Nance

[haywood jahblowme]

I thought Nance had his best game of the year.

He was active inside pulling down 7 rebounds. he was actively defensively and showed great body language and emotion, and while i don't love his offensive game he at least played with confidence. unfortunately no one else played anywhere near a good game

 

[NURoseBowl]

I thought Nance had his best game of the year.

He was active inside pulling down 7 rebounds. he was actively defensively and showed great body language and emotion, and while i don't love his offensive game he at least played with confidence. unfortunately no one else played anywhere near a good game

Yep, I'd buy this.

 

[Cat Fan in Buckeye Land]

He looked like he was just playing today, and not thinking about everything he was trying to do out there today. Definitely as good as he’s played in a while.

 

[Catfanincolo]

Definitely his most confident game of the season. Hope he builds on this the rest of the season.

 

[Titanium999]

I thought Nance had his best game of the year.

He was active inside pulling down 7 rebounds. he was actively defensively and showed great body language and emotion, and while i don't love his offensive game he at least played with confidence. unfortunately no one else played anywhere near a good game

Agreed! We are a young team that needs depth!

 

[Hans]

H

I thought Nance had his best game of the year.

He was active inside pulling down 7 rebounds. he was actively defensively and showed great body language and emotion, and while i don't love his offensive game he at least played with confidence. unfortunately no one else played anywhere near a good game

He also had a couple boards ripped away from him. All of his shots were fade aways. They were falling in that game but I didn't see anything new / more assertive than before. I think he comes off the bench next year.

 

[NURoseBowl]

H


He also had a couple boards ripped away from him. All of his shots were fade aways. They were falling in that game but I didn't see anything new / more assertive than before. I think he comes off the bench next year.

Who knows, Hans? But if he IS turning a corner, next year gets even more interesting.

 

[go cats go]

He also had a couple boards ripped away from him. All of his shots were fade aways. They were falling in that game but I didn't see anything new / more assertive than before. I think he comes off the bench next year.

I didn't want to be the one to say it when Nance finally had a nice game and saw shots finally fall. But, you're right: most of Nance's shots were going away from the basket. It's definitely something he'll need to work on.

 

[GatoLouco]

Hans said:

↑



He also had a couple boards ripped away from him. All of his shots were fade aways. They were falling in that game but I didn't see anything new / more assertive than before. I think he comes off the bench next year.

I didn't want to be the one to say it when Nance finally had a nice game and saw shots finally fall. But, you're right: most of Nance's shots were going away from the basket. It's definitely something he'll need to work on.
[/quote]
That’s pretty much my assessment. He took mostly low percentage shots. They went in, most times they won’t.

But I believe we are so much better on the defensive end with him. And there’s a game on both sides. He belongs in the starting 5.

 

[CatManTrue]

I didn't want to be the one to say it when Nance finally had a nice game and saw shots finally fall. But, you're right: most of Nance's shots were going away from the basket. It's definitely something he'll need to work on.

Definitely a step in the right direction. Hopefully it all comes together for him & the team the next two years.

 

[NUera]

I didn't want to be the one to say it when Nance finally had a nice game and saw shots finally fall. But, you're right: most of Nance's shots were going away from the basket. It's definitely something he'll need to work on.

That’s pretty much my assessment. He took mostly low percentage shots. They went in, most times they won’t.

But I believe we are so much better on the defensive end with him. And there’s a game on both sides. He belongs in the starting 5.[/QUOTE]

I don’t disagree. But I also saw him throw down a two-hand dunk instead of laying it up softly. He was clearly playing with some fire. Maybe that’s what’s been missing? Either way, it was good to see him channel his frustration.

 

[Sec.112]

At the Michigan game, a friend and I were discussing whether Nance can develop more into a Dennis Rodman-type - a rebounding machine and defensive stopper.

He has a bit of work to do on the defensive side of the ball to be labeled a "stopper." But I think this is a more realistic hope without completely waving the white flag on offense. Get a three as well as two or three putbacks each game, and that's gravy.

I missed yesterday's game, so I can't comment how that plays into this idea.

 

[go cats go]

At the Michigan game, a friend and I were discussing whether Nance can develop more into a Dennis Rodman-type - a rebounding machine and defensive stopper.

He has a bit of work to do on the defensive side of the ball to be labeled a "stopper." But I think this is a more realistic hope without completely waving the white flag on offense. Get a three as well as two or three putbacks each game, and that's gravy.

I missed yesterday's game, so I can't comment how that plays into this idea.

Can one develop into a Dennis Rodman-type? Some guys just seem to have an innate nose for the ball and "get the ball at all costs" effort built into their DNA.

 

[phatcat]

At the Michigan game, a friend and I were discussing whether Nance can develop more into a Dennis Rodman-type - a rebounding machine and defensive stopper.

He has a bit of work to do on the defensive side of the ball to be labeled a "stopper." But I think this is a more realistic hope without completely waving the white flag on offense. Get a three as well as two or three putbacks each game, and that's gravy.

I missed yesterday's game, so I can't comment how that plays into this idea.

Pardon my ignorance - do you mean it will be ok if he ends up developing to the point where he is averaging about 9 points a game?

 

[Sec.112]

Pardon my ignorance - do you mean it will be ok if he ends up developing to the point where he is averaging about 9 points a game?

My question has nothing to do with expectations and whether something will be ok. It's the reality of the situation and what could make him most productive.

He's not much of a difference maker and doesn't give you spit on either end of the floor right now. He's "a guy."

But you can see a nice - not great - rebounder at this point. Could he be more valuable if he was positioned/concentrated more on rebounding, defense, better decision-making and a basket here and there? Is this the kind of role where he can make a difference?

For instance, you can count of him two lost possessions in one minute every game. First, the bad shot that he understands is bad. Then, the dopey foul on the defensive end when he tries to make up for the bad shot.

A stable player that doesn't make these types of Basketball 101 mistakes would be a step up.

 

[Hans]

I’m not seeing the defensive improvement although admittedly I may not have been paying enough attention. I would absolutely love it if he could develop into half the rebounder Rodman was but i don’t see him as that type of player.
I have noticed that he is a crafty passer and as noted he is trying to be more assertive. Again my point was that nearly all of his shots were fade away, hooks or deep 2s...the kind opposing defenses will give you all night and for good reason. I don’t want to pick on the guy any more than I already have and I certainly hope I’m wrong and it starts “clicking”. Stranger things have happened than a player making a jump junior season but if I’m betting right now I’m putting my money on Jones and Beran to take more minutes away

 

[Sec.112]

I’m not seeing the defensive improvement ...

Don't get me wrong. The conversation was simply trying to find the best of Nance, and I'm not sure it's on the offensive side of the ball.

I'm not seeing a stunning defensive player either. My personal argument against my position is demonstrated in one play versus Michigan. Nance jumped to contest a shot on a mediocre shot fake where the ball never went above the Michigan player's waist.

But he can rebound a bit, and he's a bit of a shot-blocking presence.

 

[hdhntr1]

Pardon my ignorance - do you mean it will be ok if he ends up developing to the point where he is averaging about 9 points a game?

Points per game scored is not everything. 9-10pts, 10 RB,2 blocks, 2 steals and 3 assists per game and solid D and I think we would be pretty OK with it

 

[NJCat]

Points per game scored is not everything. 9-10pts, 10 RB,2 blocks, 2 steals and 3 assists per game and solid D and I think we would be pretty OK with it

Pete needs to get the "I'm a beast" talk Collins gave to Alex Olah....

Soon after Olah expressed his desire to Collins, he once again stepped into his head coach’s office after a workout. This time, it was Collins who had a message for his starting center. It went something like this:

"Olah, every time you wake up in the morning, I want you to look in the mirror and tell yourself, ‘I’m a beast.’"

https://www.insidenu.com/2014/5/22/...-self-proclaimed-celebrity-the-transformation

 

[EagerFan]

Points per game scored is not everything. 9-10pts, 10 RB,2 blocks, 2 steals and 3 assists per game and solid D and I think we would be pretty OK with it

I’d be thrilled to have that as my fourth guy on the floor.

 

[clarificationcat]

Pete needs to get the "I'm a beast" talk Collins gave to Alex Olah....

Soon after Olah expressed his desire to Collins, he once again stepped into his head coach’s office after a workout. This time, it was Collins who had a message for his starting center. It went something like this:

"Olah, every time you wake up in the morning, I want you to look in the mirror and tell yourself, ‘I’m a beast.’"

https://www.insidenu.com/2014/5/22/...-self-proclaimed-celebrity-the-transformation

Pete has had a disappointing year for sure. But I think he probably has more potential for growth than anyone on the team. He is the tallest guy on the team and came in thinking he was a stretch 4 or a point forward. He really could have used a redshirt year. He rarely got meaningful minutes last year and he mostly just hung out on the perimeter. He's not a good enough shooter or athlete to play either role well at this level and I think he's trying to transition to be much more of a post-player. It's not going to happen this year in a meaningful way. He needs to gain a lot more strength, particularly lower-body, so he can back people down and maintain his rebounding position. He is taller than almost everyone that guards him, often 4 or 5 inches. He needs to learn to square up when he shoots over people and not rush his shot. And for the most part, those shots needs to come from 15 feet and in. A fade-away is a fine shot for him, as long as he is within 5 to 8 feet of the basket. I think he can make 60% or more of those shots if he works on it during the summer and it would be almost impossible to defend. And he has to get more offensive rebounds, which I hope will come with more strength, and run the court more. Given his size advantage, he should be able to grab a couple of offensive rebounds a game and should be able to beat bigger player down the court. He's not a great defender but if he gets stronger, he is capable of guarding both wings and bigs and that's very valuable. He's probably not going to be a star, but he can be a very good B1G player that creates mismatches and fills up the stat sheet. I don't see our team making the tournament in the next couple of years if Pete is not a fairly big contributor.

 

[EagerFan]

It seems that Nance is tall enough and has enough hops that he should be able to make a living in the post drawing fouls on layups and bunnies.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

I thought today against minnesota he played well again. had some strong takes and a nice ally oop. good to see him continue to bring energy when it looked like no one else on the team did.

 

[GatoLouco]

He should have been back in the starting lineup a week ago.

 

[Sec.112]

He should have been back in the starting lineup a week ago.

I'm not a huge Nance fan, and I somewhat agree with this. Beran's not offering much out there right now.

Both Beran and Buie are not as aggressive as they were earlier in the year. They either hit that freshman wall REALLY hard, or both are still feeling those earlier injuries.

 

[GatoLouco]

I'm not a huge Nance fan, and I somewhat agree with this. Beran's not offering much out there right now.

Both Beran and Buie are not as aggressive as they were earlier in the year. They either hit that freshman wall REALLY hard, or both are still feeling those earlier injuries.

I'm somewhat stunned with how much worse we got on defense. And I think Nance's diminishing minutes have something to do with it. Height and long arms matter.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I'm somewhat stunned with how much worse we got on defense. And I think Nance's diminishing minutes have something to do with it. Height and long arms matter.

Thankfully missed yesterday’s game, but I would call Nance adequate on defense with the potential to be good. He still gets sealed off too easily and needs to get stronger to avoid getting moved out by wide asses.

My biggest concern for next year assuming all return is the defense. Gaines is the only guy that I will call Good on defense. Beran has a chance. Young as well. Kopp can be abused on that end of the court and he needs help when guarding a quicker player. Boo seems to get lost a few possessions a game. Nance is the key.

 

[GatoLouco]

I would call Nance adequate on defense with the potential to be good. He still gets sealed off too easily and needs to get stronger to avoid getting moved out by wide asses.

That's true. And he is prone to bonehead fouls.

But he is long and bothers people behind Young. And, for now, he is, imo, better than Beran.

 

[Sec.112]

... My biggest concern for next year assuming all return is the defense. Gaines is the only guy that I will call Good on defense. Beran has a chance. Young as well. Kopp can be abused on that end of the court and he needs help when guarding a quicker player. Boo seems to get lost a few possessions a game. Nance is the key.

I'm with ya on this one. As the play has diminished throughout the season, so has the defense - especially the defense down low. On several possessions each game, the Cats get killed within 2-3 passes because they are trying to over-compensate on the interior. I'm not sure there's anyone who can defend 1-on-1 against the slightest bit of talent down low.

The only way I'd agree with you that Beran can be good on defense is because he's young. Otherwise, I'm starting to think he's a pretty poor defender. He gets knocked out of position by a feather.

I hope Gaines availability next year will help some of the on-ball defense. Maybe that can protect the interior a bit?

Otherwise, I think you're on the money.

 

[go cats go]

I'm with ya on this one. As the play has diminished throughout the season, so has the defense - especially the defense down low. On several possessions each game, the Cats get killed within 2-3 passes because they are trying to over-compensate on the interior. I'm not sure there's anyone who can defend 1-on-1 against the slightest bit of talent down low.

The only way I'd agree with you that Beran can be good on defense is because he's young. Otherwise, I'm starting to think he's a pretty poor defender. He gets knocked out of position by a feather.

I hope Gaines availability next year will help some of the on-ball defense. Maybe that can protect the interior a bit?

Otherwise, I think you're on the money.

The defense overall has been a huge disappointment this season.

In CC's first season--even though we had a poor record and a bad offense--you could appreciate how hard the team played on defense. Per kenpom stats, the 'Cats jumped from 143rd in AdjD in Carmody's final season to 23rd(!) in Collins' first season. You could see CC's fingerprints and the "Pound The Rock" credo in the team, even in losses. This season, the team is 176th in AdjD. (Blechh!)

Some have tried to point to Penn State and Rutgers as proof that young teams are going to struggle..but then can suddenly turn the corner. I continue to have my doubts, in part, because the lack of effort, energy and execution on defense. While last year's Penn State team did indeed start the B1G season 1-10, they finished the season 27th overall in AdjD. Similarly, two seasons ago, Rutgers went 3-15 in conference...but finished the season 28th in AdjD. It's no wonder these teams turned it around. They played hard and were already quite strong on one side of the ball.

This season's Wildcats squad takes good care of the basketball and is pretty decent from the free throw line. What else good can you say? That we played well for portions of a few games? That we are tall and young? That we got to experience what it is like playing against some very good teams?

 

[willycat]

I'm with ya on this one. As the play has diminished throughout the season, so has the defense - especially the defense down low. On several possessions each game, the Cats get killed within 2-3 passes because they are trying to over-compensate on the interior. I'm not sure there's anyone who can defend 1-on-1 against the slightest bit of talent down low.

The only way I'd agree with you that Beran can be good on defense is because he's young. Otherwise, I'm starting to think he's a pretty poor defender. He gets knocked out of position by a feather.

I hope Gaines availability next year will help some of the on-ball defense. Maybe that can protect the interior a bit?

Otherwise, I think you're on the money.

Thinking if Nance can bulk up a bit he could man the 5 spot on defense. Young just doesn't have the strength or jumping ability to guard down low and don't think he ever will. Jones looks the part but fouls seem to keep him on the bench a lot. Unless they get a big time big man recruit, it looks like Nance is their best option.

 

[GatoLouco]

The defense overall has been a huge disappointment this season.

This season, the team is 176th in AdjD. (Blechh!)

Not sure KenPom can capture the absurd amount of zone we played. Imo, we actually were fairly competent, for a young team, in man to man defense.

Last two games, different story. Just giving up open looks after open looks.

 

[GatoLouco]

Young just doesn't have the strength or jumping ability to guard down low and don't think he ever will.

This board has been down on Young more than a prostitute in rush hour.

To some extent, understandable as that tends to be the case with kids lacking hops and mobility.

But he is more than a competent center for us. By the time he is an upper classman he will be as good as many we had and see as good. How was Olah in his first year? How about in his second?

 

[go cats go]

Not sure KenPom can capture the absurd amount of zone we played. Imo, we actually were fairly competent, for a young team, in man to man defense.

Last two games, different story. Just giving up open looks after open looks.

Zone or man-to-man, advanced statistics or not...opponents score on us a lot--and at a rate that far exceeds our own offensive production (except for occasional, brief stretches of unsustainable hot shooting here and there that get Haywood extremely excited.)

For once, I cannot comment on how our defense looked against Minnesota. For the first time this season, I didn't even bother watching. I recorded it, checked the score, groaned and moved on with my evening. Fortunately, I built watching the women's game on Saturday into my weekend plans! Go 'Cats!

 

[hdhntr1]

Thinking if Nance can bulk up a bit he could man the 5 spot on defense. Young just doesn't have the strength or jumping ability to guard down low and don't think he ever will. Jones looks the part but fouls seem to keep him on the bench a lot. Unless they get a big time big man recruit, it looks like Nance is their best option.

Young is a first year. He has shown a lot and I believe will be pretty solid. When you are close to 7 ft, really don't have to jump much and he doesn't get many of those cheap fouls that Jones with all his athleticism does. (I see Jones more as a PF)

 

[go cats go]

I see Jones more as a PF

Regardless of how you see Jones, Collins has played him exclusively at center this season. (Cappy can correct me on this, but I do not recall a single time that he and Young have been on the court at the same time. Possibly during an end-of-game fouling situation?) Perhaps Collins will play Jones in a different spot once Nicholson arrives next season?

Further, Collins doesn't really use a "Power Forward" in his offense--at least, he hasn't yet. Look at who has played the 4 for us: Nance/Beran, Law/Falzon, Falzon/Skelly, and almost exclusively Lumpkin during CC's first 4 seasons. Again, maybe this will change next season?

The closest thing to a PF we have seen under Collins was probably Skelly as a senior...but that was only after he had played center his first 3 seasons (and Lumpkin had graduated). Plus, even Skelly took a lot of 3s and played on the perimeter a lot that season.

 

[CappyNU]

Regardless of how you see Jones, Collins has played him exclusively at center this season. (Cappy can correct me on this, but I do not recall a single time that he and Young have been on the court at the same time. Possibly during an end-of-game fouling situation?) Perhaps Collins will play Jones in a different spot once Nicholson arrives next season?

If you blinked, you missed it. Jones has played with Young for 3:57 during conference play which came during the 3rd and 4th games this year.

1st Gopher game: Spencer-Greer-Kopp-Jones-Young, 1:17, 2-2 with 2 possessions for us and 1 for them
IU game: Spencer-Turner-Kopp-Jones-Young, 2:40 0-3 with 4 possessions for us and 5 for them.

 

[PurpleFaze]

nance needs to work on developing shooting touch from the 3-5’ range all summer. Too often he does well in setting up his shot and then misses very make-able little hooks or jumpers. If he could convert on 2-3 of those a game he’d likely be able to avg at least 10 pts a game, and his shooting % would rise.

 

[ricko654321]

This board has been down on Young more than a prostitute in rush hour.

To some extent, understandable as that tends to be the case with kids lacking hops and mobility.

But he is more than a competent center for us. By the time he is an upper classman he will be as good as many we had and see as good. How was Olah in his first year? How about in his second?

Young is better than Olah. Honestly I think Fr year Young is already better than Sr year Olah. Especially when you consider the competition of big men he has been matched up against in the B1G this year. Garza, Oturu, Cockburn, Watkins, J Smith, Tillman and that’s just scratching the surface.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Young is better than Olah. Honestly I think Fr year Young is already better than Sr year Olah. Especially when you consider the competition of big men he has been matched up against in the B1G this year. Garza, Oturu, Cockburn, Watkins, J Smith, Tillman and that’s just scratching the surface.

Young is a very pleasant surprise!