I wonder if Collins plans to redshirt him? He was last off the bench against Lewis and didn't play last night. Plenty of Guards ahead of him, could use the extra year if he sticks around in Evanston.
Clayton
- Thread starter NJCat
- Start date
I was going to start a thread on this, but you beat me by four minutes.
I don't know about redshirting. Possible he's in the doghouse, possible he's just not as good as the guys NU has, but it's weird he didn't even play at all, even when Gus came in and the team was up 50. If a healthy Clayton doesn't play even when the bench gets empty in a blowout, I'm not sure he will play.
I don't know about redshirting. Possible he's in the doghouse, possible he's just not as good as the guys NU has, but it's weird he didn't even play at all, even when Gus came in and the team was up 50. If a healthy Clayton doesn't play even when the bench gets empty in a blowout, I'm not sure he will play.
If you're going with the "Get old and stay old" philosophy of development, then it makes sense to red-shirt everyone you can. And if he leaves, then he leaves. The 2023 recruiting class looks like a washout, but if Clayton or Barkley both redshirt (Barkley already has) and can provide something in their fourth and fifth years, then at least we will have salvaged something. They seem to be good "culture" guys.
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Clayton not playing last night in a blowout after the remaining bench was used sends a very clear message unless he was injured. Same status as the player who transferred after the season to a West Coast team (Name escapes me.). Collins wants the scholarship back.
I would highly doubt that Clayton will be with the 'Cats next year. I've seen enough of him to conclude that he's not a Big Ten player.
I think you're right. Clayton and Collins may even already talked about this. I bet Clayton will be a "break glass in case of emergency" player (like Blake Smith last year) but otherwise, Collins won't play him so Clayton could retain three years of eligibility at his next destination.
Parker Strauss. Barkley didn't play at all last year either and took the shirt. Clayton probably would have too if they hadn't had the Ty injury.
Strauss transferred to UC Riverside. They lost to Oregon by 15 last night, played ten players, and Strauss did not see the floor.
I assume you mean 2023? 2024 is going to be good.
Parker Strauss did not play for UC-Riverside against Oregon. 10 guys saw the court for his team. Not sure if he is injured.
As a reformed critic of the reformed Chris Collins, that 2023 class is not his. It belongs to Gragg.
Its an outlier for Collins and it was Gragg's fault.
(But the old Collins still owns those minutes when Barnhizer was watching Casey Simmons play.)
Barkley seems like he should be able to contribute. He is not afraid.
Clayton? The +/- stats were flashing red very early last season.
Those numbers really haven't been wrong yet.
Collins confused me a few weeks ago by saying some positive things about Clayton and the progress he'd made in the offseason.
He made it sound like Clayton was the #3 guard - or at least that was my fear.
Yesterday Clayton looked disinterested sitting on the bench (I was directly across) and either he's in the doghouse or Collins was just being nice to a guy he's given up on.
My understanding is that Clayton was supposed to red shirt last year, but got called up in the wake of the injuries. It seems reasonable that Collins may want him to red shirt this year instead, and we'll see how Clayton feels about that.
Given the 2025 class, and the 2024 freshmen, it's tough to imagine Clayton having any interest in sticking around. The only way that Clayton is going to see much, if any, playing time, is if we have a couple of injuries, and there is really no future in sitting and waiting for injuries. He's much better off if he moves on and gets out of the Big Ten. I suspect that the decision has already been made by Clayton and Collins based on the opening game. Did Clayton have other offers out of high school? Too lazy to look it up.
16 other offers, mainly in the northeast, plus one from Cal. Visited UMass, BU and Rhode Island. He wasn't a bad prospect, just didn't pan out for NU.
If I'm Clayton, I stay at NU.
Assuming he can handle the academics, he'd be foolish to leave - unless an Ivy came calling.
I'm assuming our coaches wouldn't make him suffer for staying.
After all, we made a commitment.
Don't worry though, the NCAA is adding two more scholarships in 2025 in its unrelenting quest to destroy the mid-majors and below.
You repeatedly say this but Barnhizer had a broken foot his 1st year. He was not fully heathy his first year.
Even if he's super stubborn, I would hope Collins learned from that experience and figured out a better way to do it since then.
I hear what you're saying and I believe it will largely be about how he and Collins talk about it, and what Collins tells him. The most obvious path for him forward was getting good enough to win minutes on the floor. If Collins doesn't think he got that done in the off season and tells him that, I can see Clayton red shirting the season to save that year of eligibility. If this is the case, riding the pine for an entire season when everyone knows he's leaving will be a true test of Clayton's character.
I didn’t see Clayton looking disinterested at all. In fact, when Barkley scored he went wild. Same with Fitz and even Angelo. Had a bias towards the bench players, maybe, but certainly not disinterested.
Unless he really hates/resents Northwestern (and I have no reason to believe that), I don't know how anybody in his position could watch that game and be disinterested. A front-row seat to watch your brothers slaughter another team? That would be super fun. I didn't see anything unusual about how he reacted or didn't react, but then again I don't usually watch the guys on the bench.
Admittedly, I never strapped it on, so I don't know what goes through a guy's head when he's on the bench and thinks he might be better (or even thinks he might be worse) than his teammates on the floor. That could do a number on you, to be sure.
I really can't agree with this. Players want to play, and many other universities offer excellent academic opportunities. We've been critical in the past of players' transferring to schools that don't have the academic chops of NU. Obviously, I know nothing about Clayton personally, and I have no doubt that he's a fine young man, but who would want to stick around for 3 more years to ride the pine? In my mind, the only players who would do that are those who have come to grips with the fact that they are not going to become good college basketball players.
I say it because Barnhizer told my daughter that he was extremely frustrated with his position on the bench and that he was healthy and felt he should be playing ahead of guys who were getting playing time. This was in January of his first season, if I remember correctly.
Collins allows the players to have social lives, with serious repercussions if they abuse the privilege.
And guys can be a bit unguarded when they talk to sorority girls.
If you remember that season, Collins was playing 10 guys...
Ryan Young, Pete Nance, Boo Buie, Chase Audige, Robbie Beran, Ty Berry, Ryan Greer, Elijah Williams, freshman Julian Roper and freshman Casey Simmons.
Nicholson and Barnhizer sat and watched. And Barnhizer knew he was better than some of those guys and shouldn't be sitting on the bench.
I mention it from time to time because it reflects (and supports) my belief that the players sometimes know better than the coaches.
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A mature response to being directly told you aren't developing enough, have been passed by younger players, and should strongly considering transferring... but are also free to enjoy your redshirt year to preserve eligibility and practice with the team to improve... is to stew for a bit, then work hard in practice and even ask Collins if he has any recommendations which coaches he might reach out to (in football, at least, it's becoming increasingly common at the FCS level for coaches to have co-recruitment networks where Power 4 coaches will call FCS coaches and say "hey I have a kid who isn't making it here but he'd be a good fit with your system and I gave him your name" and for the inverse to happen, for those same FCS coaches to call the same P4 coaches and say "hey, I've got a kid who is gonna transfer away from me, he's a fit for you." I know this is happening with hoops as well.)
Obviously that's a pretty dry rational response.
Of course, maybe Clayton is just hurt or maybe he's still hungry to be a Cat and Collins still is optimistic about his future development, who knows.
I don't want to give the wrong impression. I wasn't watching Clayton at all during the game. Late in the 2nd half, I realized he hadn't played and was still in his warmups, sitting down the bench next to Gus. When I looked at his face, he looked a bit forlorn and it made me feel bad for the guy. It surprised me that he didn't get in for garbage time, especially when Gus had people chanting his name.
So, I'm not ruling out the doghouse or the "Kid, I have bad news" scenarios.
Simmons was so good he got double reps. I can see why barney was chapped.
I am on record believing that Clayton will move on next season. Leaving the Cats with a big freshman class but still seats for a big man transfer.
My memory is that Barnhizer was solidly behind Roper and Simmons in the rotation. Got injured, sat a few weeks, came back, rotation still the same.
The narrative that his foot derailed his minutes always seemed to me board speculation. I guess there’s a world he’d have gotten 5 minutes and killed it, breaking into the rotation. But chances are that would not have happened in any scenario.
Or maybe my memory fails me. In the end, in retrospect, it’s easy to question BB’s place in the rotation. After all he became a beast. But at the time most thought Roper was number one out of the three, and Simmons was a dude with long arms that was disruptive on defense.
If anything we probably gave too many minutes to rotation guys. Greer, Roper, Simmons. I’m glad BB stuck around and just decided to show everyone he was by far the best of the rotation guys.
The narrative that his foot derailed his minutes always seemed to me board speculation. I guess there’s a world he’d have gotten 5 minutes and killed it, breaking into the rotation. But chances are that would not have happened in any scenario.
Or maybe my memory fails me. In the end, in retrospect, it’s easy to question BB’s place in the rotation. After all he became a beast. But at the time most thought Roper was number one out of the three, and Simmons was a dude with long arms that was disruptive on defense.
If anything we probably gave too many minutes to rotation guys. Greer, Roper, Simmons. I’m glad BB stuck around and just decided to show everyone he was by far the best of the rotation guys.
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He had other nagging injuries after the broken foot his first year. The staff was very high on him coming out of HS. Roper did come in with a B1G ready body and Simmons defense earned him Collins trust early on. I do not think there was a ton of minutes available to healthy freshman Barnhizer but I do know not being fully healthy was a very real thing for him his 1st year.
This is absolutely happening in hoops - I know b/c my nephew is going through it presently. He's a bit of a borderline kid (6'3" guard) that drew some DI interest early, battled injuries, and wound up committing to a DII school, where the pitch to him was essentially "We know you're too good to stick around here for your whole career. We'll give you a ton of playing time right away, help you develop further, and fully expect you to transfer out after a year or two. Also - here's some NIL money for you." He got the same pitch from a dozen DII programs, so it's a thing. This is one of the realities of the portal - there are a lot of borderline kids like him that in the past would have gotten big time offers out of high school as developmental prospects, but nowadays the big boys are more likely to save those scholarships for transfers who have proven themselves at the college level. I can't speak to the reverse path (transferring down), but I'd bet that's a two-way street.
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