Sorry if I missed this, but is recruiting done for next year? I see one recruit, but we are losing two seniors, so wondering what is our status for the future? Thanks for any insights.
BB Recruiting
- Thread starter NUinIowafan
- Start date
Not done. But, pickins are slim. We are in a battle with Illini, IU, Butler for Mark Smith, a stud 6'4" highly athletic scoring PG from Edwardsville, IL. Really hard to read what he is thinking at this point, but he could be a real big indicator that NU is here to stay were he to choose the Cats. He's a front runner for Illinois POY. There's a chance that the coaching changes around the country lead to some decommits that could become targets for CCC. IU has two signees with offers from NU. Maybe??? Then there are grad transfer opportunities. CCC can clearly make a case now that they could come in and join a tourney-ready team while earning a top top tier grad degree.
Bottom line, I don't think Gaines will be the only new player on the team next season. But, we'll see. CCC seems firm on not bringing kids into his program that will not see the court. I'm sure he'd prefer to carry over schollies to the 2018 class than pick up some "reaches" in 2017 just to fill up the roster.
Bottom line, I don't think Gaines will be the only new player on the team next season. But, we'll see. CCC seems firm on not bringing kids into his program that will not see the court. I'm sure he'd prefer to carry over schollies to the 2018 class than pick up some "reaches" in 2017 just to fill up the roster.
Question for the assembled smart folks: Say I have graduated from an NCAA accredited institution, red-shirting my freshman year and then playing 3 years. Now let's say I would like to go to Kellogg to get a Masters of Management. Let's further suggest that I challenged myself reasonably in undergraduate classes within the confines of my full-time job as a Division 1 P5 major college basketball. Imagine my grades were pretty good for all of that. Imagine my GREs are good, but nowhere near the median for Kellogg acceptees. Imagine I have no interest in the "Sports Management" graduate degree. I recognize I will be very young for Kellogg applicants. What are the Kellogg admission requirements? What happens if Coach Collins wants me to play? What happens when my coursework conflicts with practice time? Is the scholarship only good for the 1 year I am eligible to play basketball? Any help would be appreciated.
I have no actual knowledge on this but I remember reading that transfers who have done well in college have a little more wiggle room for admissions than they did coming out of High School. This makes sense because they have proved some level of academic competency after HS. What Kellogg's requirements are I have no idea but the athletic department must have some little bit of influence or more.
I have also noticed that Grad schools in general (and again I have no idea about Kellogg) can be less hide bound and more creative in what they count as qualifications so for example a guy who started his own company and was very successful might get admitted based on demonstration of success in his life experience. I knew a guy who got into a grad program with out even going to undergrad. He was a tribal leader in Kenya or someplace and had shown great leadership with his people. I'm sure the goals there were different than Kellogg's but the principal of exemplary performance might apply for some people.
I have minimal inside information. An obvious observation is that the standardized test normally used by MBA-type programs is the GMAT as opposed to the GRE.
HERE is some official info about enrolled KGSM students.
It seems that it'd be rare that an applicant be admited with fewer than 2 years of work experience, and the average is near 5 years. Minority enrollment seems high, close to 1/4. They seem to offer a one-year program for those who qualify.
I'd be skeptical that the typical athletic grad transfer would be a good fit for Kellogg, and that the academic demands of the school would fit well with those of the BkB program. But who knows.
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Maybe not a true point, but seems like he could/would fit the "lead guard" spot that Collins favors.
Per Rivals, NU has offered 2017 3-star PG Jermaine Jackson (Detroit, MI). He is listed as 5'8''!! Nevertheless, he seems to have a decent offer list (GA Tech, Syr, DePaul, among others), which suggests he must do certain things really well.
2017 3-star 6-10 center Jaron Faulds (Holt, MI) has drawn interest from NU but no offer yet. His offer list seems to include mostly MAC schools, plus Cornell and DePaul. Per other sites, he is verbally committed to Columbia. @lou v
FWIW, 7-0 245 F RS-Fr Dante Williams intends to transfer from KSU, and may still be available. Out of HS he was 4-star and had an offer from Vandy (among others, including Purdue), which suggests he might qualify academically at NU. No idea if there are signs of mutual interest.
I've watched Jermaine play a dozen or so times over the past two seasons. He is a teammate of Thomas Kithier, a 6-8 junior committed to Michigan State. Their high school team is frustrating to watch because they are oozing with talent but are so poorly coached.
Jackson is probably 5-9. He's basically a shorter version of Isiah Brown but with a better jumpshot. Plays the point for his high school team but is a shoot first point guard.
If he wants playing time, he'd be better off going to Toledo or one of the MAC schools in Michigan.
I don't have a lot of faith that a 5'8" guy is going to be able to produce much in the B1G but if he is still growing, he could get to 5'11 or so before college. I grew about 6 inches my senior year, but I was young too, I was only 17 when I went away to college. I would never encourage parents to push their kids ahead in school by the way.
It seems that it'd be rare that an applicant be admited with fewer than 2 years of work experience, and the average is near 5 years.
I would certainly think that 4 years at a major college program even if one was spent red-shirting would have to count as 4 years of work experience. You do marketing (think of all those video-board promos the players do), competitive strategizing, public relation (media interviews), decision-making often under extreme pressure, and working as part of a team. It wouldn't be hard for Kellogg to convince itself that a basketball-playing grad student is a perfectly reasonable admit, if it were so inclined.
I would certainly think that 4 years at a major college program even if one was spent red-shirting would have to count as 4 years of work experience. You do marketing (think of all those video-board promos the players do), competitive strategizing, public relation (media interviews), decision-making often under extreme pressure, and working as part of a team. It wouldn't be hard for Kellogg to convince itself that a basketball-playing grad student is a perfectly reasonable admit, if it were so inclined.
Try convincing the powers-that-be at Kellogg. May be worth a try, but I wouldn't predict success.
One could also argue that getting a college degree at a reputable institution involves a HUGE amount of work and should count as 4 years of work experience. Something tells me that is NOT how they define it. But I've never been involved rating Kellogg's applicants.
Smith is not a point guard or a shooting guard -- he's just a player. In the sectional final vs. Danville he had 45 points, including numerous three-pointers and dunks. He'd be a tremendous addition at any position 1 through 3. I also expect Isiah Brown to grow into more minutes and more productivity.
I think Brown's shooting from distance will be much better next year. The big part of that is sophomore confidence but he'll also add a little strength which will help.
Next year is BMacs last year....so you would hope who ever is going to play point will be on the team next year to gain some experience. Question is if Brown is a point guard and if so is he a different type of point guard than BMAC. Northwestern has done really well when there Assist over turnover ration is good(I know could be said for anybody) Isiah Brown seems to have great offensive ability but somehow it is different than BMACs. I am guessing that CC and the boys have already figured out where Brown fits in and that will have a lot to do with who they recruit.
Mark Smith was named Gatorade Player of the Year in Ilinois. What really stands out to me is that he averaged over 8 rebounds AND 8 assists a game -- a lot of versatility there.
http://www.bnd.com/sports/high-school/prep-basketball/article139590768.html
http://www.bnd.com/sports/high-school/prep-basketball/article139590768.html
What stands out to me is that in another, recent, newspaper article Smith mentions "academics" as part of his criteria. (hoping, fingers crossed)
Based on the sentiment he express in this article I'd say he was an Illini lock before Groce was fired and is still a strong lien if the other recruits stay onboard.
http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/...3-15/smith-i-was-disappointed-see-him-go.html
I don't know about that.
You must be referring to this:
Smith said he’s talked to the four Illinois Class of 2017 signees — Trent Frazier, Da’Monte Williams, Javon Pickett and Jeremiah Tilmon — since Groce’s firing, and they’re still discussing heading to Illinois together. And in the end, his conversations with Groce about heading to Illinois still linger.
“We just talked about what I could do for Illinois, what I could do in the state of Illinois,” Smith said about his conversations with Groce. “They have a great recruiting class, and I could come in and play point guard.
“They have a lot of good recruits: Trent, Da’Monte, Javon and Jeremiah. (Groce) said I could help run it, because Trent is such a good scorer, Da’Monte is a good scorer, Javon is good at getting to the rim, Jeremiah is really good in the post and athletic. He said so many things I could do.”
Certainly, that recruiting class and the rapport he may have built with them so far will be a consideration and one that may be a strong factor for Illinois. However, in all his recruiting articles, he talks about the fact that the relationship with the coach is key. The reason the Illini were in the driver's seat was entirely because of Groce. He was very close to him. Groce was the first coach to give him love. He mentions Groce as the guy who first paid attention to him before everyone else followed. He talked or texted him every day. He was Smith's closest relationship.
“Coach Groce and I talked every day,” Smith said. “I’m going to call him soon and tell him I thought he did a great job at Illinois.
“I really like Coach Groce. I wanted to play for Coach Groce. I like my other schools, too. I like Coach Collins, I like Coach Crean, I like everyone else who’s recruiting me, I like Coach Matta, Coach Miles. I like coach Groce a lot, too, and I was disappointed to see him go.”
Smith, whose stock took a dramatic rise this year after decommitting from Missouri’s baseball team, said he’d give the new Illinois coach, whoever it may be, a chance to build a relationship with him. But that doesn’t mean his condensed recruiting process will stop.
“I’ve still got to focus on my other recruiting until they get a head coach,” he said. “I guess who I’ve built a strong relationship with, that’s who I’m going to go with. I’m going to visit the schools who are my top choices, who are the schools who are most important to me."
If I read that correctly, I'd say the Illini just fell back into the pack and may have just lost him altogether. I don't know how Underwood builds anything like the same relationship, in this short time period. He'll try, but now Illinois just gave a ton of breathing room to Collins. If anything, if Groce ends up at another school, they may have a better chance than the Illini.
The next two coaches he mentioned were Collins and Crean. Crean's gone too. We may be in the driver's seat. Especially after what happened during the NCAA run. The other thing worth mentioning, is that he places a big emphasis on a coaching's staff ability to develop him and bring him into the next level. Coach Collins has that in spades, especially against someone like Underwood. He was a point guard himself. What he's done for BMac. His time at Duke, having coached Team USA. Brian James. Underwood has one year at OSU and then Stephen F. Austin. Whoop de do.
The one thing we have going against us, is that he can't come in and be our starting PG next year as ironically, another big factor for him is to go where he can have immediate impact.
“I kind of feel like I have an opportunity to develop because I know I’m going to get a good education. I’m going to try to develop and come in and make an impact as a freshman.”
But, he might be able to come in and play next to BMac with this whole "lead guard" concept. If Collins can convince him that he has this opportunity, we may have a shot. Collins is a great recruiter. Illinois has given him an opening. Let's see if he can close the deal.
Not terribly surprising that the hometown paper paints a bright picture for the hometown team...
I don't follow BBall recruiting nearly as closely as I do football, but Smith seems like a hard read to me. Part of that is the unique "late riser" story that we don't see much on the basketball side, but he also seems pretty vague in interviews and when asked about his process.
That said... my goodness would I be excited if he came to NU. Seems like the kind of lynchpin recruit we need to take the next step to consistently compete for championships.
I've also read some articles indicating that Jamall Walker (assistant coach and current interim head coach) is the real connection to Smith, as well as Tilmon and other Illini recruits. Underwood reportedly plans to keep Walker on staff, which could improve the Illini's position a touch even after the head coaching change.
Fair enough. I doubt that Walker was a more important relationship than Groce. In all the articles I read, it was Groce this, Groce that. I'm sure Walker has a strong relationship now with Smith and if they retain Walker, I imagine that would help, and like I said I think the other recruits are a big factor.
But, I don't know that any of this can make up for the loss of Groce. You don't commit to a team because of an assistant. The head coach relationship is far more crucial in hoops than in football. If nothing else, it gave us a window, whereas before I think he was destined to be an Illini. Certainly, I don't think Underwood can talk as much as Groce or Crean about developing guards to the next level. Meanwhile, though the one IU article dismissed NU for it, Chris Collins was a PG and has worked with a ton of guards at Duke (BMac came in part because his favorite player was JJ Reddick), and no one else has worked with Kobe, Steph Curry, and Derrick Rose and the others who played for Team USA. Let's see if CCC can close.
Smith would be a great get for NU but honestly, next years class is the key. As much as I like Smith, I'd be very pleased with any 2 of the nine guards NU has offered for 2018 and I'd love to see Ayo Dosunmu (Morgan Park), Cormac Ryan and Dwanye Cohill of that group end up at NU.
It's been reported that Tilmon might be reconsidering and has done so before. Hey, maybe NU could hire Groce as a assistant if one of the current guys gets a HC job somewhere else. Just kidding, sort of.
We may end up upgrading our list coming off this historic run. It's not early for 2018, but it's not that late either.
Exactly, as they need to fill the two open schlorship spots for next season and then will have at least 3 scholarships to offer for 2018.
While I see what you're saying, assistant coaches seem to have outsize influence in college basketball recruiting. It's not at all atypical to see a guy get hired as an assistant and "magically" have recruits follow him; Jordan Goodwin ending up at a truly dreadful SLU program after they hired his AAU coach is just one example.
That's different. Walker wasn't Smith's AAU coach. And I haven't seen any articles with him mentioning Walker. It was Groce, Groce, Groce, Groce. He loved Coach Groce.
Coach Groce is gone. He still may be Illini, but I think we have a chance now. It helps that two of the other head coaches with whom he had built a strong relationship have been fired.
I understand it's different, but still speaks to the influence an assistant coach can have in major college basketball recruiting.
Man, I really want to see Smith don the purple, but this read has me very concerned. These kids are thinking Fab5 2.0. I'm not that familiar with the Illini roster, and don't want to invest the time to check, but is it realistic for these kids to believe they can all come in and start immediately together? Is the talent ahead of them on the roster that weak?
At NU, I can guarantee he doesn't start year 1. But, if he works hard, learns the offense, demonstrates toughness and effort on D, he has every opportunity to earn a spot in the rotation as first guard off the bench. There are minutes to be had for him at 1 when Mac gets rest, and at 2 when Lindsey gets rest and when Lindsey shifts to 3 while Law rests. I could see upwards of 15 - 20 minutes per game available for him as a non-starter. This would DEFINITELY "make an impact as a freshman." Meanwhile, he's jumping into a tourney-ready team with the opportunity to develop without starter's pressure and learn from who should be preseason All B1G PG BMac. Then in year 2 he becomes "the man" and it is his team, as it is currently BMac's team.
Sorry, started making the arguments and couldn't stop. I'm sure Collins has already made this clear to him.
They are good recruits, but this is not Fab 5 2.0. 3 of the Fab 5 were top 10 recruits. 5 star players, including the #1 recruit in the country (Chris Webber). The other two were 4 stars. And even then, 1 or 2 of the freshmen didn't start, at least not at the beginning or even most of the season.
These guys? Think Law, Falzon, and Benson. Really nice players, but if they end up starting 5 freshmen, we will smoke them.
Or hang on to the scholarships for 2018 if you think your recruiting will be better overall. Fill 2017/18 roster with grad transfers, which should also be an easier recruiting sell now.
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