmody sucks" camp misses that for all his flaws he did have an All American first team B1G player who became the all time leader in points and blocks, was named B1G COTY, and toward the end of his run had those NIT teams. But it was time to move on.

Unfortunately it sort of seemed like that was his ceiling?

 

[PurpleFaze]

If NU loses the next five (as KenPom predicts, and no KenPom is not a perfect predictor, so I'm not saying the Cats will indeed lose their next five), that would leave them at 1-9 in Big Ten play and headed for a second straight losing season, and his fourth in six seasons at NU. Concern about the direction of this program is NOT limited to last night, or the MSU blowout, or last season's extremely disappointing performance. It is a combination of all that and what looks like another post-season-less season next year given the departure of this year's two best players. As Collins heads into his seventh year here, he has to start winning enough games to lend credibility to what has apparently been a very nice recruiting pitch to this point.

I don't think it's time to fire Collins, jump out of a 10-story window or otherwise over-react. I do think that people who are questioning which way this program is going are fully in control of their faculties.

To me given the current roster the biggest factor is the margins not necessarily the win/loss record. The schedule makers didn't exactly do us any favors- 3 of the first 6 games in conference being Mich x2 and at MSU. Given where the program has been I can't lose sleep over losing to Michigan by 2 or at Indiana by 2. If we start seeing lots of games where it's over with 10 min to play that would be. The worst game result so far to me was the Iowa game and we were down 6 with the ball and two min to play.

Collins is a young coach at a school with a really lean basketball history. He had a couple "bad" recruiting years (some of that due to injury). I think he has responded well. See where it goes from here, but I see the arrow pointed up, just doesn't seem to be the steep up that some want.

 

[NJCat]

Unfortunately it sort of seemed like that was his ceiling?

Yep, it was.

 

[NJCat]

Collins is a young coach at a school with a really lean basketball history. He had a couple "bad" recruiting years (some of that due to injury). I think he has responded well. See where it goes from here, but I see the arrow pointed up, just doesn't seem to be the steep up that some want.

I wouldn't call him young. And the arrow seems more horizontal than vertical if 4 of 6 seasons result in losing records. Forget the recruit rankings, what matters are W's and L's. Just like football!

 

[IGNORE2]

I wouldn't call him young. And the arrow seems more horizontal than vertical if 4 of 6 seasons result in losing records. Forget the recruit rankings, what matters are W's and L's. Just like football!

Except OOC games, per gcg.

 

[mikewebb68]

So, if we've performed precisely to expectations and those expectations are pegged to KenPom, what should be the expectations for the 2nd half of the season?

Don't know. If I could predict outcomes of sporting events, I would make a lot of money!

 

[Kat burglar]

NU would be a tournament team this year with Mooney. Full stop.

There have been a lot of near misses on the recruiting trail and unfortunate injuries among the top players in the 2015 and 2016 classes. How much of that is Collins’s fault?

EXACTLY

 

[Kat burglar]

Wait till Jimmy Chitwood decides to play...

... I want a revote!

 

[IdahoAlum]

To me given the current roster the biggest factor is the margins not necessarily the win/loss record. The schedule makers didn't exactly do us any favors- 3 of the first 6 games in conference being Mich x2 and at MSU. Given where the program has been I can't lose sleep over losing to Michigan by 2 or at Indiana by 2. If we start seeing lots of games where it's over with 10 min to play that would be. The worst game result so far to me was the Iowa game and we were down 6 with the ball and two min to play.

Collins is a young coach at a school with a really lean basketball history. He had a couple "bad" recruiting years (some of that due to injury). I think he has responded well. See where it goes from here, but I see the arrow pointed up, just doesn't seem to be the steep up that some want.

After almost six seasons i’d hope we’d be past the “let’s just keep it close” stage of the program. What you would hope is that Collins is somehow different than all other past NU coaches who could not seem to overcome the NU “ curse” of untimely injuries, early player departures, lack of depth, blah, blah, blah. Instead his record suggests that his one season of glory was an aberration.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

After almost six seasons i’d hope we’d be past the “let’s just keep it close” stage of the program. What you would hope is that Collins is somehow different than all other past NU coaches who could not seem to overcome the NU “ curse” of untimely injuries, early player departures, lack of depth, blah, blah, blah. Instead his record suggests that his one season of glory was an aberration.

One more than anyone else had.

 

[willycat]

After almost six seasons i’d hope we’d be past the “let’s just keep it close” stage of the program. What you would hope is that Collins is somehow different than all other past NU coaches who could not seem to overcome the NU “ curse” of untimely injuries, early player departures, lack of depth, blah, blah, blah. Instead his record suggests that his one season of glory was an aberration.

Think a fair critique of Collins should be taken in let's say another 6 or 7 years.

 

[Medill90]

After almost six seasons i’d hope we’d be past the “let’s just keep it close” stage of the program. What you would hope is that Collins is somehow different than all other past NU coaches who could not seem to overcome the NU “ curse” of untimely injuries, early player departures, lack of depth, blah, blah, blah. Instead his record suggests that his one season of glory was an aberration.

I have to disagree. If the next three to four years mirrors the first six, then perhaps.

And the curse, at the end of the day, is admissions/academics IMO.

I'd also like to contrast this year with Collins' second (his first class of recruits) in terms of talent and individual performance. If you remember, as frosh BMac was thrown out there 24/7 and did admirably. Vic was thrown out there, asked to do everything and was overhyped (coach: he'll be Big Ten all frosh) and in the latter third came off the bench. Scottie showed flashes but was inconsistent (and didn't do tons his sophomore year).

Nance is being brought along, as is Greer. They are earning a bit more time and both looking more settled. Nance will be an almost 30 minute guy next year. Kopp has started all year and, frankly, looks like he's earned more minutes than he's getting. He will be almost 30 next year. And Greer looks like he's earned more spot minutes at point guard. I think this current class will have more impact in years two and three than BMac's class.

I'm getting more comfortable with Benson/Falzon/Gaines/Nance/Kopp/Beran and a point guard to come for next year. (doesn't mean anything, but that list of players is composed of five four stars) It would take a really good PG and a high quality transfer to talk post season, but they will compete. Nance may blow up next year. He's caught up to the speed and you can see his confidence and aggressiveness. He needs to knock them down and he needs to be a disruptor around the rim. Not doing either like he will next year.

Jared Jones and Ryan Young are unknowns. Pardon leaves a big hole, so many tools. I think bigs is where Collins is really hamstrung by admissions. For a couple years I thought he had the magic but it is a real problem for any NU coach. It's not just an issue at the 5, it's also an issue at the 4. NU has gotten longer but has not gotten thicker. You can count on one hand the kids who are over 6' 10", can play Big Ten basketball and are an academic fit for NU.

 

[Styre]

After almost six seasons i’d hope we’d be past the “let’s just keep it close” stage of the program. What you would hope is that Collins is somehow different than all other past NU coaches who could not seem to overcome the NU “ curse” of untimely injuries, early player departures, lack of depth, blah, blah, blah. Instead his record suggests that his one season of glory was an aberration.

And the program is treating him differently than past coaches. He's being paid a lot of money and the school has invested nine figures into facilities improvements. Saying "he should get 13 years because that's what BC got" doesn't recognize the very real improvements in the program during his tenure.

(But like I said, I wouldn't make a call on him until 2020-21 at the earliest.)

 

[Kat burglar]

An additional benefit that many state schools have is that they are the premier destination for in-state players. Iowa kids want to play at Iowa first. Same with Wisconsin, Minnesota, OSU, etc. If you get the best kid in the state each year, it makes recruiting much easier. We fight against that, getting kids to not go to the hometown favorite and instead go to NU.

Just another reason it takes time. It will come

 

[willycat]

I have to disagree. If the next three to four years mirrors the first six, then perhaps.

And the curse, at the end of the day, is admissions/academics IMO.

I'd also like to contrast this year with Collins' second (his first class of recruits) in terms of talent and individual performance. If you remember, as frosh BMac was thrown out there 24/7 and did admirably. Vic was thrown out there, asked to do everything and was overhyped (coach: he'll be Big Ten all frosh) and in the latter third came off the bench. Scottie showed flashes but was inconsistent (and didn't do tons his sophomore year).

Nance is being brought along, as is Greer. They are earning a bit more time and both looking more settled. Nance will be an almost 30 minute guy next year. Kopp has started all year and, frankly, looks like he's earned more minutes than he's getting. He will be almost 30 next year. And Greer looks like he's earned more spot minutes at point guard. I think this current class will have more impact in years two and three than BMac's class.

I'm getting more comfortable with Benson/Falzon/Gaines/Nance/Kopp/Beran and a point guard to come for next year. (doesn't mean anything, but that list of players is composed of five four stars) It would take a really good PG and a high quality transfer to talk post season, but they will compete. Nance may blow up next year. He's caught up to the speed and you can see his confidence and aggressiveness. He needs to knock them down and he needs to be a disruptor around the rim. Not doing either like he will next year.

Jared Jones and Ryan Young are unknowns. Pardon leaves a big hole, so many tools. I think bigs is where Collins is really hamstrung by admissions. For a couple years I thought he had the magic but it is a real problem for any NU coach. It's not just an issue at the 5, it's also an issue at the 4. NU has gotten longer but has not gotten thicker. You can count on one hand the kids who are over 6' 10", can play Big Ten basketball and are an academic fit for NU.

Just maybe NU sound make them a fit, ala, Duke.

 

[Walker Fan]

NU needs a point guard to set up the offense, a shooting guard who can create offense and his shot by dribbling and driving, a power forward with size who can bang with the elite teams in the Big and a forward with a dead-eye three point shot. Since we did not use our 13th scholarship, won’t use a PF with size as he is red-shirting in Ryan Young, have an injured 11th man combo guard in Ash and refuse to play our 10th man who once was a lights out three point shooter in Falzon (who we assume must have entered the transfer portal and Collins has written him off and hurt the team’s chances of winning), we are left with a 9-man roster. The 4 bench players include 2 freshmen - Greer and Nance, 1 sophomore in developing Gaines and maddeningly inconsistent backup junior Center Benson.

Let’s look at a Big 10 contender like Purdue who used their 13th player - Freshman Trevion Williams who goes 6’9”, 275 lbs. and he came through last night by scoring 9 points, 11 rebs. and 3 assists to be a key in PU’s big road win v. UW. Purdue has 7 freshmen and our well on their way to the tourney. Morale of the story - you need a full roster of 13 talented players to survive the 20-man gauntlet of the Big 10 schedule.

NU has a 9 man roster when you need 13 to battle in the top conference in the land. Not a path to success unless you have Duke’s roster with the possibly the top three picks in the upcoming NBA draft.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

NU needs a point guard to set up the offense, a shooting guard who can create offense and his shot by dribbling and driving, a power forward with size who can bang with the elite teams in the Big and a forward with a dead-eye three point shot. Since we did not use our 13th scholarship, won’t use a PF with size as he is red-shirting in Ryan Young, have an injured 11th man combo guard in Ash and refuse to play our 10th man who once was a lights out three point shooter in Falzon (who we assume must have entered the transfer portal and Collins has written him off and hurt the team’s chances of winning), we are left with a 9-man roster. The 4 bench players include 2 freshmen - Greer and Nance, 1 sophomore in developing Gaines and maddeningly inconsistent backup junior Center Benson.

Let’s look at a Big 10 contender like Purdue who used their 13th player - Freshman Trevion Williams who goes 6’9”, 275 lbs. and he came through last night by scoring 9 points, 11 rebs. and 3 assists to be a key in PU’s big road win v. UW. Purdue has 7 freshmen and our well on their way to the tourney. Morale of the story - you need a full roster of 13 talented players to survive the 20-man gauntlet of the Big 10 schedule.

NU has a 9 man roster when you need 13 to battle in the top conference in the land. Not a path to success unless you have Duke’s roster with the possibly the top three picks in the upcoming NBA draft.

I not buying that Purdue is a contender. I got them as a bubble team, and they have a superstar player. Williams has just come on the scene. They still don’t have a Freshman averaging 5 points a game. It’s tough being a Freshman in this league unless you are a Ayo or Langford.

Not many teams play more than a 9 man rotation. I would still advocate that each of our Freshman see 4-5 minutes mire a game. If nothing else, but to keep the regulars at 28-30 minutes. Ash would be playing 10 minutes if not hurt. No idea what is with Falzon once he came back, but I would be very surprised to see him back next year. NU’s problem is too many of their guys have similar skil sets.

 

[hoosboot]

NU’s problem is too many of their guys have similar skil sets.

DING! DING! DING!

We have a bunch of nice pieces that don't make a whole yet.

By Walker's assessment, all we're missing is:

1) a point guard to set up the offense
2) a shooting guard who can create offense and his shot by dribbling and driving,
3) a power forward with size who can bang with the elite teams in the Big
4) a forward with a dead-eye three point shot

That's all?

 

[NJCat]

That's all?

You forgot the 4 additional healthy scholarship players.

 

[hoosboot]

You forgot the 4 additional healthy scholarship players.

How perfect is that? Let's use those four on Walkers #1-4.