Flagrant on Ryan about worst call I've ever seen
- Thread starter wildcatcoaster
- Start date
Why don’t any of you guys bother to look at the rule? Flagrant 2 Rule 4.15.2.c.2.d. “Contact to the groin that is not clearly incidental.” The call was 100% correct.
Flagrant 2 Rule 4.15.2.c.2.d. “Contact to the groin that is not clearly incidental”
So watching the game, it's super obvious that as Ryan shifted the ball away from the grabbing hands, the Rutgers player leapt forward into the space between Ryan's legs, and basically put his junk at Ryan's elbow so that when Ryan swings back away from the grabbing hands of the other guy reaching around from behind him, contact is made.
Obviously not a flagrant foul. Although it looks like both Rutgers players fouled Ryan before that contact.
Obviously not a flagrant foul. Although it looks like both Rutgers players fouled Ryan before that contact.
I wonder how many sports have carve-outs for whacking a dude in the junk. I respect it and the call was right.
Whether he intentionally got the junk or not, he did intentionally flail for contact. It wouldn’t have been a Flagrant 2 if the flailing had been four inches higher.
You are correct, the guy leapt forward and was inside Ryan's legs. I'm pretty Ryan is allowed to turn into his own space, which the defender violated. Horrible call.
It's a contact sport. Isn't that why they wear protection? The Rutgers player put his junk in the danger zone.
The cylinder is an area for the offensive player to start a basketball play, which is start a shot, a dribble or a pass. It’s defined as the hip area, the rear area, and the space in front of the offensive player when his elbows are bent and he’s holding the ball in front of him
Seems like RU violated this and also hacked Lang before the groin shot. Therefore, the refs failed had they called the cylinder foul or the hacking then Lang wouldn’t have ever hit the groin.
Do any basketball players actually wear cups? In which sports is that still expected?
I’ve always gone au natural on the court, but I had to retire from pickup games due to knee injuries years ago. So I’m not up to date on the latest trends.
If the kid got elbowed in that area as brutally as the ejection would suggest, how was he still standing, still able to run, still able to play? Langborg got him in the gut. It was a basketball play. It cost us a game but maybe his being well rested won us today’s game. Keep on winning and it doesn’t matter.
The call against Martinelli today against IU was pretty egregious too.
True.
On the other hand, they could've easily called an offensive foul (or two) on Martinelli right before Nicholson's little hook.
If I were the UCLA coach, I would suspend the kid for a week. That was bush.
Almost as bad as the Rutgers player who tried to break the leg of Mullins from behind. Oh wait, that wasn’t even a flagrant 1 according to the refs.
Two absolutely brutal calls against Maryland in the final minutes at Wisky last night. Decided the game. I don't know what the solution is here but it's becoming clear that Big Ten officiating is broken
Might as well just let the players call their own fouls like they do in pick-up games.
Totally agree. There’s far too much money in B1G hoops to let three zebras change the outcomes of games multiple times per week. It’s becoming alarmingly obvious that we have some major issues with our officials.
It sure looked like the kid gave an intentional shot out of anger. I'm hoping he just meant to hit the other player in the chest, but accidentally lunged too high. A shot to the throat could be really dangerous and borders on assault.
So, I asked this on another message board once, I think for the NFL, but fans in all leagues think refereeing is historically awful. I can't help but wonder if the problem is not that refing has gotten worse, but rather our ability to see the game on tv close up and with so many different angles just makes it easier to spot missed or bad calls that were always there. I'll be honest, when I'm not pissed off at the refs, I do have to acknowledge that what they do seems impossible to me. I don't know how you make these split second judgement calls when the action is happening so fast and trying to find the balance between calling every bump versus letting the game go a little. I do think they are under a microscope unlike any other time in sports history.
The plethora of cameras and angles and the slo-mo stuff all make it a lot easier to see what happened after the fact. One of the problems is the reffing system hasn't kept up with the tech, tho. How hard would it be to add a fourth ref in a booth with some veto power, and make more plays reviewable?
I know I really appreciate it when they run footage after a play. Sometimes I was right in what I saw, but sometimes a different angle totally changes my take on what happened. The game moves really quickly and too often refs end up responding to a player's theatrics because they weren't in a position to actually see the 0.05 second action in question. Give them a review ref.
I know I really appreciate it when they run footage after a play. Sometimes I was right in what I saw, but sometimes a different angle totally changes my take on what happened. The game moves really quickly and too often refs end up responding to a player's theatrics because they weren't in a position to actually see the 0.05 second action in question. Give them a review ref.
What ever happened to actually some kind of formal review of officials? I know they do that in some leagues (including I thought NCAA football, but I could be mistaken). I'm not saying they have to point out publicly that Joe Official sucks (that's OUR job!), but at the least there should be some evaluation and those that are problem refs are demoted or removed or retrained or whatever. Look, it's obviously a hard job, but they people performing the job appear to be getting worse than ever.
What would be great is if flopping were reviewable. Just the threat of getting called out on a video review might make players think twice.
one of the calls.
I only watched part of the game and got to see Maryland coach Willard get T'd up for saying something to the ref after Wisconsin clearly was holding the ball and the shot clock expired. Buzzer sounds and Badger launches a shot but the refs never called the violation - Maryland got the rebound - Willard said something (calmly) and rabbit-eared ref t's him up.
Last edited:
I think so too. It sure looked like he shuffled his feet as he gathered and then took one more step. Of course, the call of offensive foul is ridiculous and I wish that would have been reviewed as a flop. I think having a challenge like in the NBA would be a good thing.
Last edited:
The NFL certainly evaluates its officials and publicly rebukes them at times. There was a crew that made a number of high profile mistakes during the regular season (Lions vs Cowboys fiasco?), and afterwards were told that they wouldn't be working the playoffs. Perhaps it's harder to find competent refs on the college level.
Truly, Smelly, do you really think there's no review of Big 10 hoops officials in place? Unless things have drastically changed in the past 7-8 yrs, I can attest that every court official, every game, is evaluated on every possession. In the Big 10 as recently as a decade ago, each official even submitted an evaluation of both partners for every game! (Again, unless it's changed) there's both an in-person appraisal and a supervisor's video evaluation after every game. As NU Houston describes, there are consequences -- particularly for conference tournament and post-season assignments -- for negative evaluations. I personally know two officials who were end-of-season "de-listed" (fired) for overall sub-standard performance. Objective appraisal is a continuous process.
Another thing: with rare exceptions there's no such thing as a Big 10-only basketball official. Most are on rosters for at least 2-3 different conferences (different from football, for instance). So an official working Big 10 one night have a Big 12 or Atlantic 10 assignment a night or two later. Harangues seen here over "Big 10 officiating" are misguided; if officials are lousy (as prized poster Lunker, for instance, consistently contends), they're equally lousy everywhere. (Two men's basketball coaches in the Big 12 this season have recently been tossed from games a-la-Collins for demonstrations against their conference's officiating.)
I called basketball (and two other sports) for 30 years and never even approached a D-1 level of ball. Never tried. But I was a member of NASO (National Association of Sports Officials) and attended a number of its annual conventions. It was interesting and satisfying to be around top officials of all sports, basketball included. Virtually without exception they were Grade A people, committed to striving for excellence in their sport and other aspects of life.
Isolated calls or no-calls can and will always be questioned, particularly given the video scrutiny to which so many games are subject now. But I implore anyone to think very carefully before questioning an official's integrity or accusing one of pre-existing bias.
I apologize if the preceding screed has been tedious to read, but I was obviously moved to respond to remarks made on this board and of course in many other places.
Another thing: with rare exceptions there's no such thing as a Big 10-only basketball official. Most are on rosters for at least 2-3 different conferences (different from football, for instance). So an official working Big 10 one night have a Big 12 or Atlantic 10 assignment a night or two later. Harangues seen here over "Big 10 officiating" are misguided; if officials are lousy (as prized poster Lunker, for instance, consistently contends), they're equally lousy everywhere. (Two men's basketball coaches in the Big 12 this season have recently been tossed from games a-la-Collins for demonstrations against their conference's officiating.)
I called basketball (and two other sports) for 30 years and never even approached a D-1 level of ball. Never tried. But I was a member of NASO (National Association of Sports Officials) and attended a number of its annual conventions. It was interesting and satisfying to be around top officials of all sports, basketball included. Virtually without exception they were Grade A people, committed to striving for excellence in their sport and other aspects of life.
Isolated calls or no-calls can and will always be questioned, particularly given the video scrutiny to which so many games are subject now. But I implore anyone to think very carefully before questioning an official's integrity or accusing one of pre-existing bias.
I apologize if the preceding screed has been tedious to read, but I was obviously moved to respond to remarks made on this board and of course in many other places.
Can you the explain the Flagrant 2 on Ryan. Replays which the officials spent numerous minutes reviewing showed that Ryan’s “hitting” the Rutgers player was in the midsection not the groin and certainly looked unintentional.
Thanks for your perspective.
I don’t believe any of that mumbo jumbo that the refs are biased or there are conspiracies to rig games or anything, and other than the NBA ref who bet on games, I don’t question their integrity either (other than in the tongue-in cheek chants like “we can pay you more!” that I shouted when I was a dumb kid).
I also recognize that it’s a really hard job. I think that refs are human and are influenced by their environment, which includes fans, coaches, and players giving them constant feedback (usually negative and often unwarranted). You’d have to be a robot to be able to screen that all out, especially in basketball where everyone is in a tighter space.
I think what most fans want from the refs is not to call everything in their favor; it’s consistency and fairness. And the correct interpretation of the rules at all times.
If elbowing someone in their midsection calls for an ejection whereas kicking a guy purposefully while they’re down does not, that’s another discussion about bad rules. I just think that if it’s a foul over here that it should also be a foul over there, and that’s where I feel refereeing in the NCAAs has gotten worse.
