My bad. I'll try to do better the first opportunity I have next.
Will Fleck be the first domino to fall next?
- Thread starter villox
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My bad. I'll try to do better the first opportunity I have next.
This, to me, is the worst part of it all - there was a narrow window for everyone to treat this like it was - reasonable but critical mistakes in judgment, lack of oversight, an opportunity to be a case study in FBS program management with a happy ending - "if it can happen here, it can happen anywhere - he's how we fix it."
Now the cherished adversarial process will pervert any hope we had for anyone to behave honestly and with integrity.
The rush to “fix” this from the initial statement is what sent this spiraling out of control. I believe the damage done will take years to get past, if ever. I can’t think of anything the Administration did correctly.
The full extent of what is fact, what is embellished, and what is a lie, is buried in mounds of legal proceedings. At the end of the day, everyone will get paid ( Fitz, Players). Bozo and Cookie will eventually be relieved of their jobs and program will look like Orikhiv circa 2023 .
Only if you ate the watermelon while being humped by guys in Purge masks.
Also, a quick refresher for others who aren’t following your train of thought:
So let me get this straight...
NCRNU71 asks if being forced to participate in a watermelon eating contest constitutes hazing...
and you accuse him of making a "straw man" argument?
I would point out to you that you didn't make an argument at all and neither did he.
Do I really have to explain this to you?
He’s clearly arguing that even the most minor & innocent of things could be considered hazing.
I’m arguing that we have a number of legitimate hazing instances which clearly represented a silent but constant trend over the past two decades.
What is actually hazing and what is not has been discussed at length on this board. Lots of people were noticing that the players who
Came to Fitz defense never denied that hazing occurred.
Clearly what is alleged in the lawsuit is hazing. By the definition in dictionary.com (subjecting someone to ridicule) forcing rookies to put on a talent show (which every team on Hard Knocks has participated in) is hazing. You could argue that calling out a players poor performance in front of the team is hazing.
I guess my point is we need to come up with a more descriptive term than hazing. Assault (verbal, physical) is probably more accurate.
He asked a question. He had not posted before in this thread.
Seemed like a fair question to me.
The definition in dictionary.com doesn't matter here, other than to give people cover for using the word "hazing."
The definition in Northwestern's Student Code of Conduct matters a lot.
University of Oregon specifically defines "hazing" too.
Their definition is different from Northwestern's.
It doesn't apply at Northwestern, but it would likely be what Michael Schill defined as "hazing."
It’s an element of truth, mixed with many exaggerations, anonymous complaints and media click bait....driven by lawyer greed and doused with cancel culture mob rule. End result, destruction of a program and all its history.
It feels like I’ve seen countless variations of that same question.
“Is singing the school song hazing?”
Yes, if you’re being pelted by tennis balls in the face by someone while doing so.
Fleck apparently quizzed players on the contents of his ‘Row the Boat’ book. I love it. It’s like the professor assigning his own textbook, but also the textbook is written by an idiot.
You can do amazing things when your recognize that ‘juice’ and ‘use’ rhyme.
- F.I.S.T. — Family Invested Same Time “Keep it Tight”
- S.F./A.M./F.S. — Start Fast, Accelerate Middle, Finish Strong
- “If You’re Juiceless, You’re Useless If You’re Juiceful, You’re Useful”
- “Roof Over Your Head – Better Off Than 73% of The World”
You can do amazing things when your recognize that ‘juice’ and ‘use’ rhyme.
Yeah, but not really. He was denied the second chance because the President got pressure and buckled. I don't think he would have been spared if he had changed his response to "It's my job to know about this kind of behavior in our program and I failed in making sure it didn't happen. I will do everything in my power to make sure it never happens again."
I agree with the rest of what you wrote, but the lack of a second chance is squarely on Schill.
There is significant nuance to the question.
If 100% of the people involved in some ritual or weird group behavior say it doesn't bother them and "we're just screwing around" or whatever, does that behavior become offensive when a couple of people say they suffered emotionally because of it? (This would imply that the behavior is offensive depending on the individuals involved). And you really can't say "The rest of you should be offended" and expect that to fly.
So thats why people ask specific questions like "Is forcing someone to skip around the football field a form of hazing, even if it is a known punishment for bad behavior?"
The first chance was when he didn’t acknowledge his failure. Two-week suspension was the first chance. Pretending it was much ado about nothing was the first chance.
NU’s handling of the first change — and I have no doubt the two week suspension was a joint decision — was so off the mark that any opportunity for a second chance was lost.
I assume you aren’t laughing at the destruction of a program segment of that statement. It’s about like a death penalty, maybe there will be a recovery in 15 years, similar to SMU.
Welcome back, Turk! We missed you.
No, I’m laughing at the Chicken Littles who are acting like the program will be decimated.
If we hire the right head coach, then we’ll eventually be fine.
If we hire a bum, then we won’t. It’s not that complicated. Leadership matters and there are plenty of good coaches who want this job.
I’ve never posted here before . You are reactionary but not very sharp. if you notice the same me too media smears were tried at Minnesota against Fleck and they got laughed off, their program will remain intact. prior to that similar smears were tried against Iowa and Ferentz, they were unsuccessful. Unfortunately for Northwestern, there are too many fans like you who thrive on cancel culture, so the Northwestern program never had a chance to survive this nonsense.
You haven’t hit rock bottom yet, give it time.
You haven’t hit rock bottom yet, give it time.
Wrong.
"Northwestern Football players DO NOT tolerate hazing. We want to reiterate that as representatives of the Northwestern Football program, we do not tolerate hazing in any form. Hazing goes against our values of respect, integrity, and personal growth. We are committed to fostering a supportive and inclusive environment that promotes the well-being and development of every individual on our team. The recent allegations brought forth are exaggerated and twisted. It is disheartening to see that the allegations brought forth against our team have been exaggerated and twisted into lies. These fabrications have been made with the intention of harming our program and tarnish the reputation of our dedicated players and coaching staff. We firmly deny the validity of these accusations and stand united in our assertion that they do not reflect the true character of our team.
Northwestern Football Players Push Back Against Allegations of Hazing in Statement
A statement signed by “The ENTIRE Northwestern Football Team” responded to the disturbing details that surfaced Saturday.
You are proving my point. The dictionary definition of hazing is subjecting someone to harassment or ridicule.Wrong.
"Northwestern Football players DO NOT tolerate hazing. We want to reiterate that as representatives of the Northwestern Football program, we do not tolerate hazing in any form. Hazing goes against our values of respect, integrity, and personal growth. We are committed to fostering a supportive and inclusive environment that promotes the well-being and development of every individual on our team. The recent allegations brought forth are exaggerated and twisted. It is disheartening to see that the allegations brought forth against our team have been exaggerated and twisted into lies. These fabrications have been made with the intention of harming our program and tarnish the reputation of our dedicated players and coaching staff. We firmly deny the validity of these accusations and stand united in our assertion that they do not reflect the true character of our team.
Northwestern Football Players Push Back Against Allegations of Hazing in Statement
A statement signed by “The ENTIRE Northwestern Football Team” responded to the disturbing details that surfaced Saturday.www.si.com
Forcing freshmen to sing the fight song in front of the team is hazing. What rookies are forced to do on Hard Knocks is hazing. One man’s horseplay is another man’s hazing.
We need more descriptive terms for locker room behavior.
Northwestern definition of hazing is all that matters.
Anyhow, if the NU football players believe "that wasn't hazing" then they can pass a lie detector test every time they say "there was no hazing."
In other words, those guys don't think they did anything wrong.
To me, that is very important.
Others on this board (and in the administration) obnoxiously believe they are the ones to determine how everybody else should feel about right and wrong.
The concept of "punishment" for violating team rules is being totally ignored as well.
