Athlon - Anonymous coaches on NU

[Gatabowl]

I agree that Stanford and Duke are fine academic schools and have better than average graduation rates. The difference is that Northwestern puts in the effort of making sure their athletes graduate with a Northwestern degree. It is part of the 40 not 4 concept. The difference on an 85 man roster for Stanford, is 10 kids who did not graduate. Of those 10, statistically only 2 went on to other schools to graduate while the other 8 left with no degree at all from any college (within 6 years). My guess is every football player who signed a letter of intent to Stanford and Duke wanted a degree from that university, but 12% of the roster will not get one. That is a very significant difference.

I totally get what you’re saying. 40 not 4 isn’t unique to NU though and there is a certain level of accountability and nuance involved here. There are a lot of drivers and potential factors to the discrepancy. For example, does Stanford have the “easier” majors NU does? Do they dissuade most athletes from pursuing more difficult majors (for every Patrick Ward there is Colter interested in going pre-med and pushed to Psychology. The same happens with others who end up in Comms, LOC, SESP)? How much does the staff push and how much accountability do they put on the players?

Students have agency when it comes to their education and goals. They are provided with ample resources and are not children. Given that all but 10 graduated I can’t imagine that the coaching staff is saying education doesn’t matter or they don’t have to go to class. I want all students to graduate, but how hard does the school need to push/tutor a kid who gets the opportunity of a lifetime but isn’t interested?

 

[Gatabowl]

I want to apologize to the board for my rant on graduation rate. I have a pet peeve on this topic for another reason. As a black male, I hate the exploitation of black athletes by colleges. So, in Northwestern’s football numbers, 100% of football players who are black graduated from Northwestern with a degree. Of the 10 people on Stanford’s roster who did not get a Stanford degree, 8 were black, 1 was Hispanic, and 1 was white. Of the 10 people on Duke’s roster who did not get a Duke degree, all 10 were black. So, no I don’t think it is equivalent and I fully understand what lies under the data. It really irks me.

You don’t have to apologize. It’s a valid and intellectually stimulating topic.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Just like you always do your condescending self. Really stick to just knowledge of football. You are out of your league in everything else.

Now go look up Stanford’s overall graduation rates, especially for those who got Pell or other similar financial aid.

Either way, this is the post that started our exchange:

I was under the impression that we did not do it to the degree that Stanford does and that is one reason their graduation rate for athletes is not that high (88% for their football players vs 97% for ours).

Stanford and NU do not have material difference in academic standards for athletes. Period. The rest of your rant is mostly a diatribe on immaterial differences in graduation data that you yourself admit isn’t bulletproof.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I want to apologize to the board for my rant on graduation rate. I have a pet peeve on this topic for another reason. As a black male, I hate the exploitation of black athletes by colleges. So, in Northwestern’s football numbers, 100% of football players who are black graduated from Northwestern with a degree. Of the 10 people on Stanford’s roster who did not get a Stanford degree, 8 were black, 1 was Hispanic, and 1 was white. Of the 10 people on Duke’s roster who did not get a Duke degree, all 10 were black. So, no I don’t think it is equivalent and I fully understand what lies under the data. It really irks me.

This is rather interesting. Thanks for doing the work to look into it. We could use more of that around these parts.
Your information should close the debate on which football program cares the most about preparing its black athletes for success in life.
Hail to thee, Northwestern football.

Stating it differently, this information appears to support the argument that Pat Fitzgerald was doing more than any other D1 head coach to help black athletes prepare for their lives after college. Obviously it also says a lot for the type of player Fitzgerald was bringing into the university.

Weird facts, given that the administration essentially branded Fitzgerald a racist, immoral, unethical scumbag and threw him out.

 

[hdhntr1]

I totally get what you’re saying. 40 not 4 isn’t unique to NU though and there is a certain level of accountability and nuance involved here. There are a lot of drivers and potential factors to the discrepancy. For example, does Stanford have the “easier” majors NU does? Do they dissuade most athletes from pursuing more difficult majors (for every Patrick Ward there is Colter interested in going pre-med and pushed to Psychology. The same happens with others who end up in Comms, LOC, SESP)? How much does the staff push and how much accountability do they put on the players?

Students have agency when it comes to their education and goals. They are provided with ample resources and are not children. Given that all but 10 graduated I can’t imagine that the coaching staff is saying education doesn’t matter or they don’t have to go to class. I want all students to graduate, but how hard does the school need to push/tutor a kid who gets the opportunity of a lifetime but isn’t interested?

Sorry I brought in DUKE because as we know, they play more games getting athletes in than Standford and NU do so it is probably unfair to include them in the discussion.

A lot might also depend on the period of time that the study covered as at the end of his tenure, Shaw's teams were not doing well. Stanford tends to get kids from across the country (as do we but the distances can be greater and Covid issues might have been involved as well as reasons for transferring

 

[Gatabowl]

Sorry I brought in DUKE because as we know, they play more games getting athletes in than Standford and NU do so it is probably unfair to include them in the discussion.

Yeah — and also, if they are bringing in guys that are good at sports and ultimately don’t want to put the work into school to graduate… that’s kind of on them. We are not exactly talking about Duke admitting the Derrick Roses of the world who got a sub-21 ACT three times in a row or whatever it was. If you try, you can graduate. Cs get degrees.

 

[hdhntr1]

So you’re saying the wins were only produced by the players and the loses were all the fault of the coaches? I would give some credit to the coaches for the two ten win seasons. They did develop those players. We are handicapped by our admission policies and it is not easy getting players. Failure to find the right QB candidates led to an issue after Thorson. We were relying on Hunter to be the man and he turned out to be the deer in the headlights. I fault the coaches for not having a good plan B when it became obvious that Hunter was gun shy. But just like any team, you need a competent QB to win. Ramsey and Bryant were not 5-star studs but they knew what they were doing. Hopefully Braun and Lujan can get that out of Wright while developing the QBs that they recruited.

I think we are getting a bit carried away by trying to make the coaching sound like a complete failure. You need players and coaches to have competency to win 10 games twice. I agree that McCall lost his way as well as a bad job by the entire staff in recruiting but there were some good years in there.

It was three 10 win seasons plus a couple 9 win seasons including 2018 (BIG W Champion) with McCall as OC. In fact we had winning records 9 of his 12 seasons

 

[hdhntr1]

The trips to the Championship games were primarily due to the D and playing in the B1GW.

Pair those historically great D's with an average to above average O and may have won the B1G, as well as the West a couple more times.

That's the difference Iowa fans have with your outlook.

They bemoan not having had a better O to go with their D, which prevented them from achieving more.

And the key difference between the Chickenhawks and the Cats is that despite all their ineptitude on O, they didn't keep losing to lower level teams, much less Dook during their losing streak.

That's the reason why the Cats continue to be not taken seriously.

Teams go to those games and it took everyone working together to get that done

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Yeah — and also, if they are bringing in guys that are good at sports and ultimately don’t want to put the work into school to graduate… that’s kind of on them. We are not exactly talking about Duke admitting the Derrick Roses of the world who got a sub-21 ACT three times in a row or whatever it was. If you try, you can graduate. Cs get degrees.

You think sub-21 is the litmus test? Ba hahahahaha.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

You think sub-21 is the litmus test? Ba hahahahaha.

12-14

 

[Gatabowl]

You think sub-21 is the litmus test? Ba hahahahaha.

fair point. He had a hard time getting into Memphis so it was likely a lot lower…

 

[hdhntr1]

12-14

Could not sign his name?

 

[Katatonic]

1/3 of Dook's FB recruits just have to meet the minimum NCAA standard (unless they changed it).

Imagine that it's probably as loose (if not more so) for BB.

 

[hdhntr1]

1/3 of Dook's FB recruits just have to meet the minimum NCAA standard (unless they changed it).

Imagine that it's probably as loose (if not more so) for BB.

I think they got even more flexible with the one and dones. I mean the FB players have to actually make it to the second year

 

[hdhntr1]

So you’re saying the wins were only produced by the players and the loses were all the fault of the coaches? I would give some credit to the coaches for the two ten win seasons. They did develop those players. We are handicapped by our admission policies and it is not easy getting players. Failure to find the right QB candidates led to an issue after Thorson. We were relying on Hunter to be the man and he turned out to be the deer in the headlights. I fault the coaches for not having a good plan B when it became obvious that Hunter was gun shy. But just like any team, you need a competent QB to win. Ramsey and Bryant were not 5-star studs but they knew what they were doing. Hopefully Braun and Lujan can get that out of Wright while developing the QBs that they recruited.

I think we are getting a bit carried away by trying to make the coaching sound like a complete failure. You need players and coaches to have competency to win 10 games twice. I agree that McCall lost his way as well as a bad job by the entire staff in recruiting but there were some good years in there.

McCall has been bashed around here a lot. According to some of the people here, he never did anything right and we only won in spite of him. IMO, he deserved a lot more credit for our success than that. But his job was to build his O as part of the program to work with other parts that put us in a position to win and that he did. Unfortunately at the end it was time for him to go as poor QB recruiting made it hard to continue being successful.

By the way it was 3 10 win seasons under McCall. Plus there were also a couple 9 win seasons as well

 

[hdhntr1]

You mean Ramsey?

And much better? We were still below average on offense and I believe even bottom quartile. I suppose that’s better than near dead last.

In the only stat that rally matters. Wins and losses

 

[hdhntr1]

I want to apologize to the board for my rant on graduation rate.

Edit: I removed the rest of my original post here because I felt is was not appropriate.i know people don’t change their minds even when presented with data, so I’ll just end the conversation.

In general it is because data provided is often incomplete

 

[phatcat]

QB recruiting

And development. A lot of that is on him. During his tenure, NU recruited 2 QBs (3 when I include Colter) that turned into anything. Colter might have been recruited before him, ICR.

The next best? Brendan Sullivan. That's the drop off.

 

[mickbula]

Isn't McCall the winning est oc in nu history?

 

[hdhntr1]

Except games aren't won and lost on ypg. In his 12 seasons he got "near" 400 ypg 7 of 12 times - 2009-2013 and 2016-17.

2009-2013 were pre-B1G West; the yards/play and scoring ranks in those seasons were bottom half of the conference in 2009, 2010 and 2013. 2011 had a 4th-ranked ypp and 5th-ranked scoring, while 2012 (prime Colter/Siemian/Mark) had bottom half ypp and was the only season where we scored >30ppg, which was also the only time we finished top-3 in conference under McCall.

2016-17 were the prime Thorson/Jackson years, and even then in 2016 we were bottom half in ypp and scoring, while 2017 had us 6th in ypp and 4th in scoring at 29ppg. Perhaps if Thorson doesn't blow his ACL in 2017, 2018 also reaches these heights as well, but that's not what happened.

Outside of those two years in the B1G West, McCall's other 4 offenses (2014-15, 2018-19) finished in the bottom 25% in ypp and scoring each year. I also doubt it's a coincidence that Fitz deciding to move away from the spread to a more "traditional" offense when the new divisions were created resulted in this offensive futility.

The only stat that truly matters is wins and losses and 9/12 seasons with McCall had 6 wins or more during regular season. These also included 3 overall 10 win seasons 2 9 win seasons etc. His Os paired well with the rest of the program to help deliver those seasons.

And if numbers went down because we went away from the spread because Fitz decided to go that way, why then is McCall blamed for lower producing O? Again wins and losses are the important stat and if it helped accomplish that, then he was still doing his job.

 

[hdhntr1]

And development. A lot of that is on him. During his tenure, NU recruited 2 QBs (3 when I include Colter) that turned into anything. Colter might have been recruited before him, ICR.

The next best? Brendan Sullivan. That's the drop off.

QB is a tougher position to evaluate since in general only one usually plays. For example Alviti was a solid recruit but an untimely injury derailed his career. There was more recruiting success than just two (not a lot more as we had some empty classes and guys that did not work out) under him and reasonable development of a number of guys as well. In the end, he was pretty much done in by the guy out of Colorado. I don't think Sullivan was even his recruit but rather Jakes as he 2021 recruiting class

 

[mickbula]

QB is a tougher position to evaluate since in general only one usually plays. For example Alviti was a solid recruit but an untimely injury derailed his career. There was more recruiting success than just two (not a lot more as we had some empty classes and guys that did not work out) under him and reasonable development of a number of guys as well. In the end, he was pretty much done in by the guy out of Colorado. I don't think Sullivan was even his recruit but rather Jakes as he 2021 recruiting class

Did McCall recruit persa?

 

[hdhntr1]

Did McCall recruit persa?

I believe that Persa was Walker's last QB recruit (he was in class of 2007 but recruiting started under Walker) McCall did not get here till after as his first year as OC was 2008. He had a lot to do with developing Persa, Kafka and Bacher and did well with all three but did not recruit them. Over all, it would seem reasonable to rate him as weaker at QB recruiting (or at least inconsistent) but would have to rate him as reasonably strong at QB development

 

[Just Gary]

I believe that Persa was Walker's last QB recruit (he was in class of 2007 but recruiting started under Walker) McCall did not get here till after as his first year as OC was 2008. He had a lot to do with developing Persa, Kafka and Bacher and did well with all three but did not recruit them. Over all, it would seem reasonable to rate him as weaker at QB recruiting (or at least inconsistent) but would have to rate him as reasonably strong at QB development

Who recruited Thorson?

I’m am truly asking as I am not sure.

How would you rank all the OC since 1993? This is again an honest question because we tend to bash our offensive coordinators. We had some great seasons under Fitz so I think the OCs deserve credit. I just don’t know how to determine a fair system. I would think the criteria would be wins and losses, bowl game appearances, complimentary football, recruiting, development, objective/selevcive split, and good/bad luck. Just set one set of criteria, assign points (some you can allow zero points) and stick to your system for all the OC. It is hard to fairly rank when the criteria keeps changing. If you feel you must include Walker and otters, that is fine as long as you include the on field success and bowl record/success because that is the ultimate measure (again distribute the points as you see fit. Please make the total points add up to 100 and you can use fractions. No negatives.

And if you don’t like my rules in the rules for this “bored in summer”? Create your own and apply it to all the OCs since 1993.

 

[Eurocat]

I vaguely recall us having a terrific offense the year Garrick McGee was OC. But he like to throw the ball as I remember and I think coach Fitz was happier with more of a ball-control, slow the game down type of game. But I could be wrong.

 

[FeralFelidae]

I vaguely recall us having a terrific offense the year Garrick McGee was OC. But he like to throw the ball as I remember and I think coach Fitz was happier with more of a ball-control, slow the game down type of game. But I could be wrong.

The starting QB under McGee was CJ Bacher, who was definitely more of a gunslinger.

 

[EvanstonCat]

The only stat that truly matters is wins and losses and 9/12 seasons with McCall had 6 wins or more during regular season. These also included 3 overall 10 win seasons 2 9 win seasons etc. His Os paired well with the rest of the program to help deliver those seasons.

And if numbers went down because we went away from the spread because Fitz decided to go that way, why then is McCall blamed for lower producing O? Again wins and losses are the important stat and if it helped accomplish that, then he was still doing his job.

Stop it. Just stop it.

Iowa won the B1G West last year. That doesn’t mean Brian Ferentz wasn’t the same caliber of OC as Mick McCall presiding over god awful offenses.

 

[hdhntr1]

Who recruited Thorson?

I’m am truly asking as I am not sure.

How would you rank all the OC since 1993? This is again an honest question because we tend to bash our offensive coordinators. We had some great seasons under Fitz so I think the OCs deserve credit. I just don’t know how to determine a fair system. I would think the criteria would be wins and losses, bowl game appearances, complimentary football, recruiting, development, objective/selevcive split, and good/bad luck. Just set one set of criteria, assign points (some you can allow zero points) and stick to your system for all the OC. It is hard to fairly rank when the criteria keeps changing. If you feel you must include Walker and otters, that is fine as long as you include the on field success and bowl record/success because that is the ultimate measure (again distribute the points as you see fit. Please make the total points add up to 100 and you can use fractions. No negatives.

And if you don’t like my rules in the rules for this “bored in summer”? Create your own and apply it to all the OCs since 1993.

He, Alviti, Siemina and Colter were all recruited by and under McCall. As far as OCs deserving credit when Fitz was HC, there is basically McCall and the 2020 season under Jake where we had successful seasons. McGee not so much. Maybe if he had stayed but his O led to a good number of turnovers while he was here

Going back to 93? Was Barnett as HC also OC in 1995-6? Cannot really find anything. For the most part it was an O (strong OL) that paired with a top D and was big on the run with DA gaining as much running the ball as Schnurr threw the ball 1785 and 1792 for Schnurr passing. Got a little more balance in 96 but while D coordinator listed nothing for OC.

Other than those, the others were associated with Walker and that included Kevin Wilson who together with Walker put together the spread. But part of being prolific was that we had no D. He is likely number one generating a lot of yds and points but not sure he would have matched well with the strong D centered team we went to under Fitz and Hank. Still reasonable to put him #1 But he was also known as an ass. Other than that I probably put McCall, especially since he meshed so well with the D centered team. I liked Dunbar could put him on par with McCall but he left after RW passed Sorry to see him go. McGee never really showed that much here but only here for a couple years. So overall, Wilson probably 1st, Dunbar and McCall about even at #2 and McGee and Jake similar behind.

 

[hdhntr1]

Stop it. Just stop it.

Iowa won the B1G West last year. That doesn’t mean Brian Ferentz wasn’t the same caliber of OC as Mick McCall presiding over god awful offenses.

Sorry but McCall put together a lot of good years here. Ferentz, not really in the same ballpark

 

[hdhntr1]

I vaguely recall us having a terrific offense the year Garrick McGee was OC. But he like to throw the ball as I remember and I think coach Fitz was happier with more of a ball-control, slow the game down type of game. But I could be wrong.

Lot of ups and downs. Lot of turnovers, 19 int for . We did not really win with him as OC. Maybe with time but not in the years he was here. Dunbar was much better and so was McCall

 

[Just Gary]

I vaguely recall us having a terrific offense the year Garrick McGee was OC. But he like to throw the ball as I remember and I think coach Fitz was happier with more of a ball-control, slow the game down type of game. But I could be wrong.

McGee did run a

He, Alviti, Siemina and Colter were all recruited by and under McCall. As far as OCs deserving credit when Fitz was HC, there is basically McCall and the 2020 season under Jake where we had successful seasons. McGee not so much. Maybe if he had stayed but his O led to a good number of turnovers while he was here

Going back to 93? Was Barnett as HC also OC in 1995-6? Cannot really find anything. For the most part it was an O (strong OL) that paired with a top D and was big on the run with DA gaining as much running the ball as Schnurr threw the ball 1785 and 1792 for Schnurr passing. Got a little more balance in 96 but while D coordinator listed nothing for OC.

Other than those, the others were associated with Walker and that included Kevin Wilson who together with Walker put together the spread. But part of being prolific was that we had no D. He is likely number one generating a lot of yds and points but not sure he would have matched well with the strong D centered team we went to under Fitz and Hank. Still reasonable to put him #1 But he was also known as an ass. Other than that I probably put McCall, especially since he meshed so well with the D centered team. I liked Dunbar could put him on par with McCall but he left after RW passed Sorry to see him go. McGee never really showed that much here but only here for a couple years. So overall, Wilson probably 1st, Dunbar and McCall about even at #2 and McGee and Jake similar behind.

The NU record for the best offensive production in a single season is 6003 yards, averaging over 500 yards per game with Dunbar as OC. Of course we also had Colby’s Swiss cheese defense which holds the record for worse defense giving up 5760 yards. That was Basanez’s senior year and Tyrell Sutton’s freshman year. We went 7-5 but there were not enough bowl games for Big Ten teams.

It will always be a question of whether it is personnel or coaching and the real answer is that it is both.

 

[FeralFelidae]

McGee did run a

The NU record for the best offensive production in a single season is 6003 yards, averaging over 500 yards per game with Dunbar as OC. Of course we also had Colby’s Swiss cheese defense which holds the record for worse defense giving up 5760 yards. That was Basanez’s senior year and Tyrell Sutton’s freshman year. We went 7-5 but there were not enough bowl games for Big Ten teams.

But we played in the Sun Bowl.

 

[Just Gary]

But we played in the Sun Bowl.

Sorry I got my years mixed up. Senior moment. It was 2007 when we did not go to a bowl game.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Sorry I got my years mixed up. Senior moment. It was 2007 when we did not go to a bowl game.

It's also easy to forget that the (normal) regular season used to consist of 11 games. A 12th game was awarded if an away game was played in Hawaii, but as we found out in 2004, 7 wins would be needed for a bowl game in that instance.

 

[Katatonic]

The only stat that truly matters is wins and losses and 9/12 seasons with McCall had 6 wins or more during regular season. These also included 3 overall 10 win seasons 2 9 win seasons etc. His Os paired well with the rest of the program to help deliver those seasons.

And if numbers went down because we went away from the spread because Fitz decided to go that way, why then is McCall blamed for lower producing O? Again wins and losses are the important stat and if it helped accomplish that, then he was still doing his job.

How much of that was due to Hank's D?

Disagree that his O paired well, as his Read&React scheme required an experienced QB; which is why the Cats pretty much never had a young frosh/RS come in and be anything other than a glorified RB (with the exception of Siemian in spot duty), and were completely lost when the starter went down to injury.

But not only did his scheme require an experienced QB, it also required the players around the QB to be on the same page - which is why we pretty much never saw a young, inexperienced WR come in and be an impact contributor.

Otoh, we have seen young, inexperienced players come in (whether it is due to injury or graduation) and make an instant impact in Hank's defense.

I believe that Persa was Walker's last QB recruit (he was in class of 2007 but recruiting started under Walker) McCall did not get here till after as his first year as OC was 2008. He had a lot to do with developing Persa, Kafka and Bacher and did well with all three but did not recruit them. Over all, it would seem reasonable to rate him as weaker at QB recruiting (or at least inconsistent) but would have to rate him as reasonably strong at QB development

Persa still has his letter from Walker, which was written not long before coach passed.

Where's the proof that McC had a lot to do in developing Kafka and Persa?

Had previously linked a no of articles where the 2 credited (quite effusively at that) Basanez for their marked improvements as a passer.

Kafka is pretty far removed from his time at NU, and yet this recent article still mentions Baz (nothing about McC).


At Northwestern, he became an NFL prospect after spending hours working with former Wildcats quarterback Brett Basanez — in order to stop throwing line-drive passes. Basanez, then in the NFL, had Kafka stand near the goal post and “bend” throws over it, to create arc. Kafka listened. He pounded away at every rep, “always wanting to do it right,” Basanez said.

How a guy who ‘doesn’t like B.S.’ breathed life into Giants’ offense with Steve Harvey jokes and ‘Jackass’ clips

New York Giants offensive coordinator Mike Kafka has helped transform quarterback Daniel Jones — and has become a hot head coaching candidate.

www.nj.com

And it wasn't just improving mechanics, both Kafka and Persa had stated in previous articles that Baz really helped them in the mental aspects (arguably more important) of the game, such as making quicker and better decisions, ball placement, etc.

The one QB that McC can take credit for in developing is Thorson, but despite 5 years in the program (4 as a starter), Thorson never achieved that high level of decision making a QB with all his experience should have.

Now, do agree that Fitz played a large role in the O turtling, but can't say McC's O was complementary when there were way too many times when the O not only had trouble scoring, but had difficulty moving the ball (it's not "ball control" when there were way too many instances of 3 and out).

 

[Just Gary]

How much of that was due to Hank's D?

Disagree that his O paired well, as his Read&React scheme required an experienced QB; which is why the Cats pretty much never had a young frosh/RS come in and be anything other than a glorified RB (with the exception of Siemian in spot duty), and were completely lost when the starter went down to injury.

But not only did his scheme require an experienced QB, it also required the players around the QB to be on the same page - which is why we pretty much never saw a young, inexperienced WR come in and be an impact contributor.

Otoh, we have seen young, inexperienced players come in (whether it is due to injury or graduation) and make an instant impact in Hank's defense.






Persa still has his letter from Walker, which was written not long before coach passed.

Where's the proof that McC had a lot to do in developing Kafka and Persa?

Had previously linked a no of articles where the 2 credited (quite effusively at that) Basanez for their marked improvements as a passer.

Kafka is pretty far removed from his time at NU, and yet this recent article still mentions Baz (nothing about McC).


At Northwestern, he became an NFL prospect after spending hours working with former Wildcats quarterback Brett Basanez — in order to stop throwing line-drive passes. Basanez, then in the NFL, had Kafka stand near the goal post and “bend” throws over it, to create arc. Kafka listened. He pounded away at every rep, “always wanting to do it right,” Basanez said.

How a guy who ‘doesn’t like B.S.’ breathed life into Giants’ offense with Steve Harvey jokes and ‘Jackass’ clips

New York Giants offensive coordinator Mike Kafka has helped transform quarterback Daniel Jones — and has become a hot head coaching candidate.

www.nj.com

And it wasn't just improving mechanics, both Kafka and Persa had stated in previous articles that Baz really helped them in the mental aspects (arguably more important) of the game, such as making quicker and better decisions, ball placement, etc.

The one QB that McC can take credit for in developing is Thorson, but despite 5 years in the program (4 as a starter), Thorson never achieved that high level of decision making a QB with all his experience should have.

Now, do agree that Fitz played a large role in the O turtling, but can't say McC's O was complementary when there were way too many times when the O not only had trouble scoring, but had difficulty moving the ball (it's not "ball control" when there were way too many instances of 3 and out).

The only place I would disagree was in his ability to manage the two QB system in 2012 . It was really the only time I can recall a true sharing of the QB position with both quarterbacks doing a great job. McCall manage to use both QBs effectively along with effective running with Venric Marks and Trumpy. Those were all his recruits and you have to give him credit for their development . I’m not saying things were perfect but he managed to use their talents effectively. I still remember the feeling of finally getting that bowl victory and the best part was sharing it with people on this board in the Jacksonville parking lot after the game against Mississippi State. It would be easy to look back on that 10 win season and feel like we should have done more but at the time it felt so impressive. That was the best balance we ever had with both offense and defense contributing. I think it set the standard of our expectation and really what we want as a base line (not the two QB position but the equal contribution of offense and defense that created a winning attitude).

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

How much of that was due to Hank's D?

Disagree that his O paired well, as his Read&React scheme required an experienced QB; which is why the Cats pretty much never had a young frosh/RS come in and be anything other than a glorified RB (with the exception of Siemian in spot duty), and were completely lost when the starter went down to injury.

But not only did his scheme require an experienced QB, it also required the players around the QB to be on the same page - which is why we pretty much never saw a young, inexperienced WR come in and be an impact contributor.

Otoh, we have seen young, inexperienced players come in (whether it is due to injury or graduation) and make an instant impact in Hank's defense.






Persa still has his letter from Walker, which was written not long before coach passed.

Where's the proof that McC had a lot to do in developing Kafka and Persa?

Had previously linked a no of articles where the 2 credited (quite effusively at that) Basanez for their marked improvements as a passer.

Kafka is pretty far removed from his time at NU, and yet this recent article still mentions Baz (nothing about McC).


At Northwestern, he became an NFL prospect after spending hours working with former Wildcats quarterback Brett Basanez — in order to stop throwing line-drive passes. Basanez, then in the NFL, had Kafka stand near the goal post and “bend” throws over it, to create arc. Kafka listened. He pounded away at every rep, “always wanting to do it right,” Basanez said.

How a guy who ‘doesn’t like B.S.’ breathed life into Giants’ offense with Steve Harvey jokes and ‘Jackass’ clips

New York Giants offensive coordinator Mike Kafka has helped transform quarterback Daniel Jones — and has become a hot head coaching candidate.

www.nj.com

And it wasn't just improving mechanics, both Kafka and Persa had stated in previous articles that Baz really helped them in the mental aspects (arguably more important) of the game, such as making quicker and better decisions, ball placement, etc.

The one QB that McC can take credit for in developing is Thorson, but despite 5 years in the program (4 as a starter), Thorson never achieved that high level of decision making a QB with all his experience should have.

Now, do agree that Fitz played a large role in the O turtling, but can't say McC's O was complementary when there were way too many times when the O not only had trouble scoring, but had difficulty moving the ball (it's not "ball control" when there were way too many instances of 3 and out).

Good article on Kafka. Had no idea his mom's parents were Puerto Rican "immigrants."
I enjoyed your comments as well.
I can't agree with you that because Kafka worked with Basanez that McCall deserves no credit for Kafka's development.
The fact is that we had a pretty good run under McCall and that he gets at least some credit for every success.

 

[hdhntr1]

McGee did run a

The NU record for the best offensive production in a single season is 6003 yards, averaging over 500 yards per game with Dunbar as OC. Of course we also had Colby’s Swiss cheese defense which holds the record for worse defense giving up 5760 yards. That was Basanez’s senior year and Tyrell Sutton’s freshman year. We went 7-5 but there were not enough bowl games for Big Ten teams.

It will always be a question of whether it is personnel or coaching and the real answer is that it is both.

Like I said, I liked Dunbar a lot and was sorry to see him go I think when Fitz was named HC he felt slighted as he had been a HC at a Northern Iowa and here was a young guy with no experience put in front of him and felt he needed to move on. So he went to Cal as OC for a year and then came back to BIG at MINN as OC

 

[hdhntr1]

I vaguely recall us having a terrific offense the year Garrick McGee was OC. But he like to throw the ball as I remember and I think coach Fitz was happier with more of a ball-control, slow the game down type of game. But I could be wrong.

THe 19 INTs Basher threw might have something to do with that

 

[hdhntr1]

You win and lose as a team.

No one really has Os that Frosh or RS Frosh can walk into

You are so intent on giving McCall absolutely no credit for anything. You have to remember that coaches are extremely limited in amount of time they are able to be in contact. The finer points require a lot more time than they are allowed to spend with players. They can recommend things but reality is that the finer points which are often the difference take a lot more time than coaches are allowed. For all we know, McCall may have even recommended Baz