Collins

[clarificationcat]

I think Collins is a really good coach. I think he's a good x's and o's coach and, up to this year, I think he has done a great job of motivating his teams to play consistently hard. I don't think any of the issues this year had to do with strategy or offensive sets.

Where Collins has clearly stumbled is recruiting and/or player development. After the first class (which was miraculous), he's recruited one starter (Pardon) and one rotation guy (Gaines). Brown could score on his own but struggled defensively and apparently had a lot of trouble running the offense. Benson has shown very little but hopefully will build on the last couple of games. Hard to judge Rap but before his injury this year he was not getting any minutes. Ash is getting better but he does not look like a B1G point guard, even a backup. I have yet to see him create anything on his own. I am concerned that Collins spent so much time scouting and recruiting blue chippers that he has a hard time evaluating players that fall out of the top 100.

We desperately need more kids who can generate their own shot. You can draw up great plays but ultimately it comes down to one guy beating another guy. With Lindsey and BMac graduating, we have no one currently on the roster that can consistently do that. Law shows flashes but I have given up hope that he is going to be an 18 points a game guy.

I am very excited about the incoming class. Kopp can score and looks the part physically. Nance has size and a skill set that is unique to the program. And Lathon looks like a great all-around player. I think that next year's class will be critically important. Collins is not recruiting off a magical season and we need to build on this year's class. Here's hoping that Collins has figured some things out.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

Agreed 100%. We have zero depth and zero margin for error with recruits. I thought Ryan Young or maybe even Nance may have been candidates for a redshirt, not anymore. We need all the bodies we can get in the front court especially since it seems that Falzon may not be the same player he was Freshman year (lateral movement).

 

[NJCat]

I think Collins is a really good coach. I think he's a good x's and o's coach and, up to this year, I think he has done a great job of motivating his teams to play consistently hard. I don't think any of the issues this year had to do with strategy or offensive sets.

Where Collins has clearly stumbled is recruiting and/or player development. After the first class (which was miraculous), he's recruited one starter (Pardon) and one rotation guy (Gaines). Brown could score on his own but struggled defensively and apparently had a lot of trouble running the offense. Benson has shown very little but hopefully will build on the last couple of games. Hard to judge Rap but before his injury this year he was not getting any minutes. Ash is getting better but he does not look like a B1G point guard, even a backup. I have yet to see him create anything on his own. I am concerned that Collins spent so much time scouting and recruiting blue chippers that he has a hard time evaluating players that fall out of the top 100.

We desperately need more kids who can generate their own shot. You can draw up great plays but ultimately it comes down to one guy beating another guy. With Lindsey and BMac graduating, we have no one currently on the roster that can consistently do that. Law shows flashes but I have given up hope that he is going to be an 18 points a game guy.

I am very excited about the incoming class. Kopp can score and looks the part physically. Nance has size and a skill set that is unique to the program. And Lathon looks like a great all-around player. I think that next year's class will be critically important. Collins is not recruiting off a magical season and we need to build on this year's class. Here's hoping that Collins has figured some things out.

Good summary. I would just add "Patience, my son". It is still early in the Collins recruiting era, and this will be the first season he has a respectable place to play as a recruiting tool. He and his assistants will have to get better at extrapolating and developing his kids, because I doubt NU will ever get the kind of kid he was recruiting at Duke.

 

[clarificationcat]

Agreed 100%. We have zero depth and zero margin for error with recruits. I thought Ryan Young or maybe even Nance may have been candidates for a redshirt, not anymore. We need all the bodies we can get in the front court especially since it seems that Falzon may not be the same player he was Freshman year (lateral movement).

I forgot to mention Falzon. I don't see him as a starter but he is a rotation guy based on his shooting and size. Even his freshman year, though, I thought he was one dimensional (granted, it's a pretty great dimension when he is hot). Kopp is shorter but he shows more ability to score in different ways.

 

[freewillie07]

We desperately need more kids who can generate their own shot. You can draw up great plays but ultimately it comes down to one guy beating another guy.

This x1000000

I’ve been beating this drum for a long time. Collins gets a lot of nice players, but he needs (to borrow a phrase from Fitz) some “dudes.” Dare I say — like Demps, or Crawford? I just never really saw Lindsey or Law take their guys off the dribble in Big Ten play. Here’s hoping Lathon, Kopp and Turner can do it, and Nance too eventually.

 

[MysticCat]

Good summary. I would just add "Patience, my son". It is still early in the Collins recruiting era, and this will be the first season he has a respectable place to play as a recruiting tool. He and his assistants will have to get better at extrapolating and developing his kids, because I doubt NU will ever get the kind of kid he was recruiting at Duke.

I doubt NU will ever get the kind of kid he was recruiting at Duke.


BC did.

Thought we were upgrading our recruiting?

 

[DaCat]

I doubt NU will ever get the kind of kid he was recruiting at Duke.


BC did.

Thought we were upgrading our recruiting?

Yeah, we sure could use all those one-and-done's that BC recruited. If he was even inclined to greet the potential recruits when they visited.

 

[cometclear]

Good summary. I would just add "Patience, my son". It is still early in the Collins recruiting era, and this will be the first season he has a respectable place to play as a recruiting tool. He and his assistants will have to get better at extrapolating and developing his kids, because I doubt NU will ever get the kind of kid he was recruiting at Duke.

Gimme a break. Patience will get him fired and he knows that. He needs to score big. Now.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Gimme a break. Patience will get him fired and he knows that. He needs to score big. Now.

Agree! Collins needs two impact starters!

 

[Jonny2TheP]

I doubt NU will ever get the kind of kid he was recruiting at Duke.


BC did.

Thought we were upgrading our recruiting?

I don’t get involved in this Carmody/Collins crap since it’s the same conversation over and over...but come on, this post is just trolling.

 

[MysticCat]

Yeah, we sure could use all those one-and-done's that BC recruited. If he was even inclined to greet the potential recruits when they visited.

Fact is, BC landed a kid with a Duke offer, and landed NBA talent. CC10P hasn’t done either.... by a mile.

Hence, 3 tenths and one ninth finish, and if Smithee’s preseason poll is correct, we can add a 13th soon.

Nice upgrade so far.


The trick now for CC, is to avoid the 0-fers.. This was the BC recruiting problem (and every NU coach’s problem ever). The BC - CC first 5-7 players talent level is basically a wash, overall. You could find exceptions of course by picking the best and the worst if you just want to be silly, but basically lots of guys (even KO), sometimes had 4, or so, really good B10 players.

But for every vukusic, shurna, Nash, Crawford, Esch, law, mac, Moore..... there were all the guys we spent 4 (or however many), scholarship years on that either A), never panned our, or B) left before they paid dividends. Some good we wished we had back, some just misses, we were happy to see gone.

Thompson, Parker, Coble, maley, Cote, fruendt, pelusic, , Brown, ash, vassar, rap......

A poster once did a calc of how many great senior seasons we’d lost from guys, and how many scholy-seasons, sat the bench during BC. We’re getting there fast now.

So, we’re in that danger zone which takes years to recover from. Classes get way of balance. Injuries loom huge. You take a transfer, then a grad transfer, then next year you lose s transfer, then you need to find 5 or 6 incoming guys, etc. or you're perpetually playing 2 or 3 guys under the limit. A guy gets hurt... ya lose 8 in a row.

Even Kentucky went to the Nit and failed to win a game recently (although there 0-fers and lack of balanced classes were for a slightly different reason than ours ever were, unfortunately)

But CC needs to instill some rhyme and reason to this scenario fast. Because we’re an injury and a transfer away from being behind the curve for a long while. Fingers crossed.

CC needs stability and incremental growth now. Tourney invite overshadows 4 bad years. New arena. Long contract. Lots of player turnover. He needs to be calm and play the long game, or take a better job if he wants. But if he wants to stay, then he needs to start stabilizing things.

 

[MysticCat]

I don’t get involved in this Carmody/Collins crap since it’s the same conversation over and over...but come on, this post is just trolling.

Well if by trolling, you mean that both things I said, are true, then I agree. Trolling, I am.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Fact is, BC landed a kid with a Duke offer, and landed NBA talent. CC10P hasn’t done either.... by a mile.

Hence, 3 tenths and one ninth finish, and if Smithee’s preseason poll is correct, we can add a 13th soon.

Nice upgrade so far.


The trick now for CC, is to avoid the 0-fers.. This was the BC recruiting problem (and every NU coach’s problem ever). The BC - CC first 5-7 players talent level is basically a wash, overall. You could find exceptions of course by picking the best and the worst if you just want to be silly, but basically lots of guys (even KO), sometimes had 4, or so, really good B10 players.

But for every vukusic, shurna, Nash, Crawford, Esch, law, mac, Moore..... there were all the guys we spent 4 (or however many), scholarship years on that either A), never panned our, or B) left before they paid dividends. Some good we wished we had back, some just misses, we were happy to see gone.

Thompson, Parker, Coble, maley, Cote, fruendt, pelusic, , Brown, ash, vassar, rap......

A poster once did a calc of how many great senior seasons we’d lost from guys, and how many scholy-seasons, sat the bench during BC. We’re getting there fast now.

So, we’re in that danger zone which takes years to recover from. Classes get way of balance. Injuries loom huge. You take a transfer, then a grad transfer, then next year you lose s transfer, then you need to find 5 or 6 incoming guys, etc. or you're perpetually playing 2 or 3 guys under the limit. A guy gets hurt... ya lose 8 in a row.

Even Kentucky went to the Nit and failed to win a game recently (although there 0-fers and lack of balanced classes were for a slightly different reason than ours ever were, unfortunately)

But CC needs to instill some rhyme and reason to this scenario fast. Because we’re an injury and a transfer away from being behind the curve for a long while. Fingers crossed.

CC needs stability and incremental growth now. Tourney invite overshadows 4 bad years. New arena. Long contract. Lots of player turnover. He needs to be calm and play the long game, or take a better job if he wants. But if he wants to stay, then he needs to start stabilizing things.

Honest question as I don’t follow basketball nearly as closely as football... who had a Duke offer? And is Hearn your “NBA talent?”

 

[Figrating]

Where Collins has clearly stumbled is recruiting and/or player development.

The transfer/injury demon has come after CCC.

BUT, he has done everything that could POSSIBLY be expected of him in recruiting. That some of these players suffer injury or fail to rise to his standards is disappointing, but no more than disappointing.

ONE impact transfer and we're looking good.

GO CCC!!! Jump on his chest, scream the many exclusive benefits, jam a pen into his limp fingers and scrawl his name across a COMMITMENT.

NU can weeen!!!!

 

[MysticCat]

Honest question as I don’t follow basketball nearly as closely as football... who had a Duke offer? And is Hearn your “NBA talent?”

Michael Thompson.

And yes.

 

[hoosboot]

We desperately need more kids who can generate their own shot. You can draw up great plays but ultimately it comes down to one guy beating another guy. With Lindsey and BMac graduating, we have no one currently on the roster that can consistently do that. Law shows flashes but I have given up hope that he is going to be an 18 points a game guy.

I fear you guys didn't watch the NCAA tournament much. The best teams are experienced teams that defend and move the ball for their offense...not teams that rely on one guy to beat another guy off the dribble. Three of the four Final Four teams fit that bill. Generating your own shot is great, but it's not a long-term success strategy...particularly at NU.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

I fear you guys didn't watch the NCAA tournament much. The best teams are experienced teams that defend and move the ball for their offense...not teams that rely on one guy to beat another guy off the dribble. Three of the four Final Four teams fit that bill. Generating your own shot is great, but it's not a long-term success strategy...particularly at NU.

BMac had about 75 turnovers also. Scottie from downtown is no offense. I'd take the Loyola coach over Collins any day of the week. Michigan coach also.

 

[mikewebb68]

I doubt NU will ever get the kind of kid he was recruiting at Duke.


BC did.

Thought we were upgrading our recruiting?

BC.... is he the guy who sucks?

 

[mikewebb68]

Michael Thompson.

And yes.

Tell us this tantalizing tale of BC beating out Duke for a HS recruit. I need a good laugh...

Oh, and BC=Carmody=Sucks!

 

[NURoseBowl]

I fear you guys didn't watch the NCAA tournament much. The best teams are experienced teams that defend and move the ball for their offense...not teams that rely on one guy to beat another guy off the dribble. Three of the four Final Four teams fit that bill. Generating your own shot is great, but it's not a long-term success strategy...particularly at NU.

You're right, Hoos . . . . . but a little bit of it sure doesn't hurt.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Michael Thompson.

And yes.

I guess I’m not terribly surprised, but those seem more like technicalities than strong talking points.

Michael Thompson “had a Duke offer” in that he transferred from Duke to NU, but that was after playing a grand total of 70 minutes in his two-year Duke career. Reggie Hearn is “NBA talent” in that he’s played in an NBA game, but that was a grand total of three minutes in two games after grinding it out for six years in the G-League.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

I guess I’m not terribly surprised, but those seem more like technicalities than strong talking points.

Michael Thompson “had a Duke offer” in that he transferred from Duke to NU, but that was after playing a grand total of 70 minutes in his two-year Duke career. Reggie Hearn is “NBA talent” in that he’s played in an NBA game, but that was a grand total of three minutes in a single game after grinding it out for six years in the G-League.

Ya but look at Loyola! Winning 30 games, with the same level of recruits as NU! All coaching

 

[DaCat]

Fact is, BC landed a kid with a Duke offer, and landed NBA talent. CC10P hasn’t done either.... by a mile.

Michael Thompson.

And yes.

LOL. Fail. MT-1 was a transfer from Duke. How did that work out for us?

BC failed at NU largely due to a lack of effort and interest in recruiting. He landed some good talent occasionally, but that was more from the effort of his assistants such as Tavaras Hardy. In his first 5 seasons as NU head coach, BC had a winning season once. In 13 seasons, BC never had a winning record in the B1G, achieving .500 once. By contrast "CC10P" in his first 5 seasons at NU has already taken the team to the NCAA tournament for the first time EVER, has two 20-win seasons including the school record for wins, has an overall winning record (88-77), and is a dedicated recruiter.

Collins has the program on an upward trajectory with potentially his best recruiting class yet. I get it, FANZ WANT MOAR, but I believe the best is yet ahead for this program under CCNCAA.

 

[docrugby1]

I fear you guys didn't watch the NCAA tournament much. The best teams are experienced teams that defend and move the ball for their offense...not teams that rely on one guy to beat another guy off the dribble. Three of the four Final Four teams fit that bill. Generating your own shot is great, but it's not a long-term success strategy...particularly at NU.

I disagree, you must beat one man to start the defense rotating then the quick passes will be effective.

 

[Medill90]

It's technically correct that Bill Carmody "landed a kid with a Duke offer."

And, if I can be similarly flexible with language, Chris Collins landed dozens of kids with a Duke offer.

 

[Jonny2TheP]

Well if by trolling, you mean that both things I said, are true, then I agree. Trolling, I am.

Let's use some reason here:

1) Michael Thompson is your "Duke" example, which as others have pointed out, was a transfer that barely played at Duke, and wasn't a huge difference maker for us either.
2) Reggie Hearn, who I am a huge fan of, was a walk on that has worked his way to becoming basically a G League player that has played a few minutes in a couple NBA games. His story is great, and I root for him hard, but he's a borderline NBA talent at best.

Even you have to admit that these are incredibly weak examples that you are propping any argument up on. On top of that, Carmody had 12 years to breed those two examples, while Collins' first recruiting class just played their last game a month ago. Yes, there does not appear to be a future NBA player on the current roster, but let's see where we're at after 12 years

I have no issue with you having a different opinion than others, but these are really weak arguments that are huge stretches.

 

[clarificationcat]

I fear you guys didn't watch the NCAA tournament much. The best teams are experienced teams that defend and move the ball for their offense...not teams that rely on one guy to beat another guy off the dribble. Three of the four Final Four teams fit that bill. Generating your own shot is great, but it's not a long-term success strategy...particularly at NU.

I fear you are not understanding what I am saying. I am not saying that we need to change our style of play and recruit a bunch of guys who will go one on one all the time. And I have no idea how being able to beat a guy off the dribble and creating your own shot is related to being experienced or playing defense.

I fully expect that we will continue to run a structured offense. But at every level of basketball, you need to have at least a couple of players that are capable of creating their own shots to have consistent success. Even the best run offenses are not going to create wide open looks every possession, particularly against good defenses. I watched the title game and Michigan had several layups and good shots created simply by one of their players beating the defender off the dribble. One of the primary purposes of a good offense is to create mismatches. Getting a smaller defender on a bigger player and vice versa. If you don't have the players capable of taking advantage of those mismatches, your offense is severely limited. Not to mention all of the wide open looks that are created when a defense has to rotate to help stop penetration. It is also much easier to defend a team on the perimeter if you are not concerned about penetration. Finally, one of the issues with our offense has been an inability to get to the foul line. It's a great way to score points when your outside shot is not falling and driving to the basket is the best way to draw fouls.

We struggled last year because McIntosh's shot was not falling and he was really the only player that could get into the lane and create opportunities for other players. Too often, he was stuck holding the ball with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock. We need more players that can break down a defense in the flow of the offense or create space to get their own shot.

 

[NURoseBowl]

Let's use some reason here:

1) Michael Thompson is your "Duke" example, which as others have pointed out, was a transfer that barely played at Duke, and wasn't a huge difference maker for us either.
2) Reggie Hearn, who I am a huge fan of, was a walk on that has worked his way to becoming basically a G League player that has played a few minutes in a couple NBA games. His story is great, and I root for him hard, but he's a borderline NBA talent at best.

Even you have to admit that these are incredibly weak examples that you are propping any argument up on. On top of that, Carmody had 12 years to breed those two examples, while Collins' first recruiting class just played their last game a month ago. Yes, there does not appear to be a future NBA player on the current roster, but let's see where we're at after 12 years

I have no issue with you having a different opinion than others, but these are really weak arguments that are huge stretches.

Nail, meet hammer.

 

[clarificationcat]

Fact is, BC landed a kid with a Duke offer, and landed NBA talent. CC10P hasn’t done either.... by a mile.

Hence, 3 tenths and one ninth finish, and if Smithee’s preseason poll is correct, we can add a 13th soon.

Nice upgrade so far.


The trick now for CC, is to avoid the 0-fers.. This was the BC recruiting problem (and every NU coach’s problem ever). The BC - CC first 5-7 players talent level is basically a wash, overall. You could find exceptions of course by picking the best and the worst if you just want to be silly, but basically lots of guys (even KO), sometimes had 4, or so, really good B10 players.

But for every vukusic, shurna, Nash, Crawford, Esch, law, mac, Moore..... there were all the guys we spent 4 (or however many), scholarship years on that either A), never panned our, or B) left before they paid dividends. Some good we wished we had back, some just misses, we were happy to see gone.

Thompson, Parker, Coble, maley, Cote, fruendt, pelusic, , Brown, ash, vassar, rap......

A poster once did a calc of how many great senior seasons we’d lost from guys, and how many scholy-seasons, sat the bench during BC. We’re getting there fast now.

So, we’re in that danger zone which takes years to recover from. Classes get way of balance. Injuries loom huge. You take a transfer, then a grad transfer, then next year you lose s transfer, then you need to find 5 or 6 incoming guys, etc. or you're perpetually playing 2 or 3 guys under the limit. A guy gets hurt... ya lose 8 in a row.

Even Kentucky went to the Nit and failed to win a game recently (although there 0-fers and lack of balanced classes were for a slightly different reason than ours ever were, unfortunately)

But CC needs to instill some rhyme and reason to this scenario fast. Because we’re an injury and a transfer away from being behind the curve for a long while. Fingers crossed.

CC needs stability and incremental growth now. Tourney invite overshadows 4 bad years. New arena. Long contract. Lots of player turnover. He needs to be calm and play the long game, or take a better job if he wants. But if he wants to stay, then he needs to start stabilizing things.

The ridiculousness of your posts never cease to amaze me. I do have to point out that in Collins' third year, without Vic Law, the team finished 20-12 and 8-10 in the conference. If that is a bad year for NU, than I assume we have to conclude all 13 years that Carmody coached were bad years. Please spare me the NIT discussion again. Literally, no one other than you and the NIT committee cares about the NIT.

 

[NURoseBowl]

I fear you are not understanding what I am saying. I am not saying that we need to change our style of play and recruit a bunch of guys who will go one on one all the time. And I have no idea how being able to beat a guy off the dribble and creating your own shot is related to being experienced or playing defense.

I fully expect that we will continue to run a structured offense. But at every level of basketball, you need to have at least a couple of players that are capable of creating their own shots to have consistent success. Even the best run offenses are not going to create wide open looks every possession, particularly against good defenses. I watched the title game and Michigan had several layups and good shots created simply by one of their players beating the defender off the dribble. One of the primary purposes of a good offense is to create mismatches. Getting a smaller defender on a bigger player and vice versa. If you don't have the players capable of taking advantage of those mismatches, your offense is severely limited. Not to mention all of the wide open looks that are created when a defense has to rotate to help stop penetration. It is also much easier to defend a team on the perimeter if you are not concerned about penetration. Finally, one of the issues with our offense has been an inability to get to the foul line. It's a great way to score points when your outside shot is not falling and driving to the basket is the best way to draw fouls.

We struggled last year because McIntosh's shot was not falling and he was really the only player that could get into the lane and create opportunities for other players. Too often, he was stuck holding the ball with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock. We need more players that can break down a defense in the flow of the offense or create space to get their own shot.

Yes. Exactly this - I couldn't have said it better myself (and I mean that ). Don't need half a dozen dribble penetrators, but having at least a couple is a huge plus - if not, in fact, essential. In addition to all these things Clarificationcat mentions, breaking a press is yet another important area where a couple of guys with "plus" quicks and solid handles can make a major difference.

 

[NURoseBowl]

Ya but look at Loyola! Winning 30 games, with the same level of recruits as NU! All coaching

No knock on the Valley, Wrassler - and I love what Loyola did - but even a "down" Big Ten is a bit tougher, night in and night out, than the Missouri Valley. I won't go so far as to exaggerate that it's apples and oranges . . . but it's not exactly the same thing. Remember, even after winning the regular season MVC title, they still had to win the conference tournament just to get an NCAA invite.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I fear you are not understanding what I am saying. I am not saying that we need to change our style of play and recruit a bunch of guys who will go one on one all the time. And I have no idea how being able to beat a guy off the dribble and creating your own shot is related to being experienced or playing defense.

I fully expect that we will continue to run a structured offense. But at every level of basketball, you need to have at least a couple of players that are capable of creating their own shots to have consistent success. Even the best run offenses are not going to create wide open looks every possession, particularly against good defenses. I watched the title game and Michigan had several layups and good shots created simply by one of their players beating the defender off the dribble. One of the primary purposes of a good offense is to create mismatches. Getting a smaller defender on a bigger player and vice versa. If you don't have the players capable of taking advantage of those mismatches, your offense is severely limited. Not to mention all of the wide open looks that are created when a defense has to rotate to help stop penetration. It is also much easier to defend a team on the perimeter if you are not concerned about penetration. Finally, one of the issues with our offense has been an inability to get to the foul line. It's a great way to score points when your outside shot is not falling and driving to the basket is the best way to draw fouls.

We struggled last year because McIntosh's shot was not falling and he was really the only player that could get into the lane and create opportunities for other players. Too often, he was stuck holding the ball with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock. We need more players that can break down a defense in the flow of the offense or create space to get their own shot.

Exactly to put in like 2 sentences a good offense is run to get guys in mismatches where they can beat their man one on one. Then someone either as to help and they pass to the open man or no one helps and they score.

 

[willycat]

Fact is, BC landed a kid with a Duke offer, and landed NBA talent. CC10P hasn’t done either.... by a mile.

Hence, 3 tenths and one ninth finish, and if Smithee’s preseason poll is correct, we can add a 13th soon.

Nice upgrade so far.


The trick now for CC, is to avoid the 0-fers.. This was the BC recruiting problem (and every NU coach’s problem ever). The BC - CC first 5-7 players talent level is basically a wash, overall. You could find exceptions of course by picking the best and the worst if you just want to be silly, but basically lots of guys (even KO), sometimes had 4, or so, really good B10 players.

But for every vukusic, shurna, Nash, Crawford, Esch, law, mac, Moore..... there were all the guys we spent 4 (or however many), scholarship years on that either A), never panned our, or B) left before they paid dividends. Some good we wished we had back, some just misses, we were happy to see gone.

Thompson, Parker, Coble, maley, Cote, fruendt, pelusic, , Brown, ash, vassar, rap......

A poster once did a calc of how many great senior seasons we’d lost from guys, and how many scholy-seasons, sat the bench during BC. We’re getting there fast now.

So, we’re in that danger zone which takes years to recover from. Classes get way of balance. Injuries loom huge. You take a transfer, then a grad transfer, then next year you lose s transfer, then you need to find 5 or 6 incoming guys, etc. or you're perpetually playing 2 or 3 guys under the limit. A guy gets hurt... ya lose 8 in a row.

Even Kentucky went to the Nit and failed to win a game recently (although there 0-fers and lack of balanced classes were for a slightly different reason than ours ever were, unfortunately)

But CC needs to instill some rhyme and reason to this scenario fast. Because we’re an injury and a transfer away from being behind the curve for a long while. Fingers crossed.

CC needs stability and incremental growth now. Tourney invite overshadows 4 bad years. New arena. Long contract. Lots of player turnover. He needs to be calm and play the long game, or take a better job if he wants. But if he wants to stay, then he needs to start stabilizing things.

Mystic do you realize that your Carmody love letters just get dumb and dumber. You just hate Collins because he replaced your hero, we get that. Still your lumping Coble in as a failure with the likes of Maley and Cote is just plain stupid.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

LOL. Fail. MT-1 was a transfer from Duke. How did that work out for us?

BC failed at NU largely due to a lack of effort and interest in recruiting. He landed some good talent occasionally, but that was more from the effort of his assistants such as Tavaras Hardy. In his first 5 seasons as NU head coach, BC had a winning season once. In 13 seasons, BC never had a winning record in the B1G, achieving .500 once. By contrast "CC10P" in his first 5 seasons at NU has already taken the team to the NCAA tournament for the first time EVER, has two 20-win seasons including the school record for wins, has an overall winning record (88-77), and is a dedicated recruiter.

Collins has the program on an upward trajectory with potentially his best recruiting class yet. I get it, FANZ WANT MOAR, but I believe the best is yet ahead for this program under CCNCAA.

Plus we got Ash coming back with Law and Pardon.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

No knock on the Valley, Wrassler - and I love what Loyola did - but even a "down" Big Ten is a bit tougher, night in and night out, than the Missouri Valley. I won't go so far as to exaggerate that it's apples and oranges . . . but it's not exactly the same thing. Remember, even after winning the regular season MVC title, they still had to win the conference tournament just to get an NCAA invite.

I hear ya. Still.loyola would have given NU all they can handle this year
Our only chance would be a healthy BMac,Ash,and Law during midseason.

 

[MysticCat]

Let's use some reason here:

1) Michael Thompson is your "Duke" example, which as others have pointed out, was a transfer that barely played at Duke, and wasn't a huge difference maker for us either.
2) Reggie Hearn, who I am a huge fan of, was a walk on that has worked his way to becoming basically a G League player that has played a few minutes in a couple NBA games. His story is great, and I root for him hard, but he's a borderline NBA talent at best.

Even you have to admit that these are incredibly weak examples that you are propping any argument up on. On top of that, Carmody had 12 years to breed those two examples, while Collins' first recruiting class just played their last game a month ago. Yes, there does not appear to be a future NBA player on the current roster, but let's see where we're at after 12 years

I have no issue with you having a different opinion than others, but these are really weak arguments that are huge stretches.

I don’t have a “different opinion” than others.

He got a kid with a Duke offer and got a kid who ended up in the NBA. CC has never done either.

No opinion offered there.

It’s laughable and expected that people here would basically respond - yeah, but it wasn’t Duke”s all time “best” player, and he’s not the “greatest” player in the NBA history and other weak attempts to spin.

Facts are facts.

169 RPI and another 10th place finish are facts.

If we landed a kid with a Duke offer tomorrow, this place would be doing backflips off the roof.

10th, half a decade in, picked 13th in the Big next year. 169th in the country!!! with all his own “better, more athletic recruits.”

So let’s dice and splice two flat out, incontrovertible facts about 2 BC guys’ accomplishments to pass the time, and mince words about Duke and the NBA. And act like we’re all super psyched by a third 10th place in 5 tries, and a projection of 13th next year. Halfway through BC’s length of time, we’re picked 13th.

Hmmm....

 

[MysticCat]

Mystic do you realize that your Carmody love letters just get dumb and dumber. You just hate Collins because he replaced your hero, we get that. Still your lumping Coble in as a failure with the likes of Maley and Cote is just plain stupid.

They weren’t lumped in as failures: they are examples of guys who didn’t play all their available years.

 

[MysticCat]

LOL. Fail. MT-1 was a transfer from Duke. How did that work out for us?

BC failed at NU largely due to a lack of effort and interest in recruiting. He landed some good talent occasionally, but that was more from the effort of his assistants such as Tavaras Hardy. In his first 5 seasons as NU head coach, BC had a winning season once. In 13 seasons, BC never had a winning record in the B1G, achieving .500 once. By contrast "CC10P" in his first 5 seasons at NU has already taken the team to the NCAA tournament for the first time EVER, has two 20-win seasons including the school record for wins, has an overall winning record (88-77), and is a dedicated recruiter.

Collins has the program on an upward trajectory with potentially his best recruiting class yet. I get it, FANZ WANT MOAR, but I believe the best is yet ahead for this program under CCNCAA.

How did that work out for us?

Great. Look at our record in games he played.

 

[Medill90]

I don’t have a “different opinion” than others.

He got a kid with a Duke offer and got a kid who ended up in the NBA. CC has never done either.

No opinion offered there.

It’s laughable and expected that people here would basically respond - yeah, but it wasn’t Duke”s all time “best” player, and he’s not the “greatest” player in the NBA history and other weak attempts to spin.

Facts are facts.

169 RPI and another 10th place finish are facts.

If we landed a kid with a Duke offer tomorrow, this place would be doing backflips off the roof.

10th, half a decade in, picked 13th in the Big next year. 169th in the country!!! with all his own “better, more athletic recruits.”

So let’s dice and splice two flat out, incontrovertible facts about 2 BC guys’ accomplishments to pass the time, and mince words about Duke and the NBA. And act like we’re all super psyched by a third 10th place in 5 tries, and a projection of 13th next year. Halfway through BC’s length of time, we’re picked 13th.

Hmmm....

...with a straight face you're trying to suggest that NU out recruited Duke for a player? Duke tossed a player onto the trash heap and NU collected what was left. Which wasn't a lot IIRC.

That's like me saying I made out with Scarlett Johanson because I got a kiss on the cheek from a maitre de at a restaurant she frequents because when my wife made the reservation she noted "husband's birthday."

Yeah, I made out with Scarlett Johanson but none of you schmucks did.

 

[NJCat]

I hear ya. Still.loyola would have given NU all they can handle this year.

Heck, Loyola of Maryland gave NU all they could handle last year, NU narrowly won 79-75 giving up 51 second half points! Dang!!!!