Best NU hoopster of all time

[SmellyCat]

Any real discussion of single greatest NU hoopster of all time begins and ends with just three names: McKinney, Shurna, and Eschmeyer. Sure, there are others in the ballpark, but I doubt "Other" would get many votes to overcome those top three.

My question is: what does Buie have to do to break into that group this year? Obviously back-to-back NCAA berths is a must, but does he need to win the Big Ten? Go to the Final Four? Can he?

 

[thewildcat2011]

Any real discussion of single greatest NU hoopster of all time begins and ends with just three names: McKinney, Shurna, and Eschmeyer. Sure, there are others in the ballpark, but I doubt "Other" would get many votes to overcome those top three.

My question is: what does Buie have to do to break into that group this year? Obviously back-to-back NCAA berths is a must, but does he need to win the Big Ten? Go to the Final Four? Can he?

When it comes to team goals, he’s already accomplished more than that group by just making the NCAAT and finishing second in the conference.

If he ends up taking the scoring crown from Shurna (would require another season like last year), then I’d give it to him. He’s nowhere close on assists.

 

[Sec.112]

At first glance, I'd say Boo will generally always be part of B group. With overall stats, he's nowhere in the ballpark of those three. You really can't count a fifth year.

HOWEVER, if you want to make the argument, you might have a chance when you look at B10 scoring between Boo and Shurna.

Boo - 1016 pts / 74 B10 games
Shurna - 1041 / 71 B10 games

The site I look at didn't break out B10 games for Esch and McKinney. I assume McKinney would CRUSH all of them with a 3-pt line.

All of these storylines change if Boo leads these guys to a second tournament, and the program takes on the long shot of a new long-term persona. 🤞

 

[SmellyCat]

All of these storylines change if Boo leads these guys to a second tournament, and the program takes on the long shot of a new long-term persona. 🤞

Yeah, this is of course what we're all hoping for. If NU becomes a regular contender in the near future, it will presumably in large part be because of Boo Buie's career. That doesn't necessarily make him "better" than Shurna, but if you are making a four-person Mt. Rushmore of NU basketball greats, he certainly has a shot to be that fourth player (and he might already be).

 

[TheC]

Dick Vitale had Buie in his first-team pre-season All-American team. If Buie is an All-American this year, he enters that NU Mount Rushmore.

 

[clarificationcat]

Yeah, this is of course what we're all hoping for. If NU becomes a regular contender in the near future, it will presumably in large part be because of Boo Buie's career. That doesn't necessarily make him "better" than Shurna, but if you are making a four-person Mt. Rushmore of NU basketball greats, he certainly has a shot to be that fourth player (and he might already be).

The other 3 were really good in multiple seasons. I would argue that Buie was only really good last year. I agree if he has another great season and we go back to the tournament he belongs at the top with the other 3. McIntosh had an injury filled senior season. Through his junior year, he probably had a better record than Buie.

 

[NUCat320]

Where’s McIntosh land?

He can still take Boo, right? (No, he can’t.)

If Rushmore had five heads, I’d put Mc and Boo there but, as it stands, it’s probably Boo on top regardless of what happens this year.

 

[GOUNUII]

Any real discussion of single greatest NU hoopster of all time begins and ends with just three names: McKinney, Shurna, and Eschmeyer. Sure, there are others in the ballpark, but I doubt "Other" would get many votes to overcome those top three.

My question is: what does Buie have to do to break into that group this year? Obviously back-to-back NCAA berths is a must, but does he need to win the Big Ten? Go to the Final Four? Can he?

Screw the stats and other indicia of distinguished achievement. In 1991 I was at St. John Arena in Columbus to see the Cats take on the Bucks. Sitting right behind the team bench, and at my end of the Court, I witnessed Cedric Neloms as a true Fr. first hit the 3 from the corner and then on the next series go down the baseline for a violent dunk over 2 Buckeye defenders. I had never seen a NU hoopster make any sort of statement like that. Not even close.

And I knew - at that moment - and without doubt - that Cedric had a place on my personal Mt. Rushmore of NU hoopsters.

GOUNUII

 

[SmellyCat]

Screw the stats and other indicia of distinguished achievement. In 1991 I was at St. John Arena in Columbus to see the Cats take on the Bucks. Sitting right behind the team bench, and at my end of the Court, I witnessed Cedric Neloms as a true Fr. first hit the 3 from the corner and then on the next series go down the baseline for a violent dunk over 2 Buckeye defenders. I had never seen a NU hoopster make any sort of statement like that. Not even close.

And I knew - at that moment - and without doubt - that Cedric had a place on my personal Mt. Rushmore of NU hoopsters.

GOUNUII

Love this. Depends on how big we're allowed to have our Mt. Rushmores, but he's way up there for me too, especially for his game-winner against Illinois.

 

[SmellyCat]

As for B-Mac, I'm thinking maybe he's the fourth guy right now, but more like Teddy Roosevelt than Lincoln/Jefferson/Washington. He walked so Boo could run.

I'd also like to see Tap throw the ball up to Pardon so he could lay it in Thomas Jefferson's nostril.

 

[combes]

The best NU player I’ve seen in my time as a fan was Dale Kelley. Heck of a guard. Averaged 16, 18, 24 in his three seasons. No three point line and he would have made a lot of them. McIntosh was not at the same level. Recency bias.

I’m older, obviously. Youngsters should read up on Kelley. Better than Boo who takes a high volume of shots with a pretty low percentage. Until last season, he would shoot NU out of some games. Kelley was consistently really good for three seasons.

 

[Catreporter]

Going way back, Frank Ehman was a first team all-american in '53-54 (haven't had many of those). I saw him lead NU to an epic 100-90 win over Indiana led by Bobby Leonard and Don Schlundt who had just won the national championship in 1953.

 

[Hkjb]

If Boo ends up first team all America and leads us back to a second tourney, he'll be immortalised. No idea who is actually the best player - these things are usually driven by the wider context and not just the performance. On one hand, Boo led the team to the promised land when expectations were at a low point after losing Young and Nance. That says a lot about his hunger and will to win, even if it isn't in the stats. On the other hand, none of the other contenders had the benefit of a defensive mastermind like Lowery. If they had, arguably they may have had storybook seasons as well. No doubt that the defensive improvement (and with it, the winning) have boosted the well deserved recognition that Boo is getting. One other thing I really like about Boo is that he faced up to his own issues and decided to change - with notable help from Talor Battle. Still, not easy to do.

 

[CappyNU]

On the other hand, none of the other contenders had the benefit of a defensive mastermind like Lowery.

Please, the preferred nomenclature is defensive wizard, or defensive 🧙‍♂️.

Signed,
The management

 

[Hkjb]

Please, the preferred nomenclature is defensive wizard, or defensive 🧙‍♂️.

Signed,
The management

Please forgive my transgression.

 

[loyolacat]

IN the woulda, coulda, shoulda category how bout Coble? if he ever committed to 100% or Rex Walters if he hadnt transferred...and Reggie Hearn if he had matured earlier... but in the pure excitement, dedication, effort, talent category gotta be Juice Williams for me.

 

[mickbula]

The new guard from Princeton reminds me a lot of craig moore during the Carmody era. I think craig is administration material at Princeton now?

 

[NUCat320]

IN the woulda, coulda, shoulda category how bout Coble? if he ever committed to 100% or Rex Walters if he hadnt transferred...and Reggie Hearn if he had matured earlier... but in the pure excitement, dedication, effort, talent category gotta be Juice Williams for me.

Thompson, but yes.

Juice Thompson was a great, great baller. In terms of pure joy to watch, which is definitely not the same as best, it’s him, Jitim, Boo, and Hachad for me.

Jitim seems almost forgotten — he was saddled with generally bad players around him. But there’s something special about a 6’2” bowling ball who can hit the offensive glass.

And Hachad could dunk, when most NU players couldn’t 🤷🏼‍♂️

(Pretty sure Juice Williams was the name of a quarterback, or even two?, at Illinois.)

 

[Katatonic]

In these type of discussions, would take out team success since so many variables are outside players' control.

In terms of PG of fairly recent vintage, would have to list Juice as tops (he was very good for all 4 seasons, including from 3 pt range).

If Juice had a Covid year - he, along with Johnny and Crawford would have taken the Cats dancing.

 

[Catreporter]

Juice was money from the free throw line which was huge late in games. I think he once hit 39 in a row.

 

[combes]

Thompson, but yes.

Juice Thompson was a great, great baller. In terms of pure joy to watch, which is definitely not the same as best, it’s him, Jitim, Boo, and Hachad for me.

Jitim seems almost forgotten — he was saddled with generally bad players around him. But there’s something special about a 6’2” bowling ball who can hit the offensive glass.

And Hachad could dunk, when most NU players couldn’t 🤷🏼‍♂️

(Pretty sure Juice Williams was the name of a quarterback, or even two?, at Illinois.)

Just one Juice Williams at Illinois. Current wide receiver shares the same name but is not nicknamed Juice.

 

[cats1967]

Best NU basketball player? Same answer as who is the best NU football player. Otto Graham.

 

[hdhntr1]

At first glance, I'd say Boo will generally always be part of B group. With overall stats, he's nowhere in the ballpark of those three. You really can't count a fifth year.

HOWEVER, if you want to make the argument, you might have a chance when you look at B10 scoring between Boo and Shurna.

Boo - 1016 pts / 74 B10 games
Shurna - 1041 / 71 B10 games

The site I look at didn't break out B10 games for Esch and McKinney. I assume McKinney would CRUSH all of them with a 3-pt line.

All of these storylines change if Boo leads these guys to a second tournament, and the program takes on the long shot of a new long-term persona. 🤞

It is reasonable to look at BIG games as we play a lot more of them than we did in the past and therefore less OOC games. D in BIG is stronger than many of those OOC games

 

[gradeck]

If Juice had a Covid year - he, along with Johnny and Crawford would have taken the Cats dancing.

They did all play together in 2009-10 and 2010-11.

 

[ballerog711]

Question. If Brooks continues to put up numbers like he has and leads NU to the tournament 3 years in a row, would he be in the conversation?

 

[Gatabowl]

Vedran had back to back seasons with the following numbers:
16.9 ppg (fourth in big ten) on 58% from 2 and 36% from 3
19.0 ppg (second in big ten) on 60%(!) from 2 and 36% from 3

6’8 245 with a smooth jumper.

He’s not in the conversation for all time greatest but how was Mo Hachad (who I also loved) mentioned before him?!

 

[SmellyCat]

Question. If Brooks continues to put up numbers like he has and leads NU to the tournament 3 years in a row, would he be in the conversation?

If you're talking numbers that he had against McKendree and Binghamton but against Big 10 and NCAA competition, sure. But then again, those are All-American numbers!

 

[EagerFan]

If Vedran didn't have that recurring shoulder injury issue, the Cats would have won a lot more games during his time here. Kid was a talented and super competitive.

 

[mickbula]

If Vedran didn't have that recurring shoulder injury issue, the Cats would have won a lot more games during his time here. Kid was a talented and super competitive.

Not sure about that. Remember the near loss to wheaton college?? He was at full strength as was the team. I think we won by 1 or 2. Their cheering section was about 100x louder than ours too. Dark days and ages indeed

 

[FeralFelidae]

Best NU basketball player? Same answer as who is the best NU football player. Otto Graham.

He actually started on a basketball scholarship and he was named a first-team All-American. I don't know if he's THE best, and of course he was from another era, but he has to be up there.

 

[NUCat320]

Vedran had back to back seasons with the following numbers:
16.9 ppg (fourth in big ten) on 58% from 2 and 36% from 3
19.0 ppg (second in big ten) on 60%(!) from 2 and 36% from 3

6’8 245 with a smooth jumper.

He’s not in the conversation for all time greatest but how was Mo Hachad (who I also loved) mentioned before him?!

Because I mentioned Hachad simply as a dude I loved to watch, alongside Juice and Jitim.

Vedran was a one man wrecking crew as a senior. I think he finished something like 0.2ppg behind Alando Tucker, second in the league in scoring. Such an good player.

 

[SmellyCat]

Because I mentioned Hachad simply as a dude I loved to watch, alongside Juice and Jitim.

Maybe there should be a poll for Wildcat player you most loved to watch. I think I'd go with Patrick Baldwin.

 

[EagerFan]

I enjoyed watching Senator Napoleon Harris on the court. He had some hops

 

[CappyNU]

Not sure about that. Remember the near loss to wheaton college?? He was at full strength as was the team. I think we won by 1 or 2. Their cheering section was about 100x louder than ours too. Dark days and ages indeed

Vedran was not on that team, he had graduated the year before. "Fun" fact, we held three teams to 39 points that year, winning all 3 games. The margin of victory was 10, 1 and 2 respectively.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Vedran was not on that team, he had graduated the year before. "Fun" fact, we held three teams to 39 points that year, winning all 3 games. The margin of victory was 10, 1 and 2 respectively.

I remember. Watching the Big Ten West this year compares well.

 

[Gatabowl]

Maybe there should be a poll for Wildcat player you most loved to watch. I think I'd go with Patrick Baldwin.

Jeremy Nash up there for me.

 

[Katatonic]

They did all play together in 2009-10 and 2010-11.

Yes, but another year would have meant playing with a more experienced, upperclassmen Crawford, along with talented younguns like Cobb.

While recruiting wasn't BC's forte, he did have an eye for talent; unfortunately, he could never get more than 1 impact player at a time - Coble, Juice, Shurna, Crawford and Cobb all arriving in succession, so never had enough key players peaking at the same time.

Would the Cats have made the Tourney last season with a Soph Boo?

Don't think so.

Vedran had back to back seasons with the following numbers:
16.9 ppg (fourth in big ten) on 58% from 2 and 36% from 3
19.0 ppg (second in big ten) on 60%(!) from 2 and 36% from 3

6’8 245 with a smooth jumper.

He’s not in the conversation for all time greatest but how was Mo Hachad (who I also loved) mentioned before him?!

Agree that VV is oft overlooked.

Took some time for Hachad to get going on O, but was an impact on D early on.

 

[Gatabowl]

Yes, but another year would have meant playing with a more experienced, upperclassmen Crawford, along with talented younguns like Cobb.

While recruiting wasn't BC's forte, he did have an eye for talent; unfortunately, he could never get more than 1 impact player at a time - Coble, Juice, Shurna, Crawford and Cobb all arriving in succession, so never had enough key players peaking at the same time.

Would the Cats have made the Tourney last season with a Soph Boo?

Don't think so.




Agree that VV is oft overlooked.

Took some time for Hachad to get going on O, but was an impact on D early on.

I remember going to Split and mentioning that I was a classmate of his and people freaked out that I even knew of him. Hometown is very proud of him.

 

[gradeck]

While recruiting wasn't BC's forte, he did have an eye for talent; unfortunately, he could never get more than 1 impact player at a time - Coble, Juice, Shurna, Crawford and Cobb all arriving in succession, so never had enough key players peaking at the same time.

Would the Cats have made the Tourney last season with a Soph Boo?

Don't think so.

2010-11 was the big “what if” year because Coble did not play. Add him to that existing team and that could have been the first-ever tournament team.

 

[Katatonic]

^ Yeah, but rather have that whole thing expunged from my memory...