The new W-R - Evanston docs

[rwhitney014]

My curious and resourceful friend, who reads this board and asked for credit, pointed me towards these docs filed with the Evanston zoning board. They have some cool renderings I don't think we've seen on the board, and it confirms the seating capacity will be 6800 (though building capacity for fire code purposes will be 9870, ostensibly for concerts, graduations, and other events). Images on p. 2-20, with the interior rendering on 20, and some architectural details on the subsequent pages.

Also, I saw some of the exterior brick/stone piled up next to building when leaving after Selection Sunday. It looked nice and matches what's shown in here, of course.

Anyway, I'll let the board architects and interior designers slice and dice better than I can. All looks good.

Link: https://www.cityofevanston.org/home/showdocument?id=4100

 

[NJCat]

My curious and resourceful friend, who reads this board and asked for credit, pointed me towards these docs filed with the Evanston zoning board. They have some cool renderings I don't think we've seen on the board, and it confirms the seating capacity will be 6800 (though building capacity for fire code purposes will be 9870, ostensibly for concerts, graduations, and other events). Images on p. 2-20, with the interior rendering on 20, and some architectural details on the subsequent pages.

Also, I saw some of the exterior brick/stone piled up next to building when leaving after Selection Sunday. It looked nice and matches what's shown in here, of course.

Anyway, I'll let the board architects and interior designers slice and dice better than I can. All looks good.

Link: https://www.cityofevanston.org/home/showdocument?id=4100

So cool. Thanks for finding this.

One weird design item: The Men's BB locker room is adjacent to the visitors. Means the teams may exit the playing floor using the same door. Odd. Unless NU exits the same way as today and walk around the back of the arena.

 

[Sec.112]

Ugh, now the capacity is down to 6800.

I'm not saying there should be a 15,000-seat building. But 6800 is sooooooo limiting.

 

[NJCat]

Ugh, now the capacity is down to 6800.

I'm not saying there should be a 15,000-seat building. But 6800 is sooooooo limiting.

Yeah, it means 1,317 visitors won't get seats!

 

[Alan Smithee]

Yeah, it means 1,317 visitors won't get seats!

Or the turds who sell them to visitors make more money.

 

[Pete Purple]

Any guesses or rumors as to the required donation and new ticket prices in lower bowl?

 

[ubercat]

I predict it will be more than this year's prices.



Edit: I thought the footprint would extend more east- and westward, allowing for wider concourses.
Am I missing something?

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Ugh, now the capacity is down to 6800.

It seems the next smaller B1G arena would DOUBLE in capacity the renovated WRA. The largest would almost triple it.
Yes, NU's enrollment is tiny compared to most other B1G schools, but it's the only school within a huge metropolitan area, which should weigh even more when it comes to capacity planning for a sports venue.

 

[NJCat]

I predict it will be more than this year's prices.



Edit: I thought the footprint would extend more east- and westward, allowing for wider concourses.
Am I missing something?

The footprint is unchanged. They are reusing the building trusses.

 

[scru]

Edit: I thought the footprint would extend more east- and westward, allowing for wider concourses.
Am I missing something?

Isnt it widening? Isn't that the extensions out on each side shown on pages 15 and 16? Or are those already there?

 

[Max_Power]

This is so great. Thank you and your resourceful friend.

 

[Jonny2TheP]

Ugh, now the capacity is down to 6800.

I'm not saying there should be a 15,000-seat building. But 6800 is sooooooo limiting.

I get why a capacity of 6,800 may not excite some people, but I have zero issue with it. A small arena filled with mostly NU fans that are into the game is a huge home court advantage. Additionally, and despite the success this year I don't know how much this will change, we typically only fill about half of the arena for the majority of non-conference games.

And while the Big Ten may have bigger arenas, which is not always a good thing (see Penn State), we are far from the only school that has a smaller arena. Here is a list of other similar programs, some elite level programs, that have capacity under 10,000.

Duke: 9,300
Boston College: 8,600
Georgia Tech: 8,600
Notre Dame: 9,100
Miami (FL): 8,000
SMU- 7,000
Rhode Island: 7,600
Butler: 9,100
TCU- 8:500
Villanova: 6,500
Stanford: 7,300
Gonzaga: 6,000
St. Mary;s: 3,500


What do almost all of these schools have in common (along with us)? The vast majority of them are private universities with smaller enrollment and are in large metropolitan areas. We are far from alone in having a smaller arena when looking at basketball programs in similar situations. And I for one think it can be a real advantage in many ways. Now you add on the fact that are smaller arena will be state of the art and updated throughout, and I'm all in.

 

[julescat]

I love this as well. I am very interested in how the $$ part of it shakes out. Right now I 50:50 split with a partner the season for some nice lower bowl purple seats. Unfortunately, there is a price at which I will be priced out. Will be very interesting.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

The vast majority of them are private universities with smaller enrollment and are in large metropolitan areas.

None of them are in a metropolitan area with a population as large as Chicagoland, or close to (almost 10 MM). Atlanta is among the largest cited and its population is about 1/2 Chicagoland's. And 6,800 would still be near the bottom even of that list. It's a tiny seating capacity. Let's face it.

Presumably an improving BkB team would attract greater attendance. So, the capacity and the team performance are moving in opposite directions.

 

[Styre]

Chicago already has several monstrous basketball arenas. If we ever get to the point where the new capacity is regularly too small -- which may never happen -- we can schedule a few games a year at the United Center.

 

[NJCat]

I love this as well. I am very interested in how the $$ part of it shakes out. Right now I 50:50 split with a partner the season for some nice lower bowl purple seats. Unfortunately, there is a price at which I will be priced out. Will be very interesting.

I'm with you. Better too small than too big. Nice problem to have if NU hoops is a tough ticket.

 

[Bwm57]

But, I wonder if they would have designed it with a little larger capacity if they were doing it now compared to several years ago?

 

[PurpleHaze525]

But, I wonder if they would have designed it with a little larger capacity if they were doing it now compared to several years ago?

I doubt it. Someone (I think Phillips) said their two priorities were fan experience/comfort and noise level. This is probably just the number of seats they figured would allow them to maximize those two things within the confines of the existing space.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

I'm with you. Better too small than too big. Nice problem to have if NU hoops is a tough ticket.

Why to stop then at 6,800? If it's so good it could be further reduced maybe to 5K. You can always replace several seats for a single bigger more comfortable one (or use the space for something else). If reducing down to 5K is a good thing, why stop there?, Cut it down in half to only 2500. And so on. Where would the logic lead?

 

[NJCat]

Why to stop then at 6,800? If it's so good it could be further reduced maybe to 5K. You can always replace several seats for a single bigger more comfortable one (or use the space for something else). If reducing down to 5K is a good thing, why stop there?, Cut it down in half to only 2500. And so on. Where would the logic lead?

6,800 is the optimum. Goldilocks sized, not too big, not too small, just right!!

 

[WarCat]

Speaking of comfort, I'm not seeing anything in the way of more or larger rest rooms. That looks like it will remain a problem, even with the small decline in capacity.

 

[hoosboot]

Why to stop then at 6,800? If it's so good it could be further reduced maybe to 5K. You can always replace several seats for a single bigger more comfortable one (or use the space for something else). If reducing down to 5K is a good thing, why stop there?, Cut it down in half to only 2500. And so on. Where would the logic lead?

Why stop at 10,000? Why not 20,000? 30,000?

 

[Windy City Cat Fan]

Any guesses or rumors as to the required donation and new ticket prices in lower bowl?

I'm curious about this as well. I have an acquaintance who is a current STH who mentioned to me just this weekend that the ticket office sent him something about what sounded like a PSL in order to keep his tickets - I have no idea where his seats are but I assume they are good. He said he responded to the ticket office and gave them a piece of his mind - he's had these tickets for some time so obviously paid to watch some really bad basketball, not sitting good with him that now that the product is finally good they are looking for more money

 

[IdahoAlum]

I'm curious about this as well. I have an acquaintance who is a current STH who mentioned to me just this weekend that the ticket office sent him something about what sounded like a PSL in order to keep his tickets - I have no idea where his seats are but I assume they are good. He said he responded to the ticket office and gave them a piece of his mind - he's had these tickets for some time so obviously paid to watch some really bad basketball, not sitting good with him that now that the product is finally good they are looking for more money

Of course they're looking for more money -- this is college athletics, where the prices always go up -- and goes up more when you're winning. The smaller the arena, the greater the demand, the higher the price you can get. And nobody is going to get credit for watching 40 years of crappy basketball.

 

[NJCat]

Why stop at 10,000? Why not 20,000? 30,000?

He's just being contrary to stimulate conversation.

Any project with a finite budget has constraints. I suspect the design spec conversation went something like this:

1) Reuse the existing building footprint.
2) Use theater style chair-back seats throughout
3) Increase the number of restrooms and concession areas
4) Fit as many people as possible given 1)-3) above

The design team went to work and 6,800 popped out of the final design. From my experience as a Cats fan, this may be a little small, but as I said previously, better too small than too large.

 

[hoosboot]

He's just being contrary to stimulate conversation.

Any project with a finite budget has constraints. I suspect the design spec conversation went something like this:

1) Reuse the existing building footprint.
2) Use theater style chair-back seats throughout
3) Increase the number of restrooms and concession areas
4) Fit as many people as possible given 1)-3) above

The design team went to work and 6,800 popped out of the final design. From my experience as a Cats fan, this may be a little small, but as I said previously, better too small than too large.

Yeah, I know. I love the size and actually think they went into it with a small-ish number in mind given the constraints you listed and others. It will have an intimate fieldhouse feel with a distinct homecourt advantage instead of a giant mausoleum. Heck, UCLA, with all of its history and success, can't even consistently sell out their 13,000-person on-campus arena. I wonder...does Los Angeles have a substantial metropolitan area population to pull from?

 

[Pete Purple]

i know of 3 ticket reps leaving/left including mine. So I hope the next 2 seasons are able to be done in a fair and organized fashion. It's a high turnover job, but not the greatest timing.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Why to stop then at 6,800? If it's so good it could be further reduced maybe to 5K. You can always replace several seats for a single bigger more comfortable one (or use the space for something else). If reducing down to 5K is a good thing, why stop there?, Cut it down in half to only 2500. And so on. Where would the logic lead?

You're just trolling now, right?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Of course they're looking for more money -- this is college athletics, where the prices always go up -- and goes up more when you're winning. The smaller the arena, the greater the demand, the higher the price you can get. And nobody is going to get credit for watching 40 years of crappy basketball.

Welcome to modern college athletics. If you want nice things, you have to pay for them.

 

[D_C_B]

I'm curious about this as well. I have an acquaintance who is a current STH who mentioned to me just this weekend that the ticket office sent him something about what sounded like a PSL in order to keep his tickets - I have no idea where his seats are but I assume they are good. He said he responded to the ticket office and gave them a piece of his mind - he's had these tickets for some time so obviously paid to watch some really bad basketball, not sitting good with him that now that the product is finally good they are looking for more money

What do you expect: $100mm / 6800 seats = $14700+ per seat.

I'll leave the rest of the math to you because I stink at it.

 

[Styre]

Welcome to modern college athletics. If you want nice things, you have to pay for them.

Yep. Not to mention the fact that we've been getting away with highway robbery for decades by watching Big Ten basketball at Welsh-Ryan prices.

 

[Deeringfish]

None of them are in a metropolitan area with a population as large as Chicagoland, or close to (almost 10 MM). Atlanta is among the largest cited and its population is about 1/2 Chicagoland's. And 6,800 would still be near the bottom even of that list. It's a tiny seating capacity. Let's face it.

Presumably an improving BkB team would attract greater attendance. So, the capacity and the team performance are moving in opposite directions.

Unless you are an EL rider, Evanston is not easy to get to and the parking is terrible for football games. Most of that giant population of Chicago doesn't have a good idea of how to access games. IMO

 

[willycat]

Ugh, now the capacity is down to 6800.

I'm not saying there should be a 15,000-seat building. But 6800 is sooooooo limiting.

Ugh, now the capacity is down to 6800.

I'm not saying there should be a 15,000-seat building. But 6800 is sooooooo limiting.

At least two or three thousand less then a Big Ten School arena should seat. Hell they are getting into MAC size arenas, maybe smaller. Guess it will still be called a high school gym, for a good reason.

 

[willycat]

Unless you are an EL rider, Evanston is not easy to get to and the parking is terrible for football games. Most of that giant population of Chicago doesn't have a good idea of how to access games. IMO

Most of Chicagoans know how to take the EL. Guess, "build it and they will come" hasn't hit the Evanston campus.

 

[willycat]

T

But, I wonder if they would have designed it with a little larger capacity if they were doing it now compared to several years ago?

The reason that they should have torn it down and built a NEW W-R with a capacity of 10,000 or more, like the one DePaul has just built.

 

[hoosboot]

T

The reason that they should have torn it down and built a NEW W-R with a capacity of 10,000 or more, like the one DePaul has just built.

It will be awesome to go to DePaul games. With the 5,000 empty seats, you'll have plenty of room to store your coat and stash your nachos.

 

[Windy City Cat Fan]

Welcome to modern college athletics. If you want nice things, you have to pay for them.

There's a difference between psl's and raising ticket prices. I assume though NU has done the research and determined enough people would buy them to offset any lost tickets from people who are rubbed the wrong way by this. I'm not saying it's good or bad just mentioning my acquaintance wasn't thrilled with it

 

[Styre]

At least two or three thousand less then a Big Ten School arena should seat. Hell they are getting into MAC size arenas, maybe smaller. Guess it will still be called a high school gym, for a good reason.

This would be the 6th largest arena in the MAC, FWIW.

Most of Chicagoans know how to take the EL. Guess, "build it and they will come" hasn't hit the Evanston campus.

Unless you live pretty far up on the North Side, taking the L to NU games is hardly convenient. It's a long ride with a ton of stops and a transfer that usually involves standing around outside for a while, which isn't fun in January.

 

[clarificationcat]

This would be the 6th largest arena in the MAC, FWIW.



Unless you live pretty far up on the North Side, taking the L to NU games is hardly convenient. It's a long ride with a ton of stops and a transfer that usually involves standing around outside for a while, which isn't fun in January.

Amen to that. Whose up for an hour trip back home on the El at 10:00 p.m.?

Evanston is not convenient for anyone not living on the North Shore or on the north side of Chicago. Maybe we will actually develop a few new fans next year living in the Northwest suburbs that decide to see what all the excitement is about.

 

[thewildcat2011]

Amen to that. Whose up for an hour trip back home on the El at 10:00 p.m.?

Evanston is not convenient for anyone not living on the North Shore or on the north side of Chicago. Maybe we will actually develop a few new fans next year living in the Northwest suburbs that decide to see what all the excitement is about.

I've done it enough times from the Loop. Not convenient, but I do it for the 'Cats...hey maybe someone will sell me some purple seats soon! Doubt it.