Coaches Lose Another One

[YesterdaysCat]

Look I don't want to rehash this old comparison of our previous head coaches to Fitz. It's not fair to any of them because it it completely different set of circumstances. BTW, pretty much every P5 coach gets paid millions unless they are a first time coach or have an interim tag. Welcome to college football.

You must be a youngster, or was under a different handle previously if you can't remember all the critics of the coaches you mention above. Yes, this includes the beloved Barnett. So I'll ask you who exactly you would prefer to run this program.

It's so predictable that a horrendous game brings the people out of the wood work that were nowhere to be found when we won games we had no business winning last year. We played last year the way we needed to and that won games. That is the coaches job and Fitz and staff did that last year. Nice job. Yesterday, they did not play to our strengths and it cost us. Happens and has to get better.

Now once again, who do you want leading the program? Give us some specifics.

Fitzgerald has generally padded his record with a lot of wins over non-Power Five and FCS cupcakes (Illinois State, Towson, Northeastern, Rice, Western Illinois, to name a few) and weaker Big Ten teams (5-0 against Indiana, 6-4 vs. Illinois, 6-3 vs. Minnesota).

Many coaches get fat on weaklings, but they don't usually survive to Year 11 without winning their conference or beating the conference powers.

Yet Fitz has never beaten OSU (0-4). He has defeated Michigan only once (1-7). He is 2-5 versus Penn State. He is 2-6 against MSU. He is 5-5 against Iowa but hasn't beaten them since 2012.

Not since Voigts has an NU coach been given so much institutional support. And Voigts won the Rose Bowl. What happened after that? The N Club forced him out after three straight losing seasons.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Fitzgerald has generally padded his record with a lot of wins over non-Power Five and FCS cupcakes (Illinois State, Towson, Northeastern, Rice, Western Illinois, to name a few) and weaker Big Ten teams (5-0 against Indiana, 6-4 vs. Illinois, 6-3 vs. Minnesota).

Many coaches get fat on weaklings, but they don't usually survive to Year 11 without winning their conference or beating the conference powers.

Yet Fitz has never beaten OSU (0-4). He has defeated Michigan only once (1-7). He is 2-5 versus Penn State. He is 2-6 against MSU. He is 5-5 against Iowa but hasn't beaten them since 2012.

Not since Voigts has an NU coach been given so much institutional support. And Voigts won the Rose Bowl. What happened after that? The N Club forced him out after three straight losing seasons.

I 'll ask a third time, who do you want running the program?

 

[Bwm57]

I 'll ask a third time, who do you want running the program?

Ditka.

 

[catfans5]

I 'll ask a third time, who do you want running the program?

From what I saw Saturday, PJ Fleck would be fine. NIU's coach. An Urban Meyer assistant. I did not say get rid of Fitz. My original comment is that with FTZ at the helm, NU would never win a B10 Championship. I do not see a West Division crown either.

Illinois (Lovie took a team to the Super Bowl), Iowa, Minny, Neb & Wiscy have either established or new coaches. Does Fitz rank better than how many of these coaches? I would say maybe Minny; but as NU has academic restrictions, Minny has weather and geographical constraints.

 

[willycat]

Criticism is fine. "Fitz will never take us to BIG championship Game" seems a bit much from one performance in 2016, no?

His record indicates that's it's true.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

From what I saw Saturday, PJ Fleck would be fine. NIU's coach. An Urban Meyer assistant. I did not say get rid of Fitz. My original comment is that with FTZ at the helm, NU would never win a B10 Championship. I do not see a West Division crown either.

Illinois (Lovie took a team to the Super Bowl), Iowa, Minny, Neb & Wiscy have either established or new coaches. Does Fitz rank better than how many of these coaches? I would say maybe Minny; but as NU has academic restrictions, Minny has weather and geographical constraints.

I think he ranks above Riley, Chryst, Cleays, and frankly Lovie too ( for the college game). I am saying this by including all facets of being a HC in today's college environment. You certainly can make an argument that these coaches are better ( not my opinion) but I still feel none of them would have more success at NU.

 

[Gladeskat]

When was the last time we blocked a punt or pressure a punter?

The Penn State game comes to mind. The resulting penalty completely changed the momentum in that game. I felt that trying the block was one of the worst calls I saw all year, but Fitz and staff saw something that they could exploit and tried it. Trying to block a punt can be risky.

I have been critical of Pat. Yesterday puts him in double digits of losses that I would place on the staff.

That's pretty good over ten seasons. In a zero-sum game, this would put his staff among the better staffs in the country.

He threw his players under the bus when he said we need to look at ourselves, suggestive of prima donnas. It is his job to get them ready. I will grant that WMU was a good team. Fleck had the schemes and his team ready to play. We did not? Whose fault is that?

He didn't throw his players under the bus. If he did, this would have read "THEY need to look at themselves". Fault also rests with the players. They're the ones with the rare opportunity to play the game.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

I 'll ask a third time, who do you want running the program?

Is that the best you can do, create a straw man? I never said that *I* could identify a better head coach. I'm pretty sure that NU could hire someone very good, though.

We had one of best in Parseghian and Waldorf was well regarded in his day. Barnett was such a hot commodity that he turned down Notre Dame and UCLA. Green led Stanford and two NFL teams. Walker helped to change college football by bringing the spread to the Big Ten and his coaching tree includes an NFL head coach and several NCAA head coaches.

So to say that we would be hopeless and lost without Pat demonstrates a lack of historical perspective, my little purple kool aid youngling.

Again, kindly avoid straw man arguments. They just show you went to NU when admissions standards were too relaxed.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

I think he ranks above Riley, Chryst, Cleays, and frankly Lovie too ( for the college game). I am saying this by including all facets of being a HC in today's college environment. You certainly can make an argument that these coaches are better ( not my opinion) but I still feel none of them would have more success at NU.

What a laugh. Claeys hasn't been Minny's head man for a full season yet but you just know he's inferior? (Im inclined to agree with you, but what's the basis other than Fitzgerald has been a head coach longer?) Jury is out on Lovie too.

Chryst just beat LSU. Weren't they #4? When is the last time Pat beat a top 5 team? BY MY COUNT, 7 YEARS AGO.

Riley has won 100 college games and is 7-2 in bowls. What is Pat's record in bowls?

Saying any of these guys would fail at NU is another straw man. That's not what the other poster said and it's completely unprovable that they would have a poorer record at NU than Pat does.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Is that the best you can do, create a straw man? I never said that *I* could identify a better head coach. I'm pretty sure that NU could hire someone very good, though.

We had one of best in Parseghian and Waldorf was well regarded in his day. Barnett was such a hot commodity that he turned down Notre Dame and UCLA. Green led Stanford and two NFL teams. Walker helped to change college football by bringing the spread to the Big Ten and his coaching tree includes an NFL head coach and several NCAA head coaches.

So to say that we would be hopeless and lost without Pat demonstrates a lack of historical perspective, my little purple kool aid youngling.

Again, kindly avoid straw man arguments. They just show you went to NU when admissions standards were too relaxed.

Lol. I didn't go to NU. My new boy, you would know that if you participated here in the past, but you would rather come spew your venom after a loss. The topic of Fitz versus all your past heroes has been regurgitated over and over again after our back to back poor seasons. I am not going to rehash all of the those tired arguments, because you will just resort to your own straw man.

I am not sure where I said we would be "hopeless" and "lost" without Pat. I said I didnt't think the others would do BETTER. Apparently, you build your own conclusions to support your argument.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

What a laugh. Claeys hasn't been Minny's head man for a full season yet but you just know he's inferior? (Im inclined to agree with you, but what's the basis other than Fitzgerald has been a head coach longer?) Jury is out on Lovie too.

Chryst just beat LSU. Weren't they #4? When is the last time Pat beat a top 5 team? BY MY COUNT, 7 YEARS AGO.

Riley has won 100 college games and is 7-2 in bowls. What is Pat's record in bowls?

Saying any of these guys would fail at NU is another straw man. That's not what the other poster said and it's completely unprovable that they would have a poorer record at NU than Pat does.

Again, I never said they would fail. Read please. I said I didn't think they would do better.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Again, I never said they would fail. Read please. I said I didn't think they would do better.

Considering Fitzgerald has failed to beat OSU (0-4) and has gone 1-7 vs. Michigan, 2-6 vs. MSU, and 2-5 vs. PSU, you're saying they would do worse, right?

 

[Fitz51]

Bama or OSU would beat NU by 50. OSU will get their chance soon enough........

Exactly. Like every rating system had NU and WMU within 5 of each other, and some had WMU higher. Why can't some people accept the teams were pretty evenly matched?

 

[Colonel Kong]

Haven't looked at this board in a very long time, so maybe I am somewhat outside NU fandom and therefore somewhat objective. My take: the program has done very well, considering all the factors at play. Fitz, although IMO not a very good tactical football coach, has done well. That said, I don't see us winning any B10 championships. The only way that possibly happens is with a major institutional shift in emphasis and standards, the hiring of a coach whose main credential is not school loyalty, etc. 30 years ago we would have been thrilled to be this competitive, and have a shot at a bowl most years. Success seems to have raised expectations beyond the limits and realities of the program.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Lol. I didn't go to NU. My new boy, you would know that if you participated here in the past, but you would rather come spew your venom after a loss. The topic of Fitz versus all your past heroes has been regurgitated over and over again after our back to back poor seasons. I am not going to rehash all of the those tired arguments, because you will just resort to your own straw man.

I am not sure where I said we would be "hopeless" and "lost" without Pat. I said I didnt't think the others would do BETTER. Apparently, you build your own conclusions to support your argument.

Hard to do worse frankly, unless you're John Pont. Pat hasn't beaten Iowa since 2012. Against the upper tier of the conference his record is truly bad. Other than Stanford and Wisky wins, not much to celebrate for last three years.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Haven't looked at this board in a very long time, so maybe I am somewhat outside NU fandom and therefore somewhat objective. My take: the program has done very well, considering all the factors at play. Fitz, although IMO not a very good tactical football coach, has done well. That said, I don't see us winning any B10 championships. The only way that possibly happens is with a major institutional shift in emphasis and standards, the hiring of a coach whose main credential is not school loyalty, etc. 30 years ago we would have been thrilled to be this competitive, and have a shot at a bowl most years. Success seems to have raised expectations beyond the limits and realities of the program.

True but go back to the early 60s and it was not unusual to beat ND, Oklahoma and other top programs.

 

[Fitz51]

True but go back to the early 60s and it was not unusual to beat ND, Oklahoma and other top programs.

I gotta go back to the Jim Crow Era to find NU success!

 

[Colonel Kong]

True but go back to the early 60s and it was not unusual to beat ND, Oklahoma and other top programs.

Yup, but a different world in many ways back then - relatively few black players for a start.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

I gotta go back to the Jim Crow Era to find NU success!

Sustained success, yes. The de-emphasis lasted for a long time. There was a perception that athletics was out of control.

You do realize that we fired Parseghian? His contract wasn't renewed by AD Holcomb, who may have had professional jealousy having been Purdue's head coach prior to the NU AD job.

We allegedly had a lot of alcoholics running the school. One died and the next one decided athletics cheapened NU. Underfunded to begin with, the football and basketball coaches crapped their pants when funds were REDUCED. A relatively successful hoops coach (for NU standards) quit and it took another few years but Agase left for Purdue.

Anyway... It took a long time to get back to competitive play, and awash with money now, this is exactly the wrong time period to be losing to WMU, NIU, New Hampshire. It should not be acceptable to a landlocked Big Ten school that is building a football palace on its prime real estate!

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Yup, but a different world in many ways back then - relatively few black players for a start.

We did have an advantage there being near Chicago and in the North and had a number of great black players like Burton, the Kimbrough brothers, Jerry Brown, Irv Cross, but we still had the worst facilities in the conference. We did, however, have some of the best coaching.

Now that we have so much revenue and new facilities under construction, we need to return to the days of having the best coaching. Fitzgerald is 1-11 vs. OSU and Michigan and 4-11 against PSU and MSU. Either he gets better on game day or he hires better assistants but the excuses are running out!

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Sustained success, yes. The de-emphasis lasted for a long time. There was a perception that athletics was out of control.

You do realize that we fired Parseghian? His contract wasn't renewed by AD Holcomb, who may have had professional jealousy having been Purdue's head coach prior to the NU AD job.

We allegedly had a lot of alcoholics running the school. One died and the next one decided athletics cheapened NU. Underfunded to begin with, the football and basketball coaches lost their shit. Relatively successful hoops coach quit and it took another few years but Agase left for Purdue.

Anyway... It took a long time to get back to competitive play, and awash with money now, this is exactly the wrong time period to be losing to WMU, NIU, New Hampshire. It should not be acceptable to a landlocked Big Ten school that is building a football palace on its prime real estate!

Good thing it isn't viewed as acceptable by Fitz (and others):

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Good thing it isn't viewed as acceptable by Fitz (and others):

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What else is Pat going to say? Justin was the only one who truly looked pissed. Not coincidentally he is the only one who played or coached with passion. I was shocked by how little emotion Pat had on the sideline.

 

[Fitz51]

What else is Pat going to say? Justin was the only one who truly looked pissed. Not coincidentally he is the only one who played or coached with passion. I was shocked by how little emotion Pat had on the sideline.

Right. It's just coachspeak. It's not indicative of him or any other coach being a good coach.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

You have 10 years of prior performance/execution. Please explain to me how that is not a sufficient basis to state what I did and 5 people at my tailgate after the game said. This is not a new opinion or thought.

I get that, except you weren't arguing this point prior to the beginning of season (if you did, my apologies). Otherwise it seems like you are overreacting (how it comes across to me) or just waiting for Fitz and Co. to throw in a clunker to jump on them. Once again, I apologize is I am misrepresenting your thoughts.



All I was trying to convey was that WMU is a very good team (some people are coming across as ignorant of the MAC and its' history of staying close/beating BIG schools) and that maybe we shouldn't go overboard on the players or staff after a single loss. Perhaps we can wait until the team gets through a game or two in BIG play before we rush to judgment on the future prospects of the program?

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Does anyone remember last year's game in Columbus against a MAC team not named Bowling Green?

NIU gave OSU 60 minutes.

Northwestern-Western Michigan were basically the #42 and #43 teams in College Football, when you take a look at Stassen.com's preseason polls and rankings.

Ugly loss, but WMU is likely one of the better Group of 5 schools in 2016.

THANK YOU.

FWIW, Western Michigan hung in with the Buckeyes for a bit in Columbus last year as well.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

The argument (which by the way was a retort to somebody else's point) is this: people are saying that WMU is good and that they will get into a G5 bowl and all sorts of nonsense to justify us losing to a rather mediocre football team.

Since you are referring to me here:

I never said WMU WOULD get the mid major bid, but COULD if they run the table. NU was their toughest test on paper.

My guess is you aren't very familiar with the MAC.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

The final score showed that Fleck had his team ready to play and Fitzgerald did not. Also if Fleck is killing NU in recruiting then that's on Fitz also. OK, maybe this was a good Mac team but not a good Power 5 conference team. But NU will now have a tough time getting to 6 & 6 and a bowl invitation, especially with Duke coming in in a couple of weeks, followed by Nebraska. From the Chicago front pages of their sport sections, it looks like Illinois might go undefeated as well.

Fleck has had the top ranked recruiting classes in the MAC for the last three years, Willy. So yes he's killing it a that on that level.

Where did I compare NU to WMU on the recruiting trail? I did say this though:

"...Fleck's team has athletes (he's killing it in recruiting), experience, and solid coaching..."

Reading comprehension my man.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Since you are referring to me here:

I never said WMU WOULD get the mid major bid, but COULD if they run the table. NU was their toughest test on paper.

My guess is you aren't very familiar with the MAC.

The history of the MAC is that Big Ten ought to beat them. Occasionally you'll get an upset but a Big Ten team should not lose to a MAC team at home coming off a 10 win season.

As good as WMU is, they did not impress me. We screwed up multiple chances to win the game. They doubled our TOP and won by 1 point on the strength of two controversial calls.

I see Illinois beating them.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Fleck has had the top ranked recruiting classes in the MAC for the last three years, Willy. So yes he's killing it a that on that level.

Where did I compare NU to WMU on the recruiting trail? I did say this though:

"...Fleck's team has athletes (he's killing it in recruiting), experience, and solid coaching..."

Reading comprehension my man.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't their recent recruiting classes typical of an NU class: a lot of three star talent? This is a far cry from Akron or Miami or Kent.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

What else is Pat going to say? Justin was the only one who truly looked pissed. Not coincidentally he is the only one who played or coached with passion. I was shocked by how little emotion Pat had on the sideline.

So now it matters is a coach/player "looks" pissed? You're being ridiculous.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't their recent recruiting classes typical of an NU class: a lot of three star talent? This is a far cry from Akron or Miami or Kent.

I think all of us would agree that NU has better talent than WMU, but to your point, I tend to think it's not as wide a gap as many might think.

It's important to remember all 3*s are not created equal. I think the offer list is often more helpful than the ratings.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

So now it matters is a coach/player "looks" pissed? You're being ridiculous.

There's nothing wrong with showing a little passion. And there's nothing 'ridiculous' about crediting a player or coach for openly taking a loss hard.

Pat is usually very animated on the sideline but he wasn't on Saturday. I took it to mean that he wasn't really surprised by the defense.

Oh and by the way, this is the second time in three years that you totally and embarrassingly crapped the bed. Remember when you said NIU had no chance against us? We lost. Now WMU. I guess those predictions by you were 'ridiculous.'

 

[willycat]

Fleck has had the top ranked recruiting classes in the MAC for the last three years, Willy. So yes he's killing it a that on that level.

Where did I compare NU to WMU on the recruiting trail? I did say this though:

"...Fleck's team has athletes (he's killing it in recruiting), experience, and solid coaching..."

Reading comprehension my man.

So your saying that Fleck is killing it in recruiting on a MAC level? Then why don't you say that. He has experience, really. How long has he been a HC? Ok, where do you think his W. Michigan team would finish in the Big Ten? If you say anywhere above the lower tier. then it's you who doesn't know the MAC.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

The history of the MAC is that Big Ten ought to beat them. Occasionally you'll get an upset but a Big Ten team should not lose to a MAC team at home coming off a 10 win season.

As good as WMU is, they did not impress me. We screwed up multiple chances to win the game. They doubled our TOP and won by 1 point on the strength of two controversial calls.

I see Illinois beating them.

The history of the MAC is that Big Ten ought to beat them. Occasionally you'll get an upset but a Big Ten team should not lose to a MAC team at home coming off a 10 win season.

As good as WMU is, they did not impress me. We screwed up multiple chances to win the game. They doubled our TOP and won by 1 point on the strength of two controversial calls.

I see Illinois beating them.

Just off the top of my head, the MAC has beaten the following BIG (they've beaten other P5 schools too) program in the past 10 years:

Illinois
Iowa
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Northwestern
Purdue
Rutgers

It's an annual thing.

 

[pawildcat]

True but go back to the early 60s and it was not unusual to beat ND, Oklahoma and other top programs.

A lot of teams were beating Notre Dame back then. It was one of the worst eras in Irish history. That's one reason they hired Ara.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

So your saying that Fleck is killing it in recruiting on a MAC level? Then why don't you say that. He has experience, really. How long has he been a HC? Ok, where do you think his W. Michigan team would finish in the Big Ten? If you say anywhere above the lower tier. then it's you who doesn't know the MAC.

Sure thing Willy.

Maybe try paying attention to the broadcast next time...

 

[pawildcat]

The history of the MAC is that Big Ten ought to beat them. Occasionally you'll get an upset but a Big Ten team should not lose to a MAC team at home coming off a 10 win season.

As good as WMU is, they did not impress me. We screwed up multiple chances to win the game. They doubled our TOP and won by 1 point on the strength of two controversial calls.

I see Illinois beating them.

Well, the MAC has now been pulling off those occasional upsets for 11 straight seasons.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

I think all of us would agree that NU has better talent than WMU, but to your point, I tend to think it's not as wide a gap as many might think.

It's important to remember all 3*s are not created equal. I think the offer list is often more helpful than the ratings.

I think their starting 11s belonged on the field with us. They don't have the depth that we do but in the opening game when both teams are generally healthy our depth didn't shine through.
If we had played them in week 4 or 5 after a few of their starters are out or banged up, we probably win going away just based on that depth disparity.

 

[willycat]

Just off the top of my head the MAC has beaten the following BIG (they've beaten other P5 schools too) schools in the past 10 years:

Illinois
Iowa
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Northwestern
Purdue
Rutgers

Comparing apples to oranges. Ok, they are both fruits but you seem to think it's great that a Mac school beats a Big Ten program, once every four or five years.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

I think their starting 11s belonged on the field with us. They don't have the depth that we do but in the opening game when both teams are generally healthy our depth didn't shine through.
If we had played them in week 4 or 5 after a few of their starters are out or banged up, we probably win going away just based on that depth disparity.

I agree.