A brief nugget in an article about the officiating in this year's tourney

[CappyNU]

Q&A: NCAA officials coordinator on controversy around calls in men’s tournament

J.D. Collins spoke exclusively to The Athletic after a weekend that saw at least three games stand out for the whistles, or lack thereof.

theathletic.com

How will you decide which officials move forward to the next round?​

​

I tell my officials three things. One, if you err on a rule, you are subject to not advancing. Two, if you’re involved in a game-deciding play and it’s wrong — but that doesn’t have to mean at the end of the game. A few years ago we had that situation with the hand through the net with Northwestern (when officials failed to whistle Gonzaga’s Zach Collins for blocking a shot through the rim). We sent that crew home because that altered the outcome of the game. And three, if your missed call ratio is too high.​

​

Now I have to take into context the whole game. If you’ve made 35 or 36 correct calls and you missed one with 1:10 left and you’re one of the best officials in the game? We need that official. It’s not always a black-and-white answer. There are some gray areas.​

​

Sigh...

 

[GOUNUII]

Q&A: NCAA officials coordinator on controversy around calls in men’s tournament

J.D. Collins spoke exclusively to The Athletic after a weekend that saw at least three games stand out for the whistles, or lack thereof.

theathletic.com

How will you decide which officials move forward to the next round?​

​

I tell my officials three things. One, if you err on a rule, you are subject to not advancing. Two, if you’re involved in a game-deciding play and it’s wrong — but that doesn’t have to mean at the end of the game. A few years ago we had that situation with the hand through the net with Northwestern (when officials failed to whistle Gonzaga’s Zach Collins for blocking a shot through the rim). We sent that crew home because that altered the outcome of the game. And three, if your missed call ratio is too high.​

​

Now I have to take into context the whole game. If you’ve made 35 or 36 correct calls and you missed one with 1:10 left and you’re one of the best officials in the game? We need that official. It’s not always a black-and-white answer. There are some gray areas.​

​

Sigh...

Blind eyes ( the obvious to everyone goal tending by rule ) and bad judgment ( the technical on Collins ) at a momentum killing critical moment in the game. Every member of that crew should have been indefinitely suspended from officiating tournament games. Same for the crew that did the Arizona - TCU game this year. How in the world can 3 officials all miss the TCU ballhandler getting knocked/fouled to the ground with seconds to go and the game tied? Again. No judgment required. Blind eyes altered the outcome again.

Reminds me of years ago when I won a Supreme Court argument on a precedent setting case. Then in a one in a million development, the Court accepted reconsideration under intense Trial Lawyers outcries and ultimately reversed itself. Only to reinstate a couple years later (with a slightly altered Court) their original decision in a different matter on the grounds that the recon decision that screwed my client was "clearly erroneous". The Court expressly acknowledged they got it right the first time.

I ultimately won the arguments for the benefit of everybody but my client. They still lost.

GOUNUII

 

[NUCat320]

Q&A: NCAA officials coordinator on controversy around calls in men’s tournament

J.D. Collins spoke exclusively to The Athletic after a weekend that saw at least three games stand out for the whistles, or lack thereof.

theathletic.com

How will you decide which officials move forward to the next round?​

​

I tell my officials three things. One, if you err on a rule, you are subject to not advancing. Two, if you’re involved in a game-deciding play and it’s wrong — but that doesn’t have to mean at the end of the game. A few years ago we had that situation with the hand through the net with Northwestern (when officials failed to whistle Gonzaga’s Zach Collins for blocking a shot through the rim). We sent that crew home because that altered the outcome of the game. And three, if your missed call ratio is too high.​

​

Now I have to take into context the whole game. If you’ve made 35 or 36 correct calls and you missed one with 1:10 left and you’re one of the best officials in the game? We need that official. It’s not always a black-and-white answer. There are some gray areas.​

​

Sigh...

 

[CappyNU]

Every member of that crew should have been indefinitely suspended from officiating tournament games.

Well, all three officials from that crew have continued to ref tourney games every year since, including this year, so they surely learned a lesson about accountability.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Blind eyes ( the obvious to everyone goal tending by rule ) and bad judgment ( the technical on Collins ) at a momentum killing critical moment in the game. Every member of that crew should have been indefinitely suspended from officiating tournament games. Same for the crew that did the Arizona - TCU game this year. How in the world can 3 officials all miss the TCU ballhandler getting knocked/fouled to the ground with seconds to go and the game tied? Again. No judgment required. Blind eyes altered the outcome again.

Reminds me of years ago when I won a Supreme Court argument on a precedent setting case. Then in a one in a million development, the Court accepted reconsideration under intense Trial Lawyers outcries and ultimately reversed itself. Only to reinstate a couple years later (with a slightly altered Court) their original decision in a different matter on the grounds that the recon decision that screwed my client was "clearly erroneous". The Court expressly acknowledged they got it right the first time.

I ultimately won the arguments for the benefit of everybody but my client. They still lost.

GOUNUII

"Blind eyes ( the obvious to everyone goal tending by rule ) and bad judgment ( the technical on Collins ) at a momentum killing critical moment in the game."

I think you meant "bad judgment (the technical by Collins)"

He never spoke to his players about it after the game.

Talk about accountability or the lack thereof.

 

[Styre]

Yeah the Collins T was legit. Coaches get a lot of leeway to complain about an obviously blown call, but there's only so far they can go and Collins went way past that point.

 

[EagerFan]

I wonder how many obviously blown calls are necessary before it's ok for a Coach to complain about them? iirc this was the second thru the net goal tend by the Zags in just a few minutes, neither being called. If the refs had done their jobs correctly, Collins wouldn't have gotten T'd up and the Cats would have been within two.

It's good to know that at the officials coordinator level, they realize the refs changed the game in the Zags favor.

 

[Styre]

I wonder how many obviously blown calls are necessary before it's ok for a Coach to complain about them? iirc this was the second thru the net goal tend by the Zags in just a few minutes, neither being called. If the refs had done their jobs correctly, Collins wouldn't have gotten T'd up and the Cats would have been within two.

It's good to know that at the officials coordinator level, they realize the refs changed the game in the Zags favor.

It's okay to complain about missed calls. Good officials know when they've blown calls and will allow coaches to vent frustrations. But Collins ran onto the court during live game action and got in the face of an official who was trying to run down the floor. It doesn't matter that he wouldn't have been angry if the call hadn't been blown in the first place - he crossed the line and was penalized for it.

In any case, yes, it is good to know that the error was recognized and the officials in question suffered consequences for such an obvious and impactful mistake.

 

[gradeck]

The technical foul was also the fault of the referees, compounding an obvious error.

Collins argued an obvious missed call. He neither impeded play, nor did he block the official from running down the floor. A good referee has to let that argument go. They screwed up twice.

 

[WildcatWillie]

The technical foul was also the fault of the referees, compounding an obvious error.

Collins argued an obvious missed call. He neither impeded play, nor did he block the official from running down the floor. A good referee has to let that argument go. They screwed up twice.

1) No, the technical foul was not "the fault of the referees." There is no provision by rule for entry on court by any non-playing personnel during a live ball. Coach Collins' action was surely from the sincerest motives and his grievance, even based on the coordinator's words, was justified. Still, he should have stayed outside the boundaries. There was no provision at that time for reversal of the no-call and passionate outrage could not justify his coming oncourt. It's close to an automatic call, and the observer/coordinator would have marked the official downward for not administering the technical in that situation.

2) For that matter, NU's coach was screaming at the wrong person, who was in the "trail" position following play upcourt. That meant at the time of the disputed no-call, he had been in the "lead" position along the baseline. By definition, the lead is not focused on the ball near rim level , and should never make a basket interference call. That's Officiating 101; at any moment of play there are L (lead), C (center), and T (trail) officials, and their areas of responsibility are different. The old line about "three sets of eyes out there, and none saw what happened" is fallacious. In almost all cases there had better not be all three officials looking at the same place. It's likely that the basket interference call should've been made from the C position. That official was on the opposite side from the bench, so Coach Collins' righteous fury was directed toward someone who probably didn't even know what the bitching was about.

Interesting that tourney supervisors chose to drop all three officials from the pool for advancement, although prime responsibility for the crucial no-call lay with only one of them. That's because the old officiating mantra is "We're a team out there." There's no place for scapegoating an individual, so all three were penalized for the rest of that tournament.

No one likely wants to read any more discussion about officiating mechanics. In disclosure, suffice to say that I worked nearly 2,000 basketball games on court, and have been an appointed observer/evaluator for a good many more. In my experience few fans and not a lot of media commentators have much understanding of how officials look at games differently from those who are chiefly invested in which team wins or loses.

I loved officiating three sports over 30 years and never worked a perfect game by either my own estimate or that of appointed evaluators. I try not to offer reflexive defense of zebras on WildcatReport or elsewhere, but when there's clear misunderstanding of rule or mechanics, there's an obligation to explain how and why things are done as they are.

 

[catfans5]

1) No, the technical foul was not "the fault of the referees." There is no provision by rule for entry on court by any non-playing personnel during a live ball. Coach Collins' action was surely from the sincerest motives and his grievance, even based on the coordinator's words, was justified. Still, he should have stayed outside the boundaries. There was no provision at that time for reversal of the no-call and passionate outrage could not justify his coming oncourt. It's close to an automatic call, and the observer/coordinator would have marked the official downward for not administering the technical in that situation.

2) For that matter, NU's coach was screaming at the wrong person, who was in the "trail" position following play upcourt. That meant at the time of the disputed no-call, he had been in the "lead" position along the baseline. By definition, the lead is not focused on the ball near rim level , and should never make a basket interference call. That's Officiating 101; at any moment of play there are L (lead), C (center), and T (trail) officials, and their areas of responsibility are different. The old line about "three sets of eyes out there, and none saw what happened" is fallacious. In almost all cases there had better not be all three officials looking at the same place. It's likely that the basket interference call should've been made from the C position. That official was on the opposite side from the bench, so Coach Collins' righteous fury was directed toward someone who probably didn't even know what the bitching was about.

Interesting that tourney supervisors chose to drop all three officials from the pool for advancement, although prime responsibility for the crucial no-call lay with only one of them. That's because the old officiating mantra is "We're a team out there." There's no place for scapegoating an individual, so all three were penalized for the rest of that tournament.

No one likely wants to read any more discussion about officiating mechanics. In disclosure, suffice to say that I worked nearly 2,000 basketball games on court, and have been an appointed observer/evaluator for a good many more. In my experience few fans and not a lot of media commentators have much understanding of how officials look at games differently from those who are chiefly invested in which team wins or loses.

I loved officiating three sports over 30 years and never worked a perfect game by either my own estimate or that of appointed evaluators. I try not to offer reflexive defense of zebras on WildcatReport or elsewhere, but when there's clear misunderstanding of rule or mechanics, there's an obligation to explain how and why things are done as they are.

I want to thank you for a great post. It was very educational and even handed.

 

[Dugan15]

1) No, the technical foul was not "the fault of the referees." There is no provision by rule for entry on court by any non-playing personnel during a live ball. Coach Collins' action was surely from the sincerest motives and his grievance, even based on the coordinator's words, was justified. Still, he should have stayed outside the boundaries. There was no provision at that time for reversal of the no-call and passionate outrage could not justify his coming oncourt. It's close to an automatic call, and the observer/coordinator would have marked the official downward for not administering the technical in that situation.

2) For that matter, NU's coach was screaming at the wrong person, who was in the "trail" position following play upcourt. That meant at the time of the disputed no-call, he had been in the "lead" position along the baseline. By definition, the lead is not focused on the ball near rim level , and should never make a basket interference call. That's Officiating 101; at any moment of play there are L (lead), C (center), and T (trail) officials, and their areas of responsibility are different. The old line about "three sets of eyes out there, and none saw what happened" is fallacious. In almost all cases there had better not be all three officials looking at the same place. It's likely that the basket interference call should've been made from the C position. That official was on the opposite side from the bench, so Coach Collins' righteous fury was directed toward someone who probably didn't even know what the bitching was about.

Interesting that tourney supervisors chose to drop all three officials from the pool for advancement, although prime responsibility for the crucial no-call lay with only one of them. That's because the old officiating mantra is "We're a team out there." There's no place for scapegoating an individual, so all three were penalized for the rest of that tournament.

No one likely wants to read any more discussion about officiating mechanics. In disclosure, suffice to say that I worked nearly 2,000 basketball games on court, and have been an appointed observer/evaluator for a good many more. In my experience few fans and not a lot of media commentators have much understanding of how officials look at games differently from those who are chiefly invested in which team wins or loses.

I loved officiating three sports over 30 years and never worked a perfect game by either my own estimate or that of appointed evaluators. I try not to offer reflexive defense of zebras on WildcatReport or elsewhere, but when there's clear misunderstanding of rule or mechanics, there's an obligation to explain how and why things are done as they are.

Wildcat Willie: Let me understand something. You are using the internet to inform others in a thoughtful, experienced expert manner. Hmmm. I am not familiar with this strategy.

Thank you. It would be fun to watch a game with you.

 

[NUCat320]

Wildcat Willie: Let me understand something. You are using the internet to inform others in a thoughtful, experienced expert manner. Hmmm. I am not familiar with this strategy.

Thank you. It would be fun to watch a game with you.

I’m not so sure.

I’ve inferred he’s blind, holds grudges, a real showoff, and kind of a jerk.

(I kid, I kid. I spent my early teen years umpiring 8-10 year-olds. Those parents could be ruthless.)

 

[phatcat]

Blind eyes ( the obvious to everyone goal tending by rule ) and bad judgment ( the technical on Collins ) at a momentum killing critical moment in the game. Every member of that crew should have been indefinitely suspended from officiating tournament games. Same for the crew that did the Arizona - TCU game this year. How in the world can 3 officials all miss the TCU ballhandler getting knocked/fouled to the ground with seconds to go and the game tied? Again. No judgment required. Blind eyes altered the outcome again.

Reminds me of years ago when I won a Supreme Court argument on a precedent setting case. Then in a one in a million development, the Court accepted reconsideration under intense Trial Lawyers outcries and ultimately reversed itself. Only to reinstate a couple years later (with a slightly altered Court) their original decision in a different matter on the grounds that the recon decision that screwed my client was "clearly erroneous". The Court expressly acknowledged they got it right the first time.

I ultimately won the arguments for the benefit of everybody but my client. They still lost.

GOUNUII

I mean, basketball is interesting, sort of, but I never heard of the Supreme Court reversing a decision like this. What more can you tell us about it? Like, how the @#$% does someone appeal a SCOTUS decision? If it's confidential, I don't need to know the details of the case, just the machinations of how they got them to reconsider. I'm appalled by this. Whether you like their decisions or not, I've always felt like it is a place where the decision is final and both sides will finally shut up (no offense).

 

[TheC]

1) No, the technical foul was not "the fault of the referees." There is no provision by rule for entry on court by any non-playing personnel during a live ball. Coach Collins' action was surely from the sincerest motives and his grievance, even based on the coordinator's words, was justified. Still, he should have stayed outside the boundaries. There was no provision at that time for reversal of the no-call and passionate outrage could not justify his coming oncourt. It's close to an automatic call, and the observer/coordinator would have marked the official downward for not administering the technical in that situation.

While I agree this is the letter of the law, coaches have been coming onto the court during live play a lot. In that MSU-Duke game the other day, Izzo was a good 3 feet out on the court when the ball was on his end. He was giving instructions, but could have been in the play as he looked like a wing-player calling for the ball. The ref didn't T him up, but just calmly gestured for him to get back. I think some coaches get away with this a little more. That said, Izzo wasn't on the court to yell at a ref, but rather to yell at his players, so that's probably an important distinction.

 

[TheC]

I mean, basketball is interesting, sort of, but I never heard of the Supreme Court reversing a decision like this. What more can you tell us about it? Like, how the @#$% does someone appeal a SCOTUS decision? If it's confidential, I don't need to know the details of the case, just the machinations of how they got them to reconsider. I'm appalled by this. Whether you like their decisions or not, I've always felt like it is a place where the decision is final and both sides will finally shut up (no offense).

It's this new activist court!

(Ok.... ok.... I'll shut up.... just couldn't resist a little Rant Board-like shot for ol' times sake)

 

[NUCat320]

It's this new activist court!

(Ok.... ok.... I'll shut up.... just couldn't resist a little Rant Board-like shot for ol' times sake)

KBJ’s a constititional originalist. We’re all goooooood.

 

[mountaindrew]

1) No, the technical foul was not "the fault of the referees." There is no provision by rule for entry on court by any non-playing personnel during a live ball. Coach Collins' action was surely from the sincerest motives and his grievance, even based on the coordinator's words, was justified. Still, he should have stayed outside the boundaries. There was no provision at that time for reversal of the no-call and passionate outrage could not justify his coming oncourt. It's close to an automatic call, and the observer/coordinator would have marked the official downward for not administering the technical in that situation.

2) For that matter, NU's coach was screaming at the wrong person, who was in the "trail" position following play upcourt. That meant at the time of the disputed no-call, he had been in the "lead" position along the baseline. By definition, the lead is not focused on the ball near rim level , and should never make a basket interference call. That's Officiating 101; at any moment of play there are L (lead), C (center), and T (trail) officials, and their areas of responsibility are different. The old line about "three sets of eyes out there, and none saw what happened" is fallacious. In almost all cases there had better not be all three officials looking at the same place. It's likely that the basket interference call should've been made from the C position. That official was on the opposite side from the bench, so Coach Collins' righteous fury was directed toward someone who probably didn't even know what the bitching was about.

Interesting that tourney supervisors chose to drop all three officials from the pool for advancement, although prime responsibility for the crucial no-call lay with only one of them. That's because the old officiating mantra is "We're a team out there." There's no place for scapegoating an individual, so all three were penalized for the rest of that tournament.

No one likely wants to read any more discussion about officiating mechanics. In disclosure, suffice to say that I worked nearly 2,000 basketball games on court, and have been an appointed observer/evaluator for a good many more. In my experience few fans and not a lot of media commentators have much understanding of how officials look at games differently from those who are chiefly invested in which team wins or loses.

I loved officiating three sports over 30 years and never worked a perfect game by either my own estimate or that of appointed evaluators. I try not to offer reflexive defense of zebras on WildcatReport or elsewhere, but when there's clear misunderstanding of rule or mechanics, there's an obligation to explain how and why things are done as they are.

Thank you, Willie. Outstanding explanation. As a fellow long time basketball official with many HS state tournament games worked, let me add one thing. Yes, to every NU fan watching the game, the natural reaction is HOW THE BLEEP could none of the three supposedly highly qualified D1 officials not see that obvious goaltending??

Because its a hard play to see clearly. As Willie said, only one of the three officials is really looking at the ball and the basket (the other two have their eyes on the players at floor level in their immediate coverage areas), and much more importantly is this: that particular goaltending play is VERY uncommon. College officials see that play more often than I do with HS games - I have personally seen that play in one of my own games I think only twice in 15 years. Even if a D1 official sees that play once or twice a year, its still far too uncommon to be ready for and to be able to see clearly and KNOW THAT YOU KNOW what you saw every time - enough to not hesitate to put air in the whistle.

Also, the C (center) official, in this case, rarely watches the full flight of the ball on a shot... we watch players, not the ball. Its simply a hard play to get right when you are not looking for or expecting it. And yes, they needed to see it and call it, and they didn't.

There are a few times in basketball when everybody else in the gym has a better look at a play than the three officials do, and that's one of them. I don't expect that to make sense to all you non officials, but that's the reality.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

While I agree this is the letter of the law, coaches have been coming onto the court during live play a lot. In that MSU-Duke game the other day, Izzo was a good 3 feet out on the court when the ball was on his end. He was giving instructions, but could have been in the play as he looked like a wing-player calling for the ball. The ref didn't T him up, but just calmly gestured for him to get back. I think some coaches get away with this a little more. That said, Izzo wasn't on the court to yell at a ref, but rather to yell at his players, so that's probably an important distinction.

Yeah, completely I’m with you on this take, C (and a rare occasion that I disagree with Styre!).

Was the technical on Chris Collins the “right call”? Absolutely. Should the official have blown the whistle? IMHO, absolutely not.

As one poster pointed out, this was the second missed goal tend of the game and an incredibly egregious one at that. Let’s not forget that the NCAA issued a statement prior to Collins’ postgame presser. That is quite rare. Not to be overlooked, there were several questionable calls (outside of the goal tends) levied on Northwestern throughout the comeback. If you’re an official, you need to go out of your way to give some leeway when you screw up that bad, otherwise it starts comes across as a lack of impartial officiating, even though I have zero doubt that those officials were highly professional.

Now should Chris have run on the court? No, of course not, but as The C mentioned, this is somewhat commonplace, particularly in the heat of the moment. It’s not like CC threw a chair on the court or cussed out a ref. He argued the call while on the court (a no-no) and made an animated goaltending gesture to get the closest official’s attention. To me, common sense was lacking on the decision to T him up and it served to only compound a bad situation/look for that crew.

That being said, I certainly think it’s fair to have different takes on this and outside of one poster who clearly has an axe to grind, this was a good thread. The commentary from WildcatWillie, in particular, was outstanding (and insightful!).

 

[gradeck]

1) No, the technical foul was not "the fault of the referees." There is no provision by rule for entry on court by any non-playing personnel during a live ball.

Agreed that Collins was in violation of the rules, but as noted, it’s something that is not uniformly enforced and in which referees have discretion (both de jure and de facto). It’s not a question of whether the shooter was behind the three point line or not (for which there is no discretion).

The referee could have let it go. The play had already moved down the floor and the game was not being interrupted by Collins. His reaction was spontaneous, and while excessive, it could have been justifiably overlooked.

 

[GOUNUII]

I mean, basketball is interesting, sort of, but I never heard of the Supreme Court reversing a decision like this. What more can you tell us about it? Like, how the @#$% does someone appeal a SCOTUS decision? If it's confidential, I don't need to know the details of the case, just the machinations of how they got them to reconsider. I'm appalled by this. Whether you like their decisions or not, I've always felt like it is a place where the decision is final and both sides will finally shut up (no offense).

I should have made clear it was the Ohio Supreme Court.

Sorry.

GOUNUII

 

[TheC]

I should have made clear it was the Ohio Supreme Court.

Sorry.

GOUNUII

State politics?? Bah.... forget it.... that's not nearly as fun to argue about.

 

[Styre]

It’s not like CC threw a chair on the court or cussed out a ref. He argued the call while on the court (a no-no) and made an animated goaltending gesture to get the closest official’s attention.

Do we actually know what he said? Obviously he was arguing the non-call, but certain word choices will draw a whistle no matter how justifiably angry you are.

 

[Smolmania]

Question: would the non-goaltend call be reviewable under the current rules? Once the T was called on Collins, could they (today) go to the monitors and revert back to the goaltend? I'm guessing no, but WW's cogent post on the mechanics of the officiating, it would seem that replay could be a potential solution for such an egregious error (despite how difficult it may be to actually see the violation).

Or, would it make sense for the tournament to have the 4th official who stands by actually be viewing the video in real time, with ability to stop the action to remediate errors like this one? Sort of the proposed "eye in the sky" referee often discussed for the NFL...

I realize that it's not realistic to have that standby ref at every regular season game, but March Madness is a huge money making event, and the NCAA could easily afford the expense.

 

[hudsoncat]

Do we actually know what he said? Obviously he was arguing the non-call, but certain word choices will draw a whistle no matter how justifiably angry you are.

I’ve always felt like it was CCC’s aggressiveness combined with the gesture’s resemblance to an offensive move that was misconstrued by the ref in the heat of battle. I guess we’ll never know.

 

[JournCat]

As one poster pointed out, this was the second missed goal tend of the game and an incredibly egregious one at that. Let’s not forget that the NCAA issued a statement prior to Collins’ postgame presser. That is quite rare.

That statement did nothing to change the outcome, but it did produce Chris' second-best GIF ...

(The unquestioned No. 1 is of course ...)

 

[Alaskawildkat]

Blind eyes ( the obvious to everyone goal tending by rule ) and bad judgment ( the technical on Collins ) at a momentum killing critical moment in the game. Every member of that crew should have been indefinitely suspended from officiating tournament games. Same for the crew that did the Arizona - TCU game this year. How in the world can 3 officials all miss the TCU ballhandler getting knocked/fouled to the ground with seconds to go and the game tied? Again. No judgment required. Blind eyes altered the outcome again.

Reminds me of years ago when I won a Supreme Court argument on a precedent setting case. Then in a one in a million development, the Court accepted reconsideration under intense Trial Lawyers outcries and ultimately reversed itself. Only to reinstate a couple years later (with a slightly altered Court) their original decision in a different matter on the grounds that the recon decision that screwed my client was "clearly erroneous". The Court expressly acknowledged they got it right the first time.

I ultimately won the arguments for the benefit of everybody but my client. They still lost.

GOUNUII

"Reminds me of years ago when I won a Supreme Court argument on a precedent setting case. Then in a one in a million development, the Court accepted reconsideration under intense Trial Lawyers outcries and ultimately reversed itself."

Your account brought to mind a somewhat similar experience.

The insurance company that hired me wanted to avoid setting a precedent in a case that challenged the validity of a release when the injured party contended there were changed circumstances after he had signed the release. Unexpectedly, The State Supreme Court went ahead and issued an opinion anyway despite the case having been re-settled.

To this date almost every injury case release in my state references that case and states something to the effect that although the signer is aware there is a case that says a release may be set aside if there are unknown circumstances later, that the signer waives such and acknowledges theirs is full and final settlement.

Witt v. Watkins, 579 P.2d 1065 (Alaska, 1978)

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I would hope most NU fans are aware that Collins

a) leaves the designated coaching area a lot during play, certainly more than the majority of coaches.

b) is regularly seen on the court during live play, yelling stuff to his players. This is mostly on the road when it is too loud for his players to hear him.

Regarding the Gonzaga game.... here's how USA Today saw it...

"In an emotionally charged game that devolved into a foul-fest in the second half — 17 on Northwestern, 12 on Gonzaga — his protests crept closer and closer to the line as the game wore on.

One Division I coach who requested anonymity, in fact, actually sent a text to a USA TODAY Sports reporter midway through the second half: “I like Chris, but can’t believe he hasn’t gotten a T.”

Well, he did.

And even though it had disastrous consequences for the Wildcats, he didn’t seem to think he did anything wrong."

 

[phatcat]

I would hope most NU fans are aware that Collins

a) leaves the designated coaching area a lot during play, certainly more than the majority of coaches.

b) is regularly seen on the court during live play, yelling stuff to his players. This is mostly on the road when it is too loud for his players to hear him.

Regarding the Gonzaga game.... here's how USA Today saw it...

"In an emotionally charged game that devolved into a foul-fest in the second half — 17 on Northwestern, 12 on Gonzaga — his protests crept closer and closer to the line as the game wore on.

One Division I coach who requested anonymity, in fact, actually sent a text to a USA TODAY Sports reporter midway through the second half: “I like Chris, but can’t believe he hasn’t gotten a T.”

Well, he did.

And even though it had disastrous consequences for the Wildcats, he didn’t seem to think he did anything wrong."

I'm not gonna beat him up for this, even though he was in the wrong. It would be like a new salesman at a company that had a record year, and the company itself also had a record year, and he got drunk at the office Christmas party (are there anymore?) and said some stupid stuff. I'll always give him a pass on this. He got us there, no one else has. But...there is a laundry list of stuff since the tourney year that he's done wrong. I'm with Gragg - win or leave.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I'm not gonna beat him up for this, even though he was in the wrong. It would be like a new salesman at a company that had a record year, and the company itself also had a record year, and he got drunk at the office Christmas party (are there anymore?) and said some stupid stuff. I'll always give him a pass on this. He got us there, no one else has. But...there is a laundry list of stuff since the tourney year that he's done wrong. I'm with Gragg - win or leave.

Careful or there will be people screaming at you for calling Collins a "drunk salesman!"

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Careful or there will be people screaming at you for calling Collins a "drunk salesman!"

I wish they would have made a change, mainly so I don’t have to see another 12 months of every single post you make blasting the HC with repetitive cheap shots.

 

[JournCat]

I wish they would have made a change, mainly so I don’t have to see another 12 months of every single post you make blasting the HC with repetitive cheap shots.

It will truly be hilarious when the next coach struggles and people still bring up Carmody.

 

[NUCat320]

It will truly be hilarious when the next coach struggles and people still bring up Carmody.

I personally think it’s time for a good O’Neill versus Carmody row.

 

[NJCat]

It will truly be hilarious when the next coach struggles and people still bring up Carmody.

The gift that keeps on giving......

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I wish they would have made a change, mainly so I don’t have to see another 12 months of every single post you make blasting the HC with repetitive cheap shots.

Hopefully the Athletic Director evaluates our coaches based on other criteria.

For the record, only about half of my posts are about Collins.
And they aren't cheap shots - accurate statements are not cheap shots.
Sure, some are repetitive.

But your reaction to my posts isn't really basis for firing Chris Collins, now is it?

 

[pawildcat]

1) No, the technical foul was not "the fault of the referees." There is no provision by rule for entry on court by any non-playing personnel during a live ball. Coach Collins' action was surely from the sincerest motives and his grievance, even based on the coordinator's words, was justified. Still, he should have stayed outside the boundaries. There was no provision at that time for reversal of the no-call and passionate outrage could not justify his coming oncourt. It's close to an automatic call, and the observer/coordinator would have marked the official downward for not administering the technical in that situation.

2) For that matter, NU's coach was screaming at the wrong person, who was in the "trail" position following play upcourt. That meant at the time of the disputed no-call, he had been in the "lead" position along the baseline. By definition, the lead is not focused on the ball near rim level , and should never make a basket interference call. That's Officiating 101; at any moment of play there are L (lead), C (center), and T (trail) officials, and their areas of responsibility are different. The old line about "three sets of eyes out there, and none saw what happened" is fallacious. In almost all cases there had better not be all three officials looking at the same place. It's likely that the basket interference call should've been made from the C position. That official was on the opposite side from the bench, so Coach Collins' righteous fury was directed toward someone who probably didn't even know what the bitching was about.

Interesting that tourney supervisors chose to drop all three officials from the pool for advancement, although prime responsibility for the crucial no-call lay with only one of them. That's because the old officiating mantra is "We're a team out there." There's no place for scapegoating an individual, so all three were penalized for the rest of that tournament.

No one likely wants to read any more discussion about officiating mechanics. In disclosure, suffice to say that I worked nearly 2,000 basketball games on court, and have been an appointed observer/evaluator for a good many more. In my experience few fans and not a lot of media commentators have much understanding of how officials look at games differently from those who are chiefly invested in which team wins or loses.

I loved officiating three sports over 30 years and never worked a perfect game by either my own estimate or that of appointed evaluators. I try not to offer reflexive defense of zebras on WildcatReport or elsewhere, but when there's clear misunderstanding of rule or mechanics, there's an obligation to explain how and why things are done as they are.

Having tried to informally referee some games at the recreational level, I can appreciate how hard it must be to officiate games involving accomplished fast-moving athletes. Basketball is a tough one to call given the speed of the modern game and the subtle aspect of how much to control the game without impeding its flow (do I let them bang some or call a tight game). I can complain about the refs as much as anyone, but sometimes the level of abuse directed at them, especially at youth sports contests where adults should be setting somewhat of an example, is uncalled for.

A friend of mine was interested in taking the PIAA exam to qualify for reffing basketball in Pennsylvania, but after getting a torrent of abuse while officiating the local YMCA adult league this year is not sure he wants to go through with it. People he considers friends were literally screaming at him about calls he made on the court. The athletic conference our local high school belongs to probably will not be able to play all of its football games on Friday night because there are only 12 full football officiating crews to serve a 36-team conference.

Like it or not, officiating crews are necessary if we're to have sports, and it's getting harder to get them. Just as with teaching, retail sales, and other jobs where you have to deal with the public nowadays, it becomes a question of whether the financial return or job satisfaction you get is worth the crap you have to put up with.

 

[WildcatWillie]

A friend of mine was interested in taking the PIAA exam to qualify for reffing basketball in Pennsylvania, but after getting a torrent of abuse while officiating the local YMCA adult league this year is not sure he wants to go through with it. People he considers friends were literally screaming at him about calls he made on the court. The athletic conference our local high school belongs to probably will not be able to play all of its football games on Friday night because there are only 12 full football officiating crews to serve a 36-team conference.

The officials shortage you describe is evidently nationwide. Though inactive for well over a decade, I still receive the monthly Referee magazine (yes, Virginia, there is such a thing) that reports on current challenges of recruiting people to the field. Particularly at lower levels, the shortages are pretty much everywhere.

I hope your friend will overcome his distaste for being screamed at and pursue PIAA membership. One good thing about working school games is that there's usually at least security on hand to guard against actual assault (which has happened) against game officials. After a while it's possible to tune out the catcalls in large part, but the worst are when the "crowd" is small and individual voices can be heard.

Story time: Tell your friend there's one way things could be worse than they used to be. A long-ago high school basketball rule required one official to stand at midcourt in front of the scorer's table during any timeout "to observe bench decorum." (As you can imagine, it all too often just gave a coach unfettered access to bark at a stationary target.)

At one afternoon school game many years back I'd made an out-of-bounds call clear across the gym from where all of maybe 50 spectators were seated. None of them had the slightest angle from which to comment on the call's accuracy, but one gentleman at least was moved to do so. As I stood stolidly in the "observation position," he loudly called out, "Hey baldie! You ain't got no hair, you ain't got no eyes, and you ain't got no brains!" But then a woman from the other end cried out, "And YOU ain't got no grammar!" (This was in Texas, after all.) The shouts were all too audible and the table staff cracked up along with the huddled players, while I tried to remain impassive through the rest of the timeout. At that moment the critic's assessment was inarguable; any response from me would be fruitless.

But the fun wasn't over. When teams returned oncourt to resume play, the visiting captain stepped up and said, "Ref, you're OK. My guy did step on the line but no one else saw it." I murmured something about how it was okay, that parents could get overexerted at times. The captain surprisingly replied, "That guy's not a parent. He's our bus driver."

Experiences like that deserve to be remembered, and I hope your buddy is able to develop his own memories. I wouldn't trade anything for mine. One gets used to the hollering and as crowds get bigger, it's often just a general din and individual comments can't even be heard.

You're among my favorite posters, pawildcat.

 

[ubercat]

I guess the refs must hear a lot of verbal abuse in a half-empty Welsh-Ryan, then. Side bar: I used to work as a volunteer referee in a high school level church league. And the coaches saw that I didn't have the IHSA patch on my shirt. As Simon and Garfunkel said, I "heard words you never heard in the Bible." At that point, I professed even greater respect for professional officiating.

 

[TheC]

The officials shortage you describe is evidently nationwide. Though inactive for well over a decade, I still receive the monthly Referee magazine (yes, Virginia, there is such a thing) that reports on current challenges of recruiting people to the field. Particularly at lower levels, the shortages are pretty much everywhere.

I hope your friend will overcome his distaste for being screamed at and pursue PIAA membership. One good thing about working school games is that there's usually at least security on hand to guard against actual assault (which has happened) against game officials. After a while it's possible to tune out the catcalls in large part, but the worst are when the "crowd" is small and individual voices can be heard.

Story time: Tell your friend there's one way things could be worse than they used to be. A long-ago high school basketball rule required one official to stand at midcourt in front of the scorer's table during any timeout "to observe bench decorum." (As you can imagine, it all too often just gave a coach unfettered access to bark at a stationary target.)

At one afternoon school game many years back I'd made an out-of-bounds call clear across the gym from where all of maybe 50 spectators were seated. None of them had the slightest angle from which to comment on the call's accuracy, but one gentleman at least was moved to do so. As I stood stolidly in the "observation position," he loudly called out, "Hey baldie! You ain't got no hair, you ain't got no eyes, and you ain't got no brains!" But then a woman from the other end cried out, "And YOU ain't got no grammar!" (This was in Texas, after all.) The shouts were all too audible and the table staff cracked up along with the huddled players, while I tried to remain impassive through the rest of the timeout. At that moment the critic's assessment was inarguable; any response from me would be fruitless.

But the fun wasn't over. When teams returned oncourt to resume play, the visiting captain stepped up and said, "Ref, you're OK. My guy did step on the line but no one else saw it." I murmured something about how it was okay, that parents could get overexerted at times. The captain surprisingly replied, "That guy's not a parent. He's our bus driver."

Experiences like that deserve to be remembered, and I hope your buddy is able to develop his own memories. I wouldn't trade anything for mine. One gets used to the hollering and as crowds get bigger, it's often just a general din and individual comments can't even be heard.

You're among my favorite posters, pawildcat.

It is the strangest thing what sports do to us, and then when you get our own kids involved.... forget about it!! I'm blaming it on evolution because it makes no logical sense. I've never done anything really awful at youth games, but I've certainly audibly groaned and grumbled about calls in the moment. Looking at it calmly after the fact makes you cringe with embarrassment. I think even the most saintly person has probably been guilty of it, even though we know its wrong.

 

[EagerFan]

Perhaps some day down the road, venues will supplement refs with AI operated cameras.

Recognizing there is a reffing shortage, it seems like there aren't enough refs in a game to watch everything they need to watch.