2-4. Big win. Need to get to 11-9.
- Thread starter ricko654321
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Why is this guy on here? Nothing better to do with your life than to go on someone else chat thread and be a jerk?
It’s sad. He’s a loser and I would feel bad for him but he still pisses me off (which is what he wants).
We had a top half of the conference TEAM but we really did not have top have top half of the conference talent. Coaching and how they played together made a huge difference. Also that was the last couple years (there were also a couple pretty good guys that were part of those teams who are no longer here). We have a similar team but it has not totally gelled yet, There weren't many teams we had more overall talent than then and there definitely are not now. What we did have was a solid TEAM, We have that potential again but we have not pulled it together yet
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They are more talented, We play better as a team and teams win. But it is hard to find teams in the BIG that we really have more talent than and MD definitely is not one of them. We also beat IL and we definitely don't have the talent that they do
We shall see. We barely beat them at home and they have a better record. I hope you are right.
No one said we don't have talent, Just that that talent level is not in the top half of the conference. Probably not in the top 2/3s, But we do have a good team that plays well together and wins.
D is about effort and our guys have bought in and put in that effort, It gives us an an advantage that is not respected by fans for its importance.
Sorry but it has been, What is not accounted for is that D is much more about teamwork and effort and our guys have bought in and put in that effort
You are kidding yourself. Talent is closer than it was in the past but it is still not really better than all but a couple teams, But what we do do is play better as a team, Not beating ourselves with turnovers and mistakes, We also have a team that has bought into Defense. Defense is mostly about effort and hard work and the team has bought in and puts in that effort and that gives us an advantage
Our margin of error is really thin so we do need to be concerned with every BIG team
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And, yet, you keep coming here. Is it more sad or bizarre? Because it surely is both.
Most NU grads under 50 work, lil bro. Those over 50 are retired.
I’m about to get you booted from disability payroll for spending all day typing on a rivals board.
If you're gonna play defense at a high level, it’s not just about hustle, though that’s part of it. You need quickness, length, and strength. That’s what made NU elite on defense in 2022. You don’t get there just by putting in effort; it takes talent that puts in the effort.
I don’t get why some people feel the need to tear down athletes who’ve put in the work just because they wore purple. I've said it before, and I’ll say it again: there are guys who could’ve started/played on any team. NU has had some good talent recently. Talent isn’t just star rating and athleticism. There’s natural court vision, touch, and passing ability too.
Guys like Boo and Brooks? They don’t feel like they, or their team, are/were bottom-third. I’m sure they feel disrespected when people say that. I for sure would in their shoes. They not only get disrespected by pundits not seeing their talent but apparently their own fans too. This is not my grandfathers northwestern anymore. It’s the golden era of NU hoops. Act like it.
We are of course better than ever as NU, but once we start directly beating out Illinois and MSU and Purdue, etc. for recruits (I trust that coaches know best when evaluating talent), I’ll change my position that our coaches make us relatively better than our talent does alone. Buie is classic evidence; both he and the coaches built him into an All-American. Barnhizer had no other BIG offers and not many P5 but he and the coaches got him to where he is. Mart was headed to Elon. Love what we are doing and where we are headed, but we are nowhere near the talent level of elite teams; just calling it like it is and not tearing anyone down.
Talent can slip through the cracks. Those guys flashed talent the second they stepped on the court. Buie flashed it his freshman year. Dude broke down a defender off the dribble like no one I had seen at NU prior, his first year here. You don’t get to the level they reached without talent. I’ve never heard of an untalented All-American. You can credit CCC and staff for finding hidden/recruited talent. You can still be in the top half of talent in the big ten and not be elite on the talent perspective. I not once argued NU was elite from a talent perspective. I did say they were upper half in the B1G the last two years. I will stand by that. I also am not arguing we don’t have good coaches or a good system. I believe we have both. I believe getting good talent is a reflection of good coaching.
Boo, Barney, and Nick weren’t devoid of talent when they were being recruited. They were missed by the evaluators. Going back and citing their offers is more a referendum on NU’s staff being strong talent evaluators. As with any staff, there are hits and misses.
Other than you, I am probably in the next tier of biggest CCC supporters around here. I think he and his staff are great. However, the players are always disrespected by our opponents fans, I think a lot of that drives them. They deserve credit for putting in the effort to get where they are. I believe the Boo’s, Barney’s and Nick’s of the world would be very good players at any B1G program! Players like Big Matt, Mullins, or even Berry may not have got the run at other schools because coaches lack patience due to job insecurity.
Great minds. I am a big CCC fan. Have been since we got him. I think giving credit to our players for their talent is something that also shows how good CCC is as a coach. He built this program. He identified these players. He got those players here. Coaches get the best players they can. Good coaches tend to get better players. Can’t call a coach a great recruiter if they’re not bringing in the talent.
Appreciate you guys. Never said any players were devoid of talent. That’s the basis for your last few comments. And they of course deserve credit. It’s a relative discussion; no extremes. Collins deserves relatively more credit than other coaches and so do the players. Collins’ relativity is higher.
I agree with The kid from Holland we are disrespected by the media and on this board but being a good team is not only about individual talent but meshing as a team. We have some uber talented players like Brooks and Nick, some role players who know their roles like Matt and Ty and some really promising freshmen in Gelo and KJ. Our need/hurdle will be to stay "old" in order to remain competitive and this means getting some quality transfers because unless you have Cooper Flagg who is a generational talent most teams will get eaten up in the big ten if they are too young.
I feel like the word "talent" is a trigger for many in our fanbase. We have a real inferiority complex when the word is thrown around. Conversely, a loss to a power in football or basketball will sometimes be blamed by us on a "lack of talent."
Boo was as talented as they come, and with maturity and coaching and hard work, he took those talents and turned himself into the greatest player in school history.
Boo was as talented as they come, and with maturity and coaching and hard work, he took those talents and turned himself into the greatest player in school history.
Uh - disagree he was “as talented as they come” - he ended up our best player in history, but that’s a very different conclusion.
Except, Buie wasn’t an All American.
The Associated Press 2023-24 men’s college basketball All-America teams - WTOP News
The Associated Press 2023-24 All-America men’s basketball team with statistics through regular-season and conference tournaments: Zach Edey, Purdue, 7-4, 300; Senior; Toronto, Ontario, Canada; 24.
wtop.com
No one said that they were devoid of talent. The TEAM is not bottom third. But absolute talent, we are not where other programs are. Talent at NU has improved but that does not mean we are in the top half or even top two thirds, It does mean we are no longer in the sub basement. Talent evaluation has been more into getting people with enough talent but more importantly how they fit into what the coaching staff is trying to do and getting guys to buy in. Before we really embraced D the way we do now, we could not get over the hump. Now we win those close games.
As an example look at the OT games we have won especially at home Multiple OT home wins against the likes of IL and Purdue. Do you really think we are at their level in talent? If so you are kidding yourself. And yet we won those games. Win games against Indiana as well.
A few years back we did have closer to top half talent (with guys like Nance, Kopp and others) But they did not win. Even coming off our first NCAA bid With the same guys that got us to the dance we did not win, Why? because of the intangibles. They did not have enough to get them over the top
No but he did end up as two time All BIG first team which is something that had not happened at NU in a long long timeExcept, Buie wasn’t an All American.
The Associated Press 2023-24 men’s college basketball All-America teams - WTOP News
The Associated Press 2023-24 All-America men’s basketball team with statistics through regular-season and conference tournaments: Zach Edey, Purdue, 7-4, 300; Senior; Toronto, Ontario, Canada; 24.
Hard to say he was as talented as they come. If he was, he would have gotten something more than a G league invite. He was however a great player for us
Purdue has been a powerhouse for a long time with a lot of players that, when they stepped on campus, were not seen as uber talented or particularly athletic.
Does not mean they were not uber talented. In most cases that talent was just underestimated because of athleticism that did not stand out.
Edey, Trevion… Same thing with Boo, Brooks or Nick.
Does not mean they were not uber talented. In most cases that talent was just underestimated because of athleticism that did not stand out.
Edey, Trevion… Same thing with Boo, Brooks or Nick.
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Agreed. Talent does not always equal athleticism. Shooters shoot. Court vision comes a lot more naturally to some.
Arguments about rankings and talent in college recruiting/teams seem challenged by the inherently flawed ranking systems currently in place. There are over 100k high school basketball players graduating every year. How many of them are actually observed/evaluated/ranked? If 90% of possible players aren't even evaluated, just how accurate is the system? What if 99% aren't even glanced at? Seems to me there is a ton of room to find diamonds in the rough if you go looking in all the places no one else bothers.
I will argue that being a true team player is a kind of talent, as are mental toughness, competitive drive, and a few other similar things that go beyond height, speed and other measurables. Collins and staff seem to gotten better at targeting kids with them and spend less time pursuing the purely physical specimens that have largely failed to show up in the recent past. That doesn't mean they won't pursue highly ranked players, but I think the rankings are no longer enough. Collins has learned from his mistakes - although of course he may misfire again in the future because intangibles.
I think we can all agree, with hindsight, that we'd rather be bringing in guys like Nick Martinelli rather than Robbie Beran, and I like both guys and what they did for the school, not a knock just a comparison of their rankings.
One of the things that Carmody's staff was pretty good at was finding guys like Shurna, Juice, and Drew
Anyhow, I get that one of the underlying themes of threads like these are some posters ongoing need to be right that Collins is/isn't the bestest coach ever and the only real reason for the team's successes, and they're willing to die on that unacknowledged hill forever.
Another long running theme can be that NU will rarely be able to compete for the kinds of talent Illinois and MSU bring in simply because, let's say, those players have been so dedicated to basketball they stand no chance with admissions.
I will argue that being a true team player is a kind of talent, as are mental toughness, competitive drive, and a few other similar things that go beyond height, speed and other measurables. Collins and staff seem to gotten better at targeting kids with them and spend less time pursuing the purely physical specimens that have largely failed to show up in the recent past. That doesn't mean they won't pursue highly ranked players, but I think the rankings are no longer enough. Collins has learned from his mistakes - although of course he may misfire again in the future because intangibles.
I think we can all agree, with hindsight, that we'd rather be bringing in guys like Nick Martinelli rather than Robbie Beran, and I like both guys and what they did for the school, not a knock just a comparison of their rankings.
One of the things that Carmody's staff was pretty good at was finding guys like Shurna, Juice, and Drew
Anyhow, I get that one of the underlying themes of threads like these are some posters ongoing need to be right that Collins is/isn't the bestest coach ever and the only real reason for the team's successes, and they're willing to die on that unacknowledged hill forever.
Another long running theme can be that NU will rarely be able to compete for the kinds of talent Illinois and MSU bring in simply because, let's say, those players have been so dedicated to basketball they stand no chance with admissions.
Sorry, the Nance, Kopp, Beran class was not upper half of B1G. Just like the Boo, Barney, Nick were underrated out of HS, these guys were overrated coming in. This team overall has more talent than the Kopp teams. I believe you knew by the second year in the program that all three of Boo, Barney and Nick would be better college players than the more higher rated predecessors.
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