AlertNU
- Thread starter CoralSpringsCat
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After active shooter drills at our school. It would take kids and the school environment a couple days to get back to normal. The drills were traumatic in their own way.
It’s sequential. First, get out of the way. If you can’t, don’t let the shooter know where you are. If not possible, go be a hero.
Now, the standardized training for schools is called ALICE
Alert
Lockdown
Inform
Counter
Evacuate
I think in this case, Lockdown and Hide are one and the same. Teacher locks the door, maybe puts a barrier in front of it. AND the kids all hide in a location that would be difficult to see from the hallway. Maybe a closet. Maybe behind the teacher’s desk. Maybe just in a corner that shares a wall with the outside.
Run Hide Fight seems like more of an open-air, self-preservation thing for shooters at places where you’re effectively alone, like parades or country music festivals or grocery stores . ALICE training is more when you’ve got a routine and can plan a little, like elementary schools or middle schools or high schools or private schools or more rarely offices.
Michigan State was more of a Run Hide Fight scenario. Oxford was more of a ALICE scenario.
Anyway, sounds like this was just a spare bullet or two, so everyone is fine. Guns are good and important, and occasional gunfire just means everyone is safer.
Parents never get warnings on fire drill days. We get a week’s notice for ALICE days.
They tell us "Avoid Barricade Confront" ABC as the equivalent of "Run Hide Fight" in our periodic training at our office in Midtown NYC. As 320 tells us, it's sequential in terms of priority, first try to avoid, then try to protect yourself, confront is the last option but is probably better than going down without a fight if that's going to happen anyways.
At the risk of either having my post deleted or being banned from the board, I would add a 4th - carry!
There are multiple ways to respond to an active shooter situation, depending on if it happens in an outdoor open space or in an enclosed space like an office or building.
Our kids practice at their school at least once a year.
For what it’s worth, the Super Bowl parade shooters were disarmed without a firearm.
Are there circumstances where you’ve used your weapon in a public place? No judgment, just curious.
If you were carrying and an active shooter situation emerged, would you go with Run/Hide/Fight, or would you start with fight?
Plenty of good guys had guns in Uvalde, and yet they did nothing while a madman massacred children with a semi-automatic.
I know this will get deleted. So be it.
You don’t necessarily need another gun to fight an active shooter.
Most people - even average police officers - are terrible shots. In a moment of duress or challenge, they’ll miss.
Don’t get me wrong: if a shooter breaks out near me, I’m grabbing my kids and running for cover. But I’m too big to be that fast. Sometimes you’ve got to stand your ground.
When I was growing up, we had atomic bomb drills. We learned that if you put your head down on your desk and closed all the curtains that we would be safe from a nuclear explosion.
Believe me, I would have loved to gone into all of the data that goes against your post, but considering it would be political in nature, I simply removed yours instead.
It’s a shame that it has become a political topic, but it has. We’re not going to solve any big problems because of political tribalism. It’s depressing.
My second post was to pull your chain, which apparently, it did.
However, my original post, which you chose to delete, was about the actual, versus perceived effectiveness, of the "Protect Illinois Communities Act", (PICA) that makes new purchases of previously legal firearms (AR 15's in particular, along with many other restricted items) now illegal, and requires current owners of those firearms to register them with the state.
So here's some data for you that is NOT political, but judging the effectiveness of PICA might be.
There are approximately 2.4 million FOID (Firearm Owners Identification Card) holders in the state of Illinois. It's probably reasonable to assume that if one is a FOID card holder, one probably owns a firearm.
Now PICA was passed around a year ago and went into effect on January 1, 2024.
On January 1, 2024 anybody that possessed an AR 15 and resided in Illinois was required to register his AR 15's with the state police. And approximately 16,000 FOID card holders registered approximately 54,000 AR 15's with the state police prior to 1/1/24. If my math is correct, that's an average of a little over 3.3 AR 15's per FOID card holder.
As mentioned, Illinois has 2.4 million FOID card holders, but I'm not going to suggest that there are 8,100,000 AR 15's in Illinois. But I wouldn't be surprised at all, if there were between 1.5 to 2.0 million. So it would appear that as many as a million or more AR 15's in Illinois have not been registered with the State Police. Do you think that any of those suspected million AR 15's will EVER be registered with the state police when the owners are currently in violation of the law, and ninety percent of the sheriffs in the state have said that they will not be enforcing PICA? There's another fly in the ointment of PICA which also limits its effectiveness, but we've covered enough ground for now.
Oh yeah, not to worry about mine! Last year, I gifted them to a law abiding relative who lives in another state.
So back to my original question, How effective is PICA, or put another way, do you feel safer because of it, or, another way, has it effectively addressed a real problem?
Anxiously waiting for your reasoned response, or another deletion, or a ban, whichever makes you feel better.
NCRU, In the ‘50’s at my schools in Chicago every Tuesday at 10:15 or 10:30 the air raid sirens would sound and the drill was to shelter under our desks to protect us from falling debris.
My kid got a gun pulled on him near his dorm at Berkeley in September. Was on campus to visit him a couple weeks ago and there was an active shooter at the gym we picked him up from an hour after we picked him up. A few days later another shooter in downtown Berkeley a few streets from campus. A kid OD’d in his dorm from fent laced coke a day later.
What happened to this country that you can’t go anywhere without having to fear getting shot and you have to worry about what’s in your blow?
What happened to this country that you can’t go anywhere without having to fear getting shot and you have to worry about what’s in your blow?
So it actually sounds like your kid had a gun pulled on him, which is terrible, and survived, which is wonderful. There was no need to protect or defend. He simply didn’t escalate. Good for him, and better for you. I’m happy he survived.
@WaveJumper, I asked before, because I’m interested. Have you ever used your firearm in public?
Sigh...sure.
1) You are assuming that anyone with a FOID also owns 1 or more AR 15s, except that a FOID is required to own any kind of firearm, so you are conflating these two numbers and you cannot extrapolate just from the number of AR 15s registered against FOID holders.
2) As has been well established, the borders of Illinois are not sealed, and therefore any legislation intended to reduce the amount of guns in Illinois will always be defeated by the presence of Indiana, Wisconsin, Mississippi, and any other state that has lax laws.
3) One would think sheriffs would feel safer knowing that they don't have to worry that anyone might have a gun whenever they need to have an encounter with the population and would therefore be in support of enforcing PICA
4) In my nanny state of New Jersey, we don't have to worry about mass shootings, as we are consistently at the bottom of firearm deaths by state, owing in part to very strict gun laws and the strictness of surrounding states.
New Jersey doesn’t strike me as a safe state. I feel safer in Texas where the good guys are armed and they can stop the bad guys cold with the sensible stand your ground laws there. Bad guys don't come around and steal so much when the consequences are a few rounds in their head.
Vs. California. Which has strict gun laws that do nothing to put guns out of the hands of the bad guys. And the good guys have to worry about getting robbed and getting smashed and grabbed because they have even loonier laws where it isnt a real crime if youre stealing as long as its less than $900. I mean what idiot came up with that idea and why didn't they forsee what would naturally happen?
Don't mess with Texas.
Your read on state rates is incorrect, of course. New Jersey is in fact third from the bottom in firearm mortality. California is eighth from the bottom.
Illinois and Texas are right next to each other.
And, like always, poverty + lax gun laws is the worst combination.
Highest firearm mortality
Mississippi
Louisiana
New Mexico
Alabama
Wyoming
Note that this is 2021 data:
Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality
www.cdc.gov
@EvanstonCat do you wish your son had been carrying a firearm when he had a gun pulled on him. Would he be better off if he had chosen “protect and defend”?
Whatta we gonna do next, arm our sports teams, just in case Rutgers comes to town packin' heat?
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This is pure fantasy.
Most mass shootings in Texas were no different than other mass shootings in the USA. Most recently, no armed citizen heroically intervened to stop the 2023 mass shooting that resulted in eight deaths at a mall in Allen, near Dallas. Shootings at Walmart in El Paso, various schools, and random outbursts like Midland-Odessa all were ended by police.
Unless you’re in a church. Christians apparently love their firearms - one shooting at a church in 2019 ended with an armed congregation member, apparently part of the volunteer security team, killing the shooter. A lot of other members were packing heat. The name of the town: White Settlement, Texas. You can’t make up this shit. Bad choice by the shooter.
More guns equals more gun deaths. I don’t think that’s really debatable. I think we have 3 or 4 times more accidental gun deaths each year (around 500) than England has gun homocides. I understand the horse has left the barn and there are so many guns out there that any legislation now won’t be nearly as impactful. But I fear for my kids when they go out to bars. Drunk idiots (who may be “good guys”) can now shoot someone when they perceive a threat. It’s crazy to me.
and Salma Hayek doesn't strike @Hungry Jack as being married; rather, she is deeply attracted to him and will be knocking on his door imminently.
I appreciate your response, rather deciding to just delete my post.
Sigh. . .
However your statement quoted, is not even close to what I assumed is the number of AR 15s owned per FOID card holder. I assumed ownership of AR 15s was somewhere between .625 AR 15s per FOID, to .83 AR15s per FOID, NOT 1 to 1. Let's assume that half of FOID card holders own an AR 15. That's still over a million AR 15s in Illinois, which leaves about 936,000 unregistered AR 15s. The state claimed (in a victory lap presentation on the effectiveness of PICA) that over 6 percent of all AR 15s have been registered. Those are the state's numbers, not mine. If you do the math, that says they believe there are around 1 million AR 15s in Illinois. How many AR 15s are there in Illinois? We'll never know because, other than the 64,000 that have been registered, the rest "in the wild" will NEVER be registered, because the state has made it a crime now (after 1/1/24) to own an unregistered AR 15, so why would an owner, who now would be charged with a crime, go register his firearm. That will NOT happen.
Given the flavor of this board, I'm aware that I'm in the minority, and we're not going to come to any kind of agreement on this issue. Those who would ban AR 15s will not change their position, and I will never give up my right to own one, or more. In fact, I would rather give them away, than register them.
I remain unconvinced that the PICA act is effective. Moreover to me, it provides the state with the POTENTIAL for illegal confiscation from law abiding owners if it had the data it seeks. Fortunately it will not have that data.
@WaveJumper Based on your non-response, I assume that you have never used your weapon as protection in public. Is that correct?
Under what circumstances have you used your AR-15?
Under what circumstances have you used your AR-15?
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