Who have been the best hoops players after transferring away from NU?

[SmellyCat]

I was thinking about this today when someone mentioned Roper at the end of the ND bench, but are there any transfers who have gotten better after leaving NU? Sure, some have gone to better team situations, like going to North Carolina or Duke (though you can argue that NU did better in those years than UNC or Duke did after Nance/Young left), but did any become better? I mentioned on another thread that I hate that other schools get the best years of a player that NU develops, but then I couldn't think of any good examples. We really do a good job of holding onto our stars and rarely have to have the pain of watching them excel elsewhere.

Going back to the 1990s, we had Geno Carlisle and Rex Walters, but am I forgetting anyone since then? Has there been a player this century who did so well at his new school that we really really wished he were still in purple?

 

[GatoLouco]

Benson or Rap can be argued they would have strenghtned our team had they stayed.

They did not set the world on fire, it was in a mid major environment, but they would have helped.

Don't think they fit the "really really" wish they had stayed though.

 

[SmellyCat]

Yeah, if they are the best NU has lost, that's pretty good. I know we thought the sky was falling when Young and Nance left, and they were ok for their new teams, but NU got better after they left so we didn't feel that pain. I know I was worried about losing Boo and Barnhizer and have been happy to see they made it to their last years.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I have to admit I was wrong about Roper. Thought he was going to be a big loss.
Had the talent, but I guess the desire isn't there... or Shrewsberry has a bunch or good players.
Looking back though, Collins gave him lots of minutes as a freshman, but Roper made little to no progress his sophomore season.
He, like others, wanted to get up and down the court.

 

[Cataria]

I have to admit I was wrong about Roper. Thought he was going to be a big loss.
Had the talent, but I guess the desire isn't there... or Shrewsberry has a bunch or good players.
Looking back though, Collins gave him lots of minutes as a freshman, but Roper made little to no progress his sophomore season.
He, like others, wanted to get up and down the court.

He was injured a lot and that set him back and allowed other guys to step up. He would have played at the end of last year!

 

[Catreporter]

He played more last year for a mediocre Notre Dame team in transition with a new coach, but it looks like they have recruited over him.

 

[macarthur31]

Benson or Rap can be argued they would have strenghtned our team had they stayed.

They did not set the world on fire, it was in a mid major environment, but they would have helped.

Don't think they fit the "really really" wish they had stayed though.

During the Collins era, I always wondered "what-if" for Rapolas Ivanauskas as he had a compelling tool-set (and embodied Collins' affinity for stretch bigs). Even though he was a key player at Colgate, he was "a guy" against kenpom Tier A+B teams - in 6 games in '19 (NCAA-bound Red Raiders Squad), he had a 84.3 ORTG, 3.9%OREB, 18.2% DREB, 17-41/41.5% 2FG, 4-14/28.6 3FG. For perspective, 'Cats played 21 of 34 games last year vs Tier A+B teams, so in essence analogous to a B1G schedule.

He closed his D1 career playing 16.3% Min for Cincinnati, which was kp113 rated, and mid-tier in the American Athletic Conference - and he actually left the squad to play pro ball in Lithuania during that season. Which was understandable as I believe behind the scenes was tumultuous that season.

Maybe if we go alt-universe and pulled the grad transfer after 4 healthy years at Colgate, he may have been a solid contributor? -A notch above Tydus? He remains a pro in Lithuania, so it verifies he's got some chops.

 

[GatoLouco]

During the Collins era, I always wondered "what-if" for Rapolas Ivanauskas as he had a compelling tool-set (and embodied Collins' affinity for stretch bigs). Even though he was a key player at Colgate, he was "a guy" against kenpom Tier A+B teams - in 6 games in '19 (NCAA-bound Red Raiders Squad), he had a 84.3 ORTG, 3.9%OREB, 18.2% DREB, 17-41/41.5% 2FG, 4-14/28.6 3FG. For perspective, 'Cats played 21 of 34 games last year vs Tier A+B teams, so in essence analogous to a B1G schedule.

He closed his D1 career playing 16.3% Min for Cincinnati, which was kp113 rated, and mid-tier in the American Athletic Conference - and he actually left the squad to play pro ball in Lithuania during that season. Which was understandable as I believe behind the scenes was tumultuous that season.

Maybe if we go alt-universe and pulled the grad transfer after 4 healthy years at Colgate, he may have been a solid contributor? -A notch above Tydus? He remains a pro in Lithuania, so it verifies he's got some chops.

Wasn't Rap POY in the Patriot one year?

When he went to Cincy, his numbers seemed to confirm what you mentioned, at a higher level he was just "a guy".

But it bears saying Cincy was going through some 💩at the time. Rap jumped ship, early in the season, before an all out scandal that ended with the coach being fired. I think the official story he told is that he had the chance to play professionally in Lithuania (I believe he does not count towards limits on foreign players as he as citizenship).

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Robbie Beran also did the "grad transfer out" routine, following directly after Young and Nance.
Would it have been nice to have him last year?
Have to think he would have been ahead of Blake Smith and Justin Mullins for depth after the injuries.

And, of course, I wish Ryan Young had stuck around. Nicholson and Young would have been a nice platoon at the 5.

Nance? I'm okay with his departure, given Collins' "stretch 5" vision at the time. If Nance and Young had both stayed, Nicholson may never have played. Of course, if Collins had put Nance solely at the 4, with Beran backing him up, that could have worked... with Barnhizer playing the 3 much of the time and Berry, Buie and Audige getting lots of minutes. Hunger and Martinelli would have sat on the bench.
I think its fair to say that Nance's departure was the catalyst for the team's switch back to a defensive mindset and subsequent success.

 

[hdhntr1]

I have to admit I was wrong about Roper. Thought he was going to be a big loss.
Had the talent, but I guess the desire isn't there... or Shrewsberry has a bunch or good players.
Looking back though, Collins gave him lots of minutes as a freshman, but Roper made little to no progress his sophomore season.
He, like others, wanted to get up and down the court.

He was a significant loss for us but it did not work out as well for him as he imagined

 

[DaCat]

I was thinking about this today when someone mentioned Roper at the end of the ND bench, but are there any transfers who have gotten better after leaving NU? Sure, some have gone to better team situations, like going to North Carolina or Duke (though you can argue that NU did better in those years than UNC or Duke did after Nance/Young left), but did any become better? I mentioned on another thread that I hate that other schools get the best years of a player that NU develops, but then I couldn't think of any good examples. We really do a good job of holding onto our stars and rarely have to have the pain of watching them excel elsewhere.

Going back to the 1990s, we had Geno Carlisle and Rex Walters, but am I forgetting anyone since then? Has there been a player this century who did so well at his new school that we really really wished he were still in purple?

Back to the OP, it seems Geno and Rex were the biggest transfers out. The rest who left were not missed really.

 

[CappyNU]

The available choices for this century are:

Didn't/Barely played at NU
Gary Lee (MD Eastern Shore), Chier Ajou (Seton Hall), Johnnie Vasser (Tennessee Tech), Rapolas Ivanauskas (Colgate, Cincinnati)

One or two seasons at NU
Kyle Rowley (St. Mary's), Kale Abrahamson (Drake, Duquesne), Isiah Brown (Grand Canyon, Weber St.), Jared Jones (Middle Tenn., San Diego St.), Casey Simmons (Yale), and Julian Roper (ND)

Three or more at NU
Aaron Falzon (Quinnipiac), Jordan Ash (Wright St.), Barret Benson (S. Illinois), Anthony Gaines (Siena), Pete Nance (UNC), Miller Kopp (IU), Robbie Beran (Va. Tech), and Ryan Young (Duke)

I guess you could make an argument for Ryan Young, though he was surrounded by a ton of talent. Jared Jones became a pretty decent player in his 3rd year at Middle Tennessee and is now in his 6th year of college at San Diego St. Kopp's final year worked out well for him once he was the 5th option on the court instead of the top. Isiah Brown improved a lot by the time he got to Weber St. Rap had one good season at Colgate but couldn't replicate it the following year.

So yeah, not sure there's a real great answer.

 

[Secho99]

How are we like 10 replies into this thread and Professor Edward T McCants hasn’t come up yet?

(yeah yeah I realize he was dismissed, so not the same thing)

 

[EagerFan]

I would have liked to have had Roper on the team last year. I thought he'd come along pretty well, but limited by injuries the year prior, and would have been another steady hand assisting us after Ty was lost.

But that's not what the question of the thread is...

Ed Mccants had a nice little career at Milwaukee, took them to the sweet sixteen in 2005.

Brody Deren had a decent career at Creighton.

Kyle Rowley went to the Gaels and they went to the Dance both years he was there. He was mostly a five minutes off the bench guy, but that's a kind of success, right?

Aaron Falzon had an ok season at Qunnipac, and played professionally for a few years - he won a bronze medal with Malta at a FIBA tourney.

Isiah Brown didn't do much at Grand Canyon or Weber State, but he managed to get on an NBA summer league (LAC) that must have been fun.

Jared Jones is finishing his college career at San Diego State.

Ben Johnson was pretty good his senior year at Minnesota, and then as we all know went into coaching.

 

[SmellyCat]

The available choices for this century are:

Didn't/Barely played at NU
Gary Lee (MD Eastern Shore), Chier Ajou (Seton Hall), Johnnie Vasser (Tennessee Tech), Rapolas Ivanauskas (Colgate, Cincinnati)

One or two seasons at NU
Kyle Rowley (St. Mary's), Kale Abrahamson (Drake, Duquesne), Isiah Brown (Grand Canyon, Weber St.), Jared Jones (Middle Tenn., San Diego St.), Casey Simmons (Yale), and Julian Roper (ND)

Three or more at NU
Aaron Falzon (Quinnipiac), Jordan Ash (Wright St.), Barret Benson (S. Illinois), Anthony Gaines (Siena), Pete Nance (UNC), Miller Kopp (IU), Robbie Beran (Va. Tech), and Ryan Young (Duke)

I guess you could make an argument for Ryan Young, though he was surrounded by a ton of talent. Jared Jones became a pretty decent player in his 3rd year at Middle Tennessee and is now in his 6th year of college at San Diego St. Kopp's final year worked out well for him once he was the 5th option on the court instead of the top. Isiah Brown improved a lot by the time he got to Weber St. Rap had one good season at Colgate but couldn't replicate it the following year.

So yeah, not sure there's a real great answer.

But that there's not a great answer IS a great answer! It means that even with all the various levels of teeth-gnashing when these guys left, their departures didn't appear to ever prevent NU from greater success.

Nance was clearly the best player who left, and in a "whole = sum of its parts" mindset, it "hurt" NU, but as PWB said above, him leaving still became a net positive for the team, which worked together in a way it really never had before. That's not to say that Nance wasn't a good chemistry guy - it's just that the makeup of the team didn't work as well with him around.

 

[TheC]

But that there's not a great answer IS a great answer! It means that even with all the various levels of teeth-gnashing when these guys left, their departures didn't appear to ever prevent NU from greater success.

Nance was clearly the best player who left, and in a "whole = sum of its parts" mindset, it "hurt" NU, but as PWB said above, him leaving still became a net positive for the team, which worked together in a way it really never had before. That's not to say that Nance wasn't a good chemistry guy - it's just that the makeup of the team didn't work as well with him around.

I still think Rex Walters was the best who left, but if we're restricting it to this century, then I agree with you.

 

[cedricmelons]

I still think Rex Walters was the best who left, but if we're restricting it to this century, then I agree with you.

And Geno Carlisle would be 2nd to Walters over all the others.

 

[Secho99]

And Geno Carlisle would be 2nd to Walters over all the others.

Geno was FIRST team all-Big 10 for NU on a team that went 2-16 in conference play, which is pretty wild.

 

[JournCat]

Isiah Brown was an important part of the 2017 team — just by saving us against Rutgers alone in a year when losing to them would have killed our resume. He was a nice change of pace guard off the bench and I’d have liked to see him run things after Mac graduated and we still had Law and Pardon. I believe Collins would have gotten more out of him. Otherwise, not a lot of regrets. Nance staying another year would have gotten CC fired for the reasons stated above.

 

[NUera]

The only player in the last 25 years that I’ve regretting us losing - for whatever reason - was Kevin Coble.

(Honorable mention goes to Jimmy Maley, whom I thought could have been a really nice Carmody guy if depression hadn’t derailed him. Word is he broke through that wall and has helped a lot of kids as a coach, teacher and mental health advocate.)

 

[Catreporter]

Carlisle leaving was a killer back then because I believe Esch came in the very next year and they would have been a potent duo in the Big Ten.

 

[StratCat84]

Carlisle leaving was a killer back then because I believe Esch came in the very next year and they would have been a potent duo in the Big Ten.

Rumor had it that he said had he known Esch was going to be healthy and play he would have stayed. Those 2 playing together would have been something!

 

[pschatz25]

EE arrived first, in Fall 1993, but he missed his first two seasons completely. He finally played starting with the 1995-96 season. Geno arrived in Fall 94. They did play together for that 1995-96 season. Geno averaged 20 PPG and EE was 9 PPG/6 RPG. The rest of the roster is, uh, a reminder of a begone era of NU basketball (Dan Kreft, good grief). The team went 7-20 (2-16 in conference). Geno transferred to Cal and EE continued to improve in Evanston.

I think I've seen that alleged Geno quote before, but it doesn't match up with reality. EE played every game and averaged 26 minutes in 1995-96, so he was clearly healthy. Maybe Geno didn't think EE would get as good as he did. It would have been interesting to see what they could have done if they had stayed together.

They almost played against each other in the 1999 NIT (keep in mind that Geno had to sit out a year after transferring so that's why he was still playing that season). NU lost a hard fought (as I remember it) game to DePaul in the first round. Then DePaul hosted Geno's Cal team in the second round. I still remember going out to AllState Arena to cheer for Cal, who won by 1 and ended up winning the NIT.

 

[EvanstonCat]

How are we like 10 replies into this thread and Professor Edward T McCants hasn’t come up yet?

(yeah yeah I realize he was dismissed, so not the same thing)

Because I haven’t been on. Honorable Mention All American, Conference MVP. We missed out on Edward T. McCants.

This said, Rex Walters who was All Big12 and drafted out of Kansas was our best transfer player after NU. What could have been had Foster’s kids (4 who started for NCAA tourney teams) had not transferred.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Carlisle leaving was a killer back then because I believe Esch came in the very next year and they would have been a potent duo in the Big Ten.

Esch didn’t “come in” he was injured and so never played with Carlisle but he actually matriculated prior to Geno.

 

[The Purple Knight]

He was a significant loss for us but it did not work out as well for him as he imagined

Roper no big loss. underachiever

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

I would have liked to have had Roper on the team last year. I thought he'd come along pretty well, but limited by injuries the year prior, and would have been another steady hand assisting us after Ty was lost.

But that's not what the question of the thread is...

Ed Mccants had a nice little career at Milwaukee, took them to the sweet sixteen in 2005.

Brody Deren had a decent career at Creighton.

Kyle Rowley went to the Gaels and they went to the Dance both years he was there. He was mostly a five minutes off the bench guy, but that's a kind of success, right?

Aaron Falzon had an ok season at Qunnipac, and played professionally for a few years - he won a bronze medal with Malta at a FIBA tourney.

Isiah Brown didn't do much at Grand Canyon or Weber State, but he managed to get on an NBA summer league (LAC) that must have been fun.

Jared Jones is finishing his college career at San Diego State.

Ben Johnson was pretty good his senior year at Minnesota, and then as we all know went into coaching.

Roper hardly played today in their route of Georgetown. Matt Allocco had a big game for the Irish. Would have loved to have had him in Purple.