Game thoughts / Ordered list of problems

[ricko654321]

Disclaimer- I haven't read too much of the other threads as I scanned a few and it seemed sort of repetitive. So sorry if I'm repeating what others have said.

Issues we had @Duke
1) pass rush, mostly DEs. Lancaster was the only one I saw get to the QB on multiple occasions. Even when we sent 5 we couldn't get through. Our DEs need to find a pass rush, he was running a 7 on 7 drill.
- tangent but related... how the heck did we not put a spy on him by the second quarter? On the rare occasions that he couldn't find anyone open, he was able to run for 10 yards with ease. Not only were our DEs not getting to the QB, they were losing contain while failing to get there.
2) OL, it looks like it's been discussed a bunch elsewhere so no more needed to say
3) secondary - wasn't really an issue entering the season but injuries have crushed our depth and McGee going out on the BS call didn't help
4) WRs - when they blitz constantly and press on the outside someone has got to get free. Hard to tell from the TV view but it didn't really look like much of anyone was open. Even when he got time Clayton couldn't find people, and I don't think it was just him holding it too long.
5) LBs did not have a great game today. Bad angles, terrible tackling, we weren't ready for their speed and missed in the open field. I think I saw all of them but Hall make multiple clear mistakes.
6) the QB position, Clayton had a bad day but I don't think he was the main issue here, the problem was we got outplayed everywhere else
7) RB... did JJ get hurt? Not much space to run at all on Saturday though

So I think our coordinators called a pretty blah game, not trying to defend them... in particular we didn't adjust to their QB scrambling or shift from our standard zone on D which he was carving up with all the time he had, and on O we didn't really find a way to combat their blitzing. But it's hard to call a good game when you are getting outplayed at literally every position on the field.

Honestly I think Duke is pretty good based on what I saw. They looked fast and talented, and played disciplined and smart. Or at least I hope they are, or else we are in trouble. Guess we got bounce back next week and then spend two weeks coming up with a better game plan and preparation for Wisconsin.

 

[ricko654321]

Disclaimer- I haven't read too much of the other threads as I scanned a few and it seemed sort of repetitive. So sorry if I'm repeating what others have said.

Issues we had @Duke
1) pass rush, mostly DEs. Lancaster was the only one I saw get to the QB on multiple occasions. Even when we sent 5 we couldn't get through. Our DEs need to find a pass rush, he was running a 7 on 7 drill.
- tangent but related... how the heck did we not put a spy on him by the second quarter? On the rare occasions that he couldn't find anyone open, he was able to run for 10 yards with ease. Not only were our DEs not getting to the QB, they were losing contain while failing to get there.
2) OL, it looks like it's been discussed a bunch elsewhere so no more needed to say
3) secondary - wasn't really an issue entering the season but injuries have crushed our depth and McGee going out on the BS call didn't help
4) WRs - when they blitz constantly and press on the outside someone has got to get free. Hard to tell from the TV view but it didn't really look like much of anyone was open. Even when he got time Clayton couldn't find people, and I don't think it was just him holding it too long.
5) LBs did not have a great game today. Bad angles, terrible tackling, we weren't ready for their speed and missed in the open field. I think I saw all of them but Hall make multiple clear mistakes.
6) the QB position, Clayton had a bad day but I don't think he was the main issue here, the problem was we got outplayed everywhere else
7) RB... did JJ get hurt? Not much space to run at all on Saturday though

So I think our coordinators called a pretty blah game, not trying to defend them... in particular we didn't adjust to their QB scrambling or shift from our standard zone on D which he was carving up with all the time he had, and on O we didn't really find a way to combat their blitzing. But it's hard to call a good game when you are getting outplayed at literally every position on the field.

Honestly I think Duke is pretty good based on what I saw. They looked fast and talented, and played disciplined and smart. Or at least I hope they are, or else we are in trouble. Guess we got bounce back next week and then spend two weeks coming up with a better game plan and preparation for Wisconsin.

To clarify- I think all of 1 thru 5 are serious issues. 6 and 7 were the only ones that I'm not so worried about. Seems to me people are over-focusing on the OL when we got used and abused at so many other positions too.

 

[curdog]

I can't disagree with your analysis. I will say that the focus is on the oline because it dictates so much of what you can do on offense. If you can't run the ball, then you have to rely on your QB making plays (which Thorson did not). If you can't run and the QB has no time to throw, you are going to lose.

NU has already wasted the talent of one NFL starting QB, I don't want to see them waste another (Thorson has talent, not sure about NFL talent).

Also, oline returned 4 starters. They have not gotten better.

 

[ricko654321]

I can't disagree with your analysis. I will say that the focus is on the oline because it dictates so much of what you can do on offense. If you can't run the ball, then you have to rely on your QB making plays (which Thorson did not). If you can't run and the QB has no time to throw, you are going to lose.

NU has already wasted the talent of one NFL starting QB, I don't want to see them waste another (Thorson has talent, not sure about NFL talent).

Also, oline returned 4 starters. They have not gotten better.

Yeah, don't disagree, though we had the same problem last week with the OL... it was covered up because we switched to a pass first offense and our WRs were able to get open consistently (especially Skowronek). This week our WRs got beat repeatedly by the Duke DBs, or were forced to continually make tightly contested catches and or Clayton was forcing into tight windows.

 

[beetlemania74]

Yeah, don't disagree, though we had the same problem last week with the OL... it was covered up because we switched to a pass first offense and our WRs were able to get open consistently (especially Skowronek). This week our WRs got beat repeatedly by the Duke DBs, or were forced to continually make tightly contested catches and or Clayton was forcing into tight windows.

My concern is that we're in a repeat of the 2014 and 2015 seasons, where the WRs couldn't get separation and the OL couldn't provide much pass protection for the QB. Despite the 10 wins in 2015, the production by the offense was still at or near the bottom of the B1G. Last year, Austin Carr clearly found success and was CT's go-to WR, but with him gone, I'm worried that we revert back to where we were in previous seasons. The Duke game was very discouraging in this regard.

 

[Hungry Jack]

In order of seriousness / difficulty to fix:
1) Offensive line run blocking
2) DE play - run anchoring and pass pressure; kids need to grow up fast.
3) LBs - lots of bad reads it seems; inexperience is showing a bit though Nagel and Hall have plenty of time in the saddle.
4) CT - better play calling can help with some of his issues; timing with new receivers should improve as season goes on (let's hope)
5) CBs - injuries are the biggest issue; hope RoCamp, Bullock and Mayo heal up soon

 

[hdhntr1]

Disclaimer- I haven't read too much of the other threads as I scanned a few and it seemed sort of repetitive. So sorry if I'm repeating what others have said.

Issues we had @Duke
1) pass rush, mostly DEs. Lancaster was the only one I saw get to the QB on multiple occasions. Even when we sent 5 we couldn't get through. Our DEs need to find a pass rush, he was running a 7 on 7 drill.
- tangent but related... how the heck did we not put a spy on him by the second quarter? On the rare occasions that he couldn't find anyone open, he was able to run for 10 yards with ease. Not only were our DEs not getting to the QB, they were losing contain while failing to get there.
2) OL, it looks like it's been discussed a bunch elsewhere so no more needed to say
3) secondary - wasn't really an issue entering the season but injuries have crushed our depth and McGee going out on the BS call didn't help
4) WRs - when they blitz constantly and press on the outside someone has got to get free. Hard to tell from the TV view but it didn't really look like much of anyone was open. Even when he got time Clayton couldn't find people, and I don't think it was just him holding it too long.
5) LBs did not have a great game today. Bad angles, terrible tackling, we weren't ready for their speed and missed in the open field. I think I saw all of them but Hall make multiple clear mistakes.
6) the QB position, Clayton had a bad day but I don't think he was the main issue here, the problem was we got outplayed everywhere else
7) RB... did JJ get hurt? Not much space to run at all on Saturday though

So I think our coordinators called a pretty blah game, not trying to defend them... in particular we didn't adjust to their QB scrambling or shift from our standard zone on D which he was carving up with all the time he had, and on O we didn't really find a way to combat their blitzing. But it's hard to call a good game when you are getting outplayed at literally every position on the field.

Honestly I think Duke is pretty good based on what I saw. They looked fast and talented, and played disciplined and smart. Or at least I hope they are, or else we are in trouble. Guess we got bounce back next week and then spend two weeks coming up with a better game plan and preparation for Wisconsin.

Sounds about like what I saw

 

[FanatiCat]

Yes, Duke looks like a pretty good team but we won't get any style points for that. It's unlikely they will have a stellar record since they'll still probably get killed by FSU, Miami etc.

 

[Southport Cat]

Aside from the much-discussed issues in the trenches, the single item that infuriated me most was how many times either the LB or defensive end responsible for the QB in the read option did not stay home. It is football defense 101. We got gouged for many big gains on this most fundamental of football plays. All the speed and talent in the world cannot overcome making the same basic football mistakes over and over and over.

 

[Smokejumper]

Aside from the much-discussed issues in the trenches, the single item that infuriated me most was how many times either the LB or defensive end responsible for the QB in the read option did not stay home. It is football defense 101. We got gouged for many big gains on this most fundamental of football plays. All the speed and talent in the world cannot overcome making the same basic football mistakes over and over and over.

I recall a few times where either Fox or Fisher had spy responsibility and was ineffective because an OL was able to beark the LOS uncontested and take out the LB, which allowed the Duke QB to pickup 10 yards (or a TD in some cases...)

Just seems like with the new faces in the LB and DB ranks, we are just out of sync. Is it poor communication, lack of experience, delayed reaction, too aggressive play, too reactive play? ... Probably all of the above.

Its probably just natural for teams to build the chemistry (and our defense had tremendous chemistry 1 and 2 years ago). And i believe the targeting penalty on McGee definitely took the wind and confidence out of their play, changing momentum and also depleting an already thin back 7.

 

[beetlemania74]

Aside from the much-discussed issues in the trenches, the single item that infuriated me most was how many times either the LB or defensive end responsible for the QB in the read option did not stay home. It is football defense 101. We got gouged for many big gains on this most fundamental of football plays. All the speed and talent in the world cannot overcome making the same basic football mistakes over and over and over.

I noticed that a couple of times. Once with Walsh, and once with one of the DEs. They didn't hold the corner and gave up big plays as a result. Frustrating.

 

[ricko654321]

I noticed that a couple of times. Once with Walsh, and once with one of the DEs. They didn't hold the corner and gave up big plays as a result. Frustrating.

Yeah. I didn't want to single players out, but I will say I didn't think Walsh had a great game. He was one of many on the defense you could say that for though. Nearly everyone whose number wasn't 24,16, or 1. And even those guys made some mistakes too.

 

[ricko654321]

Yes, Duke looks like a pretty good team but we won't get any style points for that. It's unlikely they will have a stellar record since they'll still probably get killed by FSU, Miami etc.

This may be a hot take, but I actually think they can compete for the ACC Coastal title this year based on what I saw. Remember that FSU Clemson and Louisville are all in the other division. Miami may be better this year, but far from dominant. Miami, Duke, VT are probably the leading contenders there. Pitt and UNC not great this year, and the others are GT and UVa.

 

[ricko654321]

My concern is that we're in a repeat of the 2014 and 2015 seasons, where the WRs couldn't get separation and the OL couldn't provide much pass protection for the QB. Despite the 10 wins in 2015, the production by the offense was still at or near the bottom of the B1G. Last year, Austin Carr clearly found success and was CT's go-to WR, but with him gone, I'm worried that we revert back to where we were in previous seasons. The Duke game was very discouraging in this regard.

this, exactly was what i was thinking, and what worried me beyond just the issues of the OL. it looked exactly like those years to me on offense, with Carr gone we may not have a guy who can get free consistently and do anything to stop D's from stacking the box against JJ and constantly running press man blitzes at CT.

 

[hdhntr1]

Aside from the much-discussed issues in the trenches, the single item that infuriated me most was how many times either the LB or defensive end responsible for the QB in the read option did not stay home. It is football defense 101. We got gouged for many big gains on this most fundamental of football plays. All the speed and talent in the world cannot overcome making the same basic football mistakes over and over and over.

This is where Walker leaving hurt. I saw a lot of bad angles taken

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

this, exactly was what i was thinking, and what worried me beyond just the issues of the OL. it looked exactly like those years to me on offense, with Carr gone we may not have a guy who can get free consistently and do anything to stop D's from stacking the box against JJ and constantly running press man blitzes at CT.

Overall our WR's are WAY better than they were in aggregate in 2015.

 

[DaCat]

Overall our WR's are WAY better than they were in aggregate in 2015.

I agree. Without jinxing him, Riley Lees has a TD pass in both games this season, and is looking like a star-in-the-making.

 

[beetlemania74]

this, exactly was what i was thinking, and what worried me beyond just the issues of the OL. it looked exactly like those years to me on offense, with Carr gone we may not have a guy who can get free consistently and do anything to stop D's from stacking the box against JJ and constantly running press man blitzes at CT.

Same problem we saw with Siemian in 2014. Our OL has struggled in pass protection since at least 2010. Pre-injury Persa kept defenses honest by being able to scramble out of pressure, but the following year when he was hobbled, they really came after him. Similarly, Colter as QB forced defenses to back off, but when he was gone in 2014, Siemian felt the heat. Unless we have a true dual-threat QB, we need much better pass protection from the OL.

 

[willycat]

I agree. Without jinxing him, Riley Lees has a TD pass in both games this season, and is looking like a star-in-the-making.

Then why aren't they using him more?

 

[hdhntr1]

Overall our WR's are WAY better than they were in aggregate in 2015.

Such a low bar

 

[mickbula]

What do I think of the Duke game results? I think that if his performance continues this season as it played out against Duke, CThor should start his application to Kellogg for his MBA instead of dreaming of the nfl just yet. I think he will be back for his last eligibility next year. Maybe he can secure his nfl ticket next season if his play improves. I hope he does- he is a wonderful person from what I have heard and a very gifted player. The question is what coaches at NU will be coaching him. Right now, at least against Duke, he had the wrong coaches tutoring him. I don't think a player with the potential/gifts to be a first round nfl pick should be coached for what happened against Duke. Maybe he would be better suited to be a deal maker.

 

[ricko654321]

Such a low bar

i would say somewhat better, but not WAY better. and i wouldn't grade them particularly highly on an absolute scale. i'd say decent, but not good or great. still lots of time for more talent to emerge though...

 

[pawildcat]

Same problem we saw with Siemian in 2014. Our OL has struggled in pass protection since at least 2010. Pre-injury Persa kept defenses honest by being able to scramble out of pressure, but the following year when he was hobbled, they really came after him. Similarly, Colter as QB forced defenses to back off, but when he was gone in 2014, Siemian felt the heat. Unless we have a true dual-threat QB, we need much better pass protection from the OL.

Siemian also played hurt for much of the year, which decreased his mobility. I remember people complaining about the coaches leaving him in since he wasn't 100 percent. Judging by his experience in Denver, I think it's becoming obvious why they continued to start him.