Because that's what fans of other programs do. It baffles me that people still respond to this douche bag...how Feli hasn't been banned permanently is still a mystery to me. He's one sick bastard.
Euphoria versus Reality
- Thread starter docrugby1
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Because that's what fans of other programs do. It baffles me that people still respond to this douche bag...how Feli hasn't been banned permanently is still a mystery to me. He's one sick bastard.
For anyone who has watched Penn State at all the past couple of years, it's become very evident that linemen have as much effect on the game as skill people.
You haven't yet understood.
My point is/was that an OL may be less AFFECTED by jet lag than skill players are, because the work of the lineman depends more on physical strength than on making tiny adjustments (like a QB or receiver)...that is, an OL missing a few hours of sleep may play closer to his normal level, than a skill player missing the same amount of sleep (other things being equal, obviously).
Nevertheless, you are right that a lineman's mistakes can be devastating to the team and/or individual teammates (possibly resulting in a drive-killing or game-ending sack, a pick-6, or even a life-threatening injury). That is NOT under discussion here.
I think Glades or anyone who has played line could tell you that OL members are constantly making adjustments during a game, often changing blocking schemes a few seconds prior to the snap based on defensive formations. Other than the QB, linemen probably have more mental adjustments to make during a game than any of the skill players.
Didn't read the word TINY, right?
I am talking about a QB making a deep pass to the right spot or a receiver catching the long pass...a tiny eye-hand-legs coordination adjustment may be the difference between the QB getting the FB to the right spot at the right time vs the receivers getting just under/over thrown....likewise, a tiny eye-hand-legs coordination adjustment may be the difference between the receiver catching the FB or tipping/dropping it....get it?
For a linemen to hold his block is of course very important (o/w the QB may not even get to make the trow to the receiver to begin with), but it is a different task, which is much more physical in nature...perhaps that is why receivers and backs are often referred as SKILL positions (as opposed to strength positions).
1) Not sure why I (or anyone else) is bothering to respond to you.
2) Playing either side of the line basically boils down to being as explosive as possible for as many reps as possible, not to mention the fine motor skills that affect things like hand placement and balance required to engage/sustain/defeat blocks.
Basically, your whole idea is preposterous and I still can't figure out why you're continuing to try to find ways to tear down our team after a solid win.
If you don't think it takes skill (as well as brains) to play offensive line, you don't really know what you're talking about. Mentally, playing wide receiver is much less taxing than playing OL. There's a reason it takes a long time to develop an effective o-line. Ask Penn State fans.
I'm embarrassed for you. A DL who makes a wrong read/move can cost you a TD just as fast and as often as a "skill" player. For example, count how many TDs are scored this year because of losing outside contain. To think that linemen don't make frequent, critical split-second decisions with huge outcome differences is so ignorant of the reality of the game that it's revealing.
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If you listen to CJ's Huddlecast, he said Thorson's TD was made possible for exactly that reason. The OLB made the wrong read and Thorson scored as a result.
FWIW, I don't feel sorry for Felis, I'm more embarrassed for him.
Once again, you are arguing the wrong point.
I AGREE with you that an OL's mistakes can be very costly, and have made that clear, even mentioning the possibility that a teammate can suffer a serious injury as a consequence.
My point was only that by the nature of their tasks, a'skill' player (QB, receiver, etc) was likely to be HIMSELF more affected by missing sleep time, jet lag and related stuff than an OL.
This has nothing to do with how costly the mistakes of each can be to their team.
OTOH, from the Stanford POV, if their linemen were equally affected by the early start as their 'skill' players that made it EVEN WORSE for them, right?
He's not... he's finding a way to get under your skin. Northwestern is not his team. Most likely it's Iowa.
Your point here is just wrong. From personal experience (and not to mention just plain common sense), sleep deprivation has negative consequences for all humans that engage in physically and mentally rigorous activities. Being mentally acute and having good reaction time is also critically important to both OL and DL play. OL and especially DL are also far more prone to physical exhaustion than any other position due to both their greater size and the nature of the exertion (i.e., a combination of physical combat and sprinting) even while well rested. When "sleepy," you're more prone to getting trucked, moving slower, reacting slower, and busting an assignment which is devastating to your team's performance.
You made the case that Stanford's performance was significantly diminished by a lack of sleep. As previously demonstrated, Stanford prepared for this early start time for a week by adjusting their practice and sleep schedules.
For the sake of argument, yes, if Stanford's players were staying out too late against their coach's orders and perhaps clubbing it in San Francisco bars to wee hours of the night or following morning all last week and practicing hung over the next morning (at 9:00 AM West coast time), you would expect a diminished performance by all position groups that engaged in this irresponsible behavior.
However, there's about as much evidence for this as there is that you're an actual Northwestern football fan. That's a way of saying there's zero evidence for it.
And my point is that your point is completely wrong. You know nothing about the nature of a skill player's or a linemen's tasks. You're correct that linemen are equally affected by circadian rhythms and therefore, are very influential to the game.
You are arguing the wrong point. Of course I agree with you that sleep deprivation negatively affect performance of all players (indeed all human beings, and probably most living beings). That is NOT the issue.
I simply suggested that linemen, having a more physical task (NOT exclusively physical, just more than other tasks) are affected less than other players, whose performance is determined by very tiny adjustments involving eye, finger, hand and legs coordination. Then again, until a rigorous scientific study on this is done no one can prove or disprove the other.
As I pointed out to you, going-to-bed times are extremely easy to control, but falling-sleep-times are a different story. In order to emulate the 4:40a gameday wake-up time while still sleeping the recommended 8-9 hours, Stanford players would have had to be sound asleep about 8PM daily...yes they may all have been IN BED at that time, but falling asleep is a different story. Many may have just started sleeping at their normal time (perhaps near mid night), and still make the early practice under reduced sleep time, making up somewhat through a midday nap....Probably something similar happened on Friday night, leading to many of them playing after only 5 or fewer hours of sleep.....see your own comments on the effects of sleep deprivation.
All those functions whether they be by the Big Uglies or the "skill players are affected. A block only has to be off by a a couple degrees and things blow up. Take off a tenth of a second late and you get clobbered and so does your RB or QB. It is bad for all and it could be that the effects on the Big Uglies might even have an even greater impact on the game.
Who's the bigger idiot: The guy who is arguing stupid points he doesn't even believe or the guy arguing with that guy?
Just don't respond. Please.
Just don't respond. Please.
I would say the guy arguing the stupid points he doesn't believe, unless you think someone like MRCat95 is an idiot. Just an opinion.
I Have great respect for MR, hdntr, and Glades among others arguing. Brilliant guys. Which is why I have no idea why they are trying to reason with feli
Except glades. He just enjoys beating his head against a wall
You've got a point, there, but what the hell, sometimes it's just fun to poke the bear.
Felis is my Mount Everest. It I can make him see reason, I can literally accomplish anything. No, I'm not holding my breath.
I'm arguing the same point you are. Just the opposite side. Playing OL and DL DOES involve tiny adjustments involving eye, finger, hand and leg coordination. You fundamentally don't understand OL/DL play if you don't understand that. What goes on at the line of scrimmage is very much like a boxing match although you don't know who's going to throw the punch at you. Or, perhaps he might just decide to cut your legs. As an OL, you don't know if the guy over you is going to slant, twist, bull rush you or whether a linebacker or safety just might blitz your area of responsibility. The difference between a TD throw and a sack is often who wins the hand combatives portion of a one on one pass rush situation or whether an OL is able to react to and pick up a blitzer (moving his hands and feet quickly). The difference between a first down and tackle for loss is often if the DL or LB can keep his feet (and stomp the blocker with his hands) after an OL lays out to cut his legs. These things all happen in milliseconds.
It also requires extreme mental toughness to keep fighting after your fat ass has already sweated off ten pounds by the 4th quarter. Sleep deprivation destroys your mental toughness.
You make a good point about the scientific study. I suggest you stay up until 12:00 AM tonight then get up at 4:00 AM. Wake your neighbor up and play catch with him and see how it goes. When you're done doing that, go find a random guy on the street and pick a fight with him and see how well that goes. Come back and tell us which situation was most hampered by your sleep deprivation.
Wow, you're in my head, Shakes! I switched from white whale to Mount Everest at the last second before posting. I did that because Captain Ahab was not the right metaphor.
But don't worry about me, Shakes. I've got chunks in my stool bigger than Felis.
Mark D'Antonio was discussing in his news conference that a bad hand placement made a difference between getting a sack on a QB and having that QB score a TD, which change the outcome of last year's Oregon game.
I like the assumption that Stanford lost because they were not prepared or their biological clock was off. Maybe they lost because we were the better team. It's as good a theory as any.
There isn't any doubt that sleep deprivation and "jet lag" can significantly affect the performance of athletes and human beings in general (animals too, probably). The question is only whether certain positions (say linemen) are affected more or les than others (say QB's and receivers). If all SU players were equally affected it was worse for SU, obviously.
By the end of the season we will have a better idea. Fact is Stanford came as a top 25 team, which finished last season 8-5 (5-4 in a very strong P12 conference) and beat a B1G in a bowl game. NU had a much more discrete past season. Obviously it was a surprise that NU won. Later in the season we will have a better idea whether NU is much better than last season, SU is much worse, or perhaps time-zone issues played a big role in their game's outcome.
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