Clayton vs. KJ (I apologize for beating a dead horse)

[ThatkidfromHolland]

Since it seems to be hotly contested debate on the board I figured I’d give my tape analysis of KJ and Clayton.

Intro:
With Barnhizer and Leach sidelined, Clayton and KJ are now tasked with running the offense. There’s no one else on the roster capable of doing this at the moment. Neither is at the level of Barnhizer or Leach, both offensively or defensively, and they shouldn’t be expected to be. I don’t place much emphasis on who starts, as it's likely symbolic given Clayton’s redshirt status (or lack thereof). What matters is who gets the minutes and is on the court when it counts. Both players are splitting time at the point guard position.

Clayton:
Clayton has a limited ceiling, but with development, he could become a solid floor general, defender, and a fine three-point shooter. He doesn't show the ability to break down defenders off the dribble at this level and lacks the range to hit threes with limited space. At times, he forces the offense. Defensively you can tell he as an extra year in the weigh room compared to KJ, but still has work to do. His switches aren't clean, and his positioning is inconsistent. He’s not quick enough to be an elite defender at this level but has the frame and athleticism to improve into a decent one. He’s essentially a work in progress, and it's clear why he redshirted. This may be his best chance at significant B1G minutes. He did play the best of the two against Washington, although that wasn't much of a benchmark. Level of competition could also be a factor in this.

KJ:
KJ’s ceiling is higher. He’s flashed the ability to break down defenders off the dribble, second only to a healthy Leach on this team in that regard. However, he tends to hold the ball too long, causing the offense to stagnate or forcing a play. He still struggles to play within the offense and is prone to typical freshman mistakes. That said, he’s shown he can create space, hit deep shots off the dribble, and get to/finish at the rim. Defensively, he has a lot of room for improvement, his positioning and footwork need work, and he needs time in the weight room. For example, watch how Thornton drives against KJ, Clayton, and Gello, then compare it to how he fares against Berry. KJ is quick enough and has the frame to improve in these areas within a year or two and has the potential to become a very solid two-way player. Most of his negatives are just things that take time. His development will become clearer next year after a full year in the system, and I’m optimistic about his growth.

Conclusion:
KJ clearly has the higher ceiling and has been playing better recently. However, this season, the difference in play between the two isn’t consistent. We saw Clayton play better, marginally, against Washington and KJ light it up against Oregon and Ohio State. Don’t focus too much on who starts, it’s more important to pay attention to who gets the minutes and finishes the games. Clayton has made a selfless decision, and that deserves recognition. Both will log real minutes going forward, and they'll continue to split time. Hopefully, KJ keeping playing himself into more of the minutes load, even if Clayton keeps starting. Both players are liabilities defensively, but KJ has been more productive offensively and some games it’s not close. The team would be in a much better position with Leach and Barnhizer running the offense, but injuries happen, and players need to step up. There’s no planning for it. The opportunity is there for both KJ and Clayton.

 

[Hkjb]

Though KJ's improvement has been more noticeable/faster, I would add that Clayton is taking and making some shots now. Not a lot, but perhaps enough to keep the defense honest. That opens up spacing and makes our offensive actions work better. The same goes for KJ of course but for the most part we already knew he had offensive potential. In the current context, we need them both and the coaching staff are doing a great job leveraging the talent we have.

 

[SmellyCat]

Clayton is taking and making some shots now.

That's certainly seems like an improvement over last year. I always wanted so badly for him to make anything, if for no other reason than to give him a little confidence, and he never seemed to get there. Turns out he's missed exactly 19 field goals both of the last two years (4-for-23 last year, 8-for-27 this year). On three pointers he's 4-for-14 (after going 1-for-12 last year). So it's a mild improvement.

 

[Davidgolds5]

Not a clayton fan, will agree he has been better than last year but the bar was so low. Majority of his time he is dribbling at top of key and passing to another player also at the top of the key. Maybe his improved showing will convince him that he can successfully transfer elsewhere.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

There must be a reason why they run plays for Clayton early in the game. He can hit the pullup to the right and left of foul line. He doesn't need to shoot a ton. Just enough to ensure his defender can't ignore him.

Windham can hit the stepback 3 off the dribble.

It's fun to see them develop.

 

[Davidgolds5]

The clayton percentages are abysmal. Doesn’t pass the eye test, and the stats don’t lie. I’m a diehard fan, but have to keep it real. The other team is begging for him to shoot the ball.

 

[SimpsonElmwood]

The clayton percentages are abysmal. Doesn’t pass the eye test, and the stats don’t lie. I’m a diehard fan, but have to keep it real. The other team is begging for him to shoot the ball.

Stats: He's 3-7 from 3 in the past 3 games. I'm not saying he's Steph Curry or even Ty Berry but let's see what unfolds.

 

[Davidgolds5]

I like when they fall, but that is just not statistically significant. They are not good shots. Id love to be proven wrong.

 

[hdhntr1]

Not a clayton fan, will agree he has been better than last year but the bar was so low. Majority of his time he is dribbling at top of key and passing to another player also at the top of the key. Maybe his improved showing will convince him that he can successfully transfer elsewhere.

Actually I can see both being important to have next year. They are pretty close this year with KJ starting to get the edge. Will agree that KJ seems to have the higher upside but Clayton could still fill an important role next year. West will likely not be ready yet and having a reasonable backup at PG can be a pretty important piece to have. Especially since as we have seen, injuries happen often and PG is a pretty important position. The other alternative is to bring in a more senior guy through the portal but to be able to do that probably are not going to get them to come to be a backup. Clayton and KJ would look to be a descent tandem. Then if West develops, Clayton could decide to move on as his potential minutes could diminish. And if he is like a lot of our guys, he might already have his degree

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Clayton's biggest problem was on the defensive end for a couple games. Not sure why anybody expects (or wants) him to transfer. He looks significantly better than last year to me. And thats a nice surprise. Who knows if he'll develop further?

I looked up a bunch of recent NU players to see how long it took them to put up a 20 point game against a Big Ten opponent...

Boo Buie did that in his 2nd Big Ten game, but that was his only 20+ pt game as a freshman against the league.
Pete Nance didnt have a 20 point game against a Big Ten team until he was a junior.
Ryan Young never did it.
Nick Martinelli never scored 10 points as a freshman, but had 27 against Maryland in his 28th game as a sophomore.
Brooks Barnhizer never scored 20 until he broke thru with 23 against PSU in his 15th game as a junior.
Pat Spencer had one 22 point effort as a grad transfer.
Ty Berry scored 23 against Ohio State in the 13th game of his sophomore season and once as a junior.
Miller Kopp had two 20 point games as a sophomore. He scored more than 10 points once as a freshman.
Robbie Beran never scored 20 against a Big Ten opponent.
Chase Audige had two 20 point games for NU as a transfer playing his 2nd year of D1 basketball.
Vic Law had two 20 point games as a redshirt sophomore.
Dererk Pardon memorably had 28 against Nebraska in his Big Ten debut, but didn't put up 20 again until he did it once as a junior.
Scotty Lindsey didn't break 20 until he poured in 31 against Penn State as a junior.
Bryant McIntosh had a 21 point effort against Maryland in his 20th game. He followed that up twice as a sophomore.
Tre Demps put up 20 against Iowa in the BTT at the end of his 2nd full season.

So it appears that KJ Windham is the only Wildcat in the Collins era to score 20+ points twice as a freshman against a Big Ten opponent. Dererk Pardon, Boo Bue and Bryant McIntosh are the only other Wildcats I found who scored 20 points once in a Big Ten game as a freshman. Angelo Ciaravino almost joined that group with his 19 point effort against Purdue.

 

[hdhntr1]

The clayton percentages are abysmal. Doesn’t pass the eye test, and the stats don’t lie. I’m a diehard fan, but have to keep it real. The other team is begging for him to shoot the ball.

As PG his principal purpose is to run the O and play reasonable D. He has shown progress in his O from last year to this and even from first game playing this year to more recently. And reality is that he just does not have that much game time because even when he was getting in last year he was not playing that many minutes. And remember he had zero game time experience this year until a couple weeks ago, Pretty hard to slow the game down under those circumstances, He has been steady on the floor and has kept the mistakes to a minimum He is about where one would expect for a guy who had no time in a game experience this year until a couple weeks ago and has all of 100 minutes so far this year (vs almost 400 for KJ). Heck his 3pt shooting %s are about the same as KJ, Mullins and AC and he has only been in 6 games vs 25 or more for the others. Yes he played last year but he really did not have many minutes. Reality is that he is about where one would expect

 

[freewillie07]

The clayton percentages are abysmal. Doesn’t pass the eye test, and the stats don’t lie. I’m a diehard fan, but have to keep it real. The other team is begging for him to shoot the ball.

We don’t need anyone who is capable of playing meaningful minutes against Big Ten opponents transferring at the end of the year. Full stop.

Clayton might not have a super high ceiling but we need continuity and maturity for next year with five freshmen and a lot of institutional knowledge gone from Brooks/Berry/Matt. He has shown himself capable of running point and at a minimum will push KJ to keep growing.

I think after next season, when we get a decent look at the freshmen, is when Collins will be able to be more real with guys about their prospects for playing time.

In the meantime I’m excited by Clayton showing signs of belonging at this level and I’m hoping it continues tonight.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

As PG his principal purpose is to run the O and play reasonable D. He has shown progress in his O from last year to this and even from first game playing this year to more recently. And reality is that he just does not have that much game time because even when he was getting in last year he was not playing that many minutes. And remember he had zero game time experience this year until a couple weeks ago, Pretty hard to slow the game down under those circumstances, He has been steady on the floor and has kept the mistakes to a minimum He is about where one would expect for a guy who had no time in a game experience this year until a couple weeks ago and has all of 100 minutes so far this year (vs almost 400 for KJ). Heck his 3pt shooting %s are about the same as KJ, Mullins and AC and he has only been in 6 games vs 25 or more for the others. Yes he played last year but he really did not have many minutes. Reality is that he is about where one would expect

I agree 99%.
Clayton had a couple games where he looked lost defensively - the first two games he played.
(this was why it was so strange to me that he was the starter)
He doesn't lack for confidence shooting the ball.
And he can handle it okay - just not so sure how he'll do in late pressure situations.
He was very ineffective as a freshman - but then he got redshirted this year and everybody wrote him off, including me, because it made no sense whatsoever, given our lack of a true point guard.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Clayton is rounding into form as a respectable back-up B1G point guard. Sure, he's been starting, but that couldn't be less relevant. He plays the minutes of a back-up. Think of him in the Ryan Greer, Dave Sobolewski role. You'll rarely count on him to win you a game, but he'll give you solid relatively turnover-free minutes while KJ and/or West need a breather. That's a valuable back end of the roster guy. Unless you've got some 5-star beating down the door to come here, I see no reason to encourage Clayton to transfer out.

 

[prez77]

Actually I can see both being important to have next year. They are pretty close this year with KJ starting to get the edge. Will agree that KJ seems to have the higher upside but Clayton could still fill an important role next year. West will likely not be ready yet and having a reasonable backup at PG can be a pretty important piece to have. Especially since as we have seen, injuries happen often and PG is a pretty important position. The other alternative is to bring in a more senior guy through the portal but to be able to do that probably are not going to get them to come to be a backup. Clayton and KJ would look to be a descent tandem. Then if West develops, Clayton could decide to move on as his potential minutes could diminish. And if he is like a lot of our guys, he might already have his degree

Aw, c'mon. Clayton isn't about to score 20 or be our leading scorer in a Big10 game. It's not just an "edge".

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Sure, he's been starting, but that couldn't be less relevant. He plays the minutes of a back-up.

Clayton's played 109 minutes in 6 games.
Thats 18+ minutes a game.
It is absolutely relevant.
His 26 minutes against Washington cost us that game.
Meanwhile Ciaravino has played 73 minutes in the same 6 games.
Thats 12+ minutes per game.

Personally I'd flip those two.

 

[Hungry Jack]

If it were a choice between Clayton next year and a portal guard, I’d prefer the portal. I don’t think Clayton’s ceiling is very high. I could easily be wrong.

 

[hdhntr1]

If it were a choice between Clayton next year and a portal guard, I’d prefer the portal. I don’t think Clayton’s ceiling is very high. I could easily be wrong.

For a solid LG/PG in the portal, they have to see the opportunity to start all year or they are not coming, Looking at our situation (the development of both KJ and Clayton (or even without Clayton) that does not look to be happening. Unlikely to be able to fill the slot with a portal guy at this point. A wing/shooting guard yes but a LG no. KJ/Clayton would look to be the best option for the position at this point, Especially with West also coming in

 

[SmellyCat]

If it were a choice between Clayton next year and a portal guard, I’d prefer the portal. I don’t think Clayton’s ceiling is very high. I could easily be wrong.

Depends on what role. I’d rather have a third-year-in-the-system guy as a backup PG than a devil I don’t know. However if we’re talking about a starter, that’s a whole different thing. We need a better PG as the starter.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Clayton's played 109 minutes in 6 games.
Thats 18+ minutes a game.
It is absolutely relevant.

Are you intentionally misinterpreting? I said who starts is irrelevant. Obviously minutes matter. Clayton's numbers are skewed by the Washington game and the Nebraska game where KJ was in foul trouble. More recently, he's played 15 minutes against Iowa, 21 against MN and 11 against OSU. That might be a little high, but in each case it's less than KJ, and certainly within reason.

As for the Washington game, anyone can argue the counter-factual. We lost, and one can always say, "We would have won if...", but I'm not hanging my hat on KJ riding to the rescue in a game where he had as many turnovers as shot attempts.

 

[DaCat]

Clayton is rounding into form as a respectable back-up B1G point guard. Sure, he's been starting, but that couldn't be less relevant. He plays the minutes of a back-up. Think of him in the Ryan Greer, Dave Sobolewski role. You'll rarely count on him to win you a game, but he'll give you solid relatively turnover-free minutes while KJ and/or West need a breather. That's a valuable back end of the roster guy. Unless you've got some 5-star beating down the door to come here, I see no reason to encourage Clayton to transfer out.

I agree. It's all about trajectory and improvement with Clayton. I see a confident sophomore this year, even after sitting the first 2/3 of the season. He is becoming a solid PG, he can hit some shots, and he's a good ball handler.

 

[hdhntr1]

I agree 99%.
Clayton had a couple games where he looked lost defensively - the first two games he played.
(this was why it was so strange to me that he was the starter)
He doesn't lack for confidence shooting the ball.
And he can handle it okay - just not so sure how he'll do in late pressure situations.
He was very ineffective as a freshman - but then he got redshirted this year and everybody wrote him off, including me, because it made no sense whatsoever, given our lack of a true point guard.

Being out of step in those first couple games is very understandable since he had had ZERO playing time all year, He had just burned his shirt and the only way to justify that was to start him and give him some immediate minutes to try to get him up to speed

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Being out of step in those first couple games is very understandable since he had had ZERO playing time all year, He had just burned his shirt and the only way to justify that was to start him and give him some immediate minutes to try to get him up to speed

Right, which is why some of us were stunned when Collins threw Clayton out there instead of Windham.
Made zero sense.

 

[Davidgolds5]

I was STUNNED. And not a fan of it.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I was STUNNED. And not a fan of it.

I recall you expressing that (and getting attacked, if I remember right). There's three guys who think the coach is infallible. Actually, there's probably only 2. There's just some really salty folks around here.

I forget who it was, but somebody cracked a joke about "It's Jordan Clayton time!" after Leach was declared out for the season.
I thought it was funny, but that wisecrack became reality.

 

[ricko654321]

The clayton percentages are abysmal. Doesn’t pass the eye test, and the stats don’t lie. I’m a diehard fan, but have to keep it real. The other team is begging for him to shoot the ball.

I'm not saying I want Clayton shooting a ton, but his initial struggles remind me of Mullins when he got limited minutes and reps. He looked scared and/or nervous whenever he would shoot. As someone who at times is a role player in 5v5 pickup basketball, I can sympathize - if you are only going to take 1-2 shots a game then you don't get into a rhythm and may be more likely to have a bad stroke or release. As Mullins has gotten more comfortable taking shots in the flow of the game, they have looked better and you don't see the ugly misses that you did earlier in his NU tenure (or at least much more rarely). He is 14-46 from 3 on the season overall for 30%, which isn't great, but the percentages have been better recently (i.e. since the Brooks and Leach injuries when he's gotten more PT and shot volume). He's 12-35 in conference play for 34%, and since he got upgraded to a rotation regular (I started from the Wisconsin game, he has played 24+ minutes in every game since then after playing <10 in the 4 games prior) he is 10-24 from 3 for a 42% rate which is pretty good.

I'm not saying the same thing would happen with Clayton if he got more minutes and volume. I think there is a good reason why is playing less than Mullins and Windham (in fact I almost view him starting as a reverse indicator - I think that is how Collins guarantees that he'll get some minutes in the rotation because he doesn't really trust him in late-game situations). Clayton may or may not improve his shooting stroke / scoring capability with more minutes and reps. But I'm just saying that it is possible he would step up if given a bigger role next year - not unlike what we've seen from Mullins and Fitzmorris over the last month or so.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

There's three guys who think the coach is infallible. Actually, there's probably only 2. There's just some really salty folks around here.

I'll own up to being salty. Coach has developed a lightly recruited KJ into what looks like a potential 3-year starter. He identified and developed a lightly recruited Buie into the best player in school history. He identified and developed BMac, who was ready to go to Indiana State, into a program-changing player. How about we give him the benefit of the doubt on how he handles point guards?

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I wrote this original post before the U of M game. Since then, Windham’s production has noticeably increased and become much more consistent. In fact, I actually think that Minnesota game was his best performance in an NU uniform so far. The difference in how he ran the offense during that game compared to others was significant. Clayton also did much better in that game against Minnesota, so some of that might be due to the level of competition. Clayton did fine against Iowa, but Windham, while moving the ball well and a great game in his own right, didn’t quite replicate his Minnesota performance in my opinion. That game set a pretty high bar for him.

At the risk of being proven wrong in the future, I was higher on KJ heading into the season than on Gelo. I loved his ability to break down defenders off the dribble. If you’d asked me at the start of the season if he’d drop 20 points in a game, I would’ve laughed and said, "Maybe if his defense improves and he gets hot." But I never expected multiple 20-point games and a 7-assist performance. Honestly, I thought we’d be looking this level of Windham next season, but he's definitely a different player now than he was even a month ago. There’s still room for improvement on the defensive end, but he’s come a long way and is quick enough to keep getting better. We should be really optimistic about him.

Clayton has a lower ceiling, and that’s perfectly fine. I’ll never wish for a player to transfer; I want all of them to develop and succeed at NU. With some development, I think Clayton could provide solid bench minutes in the future. It speaks to his character that he’s burning the redshirt for the team, and I respect that decision.

In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter who starts the game. When KJ produces, he’s going to get the minutes. Gelo started over Berry, but that didn’t make him a better player than Berry, nor was it Gelo playing over Berry. Look at who gets the minutes and finishes the games. Against Washington Clayton, and KJ both had rough performances in that one. I think Clayton played slightly better than KJ, but neither set a high bar for themselves. But when KJ produces, he’s getting those minutes, and he’s been doing just that lately. KJ and/or Clayton have to be on the court to run this offense unless we want to have Martinelli wearing another hat. Or KJ playing 40 minutes a night. They both well get minutes the rest of the season.

Edit in bold

 

[Davidgolds5]

I honestly cannot understand how people think that KJ has only a slight edge out there. I see one guy who can win you a game. And one guy who dribbles on the perimeter passing to other guys on the perimeter. I have seen zero to suggest that this is going to change. Not really worth an argument, but also interesting to see how different people can have such varying viewpoints after watching the same games!

 

[Hungry Jack]

For a solid LG/PG in the portal, they have to see the opportunity to start all year or they are not coming, Looking at our situation (the development of both KJ and Clayton (or even without Clayton) that does not look to be happening. Unlikely to be able to fill the slot with a portal guy at this point. A wing/shooting guard yes but a LG no. KJ/Clayton would look to be the best option for the position at this point, Especially with West also coming in

There is certainly an opening for a shooting guard or combo guard.

 

[hdhntr1]

I'm not saying I want Clayton shooting a ton, but his initial struggles remind me of Mullins when he got limited minutes and reps. He looked scared and/or nervous whenever he would shoot. As someone who at times is a role player in 5v5 pickup basketball, I can sympathize - if you are only going to take 1-2 shots a game then you don't get into a rhythm and may be more likely to have a bad stroke or release. As Mullins has gotten more comfortable taking shots in the flow of the game, they have looked better and you don't see the ugly misses that you did earlier in his NU tenure (or at least much more rarely). He is 14-46 from 3 on the season overall for 30%, which isn't great, but the percentages have been better recently (i.e. since the Brooks and Leach injuries when he's gotten more PT and shot volume). He's 12-35 in conference play for 34%, and since he got upgraded to a rotation regular (I started from the Wisconsin game, he has played 24+ minutes in every game since then after playing <10 in the 4 games prior) he is 10-24 from 3 for a 42% rate which is pretty good.

I'm not saying the same thing would happen with Clayton if he got more minutes and volume. I think there is a good reason why is playing less than Mullins and Windham (in fact I almost view him starting as a reverse indicator - I think that is how Collins guarantees that he'll get some minutes in the rotation because he doesn't really trust him in late-game situations). Clayton may or may not improve his shooting stroke / scoring capability with more minutes and reps. But I'm just saying that it is possible he would step up if given a bigger role next year - not unlike what we've seen from Mullins and Fitzmorris over the last month or so.

Last year, he got all of about 7 mpg or under 200 minutes for the whole season. Why? Because we had Boo Buie as well as Longborg, Barnhizer, Berry and Martinelli all averaging a lot of minutes and we had a pretty thin margin of error, Pretty hard to get into any kind of rythm or consistency under those circumstances. Mullins did not get any real time either. This year, KJ (as well as Mullins) was able to get more early minutes as they were available because of lingering injuries to Barney and Berry, Leach was not a true PG and because Clayton was trying to RS (had Clayton not tried to RS it is probable that many if not most of the early minutes KJ got would have gone to Clayton). The minutes became more restricted as Leach adapted into his role and Barney and Berry got back into the lineup

 

[hdhntr1]

There is certainly an opening for a shooting guard or combo guard.

More shooting guard to small forward as we will have two to three guys (KJ, Clayton and to a lesser extent, West) on the roster vying for those LG minutes

 

[Hungry Jack]

More shooting guard to small forward as we will have two to three guys (KJ, Clayton and to a lesser extent, West) on the roster vying for those LG minutes

Gill is more of a LG than West.

 

[Davidgolds5]

Gill is more of a LG than West.

I guess i dont understand all the decision making, but why did Clayton RS this year? Boo Buie was graduating, we had no point guard on the team. What are the possible reasons? The view seems to be that he was sacrificing himself for returning to play, but why in the first place would he have been redshirting?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Last year, he got all of about 7 mpg or under 200 minutes for the whole season. Why? Because we had Boo Buie as well as Longborg, Barnhizer, Berry and Martinelli all averaging a lot of minutes and we had a pretty thin margin of error, Pretty hard to get into any kind of rythm or consistency under those circumstances. Mullins did not get any real time either. This year, KJ (as well as Mullins) was able to get more early minutes as they were available because of lingering injuries to Barney and Berry, Leach was not a true PG and because Clayton was trying to RS (had Clayton not tried to RS it is probable that many if not most of the early minutes KJ got would have gone to Clayton). The minutes became more restricted as Leach adapted into his role and Barney and Berry got back into the lineup

Clayton was almost a guaranteed negative when he played last year.
He was as nervous as I've seen a Wildcat player in recent years.
Sure, trying to sub in for Buie was part of that - but it was obvious that Clayton was a big step down last year from the rest of the rotation.
And that was not the case with Windham, who looked confident day one.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I guess i dont understand all the decision making, but why did Clayton RS this year? Boo Buie was graduating, we had no point guard on the team. What are the possible reasons? The view seems to be that he was sacrificing himself for returning to play, but why in the first place would he have been redshirting?

KJ outplayed him in the offseason so KJ was going to get the back up min behind Leach. Burned his shirt as a selfless act for his teammates and a real opportunity at meaningful big ten minutes. KJ was the lone option at running the offense left standing, Clayton steps in to fill the rest of the minutes there as there’s no other option. Starts to symbolize that sacrifice. KJ gets the minutes because he’s outplaying him right now.

 

[Davidgolds5]

KJ outplayed him in the offseason so KJ was going to get the back up min behind Leach. Burned his shirt as a selfless act for his teammates and a real opportunity at meaningful big ten minutes. KJ was the lone option at running the offense left standing, Clayton steps in to fill the rest of the minutes there as there’s no other option. Starts to symbolize that sacrifice. KJ gets the minutes because he’s outplaying him right now.

I understand that but why did he redshirt in the first place? What was the motive there? Outplayed by KJ so why redshirt? KJ is an incoming freshman, clearly not going anywhere. Was the plan to redshirt this year and then transfer next year?

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I understand that but why did he redshirt in the first place? What was the motive there? Outplayed by KJ so why redshirt? KJ is an incoming freshman, clearly not going anywhere. Was the plan to redshirt this year and then transfer next year?

To preserve a year of eligibility when he otherwise wouldn’t be getting minutes.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

I understand that but why did he redshirt in the first place? What was the motive there? Outplayed by KJ so why redshirt? KJ is an incoming freshman, clearly not going anywhere. Was the plan to redshirt this year and then transfer next year?

Development. The coaches must have thought that having the option of a veteran Clayton to help out in 2027-2028 would be more valuable to the program that a not-yet-ready Clayton as a 3rd stringer in 2024-2025.

I honestly cannot understand how people think that KJ has only a slight edge out there.

Who is still saying that? He plays because presumably because Coach thinks he can get the most out of KJ for now and for the future by playing him around 25 minutes, and there's no one else to run the point during the other minutes. And, as I've pointed out ad nauseum, Coach seems to know what he's doing around developing point guards.

 

[GatoLouco]

Clayton surely benefits a ton on this board from expectations being low. I feel the kid makes one shot and that buys him another 5 on this board till anyone dares to say he stunk.

It's understandable that expectations are low for a guy who was not good last year and burned the red shirt. Add to this that we actually won the last 3 games and there you have it, a forgiveness that would not be granted to many. Less than 30% shooting. And folks just want to see rainbows in the fact that maybe he hit 3 shots out of the last 7 or 8.

We need him right now, we are that banged up. That's not what this is about: we should use him as little as we can. And it feels to me his use is trending that way.