BB Recruiting

[gocatsgo2003]

They are good recruits, but this is not Fab 5 2.0. 3 of the Fab 5 were top 10 recruits. 5 star players, including the #1 recruit in the country (Chris Webber). The other two were 4 stars. And even then, 1 or 2 of the freshmen didn't start, at least not at the beginning or even most of the season.

These guys? Think Law, Falzon, and Benson. Really nice players, but if they end up starting 5 freshmen, we will smoke them.

Recruiting rankings are completely meaningless in this context, even more meaningless than usual. It doesn't matter where the kids are ranked so long as they're sold on the idea of transforming Illini basketball together from the moment they step on campus.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Man, I really want to see Smith don the purple, but this read has me very concerned. These kids are thinking Fab5 2.0. I'm not that familiar with the Illini roster, and don't want to invest the time to check, but is it realistic for these kids to believe they can all come in and start immediately together? Is the talent ahead of them on the roster that weak?

At NU, I can guarantee he doesn't start year 1. But, if he works hard, learns the offense, demonstrates toughness and effort on D, he has every opportunity to earn a spot in the rotation as first guard off the bench. There are minutes to be had for him at 1 when Mac gets rest, and at 2 when Lindsey gets rest and when Lindsey shifts to 3 while Law rests. I could see upwards of 15 - 20 minutes per game available for him as a non-starter. This would DEFINITELY "make an impact as a freshman." Meanwhile, he's jumping into a tourney-ready team with the opportunity to develop without starter's pressure and learn from who should be preseason All B1G PG BMac. Then in year 2 he becomes "the man" and it is his team, as it is currently BMac's team.

Sorry, started making the arguments and couldn't stop. I'm sure Collins has already made this clear to him.

Not so sure he couldn't/wouldn't start either. McIntosh is pretty clearly locked in at the 1 and Pardon at the 5, but Lindsey and Law play more as wings than as ballhandlers. While I have a tough time seeing either of them coming off the bench, Collins could very well decide to go McIntosh, Smith, Law, Lindsey, and Pardon in a small lineup to start the game with Skelly and Falzon (potentially even Ivanauskas) bringing in some size on the second line.

 

[Max_Power]

We may end up upgrading our list coming off this historic run. It's not early for 2018, but it's not that late either.

The only way for NU to upg

We may end up upgrading our list coming off this historic run. It's not early for 2018, but it's not that late either.

EvanstonCat, the current list does not have much room for upgrading. The three I listed are rated
Per Rivals - No. 22, Dosunmu (Morgan Park), No. 63 Cormac Ryan and No. 66 Dwanye Cohill. Scout has them as Nos. 29, 59 and 60 with Ryan and Cohill switched. The other offers are right around these three. I focus on these guys because Dosunmu and Ryan have visited NU and Cohill has been a target for a few years. Any combo of 2 of these three would be historic for NU.

 

[scru]

Not so sure he couldn't/wouldn't start either. McIntosh is pretty clearly locked in at the 1 and Pardon at the 5, but Lindsey and Law play more as wings than as ballhandlers. While I have a tough time seeing either of them coming off the bench, Collins could very well decide to go McIntosh, Smith, Law, Lindsey, and Pardon in a small lineup to start the game with Skelly and Falzon (potentially even Ivanauskas) bringing in some size on the second line.

Not sure the rotations work out very well with this lineup. Not enough guard and wing talent to backup the starters, unless Ash and Brown make major steps in the offseason.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Not sure the rotations work out very well with this lineup. Not enough guard and wing talent to backup the starters, unless Ash and Brown make major steps in the offseason.

Gaines seems physically ready to contribute at the back end of the rotation as well.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

There are minutes to be had for him at 1 when Mac gets rest, and at 2 when Lindsey gets rest and when Lindsey shifts to 3 while Law rests. I could see upwards of 15 - 20 minutes per game available for him as a non-starter. This would DEFINITELY "make an impact as a freshman." Meanwhile, he's jumping into a tourney-ready team with the opportunity to develop without starter's pressure and learn from who should be preseason All B1G PG BMac.

Not to mention the always latent probability of injury, which may affect any of those mentioned. Everyone hopes they never happen, but everyone knows they almost always do...more often than anyone wishes (especially at certain program ;-)).

 

[corbi296]

Tilmon is likely a non qualifier at any school so you can forget about an NU offer. Smith is a classic combo guard and could easily start next year in the lineup GCG outlined. Law would slide over to play the 4 and assume more of a Sanjay like blue collar/jack of all trades role with less of a need for him to score which I think is more consistent with his natural skill set. As far as a successor to Mac, I think having the ability to offer up a gauranteed starting role to a high caliber 2018 PG is the best strategy. The kid from Morgan Park is a legit star and could instantly be an impact starting PG for NU in 2018.

 

[willycat]

Or hang on to the scholarships for 2018 if you think your recruiting will be better overall. Fill 2017/18 roster with grad transfers, which should also be an easier recruiting sell now.

Ok, I can see going for grad transfers, if they fill needs at guard and C/PF. But if a kid like Smith or his equivalent comes available, get them.

 

[willycat]

Tilmon is likely a non qualifier at any school so you can forget about an NU offer. Smith is a classic combo guard and could easily start next year in the lineup GCG outlined. Law would slide over to play the 4 and assume more of a Sanjay like blue collar/jack of all trades role with less of a need for him to score which I think is more consistent with his natural skill set. As far as a successor to Mac, I think having the ability to offer up a gauranteed starting role to a high caliber 2018 PG is the best strategy. The kid from Morgan Park is a legit star and could instantly be an impact starting PG for NU in 2018.

Has he cleared admissions at Illinois?

 

[scru]

Tilmon is likely a non qualifier at any school so you can forget about an NU offer. Smith is a classic combo guard and could easily start next year in the lineup GCG outlined. Law would slide over to play the 4 and assume more of a Sanjay like blue collar/jack of all trades role with less of a need for him to score which I think is more consistent with his natural skill set. As far as a successor to Mac, I think having the ability to offer up a gauranteed starting role to a high caliber 2018 PG is the best strategy. The kid from Morgan Park is a legit star and could instantly be an impact starting PG for NU in 2018.

I guess I'd just prefer to have a PG with a year under his belt leading the team than a true frost. I believe it will lead to greater program consistency.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

As far as a successor to Mac, I think having the ability to offer up a gauranteed starting role to a high caliber 2018 PG is the best strategy. The kid from Morgan Park is a legit star and could instantly be an impact starting PG for NU in 2018.

Morgan Park's Ayo seems to be a consensus 4-star. His offer list is impressive. However, none of the schools that have offered him seems like head-and-shoulder above NU (no Duke-type behemoth). Illy is the only other B1G school that has offered (Wisky might in the future), and probably is the toughest competitor in this case.

 

[Alan Smithee]

As far as a successor to Mac, I think having the ability to offer up a gauranteed starting role to a high caliber 2018 PG is the best strategy. The kid from Morgan Park is a legit star and could instantly be an impact starting PG for NU in 2018.

This is the question for me regarding bringing in a grad transfer next year (presumably not a PG, obviously): cost/benefit of adding a quality grad transfer vs bringing in an heir apparent in 17-18

I guess I'd just prefer to have a PG with a year under his belt leading the team than a true frost. I believe it will lead to greater program consistency.

And even out the recruiting classes a bit. For the reason you mentioned that would be my preference as well. But the staff knows the lay of the land with respect to the quality of obtainable targets for this year vs next year.

 

[willycat]

This is the question for me regarding bringing in a grad transfer next year (presumably not a PG, obviously): cost/benefit of adding a quality grad transfer vs bringing in an heir apparent in 17-18

And even out the recruiting classes a bit. For the reason you mentioned that would be my preference as well. But the staff knows the lay of the land with respect to the quality of obtainable targets for this year vs next year.

I remember list of possible 5th year transfers being posted on this site previously. Wonder if that can be done again or is to early to speculate seeing that the season isn't over.

 

[NJCat]

This is the question for me regarding bringing in a grad transfer next year (presumably not a PG, obviously): cost/benefit of adding a quality grad transfer vs bringing in an heir apparent in 17-18

Actually, bringing in a grad transfer (assuming he has just 1 year of eligibility, not like the 2 FB guys) has no impact on the scholarship count in 2017-18......so huge benefit at zero cost!

 

[willycat]

Morgan Park's Ayo seems to be a consensus 4-star. His offer list is impressive. However, none of the schools that have offered him seems like head-and-shoulder above NU (no Duke-type behemoth). Illy is the only other B1G school that has offered (Wisky might in the future), and probably is the toughest competitor in this case.

View embedded media

Seems that he loves to drive and also a good passer. His shot almost like a old fashioned push shot. Height?

 

[Medill90]

Not so sure he couldn't/wouldn't start either. McIntosh is pretty clearly locked in at the 1 and Pardon at the 5, but Lindsey and Law play more as wings than as ballhandlers. While I have a tough time seeing either of them coming off the bench, Collins could very well decide to go McIntosh, Smith, Law, Lindsey, and Pardon in a small lineup to start the game with Skelly and Falzon (potentially even Ivanauskas) bringing in some size on the second line.

Law doesn't have the body to start at the 4 and you wouldn't waste that quickness at the 4. It'll more likely be Falzon back at the 4 next year with Skelly as a darkhorse.

A wild card is Benson. If he continues to improve how does he get more time on the floor. Might he play a little 4 next to Pardon?

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Seems that he loves to drive and also a good passer. His shot almost like a old fashioned push shot. Height?

I wonder about his shot also. Wouldn't it be too ez to block in a B1G environment? Obviously for a completely uncontested shot that isn't a problem, but often 3P attempts are contested to a greater or lesser extend.

He's listed as 6-4, so that should help against the above point.
The highlights, like most, show nothing of his D ability (or lack of, if applicable), although I suspect that is more teachable than other aspects.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

If law runs the 4 which I highly doubt he will he better put on some muscle. He's better suited for the 3 and with Falzon Skelly and RI I don't see him getting many min there. Smith would probably steal brown ash and Gaines min and give us the ability to sub out Lindsey or BMac if they got cold if he's as good as I'm hearing here. I honestly think any freshman coming in with this team the best they could do would be solid role player min. This team is deep

 

[Medill90]

Seems that he loves to drive and also a good passer. His shot almost like a old fashioned push shot. Height?

Here's my reaction to the video....Jesus, Mary and Joseph is the Chicago Public League competitive

 

[Medill90]

I wonder about his shot also. Wouldn't it be too ez to block in a B1G environment? Obviously for a completely uncontested shot that isn't a problem, but often 3P attempts are contested to a limited degree.
He's listed as 6-4, so that should help against the above point.
The highlights, like most, show nothing of his D ability (or lack of, if applicable), although I suspect that is more teachable than other aspects.

He can release it from anywhere. His shot isn't a problem.

 

[corbi296]

Has he cleared admissions at Illinois?

No. If he had, I would not have made that comment.

As it relates to Ayo, the reality is there are very few PG with a year of college experience because the great ones leave after a year or two to go pro. I believe Ayo is of that caliber. As highly recruited as he is, I think he is currently being underrated.

Lastly, as it relates to Law playing the 4, of course that is not his ideal position and it would create some match up problems on the defensive end. The reality is that today's game is more of a perimeter game and most teams are fielding lineups with only one true post player. Given this, I don't think the defensive match up problem would be as significant an issue and certainly may be fully mitigated by the advantages presented on the other end where Law could have a field day being guarded by a true power forward. It would become a battle of which team could impose it's style on the other.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

No. If he had, I would not have made that comment.

As it relates to Ayo, the reality is there are very few PG with a year of college experience because the great ones leave after a year or two to go pro. I believe Ayo is of that caliber. As highly recruited as he is, I think he is currently being underrated.

Lastly, as it relates to Law playing the 4, of course that is not his ideal position and it would create some match up problems on the defensive end. The reality is that today's game is more of a perimeter game and most teams are fielding lineups with only one true post player. Given this, I don't think the defensive match up problem would be as significant an issue and certainly may be fully mitigated by the advantages presented on the other end where Law could have a field day being guarded by a true power forward. It would become a battle of which team could impose it's style on the other.

And it's not like Falzon is really a bruiser either... he has some size to him as well, but is more of a perimeter player himself. He's only listed as ten pounds heavier and an inch taller than Law.

 

[clarificationcat]

Tilmon is likely a non qualifier at any school so you can forget about an NU offer. Smith is a classic combo guard and could easily start next year in the lineup GCG outlined. Law would slide over to play the 4 and assume more of a Sanjay like blue collar/jack of all trades role with less of a need for him to score which I think is more consistent with his natural skill set. As far as a successor to Mac, I think having the ability to offer up a gauranteed starting role to a high caliber 2018 PG is the best strategy. The kid from Morgan Park is a legit star and could instantly be an impact starting PG for NU in 2018.

Law is going to have to put on a lot weight to start guarding the other team's 4. And it seems like that's not the best use of use defensive skills. I am guessing that Smith, if he's really as good as people think, will come off the bench and spell Law and Lindsey and could be on the floor at the end of games.

 

[clarificationcat]

And it's not like Falzon is really a bruiser either... he has some size to him as well, but is more of a perimeter player himself. He's only listed as ten pounds heavier and an inch taller than Law.

He's not a bruiser but he's probably much better positioned to try to guard the other team's 4 than chase around the other team's 3. He's probably not going to be a good defender at either position but it seems better to weaken one of the positions than both.

 

[DonatelloCat]

It seems that it'd be rare that an applicant be admited with fewer than 2 years of work experience, and the average is near 5 years.

I would certainly think that 4 years at a major college program even if one was spent red-shirting would have to count as 4 years of work experience. You do marketing (think of all those video-board promos the players do), competitive strategizing, public relation (media interviews), decision-making often under extreme pressure, and working as part of a team. It wouldn't be hard for Kellogg to convince itself that a basketball-playing grad student is a perfectly reasonable admit, if it were so inclined.

You can find an angle to justify just about anything, I suppose. But if I am a Kellogg student, honestly, I'm interested in talking to the star athlete just as a sports fan . . .but I don't know that I would value that person's perspective in classroom discussions when it comes to the "business world."

 

[scru]

He's not a bruiser but he's probably much better positioned to try to guard the other team's 4 than chase around the other team's 3. He's probably not going to be a good defender at either position but it seems better to weaken one of the positions than both.

I think writing off his defensive abilities based on freshman year performance is very premature. Look at how BMac, Skelly, Lindsey have all developed in this discipline. Based on his performance this year, would you write off Brown as a defender as well? Why not give the kids and our coaches a chance and the benefit of the doubt at this point? Falzon is coming back as a junior (redshirt soph) with two full offseasons in the program to develop, a year sitting out learning not to take the game for granted (a la Law) and likely very eager to get back on the court after missing out on this year's show. I think a Law-esque jump from freshman to junior in confidence, system understanding, skill, and strength is not unrealistic for Aaron. I'm excited to see him on the court again.

 

[clarificationcat]

I think writing off his defensive abilities based on freshman year performance is very premature. Look at how BMac, Skelly, Lindsey have all developed in this discipline. Based on his performance this year, would you write off Brown as a defender as well? Why not give the kids and our coaches a chance and the benefit of the doubt at this point? Falzon is coming back as a junior (redshirt soph) with two full offseasons in the program to develop, a year sitting out learning not to take the game for granted (a la Law) and likely very eager to get back on the court after missing out on this year's show. I think a Law-esque jump from freshman to junior in confidence, system understanding, skill, and strength is not unrealistic for Aaron. I'm excited to see him on the court again.

I am excited to see him on the court again as well and I didn't write him off. I said that I didn't think he would be a good defender at either position. If he can be an average defender and rebounder with his shooting ability, he will be a big asset. I hope I am wrong but I didn't think he had the athleticism of the players you mentioned and he will be undersized defending the 4. If he ends up being a good defender, I will happily acknowledge how wrong I was. But again, I don't think he needs to be a good defender to be a good player.

 

[NUCat320]

Law doesn't have the body to start at the 4 and you wouldn't waste that quickness at the 4. It'll more likely be Falzon back at the 4 next year with Skelly as a darkhorse.

A wild card is Benson. If he continues to improve how does he get more time on the floor. Might he play a little 4 next to Pardon?

+1
Didn't Falzon start every game at the 4 as a freshman? I see him doing the same - and making the Law Leap with a year of observation under his belt.

 

[NJCat]

+1
Didn't Falzon start every game at the 4 as a freshman? I see him doing the same - and making the Law Leap with a year of observation under his belt.

From the NU media guide.....

"Saw action in all 32 games, making 29 starts ... Hit 63 3-pointers, the second most ever by a Northwestern Freshman, trailing only Sean Wink (86)."

63 3's would have led NU this season (Law had 60).

 

[GOUNUII]

Tilmon is likely a non qualifier at any school so you can forget about an NU offer. Smith is a classic combo guard and could easily start next year in the lineup GCG outlined. Law would slide over to play the 4 and assume more of a Sanjay like blue collar/jack of all trades role with less of a need for him to score which I think is more consistent with his natural skill set. As far as a successor to Mac, I think having the ability to offer up a gauranteed starting role to a high caliber 2018 PG is the best strategy. The kid from Morgan Park is a legit star and could instantly be an impact starting PG for NU in 2018.

Corbi ... you may be right about Dosunmu but I have my doubts. I see a high IQ player with great length and confidence. I also see a player with less than pedestrian foot speed, no strength and a not yet ready for college shot. A legit HS star for sure. But not what you typically envision of a player with a top 25 ranking. Not anywhere close to that. Same for Cohill. That kid is explosive but extremely raw on the skill side and, like Ayo, extremely thin. I don't think either of these prospects are close to what David Duke is. That kid is an immense talent that hasn't received a rating. So much for ratings.

There is a reason Dosunmu and Cohill are regional recruits with less than the best offers within their own region. I think it's because places like Wisconsin and Purdue and Michigan and others have scouting reports similar to mine.

GOUNUII

 

[EvanstonCat]

The only way for NU to upg


EvanstonCat, the current list does not have much room for upgrading. The three I listed are rated
Per Rivals - No. 22, Dosunmu (Morgan Park), No. 63 Cormac Ryan and No. 66 Dwanye Cohill. Scout has them as Nos. 29, 59 and 60 with Ryan and Cohill switched. The other offers are right around these three. I focus on these guys because Dosunmu and Ryan have visited NU and Cohill has been a target for a few years. Any combo of 2 of these three would be historic for NU.

You're not thinking large enough. Top 10 recruits. 5 stars. Guys we'd be competing Coach K and Duke for. And who can take us to the heights of Duke in the past. I want them.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

You're not thinking large enough. Top 10 recruits. 5 stars. Guys we'd be competing Coach K and Duke for. And who can take us to the heights of Duke in the past. I want them.

Real fans want it more, right?

 

[Sec.112]

FYI, Dosunmu broke his foot this weekend in the state semi-final. He was on crutches for the finals.

It will be interesting to see how that effects his summer as well as his offers. From afar, he seems like the level of player where it might not affect his status much.

OTOH, I'm sure many schools will be more conservative with him. It could play into NU's hands. Lindsey is a great testament for Collins in this type of situation.

 

[scru]

You're not thinking large enough. Top 10 recruits. 5 stars. Guys we'd be competing Coach K and Duke for. And who can take us to the heights of Duke in the past. I want them.

I hope CCC stays away from the one and done guys in the top 10. I actually think Duke has lost their way in recent years since Coach K started getting in on this trend. I also think the results show. I'd prefer to develop guys in the system, frankly not unlike those CCC has recruited to date. If CCC can break thru on high 4* talent such as Smith and Dosunmu, and these guys stay in the program for four years and leave with a degree and NBA opportunities, I think it is best for all involved. I firmly believe this will lead to the program consistency we need at this stage in our development.

I also believe it is way too early in the programs development to think NU would really be a destination for top 10 one and done types. Who was our last NBA lottery pick?

 

[corbi296]

Corbi ... you may be right about Dosunmu but I have my doubts. I see a high IQ player with great length and confidence. I also see a player with less than pedestrian foot speed, no strength and a not yet ready for college shot. A legit HS star for sure. But not what you typically envision of a player with a top 25 ranking. Not anywhere close to that. Same for Cohill. That kid is explosive but extremely raw on the skill side and, like Ayo, extremely thin. I don't think either of these prospects are close to what David Duke is. That kid is an immense talent that hasn't received a rating. So much for ratings.

There is a reason Dosunmu and Cohill are regional recruits with less than the best offers within their own region. I think it's because places like Wisconsin and Purdue and Michigan and others have scouting reports similar to mine.

GOUNUII

I'll grant you that his outside shooting is inconsistent but when I saw him live against Simeon, I saw a kid that was wiry strong and a kid who could get to the hole against any guy they put on him. The last Illinois PG I saw dominate a game like that was Tyler Ullis and he has turned out to be pretty good even though he was under appreciated until late into his senior year. Ayo is that kind of player but obviously is not handicapped by height like Ullis is.

 

[GOUNUII]

I'll grant you that his outside shooting is inconsistent but when I saw him live against Simeon, I saw a kid that was wiry strong and a kid who could get to the hole against any guy they put on him. The last Illinois PG I saw dominate a game like that was Tyler Ullis and he has turned out to be pretty good even though he was under appreciated until late into his senior year. Ayo is that kind of player but obviously is not handicapped by height like Ullis is.

I loved Tyler the first time I saw his film. Had the skill set of a lottery pick.

GOUNUII

 

[FeliSilvestris]

I don't think either of these prospects are close to what David Duke is. That kid is an immense talent that hasn't received a rating. So much for ratings.

If we are talking about Mass' David Duke he is a 3-star by several services. His ratings are likely to improve (<--), tough. One site is already reporting a KANSAS offer, while predicting he will wind up at Providence.