Who has the scoop on Rap?
- Thread starter freewillie07
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Well this is not good news. When someone this close to the program says that our four star recruit can't break the lineup in an out of division game and barely saw the floor in a scrimmage then I think our expectations might be a little high.
Not to mention that NU was down a man at his position, and the replacement had a poor game and ended up in foul trouble. And Rap still didn't play.
And keep in mind that it's normal for an athlete to regress while recovering from an injury that requires immobilization. It's totally normal for a player to require some extra time to recapture his/her old form, let alone improve.
Again, not unexpected. I've heard that he plays like a freshman who hasn't played any real basketball in over a year. Still needs to work his way into the flow of the game and get more in-sync with the rest of the team.
Watching the Purdue MBB game yesterday vs Chicago St, it was interesting to see Nojel Eastern. Announcers were raving about him, and stating the coaches expect great things from him. He's a first year kid not coming off a major surgery and rehab. Yet, even in a blow out game he only saw limited action in the first half and made more mistakes than positive contributions.
Point being, it takes time. Freshman making major positive contributions right out of the gate is rare. Expectations should be set accordingly. This becomes even more relevant next year when the Cats instantly go from a very experienced team to a pretty young team.
Also, wish we had landed Eastern. Kid is a smooth athlete! He'd be a good Wing in NUs offense alongside AG. Oh well...
Point being, it takes time. Freshman making major positive contributions right out of the gate is rare. Expectations should be set accordingly. This becomes even more relevant next year when the Cats instantly go from a very experienced team to a pretty young team.
Also, wish we had landed Eastern. Kid is a smooth athlete! He'd be a good Wing in NUs offense alongside AG. Oh well...
This is disappointing to hear, but probably even more disappointing for Rap. Hope he gets "better" both as far as his shoulder, and "better" as far as getting back into game shape and gelling with the rest of the team. Could really use him at the 4 if Falzon is out for a bit.
From minutes received looks like Rap not ready yet. I understand many folks caught up
in silly **** rating system, but what does Rap currently have in his "bag of tricks" that
gets him on the court? I am far from a H.S. recruiting expert but I would imagine Rap
currently having trouble defending Law's quickness or Skelly's power in practice. I would
also imagine Rap is a great kid who is coming off injury and working hard on his game to find
a niche which gets him minutes.
in silly **** rating system, but what does Rap currently have in his "bag of tricks" that
gets him on the court? I am far from a H.S. recruiting expert but I would imagine Rap
currently having trouble defending Law's quickness or Skelly's power in practice. I would
also imagine Rap is a great kid who is coming off injury and working hard on his game to find
a niche which gets him minutes.
It seems like a luxury (and unprecedented for NU) that we don't have to play any freshman coming off an injury until he's ready to go. Having never seen him play, my impression is that he isn't that much of an outside shooter, and without that skill, he's going to be behind Skelly and Benson for minutes.
The way Skelly racks up fouls, there are minutes available for Rap if he is healthy......
He has a crafty, creative offensive game at the 4 from the free thrown in and 6 9" height.
No question that was a big concern about Skelly coming into this year. I guess if Skelly can take 25 minutes, maybe we're better off filling the remaining 15 with Benson and Law in a small lineup than putting someone out there who isn't ready, even just for a few minutes.
Collins mentioned that NU was missing Falzon and his 10 ppg. That means that when he is healthy (knock on wood that it happens by Wednesday), Falzon will be the starter. Also, in order to get Gaines more minutes, there will be many times when Gaines, Lindsey and Law are on the floor at the same time which means there are less opportunities for Rap. Lastly, since the game was tight in the second half, that means that the main players - McIntosh, Lindsey, Law and Pardon saw extended minutes which means there were less minutes for Rap. Also, Loyola (Md.) might not have been a good matchup for Rap. Also, Collins has been slow to give freshmen minutes (see Pardon three seasons ago in the non-conference). Gaines is special and his game is developed enough to play right away.
As for Ash, he is strong defender, but not will see a bunch of minutes because he is not a natural distributor. He did play good defense when he was in the game. NU needs consistent offensive contributions from Brown, Benson and Gaines. Ash will not be able to give them much punch offensively. They will be needed for Wednesday night's game v. Creighton who has a tournament level backcourt talent led by Marcus Foster who is a great college player.
I would not place much stock in a Chicago State v. Purdue game and the contributions of Eastern. Let's see how well Eastern does v. Marquette this week which is a real Power Conference basketball team. One thing to note is that Isaac Haas, who some said was more talented than last year's Big 10 POY Caleb Swanigan, went for 8 points, 6 rebs. in 21 minutes. Not close to comparable to Caleb Swanigan, Purdue's double-double machine last season. Can someone on the board educate what a double double is and why it is important in valuing a player and why Haas will never reach the level of Swanigan?
As for Ash, he is strong defender, but not will see a bunch of minutes because he is not a natural distributor. He did play good defense when he was in the game. NU needs consistent offensive contributions from Brown, Benson and Gaines. Ash will not be able to give them much punch offensively. They will be needed for Wednesday night's game v. Creighton who has a tournament level backcourt talent led by Marcus Foster who is a great college player.
I would not place much stock in a Chicago State v. Purdue game and the contributions of Eastern. Let's see how well Eastern does v. Marquette this week which is a real Power Conference basketball team. One thing to note is that Isaac Haas, who some said was more talented than last year's Big 10 POY Caleb Swanigan, went for 8 points, 6 rebs. in 21 minutes. Not close to comparable to Caleb Swanigan, Purdue's double-double machine last season. Can someone on the board educate what a double double is and why it is important in valuing a player and why Haas will never reach the level of Swanigan?
Rap has and still has a relatively high potential due to his versatility. Judging from his highschool tape he could score in the post a little, drive the hoop a little, shoot a little, all in a 6'9" frame.
But moving to college, you have to be great or at least good at something to have value on the court. With his shoulder injury he couldnt improve on his game or improve his body. So until he figures out how to perform any of those skills at a level high enough to perform in a D1 game, he doesnt have value on the court.
So I think we should all give the kid a break and realize he's only recently able to improve, and give him time.
Again, I am rooting for Rap (and NU) but being crafty/creative against 6' 3/4" h.s. kids vs.
22 year old Division 1 guys takes time for most. I value our staff's ability to develop players
and with a bit of time I'm betting Rap will find ways to contribute on a good NU team.
22 year old Division 1 guys takes time for most. I value our staff's ability to develop players
and with a bit of time I'm betting Rap will find ways to contribute on a good NU team.
That sux - that is next on my list. Though mine will be a replacement - any difference?
So far, Swany is averaging 3 and 3 in the men's league. And I said that I think Haas will do well in the NBA. So, we will see. We know Swany went #26 in the first round. And by then, we will also have a year of NBA stats. Time will tell - this debate is far from over.
Didn't Rap win the HORSE competition pre-season a year ago? Or he was at least in the running. He has said he models his game off Dirk. Uses his height to do those fadeaways that are nearly impossible to block.
He's not going to be the fastest player, but he has length and a decent touch. Really hoping that even if he's not as far along as we hoped, that he'll see the floor late in a blowout sometime (tonight?!).
I disagree on Ah! He is our best passer, not named Mac! He is quick, physical! I expect him to be our 6th or 7th man in beginning in 3 to 4 games! He sealed the game with his switch and turnover at the end of the game and had two assists for three pointers in limited action.
Rap will come around. He was one of the top five players in the state of Illinois going into his senior year... And then he went to an East coast college prep school with college-level competition his senior year. Rap sat on the bench his first eligible game in a 4-year playing career. He has about 130 games to go.
I'm not criticizing him. And I'm not saying he won't become a good player. I'm just telling you guys what I know.
I really thought we would see a lot of both Falzon and Rap and less of Skelly. Wondering if either of those two are really healthy and if not, then when?
I was not trying to be negative towards your comment. I was piggybacking off you saying he looks like a freshman, giving more evidence to the claim. I too believe if he figures it out he can be real dynamic!
What's with all this realism and reasonableness and apparent objectivity around here lately? Did someone steal the Kool-Aid and rose-colored glasses or something?
I'm secretly hoping that CCC is keeping our two 4* 4's a secret, providing no game tape on them for Creighton to work with. And then, POW, Falzon dropping bombs from 3 and then Rap comes in providing an inside out game from the 4 previously unseen at NU.
I'm selling purple tinted sunglasses if anyone want a pair.
I'm selling purple tinted sunglasses if anyone want a pair.
CC has not been slow to give frosh minutes when warranted; Pardon wasn't ready as a frosh and if there had been other options, Benson would have R-shirted (which is more typically expected of bigs).
Gaines shows promise, but wouldn't exactly throw him in the special category as of yet.
BMac was special as a frosh, as was Drew.
In his first 10 gms as a frosh, Drew scored - 20, 22 17, 7, 19, 8, 4, 25, 17 and 16 pts (19 against GTech and 17 against St. John's).
Not fair to Gaines to expect the same level of play, but would be thrilled if he could give 50-60% of that production in his 1st 10 gms.
I have long argued that 8 man rotations are the norm, with a little 9 man seen too. If Falzon was healthy, that would add a ninth. (I really think it will be Ash or Brown come B1G season.)
Assuming Falzon returns to health, I’m growing comfortable with the notion that Rap will see Charlie, Tino minutes this unless injury demands otherwise.
B Mac was not special on the defensive side. He was part of the reason NU played a lot of zone. Drew was ok defensively.
Falzon did decently defensively, despite what is written on this board. He also got in scrums going for rebounds.
The identity of a Collins team is defense so pts. don't mean as much. Gaines can play defense right now.
I dont know why he didnt play previously but it wasnt injury. He is playing on wednesday.
And before anyone comments, no, i have no idea why he will play on Wednesday other than he is capable.
And before anyone comments, no, i have no idea why he will play on Wednesday other than he is capable.
the reason Pardon did not get minutes three years ago in the non con games is they were intending on RS him. When Olah went down, they needed him. and wasn't going to be back for NEB they played him out of necessity, But when Olah was avail, Pardon'd minutes went down significantly
He will get court time but not enough to do that. When Drew came, he was starting from basically day one because we did not have anyone else. Gaines should be about 8th man right now. But Falzon isn't available. He will get his chances and I believe he will be a starter next year but right now, he is not strong enough and guys are in his way.
Since when is this limited to D?
Sure, BMac has been a liability on D (less so now than before), but averaging 11.4 ppg and 4.7 apg is pretty special for a frosh PG (as was Juice as a frosh).
As long as the 'Cats have 3 good wing defenders (as they did last season w/ Lumpkin) and Pardon manning the paint, one can kinda hide BMac's defensive deficiencies (as the 'Cats were ranked 42nd in defensive efficiency last season).
Would it be better if BMac was an above average defender?
Sure, but even as is, BMac has been vital to the 'Cats as a ball distributor and scorer.
As for Drew, he was OK defensively for a frosh and as of right now, Gaines hasn't shown to be any better, much less as good, as Crawford was on D in his 1st season (nevermind coming anywhere close to what Crawford showed on O).
Think you and a few others have overrated Falzon on D; he tries hard and sometimes can do an alright job against more typical PFs, but quicker wings have blown right by him (or get the shot off from behind the arc before Falzon can get there).
As I had stated before, Sanjay was the Swiss-army knife on D - being able to guard all 5 positions, and a vital cog in the 'Cats last season having 3 wings who can set up a triangle with Pardon anchoring the paint.
The 'Cats have missed Lumpkin even more when Law or Lindsey get into foul trouble (leaving only 1 above-avg. wing defender on the floor).
No need to tell me that D has been the identity of CC's teams (as I have been saying that from the start), but if the level of D drops (as was predictable w/ the loss of Sanjay), then the team is simply going to have to score more to make up for it.
And guess what was CC's best defensive team aside from last season's?
His very 1st squad with Crawford, (a young) Lumpkin and relatively healthy Cobb (setting up that triangle).
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Time for an update. Haas broke his elbow and is off to surgery. He improved all his stats but definitely not Swanigan levels. But, I have contended that I think Haas will be a better NBA player than Swanigan. At this point, post injury, Haas will be lucky to get drafted but most agree that he will end up in a NBA camp next fall, so we'll see.
Meanwhile up at the NBA, Swany was demoted to the G League and tore it up down there and is back in Portland. His numbers aren't pretty - but as a first round draft pick, he probably gets another season or two to figure it out.
I think this is still too close to call. Haas might not make it to the NBA, but if he does, Swany has not the set the bar high for rookie year performance.. Stay tuned...
