As somebody who has done this before, I also thought the announcers consistently laying off for very very long periods of time during Shannon chants was too conspicuous to not have been on purpose.
“Warning” for tonight
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This is progress. How great is it that the fans are so ravenous that it scares the administration? Their protestations will only feed it - making W-R an even bigger house of horrors than it has become.
What has been alleged, if true, will probably ruin the life of the young woman. Trauma like that can impact someone for a long time.
We can't possibly normalize inserting body parts, any body parts, into a woman's body against her will. The law has to send a message and going on debating rape here seems to go against that idea.
My wife was telling me yesterday, as I brought her up to speed on Shannon, that she remembers at least 3 similar incidents, with friends of hers, at bars. She was telling me one where the girl was like "joke's on you morthfu****, I was driving all day, enjoy the fish". Women have been swallowing stuff like this for way too long. Enough.
I thought it was clear the announcers were told to not comment on it on air. That it was not their choice.
Saw plenty of gripes from Illini fans about the students about their treatment of Shannon. Misguided, regardless of the case. "No means no" isn't abusive or profane. As fodder for mocking another player? I'm not as comfortable with that. But he fought to play; university leadership hasn't appealed the order and says it will "monitor the case"; and Underwood put him on the floor.
This situation is hitting close to home for us (not a family member, thank God). My strong advice for any high-profile college athlete is to find yourself a steady (or steadies) and stay in the crib.
This situation is hitting close to home for us (not a family member, thank God). My strong advice for any high-profile college athlete is to find yourself a steady (or steadies) and stay in the crib.
So if the bar had a camera on him the entire time and this is clear cut nothing… why is the process continuing? Hmm. He allegedly stuck his fingers in a girl’s, you know, so yeah it’s not looking good for him.
Hopefully the truth will come out in front of an impartial and qualified judge, we'll get a result, and then maybe we'll find out what really happened.
Maybe he just wants to run for president someday.
I interpreted Berry's hard foul on Shannon as a personal statement. "I am sick of you, you a-hole" When's the last time Ty Berry did something like that? If you answer "never" you are correct. Very proud of Ty Berry for stepping up and doing what needed to be done.
I interpret Robbie Hummel's full-throated objection to that being a "flagrant" foul as a full-throated objection to Shannon being in the game. Especially when he added something about "he could have just blasted him in the face..."
I can interpret things however I see fit.
People probably didn't notice, but Shannon
a) didn't really drive to the basket after that foul - except when we allowed him a layup in overtime.
b) turned the ball over 3 times after that foul.
Read the charging documents, the location of the alleged incident isn’t on camera. Cameras can see her coming and going to the part of the room he was in and see him coming and going into that corner of the room as well, and can follow her leaving in distress. I’m sure this will get clarified in court, but what that sounds like is the we’re near the corner of a probably not that large underground bar area and the camera is oriented toward the door and the bar and they were close enough under it that it didn’t pick them up… of that the room they were in is larger and has multiple large alcoves that fit a bunch of people each and the only camera was out in the main room and can’t see into that alcove. So they were able to corroborate her coming and going and him being g nearby following her timeline, but they couldn’t corroborate their interaction.
Imagine if a guy got his finger up your ass. What kinda of penalty would you think appropriate? I think it starts with the loss of a finger, maybe a hand, perhaps the arm, could even support firing squad.
Whether it ruins her life or not - in a civilized society, his actions have no place. Let him live among the uncivilized - but most certainly to not allow him to join the financially elite.
Ty is a great guy so 100% could see him being “the hero” in that situation and doing what needed to be done. I never ever root for injuries and always cheer when opposing players get up after an injury but I stayed silent when TSJ did and I’m not sorry about it one bit.
Ty got run over by somebody in the first half and smacked his head on the floor.
I think it was Shannon.
Berry missed some time clearing the cobwebs, rubbing the back of his head on the bench.
So my guess is the hard foul Berry used as payback was the product of controlled anger, with a bit of leadership attached.
Guys play great when they are angry, but under control.
Pretty amazing how he has stepped up now that Audige is no longer the emotional leader.
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You should feel dumb, classless and cruel now, along with the fans in attendance chanting that night. With zero respect for the principle of innocent until proven guilty, your fans hurled the most hurtful kind of insults toward an innocent college kid based on an accusation that never had ANY evidence. Glad that for TSJ’s sake the fact that he had to wait several months to clear his name didn’t also cost him the rest of his college basketball career.
Your take is lame. Has nothing to do with "presumption of innocence."
Do you really have a problem with opposing fans chanting at an opposing player to try to get him rattled?
I thought the NU kids were too nice. The hard foul by Ty Berry on the accused was phenomenal.
Shannon shouldn't have been playing. Thats why people were upset.
Illinois sacrificed whatever integrity it had by allowing a guy to play while awaiting trial after he was arrested and charged with sexual assault. If he weren't a good player, Illinois would have suspended him. I assume you'll admit that.
Northwestern would have suspended him for the season.
Those facts don't change because of the verdict.
But nice try.
Your post shows how you have very limited knowledge of what happened.
Illinois had no choice but to play him after a federal judge ordered it. Innocent until proven guilty.
What facts are you talking about? There was NO evidence that TSJ ever touched this girl. Did you follow the case? Maybe you should go back and research it then come back and apologize for your stupidity.
To say "Illinois had no choice but to play him" is completely ridiculous.
The judge cannot force the coach to put a player in the game.
If you don't know that, I'm not sure why I am bothering with responding to you.
But since I already started, I'll keep going...
I wrote nothing about the validity of the case.
All I said is that Shannon, who was awaiting trial, should not have been playing basketball for Illinois and that the students had every right to chant stuff at him, as long as it wasn't obscene.
Ty Berry blasting him was exquisite. Every team should have done that to him - he just drops his head and tries to run over people. And it was deliberate and he got away with it. You put a stop to it by fouling him hard. Berry returning the physical play made Shannon curl up into a little ball. He can dish it out but can't take it. Not a shock.
Shannon was facing a serious charge - a felony.
If you want to pretend that it is "right" for a guy to be playing basketball for your school while awaiting, say, a murder trial, thats your business.
But respectable places, like Northwestern, would have suspended Shannon while he awaited his day in court.
He WAS suspended. Shannon was granted an injunction by a federal judge, on the ground that he was denied due process when Illinois suspended him without evidence or investigation. His claim was bolstered by the fact that he was a projected NBA lottery pick, and being forced to sit out his senior year would cause him financial harm. (Which, ultimately, would’ve been exactly what happened since he was just acquitted of his crime.) To clarify, the AD knew exactly what was going on. He had his own investigators on the scene when they were informed. He was told that this was a fabrication and that there appeared to be no evidence of a crime involving TSJ, including graduate assistants from the basketball program who chaperoned the trip and were there. (The GA even testified in court…). Whitman didn’t stick his neck out on blind faith. He didn’t appeal the decision and allowed him to play because he knew how this was going to end.
You are an obnoxious shitbag, but you actually do make a very correct point. This scenario wouldn’t happen at NW because nobody from that school is making credible claims about their NBA draft prospects.
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Not true. Illinois suspended him. A federal judge said they couldn’t suspend him because his presumption of innocence and how it would affect his future. Northwestern would have had to do the same thing or go against the law.
And now he is innocent. The judge admonished the DA for even bringing it to trial. His dna was not in the girl. DNA from other men was. He was in a public bar and the girl lied about so many things. He was innocent and she almost ruined his life.
Agree. When I read coverage of story, it was so obvious the prosecution should have never brought this case to trial. They had no case. TSJ should have never been put through that experience. Full stop.
The judge lifted the suspension but the coach did not have to play him. Dude was under indictment for a serious crime.
I am with the Illini fans on this issue. The presumption of innocence is a foundation of our legal system. He was suspended but Illinois had no option but to allow him to play after the judge's ruling.
My son's best friend was one of the "Duke Lacrosse 3"" who was falsely accused of rape. A corrupt prosecutor withheld evidence (multiple non-Duke semen samples retrieved from the alleged victim). He had competent defense attorneys and unlimited resources that were able to expose the DA's deceit. Despite complete vindication, including an apology from the state, he was later denied the rental of an apartment near Wharton because he was listed as a "sex offender". The manipulation of our judicial system should frighten everyone.
I knew from day one that the Duke allegations were false, and I assume there were many in the Illini family that knew the same about Shannon. I get no pleasure in trying to exploit another's troubles but Duke's students and administration hung the the "Duke 3 " out to dry and the latter paid a hefty price for their arrogant assumption of guilt.
Well, we did win the game so it wasn’t so dumb. I’m not going to feel sorry for the future millionaire. Anytime we can get under the skin of an Illini player is a good thing in my book.
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The validity of the case is not the issue. The victim looked at photos of people and identified Shannon. He was arrested and charged with a felony. Thats how it works - we are obligated to believe that the legal system brings such accusations responsibly and that you get your day in court to respond.
Illinois did the right thing and suspended Shannon.
Illinois fans went ballistic because he was an important player on their team..
If he were a scrub, no one would have said a word in Shannon's defense.
Some Illinois fans attacked the victim and her motives.
Shannon sued the university.
A judge ordered that Shannon be allowed to participate (overturned the suspension)
Under pressure from the fanbase, and to benefit himself, coach Brad Underwood immediately returned Shannon to the starting lineup. He had no obligation to do this, but willingly submitted his player to the derision of opposing fans.
Shannon's defense team possessed a video showing a man who resembled Shannon in the bar at the same time in the location described by the victim. This man had been accused of a similar sexual assault at the same bar two weeks prior. No charges were filed in that instance. The original judge did not allow the evidence. That seems idiotic, but in our system, the judge makes the decisions. When a new judge took the case, she admitted the video, which essentially exonerated Shannon.
No male DNA was found in the vaginal swabs. Thats not surprising given the nature of this sexual assault. Shannon's own court filings include "The claim that 'male DNA' was located on the underwear swabs is not scientifically valid and should be excluded.” Your statement above that "male DNA was found in her" is false and intended to further slander the victim.
I am pleased for Shannon that he was found "Not Guilty." Certainly he was aware of that all along and it sucks to be wrongly accused of any crime. But he shouldn't have been playing while awaiting trial for a felony.
Ultimately, the hero here is the victim. She had the courage to come forward and seek justice against the man who sexually assaulted her. She was subjected to a barrage of insults from idiots who sacrificed their integrity because they wanted their basketball team to win more games. In the end, her courage in coming forward should get the real criminal off the streets and save other women from the same type of attack.
As someone who has specifically defended your right to post things on this board, no matter how stupid or disgusting some of your comments make you look, I do find some irony in you calling me an "obnoxious shitbag."
Two reasons.
First, in my decades of intellectual discussions, game-playing and athletic competitions, the fundamental truth is that if somebody starts calling you names, they are essentially admitting that you have defeated them and its the last thing they can throw at you. In essence, you just knocked all the chess pieces flying, rather than concede, like a man. Thats ok. I can tell you're not an idiot, but there are other times (like now) when you come across as weak or childish. And I say that because I defend your right to post here, as long as you stay out of the gutter.
Second, this board is supposed to have a moderator / censor. He is supposed to patrol the board for profanity and personal attacks and delete offensive content. (His description, not mine) But his biases are mind-numbing. So when you launch a personal attack against me... nothing happens. You launch the same against him (or his buddies) and you get suspended. I know you have had fun with the local cop here in the past.
Like you, I'm not a fan of censorship. I police myself on the personal attacks and vulgarity, like most of the respectable people here. But when rules are made and applied based solely on the moderator's whims and personal feelings, everybody can see it for what it is.
And yet there's the saying about indicting a ham sandwich, so many do not, in fact, believe that. There's a much lower bar to clear for an indictment vs. a conviction.
What checks are there against an ambitious, rogue prosecutor?
Its very hard to take you seriously when you clearly do not understand the incident or the trial.
I eagerly await another one of your voluminous multi-paragraph posts proclaiming your unimpeachable intellect and analysis of a situation that you know nothing about.
She is not a hero but a money grubbing liar who almost ruined the life of an innocent man.
Yeah, dude this is a terrible take. She falsely accused someone of a heinous crime. She should suffer some significant consequences
I haven’t followed this all that closely, did the prosecution ever give an explanation for these texts?
Dude, he called me an "obnoxious shitbag" yesterday.
It sounds like you banned him for a week but left the post up?
Whats the point of that?
You edit/delete stuff all the time.
What are you talking about?
She was sexually assaulted and made a mistake in identifying the guy.
It isn't like she made up the incident. Shannon was there at the time the incident occurred.
If somebody can prove that she accused Shannon, knowing that he wasn't the criminal, I'll stop defending her
Unfortunately, not a lot, if any.
But the legal system depends on prosecutors being impartial.
The average citizen just has to take it.
Most people can't just say "Nope, I was falsely accused. I'm going to continue doing exactly what I was doing before."
In other words, employers (like the University of Illinois) can't just blow off a felony indictment, out of fairness to the people who didn't get indicted.
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