We should, but I will be shocked if Collins changes what he wants to do.
He doesn't like to play big.
CC Did Not Lose the Team
- Thread starter catfans5
- Start date
He doesn't like to play big.
How many did we surrender to the 10th ranked team in the nation while using those guys more than usual?
Young and Nicholsons strengths are not defense rn. The score is thanks to turnovers, Beran, Roper, and Audige. Look at MSU’s top scorers based on season avg. Then look who guarded them. Good game plan. Excellent execution by the players.
I did not watch and listened in bits. But the radio guy dropped praise on MN repeatedly on D. And he also drew some important fouls which doesn’t appear in the stat line. I also heard a few compliments about blocking out leading to our Gs cleaning up the boards.
For a backup center, that’s more than I need.
And using Young on the block drags double teams allowing kick outs to the shooters like audidge … and nance when back.
You and PPD may be right. But they have lost plenty in the old system so what’s the harm in rolling it back out. Not like it will sink the season. And sounds like a more watchable game too.
Heck, maybe I will go watch the Cats on the road this season. Plane trip anyone?
You clearly played ball, your comments often make it apparent. But I can’t possibly understand how you keep implying Young is a problem on defense. Defending on the low post is completely different from guarding a player facing the basket. And, more often than not, players who do one well don’t do the other. Young is a solid post defender.
He’s a decent low post defender. He’s not quick enough on help D. He struggles against versatile bigs with range due to athleticism.
Don’t you know this is Thomas Soltau’s burner account? We’re not falling for that Holland misdirect, dude - we know you’re from Denmark! 😂
Nance's matador post defense doesn't impress me.
Nicholson had guys resorting to throwing up hook shots.
Very little of the bullying we have seen Nance absorb in the post.
You know why? Because Nicholson is a lot bigger and a natural 5.
Ryan Young plays solid fundamentals and can't jump, but isn't afraid of contact.
He's no match for Cockburn or Edey, however.
Most centers aren't.
I don’t disagree with what you said. And even thought Bingham was going to be a big problem yesterday because of it. He wasn’t.
Anyway, there’s hardly a versatile big in the B1G since Garza is gone. Dickinson, Cockburn, Edey, Williams, all will abuse everyone and, in our case will abuse Nance more than Young. Curry, Rebraca, Wahl, Harrar, Wahad… don’t see them lighting us from 3.
I think Nance is a better post defender than young. He has better length. He’s a better shot blocker. Better at help defense from the 5. Quick enough to take more athletic bigs as well.
Nicholson let up a lot of points in transition D. 4 fouls in 13 min isn’t the sign of a great post defender yet. Definitely lacks quickness confidence and is raw. However I like the upside on the glass and his willing screens. Needs to get stronger for sure. Definitely has the ability to be at least a serviceable big. Nance is a better post defender than you give him credit for. While yes he needs to get stronger, his length really affects the opponents shot. He also quick enough to stay in front of athletic bigs and play help D from the 5. Young and Nicholson aren’t going to make many plays with help D. I wouldn’t play Nicholson more than foul trouble issues with the bigs. He’s proven himself capable if Nance or Young fall into foul trouble.
We can agree to disagree. I would not seek heavy minutes but I think he’s a capable backup 5. And I’m not looking for a lot help from the 5. Give me 20 min of young, 10 of MN and 10 of we’ll timed small ball to throw a curve.
But I also think young and MN are more willing to block out and allow the guards to clean up.
I agree transition D is tough. Make more baskets.
You didn’t watch the game. How in the world did you see enough of MN to have an opinion at this point? This was his first “major” min and it was just 13 min. My opinion of him isn’t in stone. Just what I saw from those 13 min. That’s not a lot of basketball.
I didn’t. Agreed. Listened to enough with guys paid to describe the action. Formed an opinion. Might be wrong. Might be proved wrong. Might be right. What’s the problem?
Are you really questioning someone's right to an opinion?
Or just telling someone that they really shouldn't have an opinion?
I am quite confident that you, yourself, have expressed a negative opinion of Nicholson, based on absolutely nothing, prior to the MSU game.
So, lets call it the same for both sides, ref.
I think they are six of one, half dozen the other in post defense. Neither is a plus post defender from what I can see. Nance has more quicks. Young has more bulk.
I shouldn’t engage given some of your recent ludicrous takes but screw it.
If you consider not ready yet a negative opinion than so be it. I never said Nicholson couldn’t be good. Never said he wouldn’t be a serviceable big. When I saw him in limited action I thought the game moved to fast for him (mentally). I still think he needs to build confidence. I still think he’s not there yet. 4 fouls 13 min. That doesn’t sound mentally ready yet. He has some upside. Bigs just take longer to develop. I don’t write off NU players or coaches. I also don’t make ludicrous takes about things I have no idea about. I don’t take guesses at chemistry either.
You are probably one of the weaker basketball minds on the board. You hide behind stats you create and adjust to fit your takes. I might not agree with @gatoloco all the time but at least his opinion and takes make some sense. Yours rarely do.
I honestly can’t tell if you’re trolling or truthfully believe the things you post. Either way you have an agenda your pushing and it’s anti Collins. Very pro back up centers. I guess there like back up qb’s. This is probably the biggest obsession since wrassler with Ash. At least wrassler knows he’s over the top and plays into it.
I like the idea of giving MN and Barnhizer a few minutes each game. That’s how they learn and made to feel part of the team. Helps get them ready when injuries or foul trouble crops up. Collins has done a good job of going 10 deep but these two also deserve some time.
It was an absolutely great win and I loved the determination they showed to bring home the win.
It was an absolutely great win and I loved the determination they showed to bring home the win.
You have join the ranks of polarized posters. All he really said is whether it’s wrong for me to share an opinion. But you launch into a personal attack all so common here and in the world.
When did people become so disturbed that people have different opinions…even if they might be wrong. Who knows? We will see more games, stats, info. The guys like me will drag up the old thoughts only because people like you are such hard asses about opinions.
And then, you will accuse me of basking in NU defeat. Not once will you pick up that I’m actually ridiculing you. Because you are oblivious to your bias and being found wrong is non factual, never happened. Nope, you will redirect into more personal attacks.
And the mods will delete threads. And our ability to simply have meaningful discussions without sharing the same opinion will further degrade. Such a beautiful and intellectual world we have created.
Nice call out.
All I can tell you is that I am right a lot more than you are, so figure that into your rant.
If you think I created the concept of "+/-" you are clueless. If you object to me trying to improve on that statistic, thats fine. Stay in your comfort zone. Base your evaluations on what everybody else says.
The backpedaling on Nicholson is to be expected. Lots of people are doing that now, so you're in good company.
I can't help it if you don't have the mental capacity to understand what I am pointing out to you.
Pick anything I have said and prove me wrong.
Yes I called the guy out for cheap argument tactics and he went ballistic and launched a personal attack. Thanks for noticing.
Look at my post history on MN. I said he’s not ready yet. I stand by that. If anything his game gives me hope but proves me right in that he doesn’t offer close to what Young and Nance bring so therefore he shouldn’t get more than spot min if that. I never once said he would never get there.
Heres some responses to some of your old posts
Your chemistry take is baseless.
Using Nance as an example of hero ball is appalling. The guy needs to look for his shot more. He’s the best player.
Using adjusted to 40 min stats with a player who played a grand total of 35 min this season to compare them to top players in the B1G is laughable.
I don’t why you play Barn over Roper at this point in their careers
You have a post claiming Berry is top 3 player on NU but leave off Buie
You took a shot at me first “I listen to people who know their stuff, like Gato. I'll take Steven Bardo's opinion or Robbie Hummel's opinion about our guys instead of nameless fans spouting...” I think I’ve proven Ik my crap about basketball and if you think I don’t that proves my point given your terrible takes.
As for basing my evaluations based on what everyone says, go back in my post history defending lumpkin. He wasn’t loved by the board until after he was gone. This season I’ve been saying Beran is one of our top defenders but I got push back early. Now it’s pretty clear. I think Nance is a better post defender than Young and people disagreed with that.
As far as mental capacity. Just because you don’t realize stats paint a limited picture no matter how much it is explained to you doesn’t mean I have limited mental capacity. I understand their worth but they’re not the end all be all. My argument is always right while yours
I admit if you go back I’ll have some wrong takes but they aren’t near as outlandish as yours.
This isn’t even I disagree with some and I don’t like them because of that scenario. gatoloco and I disagree a lot but I enjoy the debate. You just have terrible takes, are arrogant, can’t stop beating a dead horse.
This needs the context that there has not been a single poster on this board calling for more than spot minutes for MN. Which are a lot more minutes than never being used in a meaningful game.
Holland:
The personal attack you made last night was undignified and cheap.
The example you cite to support a "you started it" argument is a real stretch. All I said was "Gato knows what he is talking about. Robbie Hummel and Steven Bardo know more about basketball than faceless internet chat room people." Somehow you take that as a personal attack? Thats not good.
I use the stats to guide my opinions and enhance my knowledge. I like stats. They are unbiased. The stats often make me question the "conventional wisdom" and group-think that tends to dominate this board. So I throw things out there to try to explain the reality reflected in the stats and the group-thinkers go ballistic. It is uncommon to get a thoughtful response.
Explanations like "We are so unlucky" or "We'd be winning if the guys just did what Coach Chris told them to do" don't hold any water with me.
The Nicholson "per 40 minutes" extrapolation was just to rub it in the faces of those who have denigrated him relentlessly and are obviously completely wrong. The attacks on him were pretty disgusting, going beyond the laziness of "Coach knows best." I don't count you in that group, but there were a lot of internet mean girls doing that and not one has stepped forward to say "Yeah I was totally wrong." They're still hoping he goes back to the bench instead of helping us win games. Some are hoping he transfers, showing their true natures.
At the beginning of the season, I said I thought Nance, Young, Buie and Berry were our four best. I have also said I thought Nance, Young and Buie were our three best. I was hoping Berry would make a big step up. Its only been a little step up, so far. Audige is playing better than Berry, despite the missed shots, because he is doing a lot more defensively.
Obviously I don't think much of CCC's coaching skills. The evidence generally supports my assessment. I want the team to succeed and feel that Collins has brought in plenty of talent lately, but has not gotten enough out of it.
He is questioning the basis of that opinion. And with good reason. Ignore admitted that he did not see ANY of the play and based his opinion strictly on a couple announcer comments
He is 3rd on depth chart and 3rd guy does not get minutes unless the two in front of him are in some way limited. Nance was today so MN got some minutes
He made no personal attack. He did challenge some of the statements you have made but that is a whole lot different than a personal attack.
I have not seen anyone denigrate MN. They have said that he is not ready and based on being down on depth chart has not earned taking minutes from people in front of him. With Nance down, he got some minutes and while he did well enough, but some of his weaknesses showed as well.
I got the feeling that while Audige played really top flight defense he passed off some of those usual "Hero Shots" and the ball found it's way in often via Young.
Can any one sho has a more critical eye for BB collaborate that?
Isn't this the core of the argument? From what I can gather, there are some fans who believe that Nance should be at the four on the depth chart and that the depth chart at the five should be 1) Ryan Young 2) Matt Nicholson.
This response is so classic. If one of us - the klique reports it, begs the mods to kick them, blah, blah,
But if the klique attacks and gets called out (cuz they don't draw timeouts), then the guy attacked is a martyr. The hypocrisy is so blatant that it his SNL comical.
Yeah it is pathetic and some guys just keep doing it, no matter how wrong they are.
Its a matter of integrity, or lack thereof.
Revisionist history.
i don't understand the mindset but I'm glad I'm not that way.
