Been thinking this for the last week or so .....

[Max_Power]

The basketball program has come a long way. We are at the point where we are all pissed off about losing to a 20 win UCLA team (UCLA is a blue blood) by 4 with 2 of the top three players for NU out for the season.

Yes, I think that NU has legit complaints about the officials. I agree with many that the refs do not give NU the credit it deserves and that in big games, NU does not get the benefit of the calls. I also think this will change and here is why - Collins coaches tough defensive minded teams. As he has slowly built this program, he has been able to increase both the athleticism and skill levels of the players. Windham and Ciaravino are next level athlettes. Mullins is also really athletic and has become a solid defender. Martinelli is Robbie Hummel athletic - not great but there. Of the film I have watched, the recruits look more on par with Windham and Ciaravino ( I have not been able to get a read on Gill bc there is not much film on him but I am assuming he will be on par with Berry who is very underrated) than prior recruits.

Hopefully, Collins can supplement this group in the portal and NU will be right there again next year.

Also, I think that NU has a solid shot at the Crown Tourney based on the NET ranking in the 50s so this season is not dead yet.

 

[Davidgolds5]

Different note, but has there been a more endearing player on the cats than Keenan? Instant energy. And he has been quite productive. Would have been nice to have seen more of him earlier in the season.

 

[SmellyCat]

I think about it too Max. The floor - and our expectations - are so much higher now.

 

[Jonny2TheP]

Different note, but has there been a more endearing player on the cats than Keenan? Instant energy. And he has been quite productive. Would have been nice to have seen more of him earlier in the season.

Fitzmorris is one of those guys where if he is on the other team, you hate him...and it's great having a guy like that on our team!

 

[Hungry Jack]

That left-handed jam he threw down vs Iowa was electrifying. WRA went nuts when he hit that jumper near the baseline last night. Love his attitude.

 

[Kat burglar]

I rejoined the NU bball fan club when Collins was hired and he recruited Vic Law. I thought that if we could regularly be better than 50 in Kenpom we would have a sustainable program. Back then I would scream at the TV and kick the dog when we were down. I was worried when we were up 10 points with 2 mins left.

Now my blood pressure is down and actually think we still have a chance if we are down 10 with 2 mins left. Love the grit. Love the team. Love the board and the people who post here. Thank you.

Time to raise my sights!

 

[GatoLouco]

The athleticism of the NU players pre Collins was significantly lower than it is now. We can complain about disparities we see today, but it's night and day. And that was the immediate impact Collins had. Arguably the most important as, without it, we might as well go back to gimmicky offenses to masquerade none of our guys can dunk...
.
.
.
Cough
.
.
.
Princeton offense
.
.
.
Cough

 

[DaCat]

Overall point taken and I love Collins, but let’s not forget Shurna won a slam dunk contest AND a three point contest AND a B1G scoring title. Coble and Crawford won B1G Freshman of the Year awards. Carmody won Coach of the Year. It wasn’t all bad.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Overall point taken and I love Collins, but let’s not forget Shurna won a slam dunk contest AND a three point contest AND a B1G scoring title. Coble and Crawford won B1G Freshman of the Year awards. Carmody won Coach of the Year. It wasn’t all bad.

Carmody did a pretty good job considering how hamstrung he was by the crappy facilities.
His style of play, obviously his choice, made recruiting tougher too.
And he was no charismatic dynamo - kids probably thought NU had sent a professor to discuss academic admission requirements.
Luckily he was able to get some guys from Europe who probably didn't care about all of the above.

Good coach who struggled to bring in players.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

The athleticism of the NU players pre Collins was significantly lower than it is now. We can complain about disparities we see today, but it's night and day. And that was the immediate impact Collins had. Arguably the most important as, without it, we might as well go back to gimmicky offenses to masquerade none of our guys can dunk...
.
.
.
Cough
.
.
.
Princeton offense
.
.
.
Cough

Can we have the 1-3-1 zone back too? With Juice or Sobo under the basket?

 

[NUera]

Good coach who struggled to bring in players.

Yup. Billy C gets way too much shade on this board. Perfect coach to shepherd us out of the dumpster fire left by “hotshot” Kevin O’Neill when he suddenly left us with a roster so bad dudes were transferring to culinary school. Carmody stabilized the program and introduced legitimate expectations, even if he couldn’t meet them. I’m grateful for his time here.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

Carmody did a pretty good job considering how hamstrung he was by the crappy facilities.
His style of play, obviously his choice, made recruiting tougher too.
And he was no charismatic dynamo - kids probably thought NU had sent a professor to discuss academic admission requirements.
Luckily he was able to get some guys from Europe who probably didn't care about all of the above.

Good coach who struggled to bring in players.

I've told this story before but I ran into Carmody and his wife in the TSA line at Newark Airport. He was going to announce the signing of a big recruit - he turned out to be literally big - Chier Ajou. Carmody could not have been nicer. He was also ecstatic about his recruiting coup. Recruiting...his biggest weakness.

Too bad he didn't get Frank Kaminsky instead.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Yup. Billy C gets way too much shade on this board. Perfect coach to shepherd us out of the dumpster fire left by “hotshot” Kevin O’Neill when he suddenly left us with a roster so bad dudes were transferring to culinary school. Carmody stabilized the program and introduced legitimate expectations, even if he couldn’t meet them. I’m grateful for his time here.

Carmody was a perfect bridge coach. Unfortunately, he stuck around for about a decade after that bridge had been built and couldn't get us across it. How's that for extending a metaphor beyond all reasonable expectations?

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Carmody was a perfect bridge coach. Unfortunately, he stuck around for about a decade after that bridge had been built and couldn't get us across it. How's that for extending a metaphor beyond all reasonable expectations?

You took that bridge a bit too far.

 

[CatJones]

Carmody was a perfect bridge coach. Unfortunately, he stuck around for about a decade after that bridge had been built and couldn't get us across it. How's that for extending a metaphor beyond all reasonable expectations?

Our basketball Moses!

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

Carmody did a pretty good job considering how hamstrung he was by the crappy facilities.
His style of play, obviously his choice, made recruiting tougher too.
And he was no charismatic dynamo - kids probably thought NU had sent a professor to discuss academic admission requirements.
Luckily he was able to get some guys from Europe who probably didn't care about all of the above.

Good coach who struggled to bring in players.

Not disagreeing with this, but if Carmody is a good coach what’s that make Collins?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Carmody was a perfect bridge coach. Unfortunately, he stuck around for about a decade after that bridge had been built and couldn't get us across it. How's that for extending a metaphor beyond all reasonable expectations?

I don't know about that.
His teams slowly improved, then he reached NIT 4 years in a row, then one disastrous year of injuries and NU fired him.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Not disagreeing with this, but if Carmody is a good coach what’s that make Collins?

Collins is certainly a much better recruiter with better facilities.
Beyond that its just opinion.

 

[Davidgolds5]

I’d like to see some kind of nu carmody appreciation night. He was a big part of the program for a long time. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him at a game. Curious if his relationship with Nu is decent. Not suggesting a jersey be hung, but certainly a little plaque or something on the wall!

 

[NUera]

Not disagreeing with this, but if Carmody is a good coach what’s that make Collins?

NU’s GOAT. And it’s not up for debate.

 

[Davidgolds5]

Yes NU should just lock this guy down for good. Build him a statue, raise a banner for the guy, make it impossible (and/or uncomfortable for the guy to leave)

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

NU’s GOAT. And it’s not up for debate.

Your opinion is duly noted. Wouldn't want to debate you about your opinion.

I'll go with Dennis Grady.

Oh wait, you said its not up for debate.

How about this - Chris Collins is definitely our greatest coach since Carmody...

Although, sadly, he's also our worst coach since Carmody.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

NU’s GOAT. And it’s not up for debate.

Careful you will be the third member of the “cult”.

Edit: maybe it’s up to 5 members now.

 

[Smolmania]

I've told this story before but I ran into Carmody and his wife in the TSA line at Newark Airport. He was going to announce the signing of a big recruit - he turned out to be literally big - Chier Ajou. Carmody could not have been nicer. He was also ecstatic about his recruiting coup. Recruiting...his biggest weakness.

Too bad he didn't get Frank Kaminsky instead.

Maybe if he'd been in Evanston when Kaminsky visited campus he could have? Kaminsky would have been awesome at the top of the key in the Princeton offense.

 

[phatcat]

Different note, but has there been a more endearing player on the cats than Keenan? Instant energy. And he has been quite productive. Would have been nice to have seen more of him earlier in the season.

Collins looked like a genius when he subbed out Matty for Fitz. Like "can't stop the tall guy anyway, might as well get some offense from the 5 spot. "

 

[hdhntr1]

The athleticism of the NU players pre Collins was significantly lower than it is now. We can complain about disparities we see today, but it's night and day. And that was the immediate impact Collins had. Arguably the most important as, without it, we might as well go back to gimmicky offenses to masquerade none of our guys can dunk...
.
.
.
Cough
.
.
.
Princeton offense
.
.
.
Cough

It has its place, The big difference in the athleticism is that we can now play D. We are still behind most teams but it has gotten closer to where coaching can win those games that they couldn't when the disparity was bigger

 

[NUCat320]

I don't know about that.
His teams slowly improved, then he reached NIT 4 years in a row, then one disastrous year of injuries and NU fired him.

The talent had stopped coming, tho. And he did get hamstrung by, as I recall, a two-year extension.

In consecutive years, he got Coble-Thompson-Shurna-Crawford. Four legendary Cats, one per season.

Cobb had a checkered career and then didn’t live up to expectations as the only guy in his class. Then it was Demps-Sobo — Demps wasn’t really any good until he was a fourth-year player (I didn’t remember, but he redshirted) and Sobo was Sobo. Olah and Sanjay were productive enough players, but NU’s window was closed. Taphorn was the only commit when Carmody was fired.

His last team was hurt by injuries, but its key players included by an unrecruited walk-on (Hearn) and a grad transfer (Swopshire). It was no longer sustainable.

Man, I love Carmody. His comments after the fateful, Coble-less Italy trip were amazing (not actual quotes, but correct in spirit): “It was a good trip for the guys. We played some pretty good talent. And then there’s, that, uh, bonding or whatever.”

The PO was playing for threes and dunks (or layups) before anybody else did the math.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

The talent had stopped coming, tho. And he did get hamstrung by, as I recall, a two-year extension.

In consecutive years, he got Coble-Thompson-Shurna-Crawford. Four legendary Cats, one per season.

Cobb had a checkered career and then didn’t live up to expectations as the only guy in his class. Then it was Demps-Sobo — Demps wasn’t really any good until he was a fourth-year player (I didn’t remember, but he redshirted) and Sobo was Sobo. Olah and Sanjay were productive enough players, but NU’s window was closed. Taphorn was the only commit when Carmody was fired.

His last team was hurt by injuries, but its key players included by an unrecruited walk-on (Hearn) and a grad transfer (Swopshire). It was no longer sustainable.

Man, I love Carmody. His comments after the fateful, Coble-less Italy trip were amazing (not actual quotes, but correct in spirit): “It was a good trip for the guys. We played some pretty good talent. And then there’s, that, uh, bonding or whatever.”

The PO was playing for threes and dunks (or layups) before anybody else did the math.

Absence sure makes the heart grow fonder. I couldn’t make through a season with those Carmody teams!

 

[EagerFan]

I've always been a Carmody fan, especially on the heels of O'Neill, of whom I have nothing good to say. I'm also a Collins fan, and find it interesting how many folks seem unable to appreciate both of them for who they are/were and what they have accomplished for NU over the years.

I am looking forward to what next season brings even as I am invested in what this season still holds. I think next year's going to start pretty rocky unless Coach has nothing but cupcakes scheduled in the non-con. Even assuming everyone who is eligible comes back, the team has lost just so much offensive and defensive knowledge and experience that even if some of the freshmen come ready to play, I think we give up a lot of points all year long and scoring will be a challenge. On the positive side, Collins is definitely recruiting players who tend towards the upper middle of the conference when the dust settles and we start seeing the results beyond the HS rankings.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

I think next year's going to start pretty rocky unless Coach has nothing but cupcakes scheduled in the non-con.

No question, it's a rebuilding year after losing 5 contributors, including 4 starters, but I don't think it will be as bad as some of our recent rebuilding years. We have a potential 1st team all-B1G player who knows how to score, and that can cover up a lot of warts.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I've always been a Carmody fan, especially on the heels of O'Neill, of whom I have nothing good to say. I'm also a Collins fan, and find it interesting how many folks seem unable to appreciate both of them for who they are/were and what they have accomplished for NU over the years.

I am looking forward to what next season brings even as I am invested in what this season still holds. I think next year's going to start pretty rocky unless Coach has nothing but cupcakes scheduled in the non-con. Even assuming everyone who is eligible comes back, the team has lost just so much offensive and defensive knowledge and experience that even if some of the freshmen come ready to play, I think we give up a lot of points all year long and scoring will be a challenge. On the positive side, Collins is definitely recruiting players who tend towards the upper middle of the conference when the dust settles and we start seeing the results beyond the HS rankings.

I don’t think there are many if any saying Carmody was not an upgrade from the nasty O’Neil. I appreciate he got NU going in the right direction. However, I am not ready to claim he did a great job here at NU. Better than many of the previous Bozo’s, of course. IMO he kept his job way too long. I am not a hater of Carmody by any means, but I am not sure why pointing out his faults is somehow failing to appreciate him.

 

[hdhntr1]

The talent had stopped coming, tho. And he did get hamstrung by, as I recall, a two-year extension.

In consecutive years, he got Coble-Thompson-Shurna-Crawford. Four legendary Cats, one per season.

Cobb had a checkered career and then didn’t live up to expectations as the only guy in his class. Then it was Demps-Sobo — Demps wasn’t really any good until he was a fourth-year player (I didn’t remember, but he redshirted) and Sobo was Sobo. Olah and Sanjay were productive enough players, but NU’s window was closed. Taphorn was the only commit when Carmody was fired.

His last team was hurt by injuries, but its key players included by an unrecruited walk-on (Hearn) and a grad transfer (Swopshire). It was no longer sustainable.

Man, I love Carmody. His comments after the fateful, Coble-less Italy trip were amazing (not actual quotes, but correct in spirit): “It was a good trip for the guys. We played some pretty good talent. And then there’s, that, uh, bonding or whatever.”

The PO was playing for threes and dunks (or layups) before anybody else did the math.

With the lack of athleticism they really couldn't play D When Swopeshire came he looked like he could get them someplace but then he went down and end of season

 

[hdhntr1]

Not disagreeing with this, but if Carmody is a good coach what’s that make Collins?

Carmody was a good O coach but recruiting for him was an afterthought and that always had us on the outside looking in, There was the center from same year (and school, I believe) as Sobo and he wasn't even there for his campus visit,

CCC is a good coach but he values recruiting more, And as powerful as the BIG has become. We have to thank Carmody for what he did for the program giving it stability and a pulse but with the lack of incoming talent we were getting into the same situation as McKeown led Lady Cats are now

 

[EagerFan]

I don’t think there are many if any saying Carmody was not an upgrade from the nasty O’Neil. I appreciate he got NU going in the right direction. However, I am not ready to claim he did a great job here at NU. Better than many of the previous Bozo’s, of course. IMO he kept his job way too long. I am not a hater of Carmody by any means, but I am not sure why pointing out his faults is somehow failing to appreciate him.

Interesting.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

NU’s GOAT. And it’s not up for debate.

Carmody was a good O coach but recruiting for him was an afterthought and that always had us on the outside looking in, There was the center from same year (and school, I believe) as Sobo and he wasn't even there for his campus visit,

CCC is a good coach but he values recruiting more, And as powerful as the BIG has become. We have to thank Carmody for what he did for the program giving it stability and a pulse but with the lack of incoming talent we were getting into the same situation as McKeown led Lady Cats are now

I also believe Collins is the GOAT NU coach. I think he’s objectively a better coach than Carmody, and based on nearly every reasonable metric, he's the best to have done it here. In fact, I consider him one of the best coaches in the B1G. I raised this question to a poster who is very critical of Collins and claims to rely on data, what does saying Carmody is a good coach mean about Collins as a coach when almost every metric points to Collins being the better coach compared to Carmody?

I do think Carmody is a solid coach who was weak at recruiting and that was his downfall. In the big ten you have to be able to recruit. I also think NU couldn’t ask for a better coach than Collins.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I raised this question to a poster who is very critical of Collins and claims to rely on data, what does saying Carmody is a good coach mean about Collins as a coach when almost every metric points to Collins being the better coach compared to Carmody?

And those metrics are?

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

And those metrics are?

Off the top of my head, no other coach surpasses him in more than one of the listed categories:

1.) NCAA Tournament Wins
2.) NCAA Tournament Appearances
3.) All-Time Wins
4.) Wins in a Season

He produced their first winning Big Ten record in almost 50 years and led a team to the most conference wins since before World War II. Given that NU has historically been bad, these achievements, turning the team around and accomplishing things that have never been done at NU before really set him apart in my eyes and most people’s.

Specifically against Carmody he ranks ahead in total wins, conference wins, wins in a season, winning big ten seasons, tournament appearances, tournament wins, and Big Ten finishes.

NU basketball is in a different place due to Coach Collins. I’m sure enjoying the golden era he has ushered in.

Edit: I can’t believe there’s a Carmody vs. Collins discussion in 2025.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Off the top of my head, no other coach surpasses him in more than one of the listed categories:

1.) NCAA Tournament Wins
2.) NCAA Tournament Appearances
3.) All-Time Wins
4.) Wins in a Season

He produced their first winning Big Ten record in almost 50 years and led a team to the most conference wins since before World War II. Given that NU has historically been bad, these achievements, turning the team around and accomplishing things that have never been done at NU before really set him apart in my eyes and most people’s.

Specifically against Carmody he ranks ahead in total wins, conference wins, wins in a season, winning big ten seasons, tournament appearances, tournament wins, and Big Ten finishes.

NU basketball is in a different place due to Coach Collins. I’m sure enjoying the golden era he has ushered in.

Edit: I can’t believe there’s a Carmody vs. Collins discussion in 2025.

If I were choosing metrics, I'd probably look at conference winning percentage.
Aggregate numbers like "Wins in a Season" don't matter - teams play more games now.
"All Time Wins" - the more years you coach, the more wins you get. Not really a good metric.

I said earlier that I thought Carmody was a good coach who struggled to recruit players.
Do you disagree?
Its got nothing to do with Collins - in fact you were the one who made it about Collins.
And I said Collins was a much better recruiter, with better facilities.
Do you disagree?

 

[EagerFan]

Good grief.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

If I were choosing metrics, I'd probably look at conference winning percentage.
Aggregate numbers like "Wins in a Season" don't matter - teams play more games now.
"All Time Wins" - the more years you coach, the more wins you get. Not really a good metric.

I said earlier that I thought Carmody was a good coach who struggled to recruit players.
Do you disagree?
Its got nothing to do with Collins - in fact you were the one who made it about Collins.
And I said Collins was a much better recruiter, with better facilities.
Do you disagree?

Collins is the best coach NU has ever had.

Do you disagree?