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Difference between a real Championship caliber Program and Northwestern

Northwestern University’s primary “task” is to educate and graduate all of its student athletes. You may not realize or agree with that but that’s NU’s primary focus. If you are waiting for that to change, you’ll be sadly disappointed.
Then maybe alert the B1G participants because to share revenue with a school whose job is to,"educate and graduate all of its student athletes.", maybe means NU is in the wrong conference. And perhaps we should return our cut of the TV/Bowl money.

Perhaps why even waste the money in any sports? The only way you can truly "educate and graduate all of its student athletes." is NOT having these students be their educational endeavors distracted by sports. How noble that NU is the ONLY school in FBS that sees sports as non-revenue generating or as a marketing tool for the university. And NU is the ONLY school where student athletes get can get degrees. Nobody has EVER graduated from Alabama, Michigan, Oklahoma, or Notre Dame... (eyes rolling)

Why get upset about the staff, recruiting, and records when (according to you) all we need is one coach and 10 academic advisors? Maybe we could charge fans to watch these kids take economics? And new stadium? For what...
 
Then maybe alert the B1G participants because to share revenue with a school whose job is to,"educate and graduate all of its student athletes.", maybe means NU is in the wrong conference. And perhaps we should return our cut of the TV/Bowl money.

Perhaps why even waste the money in any sports? The only way you can truly "educate and graduate all of its student athletes." is NOT having these students be their educational endeavors distracted by sports. How noble that NU is the ONLY school in FBS that sees sports as non-revenue generating or as a marketing tool for the university. And NU is the ONLY school where student athletes get can get degrees. Nobody has EVER graduated from Alabama, Michigan, Oklahoma, or Notre Dame... (eyes rolling)

Why get upset about the staff, recruiting, and records when (according to you) all we need is one coach and 10 academic advisors? Maybe we could charge fans to watch these kids take economics? And new stadium? For what...

LOL, get your facts straight buddy. NU has been more than holding their own in the Fitz era when it comes to winning games, including post season success. There are plenty of other teams in the Big Ten that should be scrutinized before NU.

Separately, why is it that we have a bunch of new posters on these boards who are completely clueless and whose posts sound eerily similar to some of our other resident clown posters? Either we have a bunch of new loser trolls on the board with nothing better to do with their time or we have another case of the board clowns posting under multiple handles. LouV and Florida, time to take out the trash. These boards are becoming insufferable because of these clowns.
 
Northwestern University’s primary “task” is to educate and graduate all of its student athletes. You may not realize or agree with that but that’s NU’s primary focus. If you are waiting for that to change, you’ll be sadly disappointed.
Sure thought the football teams primary focus is to WIN games!
 
LOL, get your facts straight buddy. NU has been more than holding their own in the Fitz era when it comes to winning games, including post season success. There are plenty of other teams in the Big Ten that should be scrutinized before NU.

Separately, why is it that we have a bunch of new posters on these boards who are completely clueless and whose posts sound eerily similar to some of our other resident clown posters? Either we have a bunch of new loser trolls on the board with nothing better to do with their time or we have another case of the board clowns posting under multiple handles. LouV and Florida, time to take out the trash. These boards are becoming insufferable because of these clowns.
Agree with both of Corbi's posts above, although I cannot line up with paragraph 2 here without further proof.

Further, holding your own is better than holding someone else's
 
LOL, get your facts straight buddy. NU has been more than holding their own in the Fitz era when it comes to winning games, including post season success. There are plenty of other teams in the Big Ten that should be scrutinized before NU.

Separately, why is it that we have a bunch of new posters on these boards who are completely clueless and whose posts sound eerily similar to some of our other resident clown posters? Either we have a bunch of new loser trolls on the board with nothing better to do with their time or we have another case of the board clowns posting under multiple handles. LouV and Florida, time to take out the trash. These boards are becoming insufferable because of these clowns.
Fitz is sub-.500 in B1G play. Only IU is on a worse down-stroke than NU with at least a glimmer of upside.

Its cute that a dissenting non-worship of "king-Fitzy" here de-evolves into "clown/troll" comments. Meanwhile the B1G can now count playing us as an automatic W. You like the "lovable loser" doing it the "right way" crowd. So be it.

Meanwhile other programs get stronger with coaching and recruiting while you chain yourself to a coach who can't make obvious program decisions despite glaring evidence that the direction is downward.

There is a name for people like you. I'll refrain from using it.
 
The academic standards are an excuse. It limits our pool for sure, but there are enough great student athletes that make a pool sufficient to field a team that can contend. In a way it makes it easier for us though we have to recruit nationally, we have natural filters from which to base our targeting. The degree is also a positive and differentiator for the type of student athlete that we can attract. We have been able to bring enough talent to have been ranked as high as #3 and #8 as recently as 2 years ago. We just need the right coaches in place (which I'm not sure we have, in terms of coordinators).

If Stanford can recruit top 20 classes, then certainly we can. Barnett showed that we could recruit top 20 classes at NU, and that was without the best facilities in the nation. It's not easy, but it's not impossible.
Agreed. Every top 10 football program has starter(s) who academically qualify for NU.

For the Corbis of the world who are too smug to acknowledge that; this is the problem. To assume the only academically capable DI football players are at NU is laughable.
 
So now boosters have found a way to surreptitiously hand fistfuls of cash to recruits, NIL. Remember when football booster car dealerships were shady?
 
Agreed. Every top 10 football program has starter(s) who academically qualify for NU.

For the Corbis of the world who are too smug to acknowledge that; this is the problem. To assume the only academically capable DI football players are at NU is laughable.

Hey clown show, who ever said that? The challenge is not to run a football program with SOME players who fully embrace the mantra of being a true student athlete. The challenge is to strive to set up a program and an environment where EVERY player is encouraged and given the tools to do their best academically so that they can get their degree and become productive members of society whenever football ends. There is no coach or program in America that does that better than Fitz and NU. That is something all TRUE NU fans should be proud of.
 
There is no coach or program in America that does that better than Fitz and NU. That is something all TRUE NU fans should be proud of.
Just for fun I will name three programs that make this statement ring ridiculous:
1. West Point (8-4) Bowl Eligible
2. US Naval Academy 4-8
3. US Air Force Air Force Academy (9-3) Bowl Eligible
All three have way harder academic and social challenges than NU and CLEARLY produce more productive members of society... Notably they have all made changes at the head coach or coordinator position during 'King Fitzy's' reign...

Ken Niumatalolo has been at Navy 14 seasons and has a .581 winning record. and the winningest coach in the history of Navy football. He isn't paid as much as Fitz and certainly does not have the facilities or resources of KF.
 
Fitz is sub-.500 in B1G play.
Whoever you are, you need a history lesson. The last coach with a winning Big Ten record at NU was Lynn "Pappy" Waldorf from 1935-46. As historic a coach as he was, Gary Barnett finished 23-31 in the Big Ten here including an 0-8 in his last season. Randy Walker, as innovative an offensive coach as he was, was 24-32, and, by the way, with BTN on board now, the league has gotten a lot more balanced than it was then. Barnett and Walker were 0-5 in bowls, Fitz has won 5 of his last 6, all over power5 teams. Even the great Ara Parseghian went 21-31 in the Big Ten at NU before jumping into his hall of fame stint at Notre Dame. Fitz's unparalleled overall success here has given him a long leash. The pressure is on after this dismal campaign. Let's see how he responds, using one of his favorite words.
 
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Just for fun I will name three programs that make this statement ring ridiculous:
1. West Point (8-4) Bowl Eligible
2. US Naval Academy 4-8
3. US Air Force Air Force Academy (9-3) Bowl Eligible
All three have way harder academic and social challenges than NU and CLEARLY produce more productive members of society... Notably they have all made changes at the head coach or coordinator position during 'King Fitzy's' reign...

Ken Niumatalolo has been at Navy 14 seasons and has a .581 winning record. and the winningest coach in the history of Navy football. He isn't paid as much as Fitz and certainly does not have the facilities or resources of KF.
Just for fun I will name three programs that make this statement ring ridiculous:
1. West Point (8-4) Bowl Eligible
2. US Naval Academy 4-8
3. US Air Force Air Force Academy (9-3) Bowl Eligible
All three have way harder academic and social challenges than NU and CLEARLY produce more productive members of society... Notably they have all made changes at the head coach or coordinator position during 'King Fitzy's' reign...

Ken Niumatalolo has been at Navy 14 seasons and has a .581 winning record. and the winningest coach in the history of Navy football. He isn't paid as much as Fitz and certainly does not have the facilities or resources of KF.
The only thing that is ridiculous around here is you. NU football has ranked in the top 3 for APR in all of FBS for the last ten consecutive years. Since I am sure you have no clue, APR stands for Academic Progress Rate and is the standard by which NCAA athletic programs are judged by. No one produces top level student/athletes better than FItz and NU. NO ONE.
 
The only thing that is ridiculous around here is you. NU football has ranked in the top 3 for APR in all of FBS for the last ten consecutive years. Since I am sure you have no clue, APR stands for Academic Progress Rate and is the standard by which NCAA athletic programs are judged by. No one produces top level student/athletes better than FItz and NU. NO ONE.
Also, I mean, if somebody wants to argue that only service academies produce even more impressive and productive student athletes than NU, I’m willing to concede arguing the point and let it stand as testimony to the sort of hyper-elite student athletes company NU is keeping.

I’d also ask how many power 5 division championships and 10 win seasons those teams have recently won. We can have critical conversations about the inconsistency from year to year, but we should also have a realistic perception of the small number peers we have in terms of upside as well.
 
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Just for fun I will name three programs that make this statement ring ridiculous:
1. West Point (8-4) Bowl Eligible
2. US Naval Academy 4-8
3. US Air Force Air Force Academy (9-3) Bowl Eligible
All three have way harder academic and social challenges than NU and CLEARLY produce more productive members of society... Notably they have all made changes at the head coach or coordinator position during 'King Fitzy's' reign...

Ken Niumatalolo has been at Navy 14 seasons and has a .581 winning record. and the winningest coach in the history of Navy football. He isn't paid as much as Fitz and certainly does not have the facilities or resources of KF.
Let's say we played all three service academies every year during Fitz's tenure. Don't give me any one-off's "Army beat us in 2011". I know - I was at the game. I think it's fair to say, conservatively, that we'd have an overall winning record against what you are apparently holding up as peer institutions. In fact, I believe we'd dominate the series, having 3 games a year against the triple option would make it easier to prepare. I'd say, on average, we'd win 2 of 3 over that period.

Other peer schools, Duke, Vandy, Stanford, all suck right now, I don't know why. What I DO know is I don't want us to sell our soul like Baylor, who has no academic (or, apparently, criminal record) standards when recruiting players or coaches.

There is a guy on Inside NU, named AyanKB or something. All he does is b1tch about Fitz. If we win the West, we should have beaten OSU. If we suck (2019 and this year), he is shouting from the rooftops that Fitz needs to be fired. I think you are that guy.

I'm as frustrated at Fitz as the next guy, but he's not going anywhere.
 
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Let's say we played all three service academies every year during Fitz's tenure. Don't give me any one-off's "Army beat us in 2011". I know - I was at the game. I think it's fair to say, conservatively, that we'd have an overall winning record against what you are apparently holding up as peer institutions. In fact, I believe we'd dominate the series, having 3 games a year against the triple option would make it easier to prepare. I'd say, on average, we'd win 2 of 3 over that period.

Other peer schools, Duke, Vandy, Stanford, all suck right now, I don't know why. What I DO know is I don't want us to sell our soul like Baylor, who has no academic (or, apparently, criminal record) standards when recruiting players or coaches.

There is a guy on Inside NU, named AyanKB or something. All he does is b1tch about Fitz. If we win the West, we should have beaten OSU. If we suck (2019 and this year), he is shouting from the rooftops that Fitz needs to be fired. I think you are that guy.

I'm as frustrated at Fitz as the next guy, but he's not going anywhere.
The brain dead commentariat at Inside NU, with that guy a particular standout, was a major factor in me taking the dive to this site. There are a few decent people to talk to there, but there’s a lot of just insanely dumb comments.
 
There is a guy on Inside NU, named AyanKB or something. All he does is b1tch about Fitz. If we win the West, we should have beaten OSU. If we suck (2019 and this year), he is shouting from the rooftops that Fitz needs to be fired. I think you are that guy.
Ryanfield posts on Inside NU. I definitely thought Turk and Ayan were the same person for a while though.
 
Ryanfield posts on Inside NU. I definitely thought Turk and Ayan were the same person for a while though.
I don't think Turk and Ryan are the same. Ayan is a total one-note conversation killer, but he's not just a completely unserious troll to the point of very likely making all his posts as an intentional form of irritating internet humor like Turk and Ignore are. Very different tone to their posts.

Of course, I blocked Turk after reading like three of his posts, so maybe I'm wrong 🤣
 
Turk had some great material involving the one-armed recruit.
I'm sure he has some entertaining stuff, there's just only so many hours in the day and he doesn't fit into what I'm looking for out of my time invested here.
 
I like reading his stuff. Over the top? Sure. But I do think he wants us to win.
You are in the minority. I’d venture to guess that Turk and Ignore are the two posters on this board who have been put on ignore by the most amount of posters. They are trolls in the purest sense of the word. LouV and Florida should have banned both a long time ago.
 
Whoever you are, you need a history lesson. The last coach with a winning Big Ten record at NU was Lynn "Pappy" Waldorf from 1935-46. As historic a coach as he was, Gary Barnett finished 23-31 in the Big Ten here including an 0-8 in his last season. Randy Walker, as innovative an offensive coach as he was, was 24-32, and, by the way, with BTN on board now, the league has gotten a lot more balanced than it was then. Barnett and Walker were 0-5 in bowls, Fitz has won 5 of his last 6, all over power5 teams. Even the great Ara Parseghian went 21-31 in the Big Ten at NU before jumping into his hall of fame stint at Notre Dame. Fitz's unparalleled overall success here has given him a long leash. The pressure is on after this dismal campaign. Let's see how he responds, using one of his favorite words.
Being better than historically bad predecessors doesn't give you a job for life. I don't understand that logic when the facts upon us are at hand. How good would George Washington be as President in a world where the internet, social awareness, and nuclear weapons are present. See? See how absurd that sounds?

Is the B1G the same today as that of Ara Parseghian or Gary Barnett? Fitz is not a coach for 2020s NCAA FBS football. While other programs reload (with coaches and recruits) and we pay top dollar & provide top notch facilities; I find him wanting as a leader of this program. He shows no ability to adapt and evolve.

I can handle the losses but how we've lost and the culpability he has in the state of things is my issue. We have seen this over a decade and it never changes. Every topic from offensive output, recruiting, coaching, & winning rests on this top-percentile paid head coach. I have (amongst others) seen enough to know that this story won't be better in 2022.
 
LOL, when your argument has been completely dismantled, change the subject. Buzz off clown, your crap doesn’t fly here.
Again. Everything you've said is about calling me a clown. PLEASE. Just block me. You haven't dismantled jack my friend. Take a break. Re-read what I've posted and your insults. Man I hope you're better than that.

If you can factually refute my opinion fine, but, you're not going to bully me with insults. I don't agree with you but I'm not going to insult you or tell you that you have no right to post here. 3-8 is okay with you. okay... Its not with me and I have a right to state my viewpoint.

Oh quick update. I've ignored you. Problem fixed. Have a good one.
 
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You are in the minority. I’d venture to guess that Turk and Ignore are the two posters on this board who have been put on ignore by the most amount of posters. They are trolls in the purest sense of the word. LouV and Florida should have banned both a long time ago.
There's a guy that has changed his handle a number of times, but every time I figure out who the new handle is...ignore. Uses up all of our exclamation points.
 
We have seen this over a decade
Two division championships and five bowl wins. I'll take more of that in a heartbeat. Yes, football is constantly evolving and Fitz needs to roll with the times, but it's a little early to give up on a coach with that track record, especially at NU with its track record.
 
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Being better than historically bad predecessors doesn't give you a job for life. I don't understand that logic when the facts upon us are at hand. How good would George Washington be as President in a world where the internet, social awareness, and nuclear weapons are present. See? See how absurd that sounds?

Is the B1G the same today as that of Ara Parseghian or Gary Barnett? Fitz is not a coach for 2020s NCAA FBS football. While other programs reload (with coaches and recruits) and we pay top dollar & provide top notch facilities; I find him wanting as a leader of this program. He shows no ability to adapt and evolve.

I can handle the losses but how we've lost and the culpability he has in the state of things is my issue. We have seen this over a decade and it never changes. Every topic from offensive output, recruiting, coaching, & winning rests on this top-percentile paid head coach. I have (amongst others) seen enough to know that this story won't be better in 2022.
Not sure where you are headed here. Do you assert that that Ara, Barney, Walker and Waldorf were "bad predecessors"? If so, do you further assert that Fitz is simply the 'tallest midget' amongst our all-time coaching ranks. Because, surely, those guys were our best. Finally, if so, it sounds as if you are advocating some major shift, and to - somehow - identify and hire a coach that can take us to the level of winning the division every year.

Pretty straightforward, but with all sorts of complexities. Sometimes it works out, Stanford hiring Hairball gave them enough momentum to be in the upper tier for a decade, although they are back in the doldrums. Matt Campbell has, for the moment, brought ISU to levels unknown. Simple, hire a successful MAC coach, like Fleck or Campbell. Except, remember that Campbell's predecessor was our well-loved Tim Beckman. Or, you get a guy like Franklin, like Vandy did. A loathsome guy but successful coach. Then, he has a couple of good years and leaves. Or you can extend him like MSU did with Tucker for a cool $90M. And, no matter how successful your program and how much money you will pay (See ND), there is always some program that will back up the truck and hire the person away. Losing a good coach is better than keeping a sucky coach, but you get the idea. Now you're back in the market again.

I'm not advocating "Fitz for life" and I feel he needs to be accountable for failure just as he is showered with praise when the team is successful. But - the roadsides are littered with the carcasses of high cost, unsuccessful coaches. I'm personally ok with some occasional "lows" to go with the highs we've had, which are ok for me. But - to have 2 of 3 years of sucking, and another likely to follow, and no apparent changes, Gragg needs to warm up Fitz's seat. Hairball took a pay cut, Frost did, others have. It is de rigueur for struggling coaches. This is one of those times when it is 100.00% appropriate and literal to say to Fitz: "put your money where your mouth is".
 
Not sure where you are headed here. Do you assert that that Ara, Barney, Walker and Waldorf were "bad predecessors"? If so, do you further assert that Fitz is simply the 'tallest midget' amongst our all-time coaching ranks. Because, surely, those guys were our best. Finally, if so, it sounds as if you are advocating some major shift, and to - somehow - identify and hire a coach that can take us to the level of winning the division every year.
I think the argument is that comparing Fitz to his predecessors isn't a fair comparison because of how much more support he has, and how much more seriously NU is trying to compete in football as an institution.

I agree with your second two paragraphs. It's an incredibly slippery slope if you decide Fitz isn't good enough. It's why your third paragraph is the option Gragg has to go down. This all or nothing false choice with regards to Fitz's power and control has to stop. We have to be willing to lose Fitz if his ego will not allow him to compromise (my personal opinion is that Fitz would compromise, but I get that it's a compromised opinion because it makes what I'm calling for more successful). Becoming more mainstream and merit-based in his assistant coaching hires, and renovating the offense are needed changes. Fitz had a great argument that he'd raised the floor of the team and that we had to accept a boring offense as part of that. 2019+21 has destroyed that premise. Frankly he should hire the most accomplished DC he can, and install their scheme. Hankwitz's defense without Hankwitz is a pathetic knockoff.
 
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I’m serious. Why do trolls bother people so much? Eleanor Roosevelt said something to the effect that you cannot insult me without my permission. I freely admit that I often fail to follow her advice, but I try.
 
Two division championships and five bowl wins. I'll take more of that in a heartbeat. Yes, football is constantly evolving and Fitz needs to roll with the times, but it's a little early to give up on a coach with that track record, especially at NU with its track record.
People who lived through the Dark Ages understand what a monumental undertaking it has been to build a winner and sustain it at NU. Fitz has done that, and getting coach of the year honors to add to his all-time wins record at NU. But the bar has been raised, and Fitz needs to win MOAR becuz fanz wont MOAR!

Ironically, I think Fitz has actually been trying to morph to a more "modern" approach, hiring an OC with NFL experience and a young DC from the NFL with the latest schemes like the 4-2-5. With the right personnel (QB), he showed the offense could be effective in 2020, though not great. Of course the new defense has been a major dumpster fire in its first season, and we'll see how he adopts his approach going forward.
 
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Not sure where you are headed here. Do you assert that that Ara, Barney, Walker and Waldorf were "bad predecessors"? If so, do you further assert that Fitz is simply the 'tallest midget' amongst our all-time coaching ranks. Because, surely, those guys were our best. Finally, if so, it sounds as if you are advocating some major shift, and to - somehow - identify and hire a coach that can take us to the level of winning the division every year.

Pretty straightforward, but with all sorts of complexities. Sometimes it works out, Stanford hiring Hairball gave them enough momentum to be in the upper tier for a decade, although they are back in the doldrums. Matt Campbell has, for the moment, brought ISU to levels unknown. Simple, hire a successful MAC coach, like Fleck or Campbell. Except, remember that Campbell's predecessor was our well-loved Tim Beckman. Or, you get a guy like Franklin, like Vandy did. A loathsome guy but successful coach. Then, he has a couple of good years and leaves. Or you can extend him like MSU did with Tucker for a cool $90M. And, no matter how successful your program and how much money you will pay (See ND), there is always some program that will back up the truck and hire the person away. Losing a good coach is better than keeping a sucky coach, but you get the idea. Now you're back in the market again.

I'm not advocating "Fitz for life" and I feel he needs to be accountable for failure just as he is showered with praise when the team is successful. But - the roadsides are littered with the carcasses of high cost, unsuccessful coaches. I'm personally ok with some occasional "lows" to go with the highs we've had, which are ok for me. But - to have 2 of 3 years of sucking, and another likely to follow, and no apparent changes, Gragg needs to warm up Fitz's seat. Hairball took a pay cut, Frost did, others have. It is de rigueur for struggling coaches. This is one of those times when it is 100.00% appropriate and literal to say to Fitz: "put your money where your mouth is".
I support a lot of what you've said here. Many of the coaches you've mentioned are great examples. Franklin was a "save/resurrect-the-program hire" for PSU. Now that he is in the money its now, "B1G champion and Playoff" expectations. The Bears fired a 10-win Lovie Smith because fans wanted to be in the play-off NFC championship scenario each year. I remember the Chiefs with Marty Schottenheimer. He couldn't take them to that next level.

I expect Fitz to be at a floor of 6 wins a year and bowl-bound. If things go well we go to Indy where we lose to an East opponent. But IF we have a down year its close game losses and an awry bounce of a ball or key injury. This year all of it is on him. Cam Porter wasn't saving this season. HJ was named a starter and he wasn't 3rd string by the end of the year. The defense was unprepared, outclassed, and over-matched most games.

This is the first year where I felt like this team could not compete and essentially gave up. It looks like he lost this team completely. Based on the evidence I don't see any field leadership or changes with coaches that's going to fix this.

A small example is Wyatt Blake. He starts as a DL then moves to OL in season, then goes BACK to OL, and now is in the portal. As bad as our offense was, 6'5" 216lb Genson Hooper Price gets essentially no playing time? A big target for this anemic offense doesn't play much less appear? If we miss that bad who is to blame? The kid or the coach that evaluated him?

The guy makes big-time money, has big-time resources, and has autonomy. How can we NOT hold him accountable? Especially when he bathes in credit in good years and deflects when its not. I don't want Bobby Petrino here. But I do want a stand-up accountable coach. He isn't. You named guys giving money back. Fitz hasn't done it. That would go a long way. But he thinks he did the best he could this year. That's scary.
 
I support a lot of what you've said here. Many of the coaches you've mentioned are great examples. Franklin was a "save/resurrect-the-program hire" for PSU. Now that he is in the money its now, "B1G champion and Playoff" expectations. The Bears fired a 10-win Lovie Smith because fans wanted to be in the play-off NFC championship scenario each year. I remember the Chiefs with Marty Schottenheimer. He couldn't take them to that next level.

I expect Fitz to be at a floor of 6 wins a year and bowl-bound. If things go well we go to Indy where we lose to an East opponent. But IF we have a down year its close game losses and an awry bounce of a ball or key injury. This year all of it is on him. Cam Porter wasn't saving this season. HJ was named a starter and he wasn't 3rd string by the end of the year. The defense was unprepared, outclassed, and over-matched most games.

This is the first year where I felt like this team could not compete and essentially gave up. It looks like he lost this team completely. Based on the evidence I don't see any field leadership or changes with coaches that's going to fix this.

A small example is Wyatt Blake. He starts as a DL then moves to OL in season, then goes BACK to OL, and now is in the portal. As bad as our offense was, 6'5" 216lb Genson Hooper Price gets essentially no playing time? A big target for this anemic offense doesn't play much less appear? If we miss that bad who is to blame? The kid or the coach that evaluated him?

The guy makes big-time money, has big-time resources, and has autonomy. How can we NOT hold him accountable? Especially when he bathes in credit in good years and deflects when its not. I don't want Bobby Petrino here. But I do want a stand-up accountable coach. He isn't. You named guys giving money back. Fitz hasn't done it. That would go a long way. But he thinks he did the best he could this year. That's scary.
Can’t stand the giving money back approach. Horrible look for everyone. If you have that little faith in the man, fire him. If I am a recruit, I would never consider a school like Nebraska that basically shows zero confidence in the guy and all but telegraphs that Frosty is out. He should have been fired after the season. You want money tied to performance then make an incentive laden contract.

How many of you advocating giving back salary have ever had your salary cut? I am betting very few and if you did you were on the first train out of town when the sun came out. Horrible idea.
 
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I support a lot of what you've said here. Many of the coaches you've mentioned are great examples. Franklin was a "save/resurrect-the-program hire" for PSU. Now that he is in the money its now, "B1G champion and Playoff" expectations. The Bears fired a 10-win Lovie Smith because fans wanted to be in the play-off NFC championship scenario each year. I remember the Chiefs with Marty Schottenheimer. He couldn't take them to that next level.

I expect Fitz to be at a floor of 6 wins a year and bowl-bound. If things go well we go to Indy where we lose to an East opponent. But IF we have a down year its close game losses and an awry bounce of a ball or key injury. This year all of it is on him. Cam Porter wasn't saving this season. HJ was named a starter and he wasn't 3rd string by the end of the year. The defense was unprepared, outclassed, and over-matched most games.

This is the first year where I felt like this team could not compete and essentially gave up. It looks like he lost this team completely. Based on the evidence I don't see any field leadership or changes with coaches that's going to fix this.

A small example is Wyatt Blake. He starts as a DL then moves to OL in season, then goes BACK to OL, and now is in the portal. As bad as our offense was, 6'5" 216lb Genson Hooper Price gets essentially no playing time? A big target for this anemic offense doesn't play much less appear? If we miss that bad who is to blame? The kid or the coach that evaluated him?

The guy makes big-time money, has big-time resources, and has autonomy. How can we NOT hold him accountable? Especially when he bathes in credit in good years and deflects when its not. I don't want Bobby Petrino here. But I do want a stand-up accountable coach. He isn't. You named guys giving money back. Fitz hasn't done it. That would go a long way. But he thinks he did the best he could this year. That's scary.
ok, but what do you want to do? It's a tough question, and we don't get paid $5M+ to come up with the answers. Fire Fitz and eat the cost? "one more year?" Something else?

I think this was his worst year as a coach. We had one good game, against a decent Rutgers team, and otherwise looked lost or looked like they gave up. The team looked slow and weak. The schemes were stupid. Personnel decisions were stupid. The season was a complete failure. Recruiting suffered. Portal has been a net loss. And...no changes, that we will (ever) know of.

So, what now? I've been in senior management for something like 20 years, and I know how this works in corporate America. You should have been meeting regularly with your boss, but anyway, you have a year-end review with your boss, and he gives you a crappy grade and you co-develop a remediation plan. It flows to your subordinates. So - he gets a year to fix it, to me. YOU??
 
ok, but what do you want to do? It's a tough question, and we don't get paid $5M+ to come up with the answers. Fire Fitz and eat the cost? "one more year?" Something else?

I think this was his worst year as a coach. We had one good game, against a decent Rutgers team, and otherwise looked lost or looked like they gave up. The team looked slow and weak. The schemes were stupid. Personnel decisions were stupid. The season was a complete failure. Recruiting suffered. Portal has been a net loss. And...no changes, that we will (ever) know of.

So, what now? I've been in senior management for something like 20 years, and I know how this works in corporate America. You should have been meeting regularly with your boss, but anyway, you have a year-end review with your boss, and he gives you a crappy grade and you co-develop a remediation plan. It flows to your subordinates. So - he gets a year to fix it, to me. YOU??
Leaving beside feelings on Fitz (I'm a definite Fitz backer), it would be a massive misallocation in resources in the NIL era to drop the cash on Fitz's buyout in the near future. Please don't read that to mean I don't think changes should be considered and executed.
 
Hasn’t the admissions process likely gotten stricter since Barnett’s heyday? Our academic profile has climbed over the past 25 years.

Really no different for Stanford, Dook and Vandy.

The common application really changed things.

And just like for 25 yrs ago, NU and like schools need to recruit nationally, but that has gotten easier with most games being televised nationally.

And speaking of that, those big, fat TV contracts have poured $ into the coffers of the NU athletic dept, evening the playing field somewhat when it comes to resources that coaches like Barnett didn't get to enjoy.
 
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LOL, get your facts straight buddy. NU has been more than holding their own in the Fitz era when it comes to winning games, including post season success. There are plenty of other teams in the Big Ten that should be scrutinized before NU.

Make that the Hank era; still remains to be seen how the Fitz era fares without the backbone for the past 10+ yrs.

The Fitz era also has more bad losses than just about any P5 program in large part because Fitz has not been able to fix the deficiencies on O.

If the program had just an average B1G O most years, the program would have won another 1-2 B1GW championships and wouldn't have taken so long to finally win the (let's face it) less talented division.
 
Make that the Hank era; still remains to be seen how the Fitz era fares without the backbone for the past 10+ yrs.
First of all, Fitz hired Hank and secondly, Hank NEVER went on the road to recruit. Yes, he did a terrific job coaching the talent brought in by others, but your narrative is ridiculous.
 
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^ Fitz kinda lucked into Hank (availability, and the Barnett connection), and while Hank wasn't an active recruiter, defensive players/recruits wanted to play for a DC who would put them into the best position to succeed.

It's kinda like the antithesis of the recruiting situation at the QB position.

Reason why the program keeps missing out on its top targets at the position is bc (1) the scheme is not conducive towards passing QBs and (2) the structural foundation for a QB to succeed has consistently been lacking - starting with the O-line and going to the receivers/TEs.
 
^ Fitz kinda lucked into Hank (availability, and the Barnett connection), and while Hank wasn't an active recruiter, defensive players/recruits wanted to play for a DC who would put them into the best position to succeed.

It's kinda like the antithesis of the recruiting situation at the QB position.

Reason why the program keeps missing out on its top targets at the position is bc (1) the scheme is not conducive towards passing QBs and (2) the structural foundation for a QB to succeed has consistently been lacking - starting with the O-line and going to the receivers/TEs.

Counterpoint: Kafka, Siemian, Thorson. NU has demonstrated its ability to put QBs in the league.
 
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