Stupid idea. But interesting.

[NUCat320]

Caution: this post may make you dumber.

I believe WR to be the weakest position group on the roster.

The board believes that Thorson is, like, Marcus Mariota or something.

I believe that former/moonlighting QBs on the field is a good thing.

There's a three way competition for the QB spot, with two mobile guys and a stationary guy.

Thorson is younger than Alviti.

Let's say Thorson wins the job. At some point, could Alviti slide to the slot as a way to get on the field? He seems elusive and athletic and a team-first guy.

I wouldn't see this as a three-year position change, but as a chance to get the best 11 on the field. Players, formations, plays. Future Alviti could compete for the starting QB job, or be the backup and continue to moonlight.

I can't think of specific examples (except Persa on special teams, I guess), but I know "slot guy as a youngster, starting qb as a senior" is not unprecedented in major college football. Kansas had a guy for a time, when they were briefly good.

For what it's worth, I've never seen Thorson on a field, so I have no idea if his brand of athleticism could also work.
I think he's a bit bigger and, for whatever reason, moonlighting slot guy happens more than moonlighting split end. So, I don't think it works as well.

As I said, this is a wonderfully stupid idea, the kind that comes to you on a rainy "stuck inside" day in June.

 

[Deeringfish]

Caution: this post may make you dumber.

i believe WR to be the weakest position group on the roster.

The board believes the Thorson is, like, Marcus Mariota or something.

I believe that former/moonlighting QBs on the field is a good thing.

There's a three way competition for the QB spot with two mobile guys and a stationary guy.

Thorson is younger than Alviti.

Let's day Thorson wins the job. At some point, could Alviti slide to the slot as a way to get on the field? He seems elusive and athletic and a team-first guy.

I wouldn't see this as a three-year position change, but as a chance to get the best 11 on the field. Players, formations, plays. Future Alviti could compete for the starting QB job, or be the backup and continue to moonlight.

I can't think of specific examples (except Persa on special teams, I guess), but I know "slot guy as a youngster, starting qb as a senior" is not unprecedented.

For what it's worth, I've never seen Thorson on a field, so I have no idea if his brand of athleticism could also work.
I think he's a bit bigger and, for whatever reason, moonlighting slot guy happens more than moonlighting split end. So, I don't think it works as well.

As I said, this is a wonderfully stupid idea, the kind that comes to you on a rain "stuck inside" day in June.

It would give you some very interesting trick plays on a reverse. I think this is one of the ways a wildcat offense with two's works. Not so dumb if you can pull it off.

 

[EvanstonCat]

It would give you some very interesting trick plays on a reverse. I think this is one of the ways a wildcat offense with two's works. Not so dumb if you can pull it off.

This is not a stupid idea at all. I've been calling for this ever since the days of Kafka and Bacher. And especially when we had Colter and Siemian. Getting two athletes onto the field who can pass and run, at least one of whom is very good to elite with his legs and at least one who has an elite arm can open up things and revolutionalize the sport like we saw with the spread. Defenses will have to stay honest which opens up things considerably for the run. This is why trick plays like the halfback option work - however, it's a play that breaks down if the defense doesn't bite, and is subject to the risk of a running back who isn't the best thrower. Now ,what happens when you put a guy on the field next to the QB who is equally deadly with his arm as his legs. That means on any given play, the defense must not commit to the run even after the pitch, lest you open up an opportunity for a homerun downfield.

When you pitch the ball to an Alviti, can the safeties possibly commit to the run? Is Thornson (who played WR also in HS) completely out of the play after the pitch, or does he head to the opposite side of the field or downfield to draw a defender or offer another big and uncovered receiving threat? You would open up spacing all over the filed, horizontally and vertically. This is actually a throwback to the days of the leather helmets, when the half back would be just as likely to pass the ball. It wasn't until players like Otto Graham showed up that had elite arms that the game shifted to a specialized quarterback - because going through the air could be far more explosive and an offense that had a balance of ground and air attacks became the norm. But, that was when u didn't have the athletes that you have today that could do both at an elite level. So instead of the occasional trickeration, this becomes less of a gamble on catching the defense offguard, but you have an opportunity on every play to catch them or otherwise keep them off edge and hesitant, opening up the run and giving you space to make a big play or at least get an extra 3-4 yards.

Today, and for the past 7 decades or so, defenses at every level have been designed to contain a single quarterback threat - they shifted to smaller and quicker linebackers and DE's would could drop back in coverage to deal with the passing threats of the spread most recently. But, they still are not equipped to handle a dynamic offense predicated on multiple pass and run threats on every play. We would be so difficult to prepare for. Defenders would have their world overturned, the instincts developed over years of football training becoming obsolesced overnight. It would be 2000 all over again.

 

[shakes3858]

Caution: this post may make you dumber.

I believe WR to be the weakest position group on the roster.

The board believes that Thorson is, like, Marcus Mariota or something.

I believe that former/moonlighting QBs on the field is a good thing.

There's a three way competition for the QB spot, with two mobile guys and a stationary guy.

Thorson is younger than Alviti.

Let's say Thorson wins the job. At some point, could Alviti slide to the slot as a way to get on the field? He seems elusive and athletic and a team-first guy.

I wouldn't see this as a three-year position change, but as a chance to get the best 11 on the field. Players, formations, plays. Future Alviti could compete for the starting QB job, or be the backup and continue to moonlight.

I can't think of specific examples (except Persa on special teams, I guess), but I know "slot guy as a youngster, starting qb as a senior" is not unprecedented in major college football. Kansas had a guy for a time, when they were briefly good.

For what it's worth, I've never seen Thorson on a field, so I have no idea if his brand of athleticism could also work.
I think he's a bit bigger and, for whatever reason, moonlighting slot guy happens more than moonlighting split end. So, I don't think it works as well.

As I said, this is a wonderfully stupid idea, the kind that comes to you on a rainy "stuck inside" day in June.

The issue is that your making the assumption that Alviti would be an upgrade at slot. I have no idea but i doubt that is true even if our WRs have struggled. Additionally, you risk an injury to your back up QB playing him in a position where he's unprotected.

Don't know why some people, Ecat, are so enamored by trick plays. Sometimes they work spectacularly, the other 98% of the time, they fail miserably. Get good at something and run it all day long... Not a trick, not a gimmick, just straight up football.


It's not unheard of though. Awhile back, Kentucky had a great athlete that was their best QB. Their 2nd best player on offense was a younger QB Andre Woodson who spent a year or two in the NFL. Their starting QB also lined up at RB and WR when Woodson was playing QB. I remember watching one play where Woodson didn't know what to do with the ball and was locked into the starter even though he was in double coverage. The starter pointed to the outside and Woodson delivered the ball for the first down. It also happened with Denard Robinson moving to RB when he came back from injury his senior year

 

[Deeringfish]

I agree with you Shakes about the injury factor but if if if if it means getting your best players on the field you play to win and if it is a part of your regular offense , I't not a trick play, its a strategic plan.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I agree with you Shakes about the injury factor but if if if if it means getting your best players on the field you play to win and if it is a part of your regular offense , I't not a trick play, its a strategic plan.

Alviti is a good athlete, but not the same caliber athlete as Colter. More importantly, I don't think he's the same caliber of pure athlete as guys like Vault, Nagel, or the other guys likely to man the slot for the 2015 team.

 

[EvanstonCat]

The issue is that your making the assumption that Alviti would be an upgrade at slot. I have no idea but i doubt that is true even if our WRs have struggled. Additionally, you risk an injury to your back up QB playing him in a position where he's unprotected.

Don't know why some people, Ecat, are so enamored by trick plays. Sometimes they work spectacularly, the other 98% of the time, they fail miserably. Get good at something and run it all day long... Not a trick, not a gimmick, just straight up football.


It's not unheard of though. Awhile back, Kentucky had a great athlete that was their best QB. Their 2nd best player on offense was a younger QB Andre Woodson who spent a year or two in the NFL. Their starting QB also lined up at RB and WR when Woodson was playing QB. I remember watching one play where Woodson didn't know what to do with the ball and was locked into the starter even though he was in double coverage. The starter pointed to the outside and Woodson delivered the ball for the first down. It also happened with Denard Robinson moving to RB when he came back from injury his senior year

Shakes, you are missing my point. I'm talking about getting two athletes onto the field regularly as a part of the system so that it is NOT a trick play. Trick plays fail because they aren't practiced and learned with rote repetition. The forward pass at one point was considered a trick play. The spread formation was considered a gimmick. If we devise a system where we are going two QB's on the field at once and practice it incessantly, then the plays we run with it don't fail 98% of the time. They will work. Get good at something and run it all day long. That is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[EvanstonCat]

The issue is that your making the assumption that Alviti would be an upgrade at slot. I have no idea but i doubt that is true even if our WRs have struggled. Additionally, you risk an injury to your back up QB playing him in a position where he's unprotected.

Don't know why some people, Ecat, are so enamored by trick plays. Sometimes they work spectacularly, the other 98% of the time, they fail miserably. Get good at something and run it all day long... Not a trick, not a gimmick, just straight up football.


It's not unheard of though. Awhile back, Kentucky had a great athlete that was their best QB. Their 2nd best player on offense was a younger QB Andre Woodson who spent a year or two in the NFL. Their starting QB also lined up at RB and WR when Woodson was playing QB. I remember watching one play where Woodson didn't know what to do with the ball and was locked into the starter even though he was in double coverage. The starter pointed to the outside and Woodson delivered the ball for the first down. It also happened with Denard Robinson moving to RB when he came back from injury his senior year

Shakes, you are missing my point. I'm talking about getting two athletes onto the field regularly as a part of the system so that it is NOT a trick play. Trick plays fail because they aren't practiced and learned with rote repetition. The forward pass at one point was considered a trick play. The spread formation was considered a gimmick. If we devise a system where we are going two QB's on the field at once and practice it incessantly, then the plays we run with it don't fail 98% of the time. They will work. Get good at something and run it all day long. That is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[willycat]

Caution: this post may make you dumber.

I believe WR to be the weakest position group on the roster.

The board believes that Thorson is, like, Marcus Mariota or something.

I believe that former/moonlighting QBs on the field is a good thing.

There's a three way competition for the QB spot, with two mobile guys and a stationary guy.

Thorson is younger than Alviti.

Let's say Thorson wins the job. At some point, could Alviti slide to the slot as a way to get on the field? He seems elusive and athletic and a team-first guy.

I wouldn't see this as a three-year position change, but as a chance to get the best 11 on the field. Players, formations, plays. Future Alviti could compete for the starting QB job, or be the backup and continue to moonlight.

I can't think of specific examples (except Persa on special teams, I guess), but I know "slot guy as a youngster, starting qb as a senior" is not unprecedented in major college football. Kansas had a guy for a time, when they were briefly good.

For what it's worth, I've never seen Thorson on a field, so I have no idea if his brand of athleticism could also work.
I think he's a bit bigger and, for whatever reason, moonlighting slot guy happens more than moonlighting split end. So, I don't think it works as well.

As I said, this is a wonderfully stupid idea, the kind that comes to you on a rainy "stuck inside" day in June.

Pretty wise actually. I have been wondering what other position Alviti might be able to play. He probably is not as fast as Colter but he is taller.

 

[EvanstonCat]

The issue is that your making the assumption that Alviti would be an upgrade at slot. I have no idea but i doubt that is true even if our WRs have struggled. Additionally, you risk an injury to your back up QB playing him in a position where he's unprotected.

Don't know why some people, Ecat, are so enamored by trick plays. Sometimes they work spectacularly, the other 98% of the time, they fail miserably. Get good at something and run it all day long... Not a trick, not a gimmick, just straight up football.


It's not unheard of though. Awhile back, Kentucky had a great athlete that was their best QB. Their 2nd best player on offense was a younger QB Andre Woodson who spent a year or two in the NFL. Their starting QB also lined up at RB and WR when Woodson was playing QB. I remember watching one play where Woodson didn't know what to do with the ball and was locked into the starter even though he was in double coverage. The starter pointed to the outside and Woodson delivered the ball for the first down. It also happened with Denard Robinson moving to RB when he came back from injury his senior year

Shakes, you are missing my point. I'm talking about getting two athletes onto the field regularly as a part of the system so that it is NOT a trick play. Trick plays fail because they aren't practiced and learned with rote repetition. The forward pass at one point was considered a trick play. The spread formation was considered a gimmick. If we devise a system where we are going two QB's on the field at once and practice it incessantly, then the plays we run with it don't fail 98% of the time. They will work. Get good at something and run it all day long. That is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Pretty wise actually. I have been wondering what other position Alviti might be able to play. He probably is not as fast as Colter but he is taller.

I don't think Alviti at 5-11 5/8 would be much different from Colter playing at 5-10 1/2.

 

[NUCat320]

Alviti is a good athlete, but not the same caliber athlete as Colter. More importantly, I don't think he's the same caliber of pure athlete as guys like Vault, Nagel, or the other guys likely to man the slot for the 2015 team.

To be clear, I'm not thinking full time WR or 'trick play reverse guy'. I'm thinking that he's a guy with three years in the system who knows every element of the offense and who has shown some athletic potential to make plays. Basically, a rotation guy who gets, what, 6-10 plays a game and might get targeted once. The 'also a QB' part obviously adds deception or potential for deception, but I'm mostly thinking of him as part of the 7-10 guys who typically get a chance to line up outside for NU every game.

 

[phatcat]

Don't know why some people, Ecat, are so enamored by trick plays. Sometimes they work spectacularly, the other 98% of the time, they fail miserably.

I disagree with this. First, trick plays do work and work well, just not for us. They work quite well against us. Ask Dantonio. Also, your 98% statement, while obviously hyperbolic, is just wrong. Like you said, practice something and get good at it. So, practice the 'trick play' and get good at it.

Finally, the idea that this IS a trick play (other than that throwback option) is just not true. Colter proved to be a solid wide receiver. Not sure if Alviti is the guy - the hypothesis was that he might be given our depth, but having him out there gives you flexibility and (presumably or he wouldn't be out there) some extra talent at receiver. And the idea that he can throw and throw it like a QB would surely give the defense something to worry about.

Compare this to the much ballyhooed "wildcat", where 95% of the time they are just going to run the ball and everyone knows it. This is, inexplicably, effective at times.

Alviti hasn't shown, to me anyway, that he is in the class of Colter yet. But, hey, we are starting at our third straight losing season. I'm willing to try some things.

 

[hdhntr1]

I agree with you Shakes about the injury factor but if if if if it means getting your best players on the field you play to win and if it is a part of your regular offense , I't not a trick play, its a strategic plan.

It depends on how many QBs and level you have in the system. If only one, probably not a good idea. If two ready to come in, probably OK. For a number of years, we have not had a full roster of QBs because of misses in certain years. Recently we have been getting one per year and that puts us in a position to make one a WR at some point. Not sure if this is the year depending on who is number one and who is number two.

 

[Noah121]

Shakes, you are missing my point. I'm talking about getting two athletes onto the field regularly as a part of the system so that it is NOT a trick play. Trick plays fail because they aren't practiced and learned with rote repetition. The forward pass at one point was considered a trick play. The spread formation was considered a gimmick. If we devise a system where we are going two QB's on the field at once and practice it incessantly, then the plays we run with it don't fail 98% of the time. They will work. Get good at something and run it all day long. That is exactly what I'm talking about.

Yay, you triple-posted!

I think the most important thing will be to have people get reps without getting injured again.