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Harbaugh goes on record RE: Erik Swenson

Well as much as I hate Harbaugh, I'm guessing there's truth to both sides of the story.
 
(Presented here without comment... interested in seeing the reaction from others before sharing mine)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ting-greenstein-spt-0127-20170125-column.html

I suspect there are elements of truth on all sides and if this were a lone incident I wouldn't know who is most fairly representing the whole situation. However, this is not an isolated incident but rather a pattern that goes back at least as far as his tenure at Stanford. I suspect Harbaugh milked it to keep the young man committed until he felt confident he had better options. If I recall correctly, (no certainty of that) Swenson's scholarship offer being pulled coincided with Harbaugh receiving at least one additional offensive lineman commitment.
 
(Presented here without comment... interested in seeing the reaction from others before sharing mine)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ting-greenstein-spt-0127-20170125-column.html

I think it was a great story. Balanced, well reported and comprehensive. I also give credit to Harbaugh for going on record. I agree with GCG that Harbaugh has been playing games with recruits for years, but it would have been a whole lot easier for him to just say no comment. He even took some blame for miscommunication. We all know he deserves more blame than that, but I think talking about it is more than most coaches would've done in this situation.

But make no mistake: Harbaugh is still a tool.
 
Why - seemed like a pretty fair article to me

Of course that is the problem with media today, you don't have any idea what is true anymore. Everyone is slanting the truth and presenting alternative truths. We might as well live win China or North Korea or Russia and have state sponsored news.
 
Of course that is the problem with media today, you don't have any idea what is true anymore. Everyone is slanting the truth and presenting alternative truths. We might as well live win China or North Korea or Russia and have state sponsored news.

Nope, not even close to China, North Korea or Russia. I have friends and relatives who've lived in China and Russia, and I think they would tell you it ain't at all like the U.S.
 
did you guys hear that Kim Jong Un scored 320 points in a single game against the North Korean national team?
 
Of course that is the problem with media today, you don't have any idea what is true anymore. Everyone is slanting the truth and presenting alternative truths. We might as well live win China or North Korea or Russia and have state sponsored news.
I'm biased, but the best newspaper in the world is still the New York Times. Read it, and you'll get a nice fill of actual facts, nuanced and all.
 
I'm biased, but the best newspaper in the world is still the New York Times. Read it, and you'll get a nice fill of actual facts, nuanced and all.
Can't read it in China. It's blocked, as is the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, The Economist, Google, and Facebook. The US is nowhere near China and Russia in terms of censorship, propaganda, and misinformation.
 
I'm biased, but the best newspaper in the world is still the New York Times. Read it, and you'll get a nice fill of actual facts, nuanced and all.

Have to disagree. I read the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal daily. The "truth" is somewhere in between. Both august publications have an editorial axe to grind that filters into their reporting. Reading both ends of the spectrum (well, not literal ends of the spectrum) is important to be to make up my own mind about issues.
 
Have to disagree. I read the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal daily. The "truth" is somewhere in between. Both august publications have an editorial axe to grind that filters into their reporting. Reading both ends of the spectrum (well, not literal ends of the spectrum) is important to be to make up my own mind about issues.

The Times is not nearly as biased as the Chicago Tribune I grew up with, and at that time the Tribune was a huge newspaper, actually circulating more than a million on Sundays and reaching into several states. I almost miss the old rabidly conservative Trib compared to the bland right-wing blob it has become today.
 
Have to disagree. I read the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal daily. The "truth" is somewhere in between. Both august publications have an editorial axe to grind that filters into their reporting. Reading both ends of the spectrum (well, not literal ends of the spectrum) is important to be to make up my own mind about issues.

Those are the two I prefer and trust the most.
 
Google "The Agency" by "New York Times" and read all about it.
 
Can't read it in China. It's blocked, as is the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, The Economist, Google, and Facebook. The US is nowhere near China and Russia in terms of censorship, propaganda, and misinformation.

Censorship and propaganda yes. Misinformation, I doubt it.

Having lived in China, I can tell you that the danger of the press in America is that everyone thinks because it is free, that it is true if it's printed. Which I have discovered is far, far from the truth (for example their views and reporting of what's happening in China).

We put a great deal of trust in journalists to report objectively, and I think that trust is greatly misplaced. There are no unbiased media - from FoxNews to CNN to especially the NYT. Just look at the coverage of this past election where the mainstream media was so (and remains so) far away from the pulse of half of the nation.

Journalists at best are trying to report what they believe to be the truth, but it is always through a lens that by nature is going to be biased. That therein is the greatest danger.

The truth is that pretty much all journalists are at best mis or ill-informed (if they were true subject matter experts, they wouldn't be journalists) or at their worst have motivations way beyond reporting objectively. And the worst thing is that they have this arrogance that because they are journalists, and have some code that they are supposed to be objective, that creates deep delusions that they have some privileged access to the truth beyond everyone else, when in fact they are as we all are merely a product of who they happen to talk to or more accurate who they decide to talk to. How often are articles written from multiple perspectives and objectively so to provide balance (I'd say very rarely)? Even more disturbingly, I have friends who worked for Reuters, AP, WSJ, and yes, even the NY Times - all of them admitted to writing pieces that they didn't even believe simply because of guidance/instructions given to them by their even more biased and ill-informed editors. You think NYT is any less partisan than Huffington or any less biased than Breitbart? They are all driven by agendas. Some are transparent about it. Others operate under the pretense (or even conviction) that they are objective, which is even more dangerous in my opinion. If this election result didn't demonstrate unequivocally how off the mainstream media is with reality, I don't know what will.

At least in China, everyone knows to be super suspicious of anything written by the press. In that regards, there is far more misinformation spread via the US press than in China simply from an efficacy and believability stand point.

Some Medilldo is gonna get all upset now, talking about how this isn't how it's supposed to be, well maybe not. But, that is the reality.
 
I am going to hit back at you at EC. What you are talking about is quite alright as far as it goes, but taken even to a slight bit more of an extreme it can be very, very dangerous for our society (and the world).

First of all, I do not think the newspapers and tv networks are THAT biased. Oh they are a bit. But I think that they have other problems that are worse.

1. The worst one - oversimiplifying everything so that the lowest common denominator reader/viewer can get it. I understand that reason and in some ways I suppose it is commendable not to be too "in the weeds" but some issues about financial, foreign, health and other policies really do need to be talked about at a bit higher than Homer Simpson levels if you want to really talk about them.

2. The worst one - (I know that was the one above, this is tied for first) - Pack Mentality. If it somehow becomes conventional wisdom that "Clinton is a bore" or "Trump had a terrible inaugural speech" (etc etec etc) it becomes almost impossible to write or report against that.

3. Final - Internet Click/Ratings bias. Do the easy and sexy instead of the serious. (Note - this has existed forever and on a human level and from a business standpoint it is understandable. If you owned a media outlet in China would you want to report what is most popular and got the best ratings (and ad revenue) or what is boring and "right").

That said you are going down a dangerous hole with this talk about how no media can be trusted, etc.

Perhaps some of what you say has merit about bias, but my point is different. Did you google "The Agency" from the NYTimes and read it? One of the most terrifying points is kind of glossed over, but it is that by doing all of the things Putin is doing, he has a different trick in mind. If he can convince enough people that nothing can be trusted, that any news can be purchased or is at best biased at the start, that there is no such thing as objective truth, than Putin will have done more damage to the USA than we did to Japan when we bombed them.

If no newspaper can be read, no radio news report believed, no tv news show watched, no documentary worth a viewing, than we are so effed you cannot believe it. Then everyone will just pick their own truth and we will have no common ground from which to start a conversation.

Let me put it this way. Lets say I have a neighbor on Long Island where I am right now for a business deal. Let's say we both read the NY Times. Let's say the NYTimes says that Trump wants to reduce taxes by 20 percent and economists say only half of that will be made up by the increased economic benefits. I can wander over to my neighbors house with a six pack and if he likes talking politics we can bs about it. I may say we should take care of the deficit first. He may say we should simply cut spending. His wife might pass by and chime in on how they should cut more spending but in no case should they cut education spending. WHATEVER that is a made up example

BUT, if I read one website that says Trumps cuts will explode the deficit and my neighbor reads one that says that the cuts are too small, they need to be twice as big so as to not have a deficit, in other words if we are living in two completely different informational orbits it is tough to have a conversation.

We have a lot of that today. I don't know how a listener of Rush Limbaugh and viewer of Fox News can talk politics with someone who watches Rachel Maddow and reads DailyKos and MoveOn.

And then you have this.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/24/news/economy/trump-administration-unemployment-bls/index.html

And this leads to what I am talking about.

We are not discussing issues from one basis point. The situation is Y, what are we going to do about it. We are disussing it as some of us are saying the situation is X what are we going to do about it (though the actual situation is Y), and others are saying the situation is Z what are we going to do about it (though the actual situation is Y).

Again, not to repeat myself but please, please read "The Agency" from the NYTimes which talks about how the Putin campaign is trying to screw up the idea of objective information itself.

The Agency. NY Times. Google. (I cannot link it from the phone I am on so I can only ask you to google it).
 
First of all - great story. He should talk to ESPN about making a 30 for 30 based around this story. (Start by having Swenson take you down to his basement and open the boxes of Michigan swag...you kind of need Harbaugh to do a sit down for it as well.) Another example of college football recruiting being super intense for high school kids. Hard to pretend that its not big business when this kind of behavior occurs.

For me it boils down to whether the kid knew that Michigan was seriously considering NOT moving forward with him. It feels like the hint of asking him to come to a camp to show his stuff, or needing senior tape to be evaluated, is strong evidence that this wasn't just an over-recruiting situation but it also feels a little subtle.

The more upstanding behavior here is to be straightforward with Erik. I'm new. I feel a lot of pressure to be successful from minute one and while the former coach loved you - and I respect that - I'm evaluating every single player in this recruiting class for fit. Other new coaches do that.

Also, being new is the ultimate shield for Harbaugh. He does it again for a player that commits to him like that and it won't be the same story.
 
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I have connections to the family and I can tell you by all accounts they are very honest and straightforward people. I have no doubt their version of events is accurate. Harbaugh is trying to divert blame here by making it look like a miscommunication issue. I am not buying it. He knew what he was doing. He strung the kid along and bailed on him at the last minute.
 
I have connections to the family and I can tell you by all accounts they are very honest and straightforward people. I have no doubt their version of events is accurate. Harbaugh is trying to divert blame here by making it look like a miscommunication issue. I am not buying it. He knew what he was doing. He strung the kid along and bailed on him at the last minute.

I'm with you there. Harbaugh has a long track record of jacking commits around. This wasn't an isolated incident by any means. Just ask Kain Colter or Will Hampton. It's just that, now that he's at Michigan, he can't hide behind admissions anymore.
 
I'm with you there. Harbaugh has a long track record of jacking commits around. This wasn't an isolated incident by any means. Just ask Kain Colter or Will Hampton. It's just that, now that he's at Michigan, he can't hide behind admissions anymore.

Or Jordan Perkins... or any number of guys who ended up at schools other than NU.
 
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I have connections to the family and I can tell you by all accounts they are very honest and straightforward people. I have no doubt their version of events is accurate. Harbaugh is trying to divert blame here by making it look like a miscommunication issue. I am not buying it. He knew what he was doing. He strung the kid along and bailed on him at the last minute.
I wish Teddy had asked - or got a comment - from either Swenson or the coach about whether/why he didn't attend camps.
 
I am going to hit back at you at EC. What you are talking about is quite alright as far as it goes, but taken even to a slight bit more of an extreme it can be very, very dangerous for our society (and the world).

First of all, I do not think the newspapers and tv networks are THAT biased. Oh they are a bit. But I think that they have other problems that are worse.

1. The worst one - oversimiplifying everything so that the lowest common denominator reader/viewer can get it. I understand that reason and in some ways I suppose it is commendable not to be too "in the weeds" but some issues about financial, foreign, health and other policies really do need to be talked about at a bit higher than Homer Simpson levels if you want to really talk about them.

2. The worst one - (I know that was the one above, this is tied for first) - Pack Mentality. If it somehow becomes conventional wisdom that "Clinton is a bore" or "Trump had a terrible inaugural speech" (etc etec etc) it becomes almost impossible to write or report against that.

3. Final - Internet Click/Ratings bias. Do the easy and sexy instead of the serious. (Note - this has existed forever and on a human level and from a business standpoint it is understandable. If you owned a media outlet in China would you want to report what is most popular and got the best ratings (and ad revenue) or what is boring and "right").

That said you are going down a dangerous hole with this talk about how no media can be trusted, etc.

Perhaps some of what you say has merit about bias, but my point is different. Did you google "The Agency" from the NYTimes and read it? One of the most terrifying points is kind of glossed over, but it is that by doing all of the things Putin is doing, he has a different trick in mind. If he can convince enough people that nothing can be trusted, that any news can be purchased or is at best biased at the start, that there is no such thing as objective truth, than Putin will have done more damage to the USA than we did to Japan when we bombed them.

If no newspaper can be read, no radio news report believed, no tv news show watched, no documentary worth a viewing, than we are so effed you cannot believe it. Then everyone will just pick their own truth and we will have no common ground from which to start a conversation.

Let me put it this way. Lets say I have a neighbor on Long Island where I am right now for a business deal. Let's say we both read the NY Times. Let's say the NYTimes says that Trump wants to reduce taxes by 20 percent and economists say only half of that will be made up by the increased economic benefits. I can wander over to my neighbors house with a six pack and if he likes talking politics we can bs about it. I may say we should take care of the deficit first. He may say we should simply cut spending. His wife might pass by and chime in on how they should cut more spending but in no case should they cut education spending. WHATEVER that is a made up example

BUT, if I read one website that says Trumps cuts will explode the deficit and my neighbor reads one that says that the cuts are too small, they need to be twice as big so as to not have a deficit, in other words if we are living in two completely different informational orbits it is tough to have a conversation.

We have a lot of that today. I don't know how a listener of Rush Limbaugh and viewer of Fox News can talk politics with someone who watches Rachel Maddow and reads DailyKos and MoveOn.

And then you have this.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/24/news/economy/trump-administration-unemployment-bls/index.html

And this leads to what I am talking about.

We are not discussing issues from one basis point. The situation is Y, what are we going to do about it. We are disussing it as some of us are saying the situation is X what are we going to do about it (though the actual situation is Y), and others are saying the situation is Z what are we going to do about it (though the actual situation is Y).

Again, not to repeat myself but please, please read "The Agency" from the NYTimes which talks about how the Putin campaign is trying to screw up the idea of objective information itself.

The Agency. NY Times. Google. (I cannot link it from the phone I am on so I can only ask you to google it).

I didn't say everything that the press says is a lie and that you can't trust anything. What I'm saying is actually that you need to be supercareful to assume anyone of these papers is objective and non-biased. They are not.

But, your strawman is appreciated. It doesn't have anything to do with what I said, but it's appreciated.
 
I didn't say everything that the press says is a lie and that you can't trust anything. What I'm saying is actually that you need to be supercareful to assume anyone of these papers is objective and non-biased. They are not.

But, your strawman is appreciated. It doesn't have anything to do with what I said, but it's appreciated.


I didn't quite exactly say what you said I said (if that make sense), just pointing out the new world order in media today is quite scary with "fake news" and whatnot.

Just yesterday - this. (Imagine if someone connected with Barrack had said this).

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/26/media/bannon-media-nytimes/index.html

I'm ending this now because by nature I like to get along with everybody and politics is a divisive thing that does not lead to friendships. so I'm done. I just wanted to point out that this is a very nasty and serious thing going on right now.

All the best to you, as always.
 
I'm with you there. Harbaugh has a long track record of jacking commits around. This wasn't an isolated incident by any means. Just ask Kain Colter or Will Hampton. It's just that, now that he's at Michigan, he can't hide behind admissions anymore.
Isn't this different though - harbaugh isn't the coach who offered this kid a scholarship or had been involved in recruiting him - it seems reasonable to me that he would want to see what he had with this player and as Swenson didn't come to camps and underperformed on tape the player he saw wasn't up to his standards. I still think the timing is rotten but hopefully the new early signing day will help eliminate some of these shenanigans
 
Isn't this different though - harbaugh isn't the coach who offered this kid a scholarship or had been involved in recruiting him - it seems reasonable to me that he would want to see what he had with this player and as Swenson didn't come to camps and underperformed on tape the player he saw wasn't up to his standards. I still think the timing is rotten but hopefully the new early signing day will help eliminate some of these shenanigans
I agree. Teddy' missed a big part of the story I'm not asking Swenson or his coach why he declined to participate in camps after being specifically asked to. It's highly possible that it was presented as an option, but was enforced as a mandate when Harbaugh chose to cut bait. But it's a huge part of the story.
 
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I have connections to the family and I can tell you by all accounts they are very honest and straightforward people. I have no doubt their version of events is accurate. Harbaugh is trying to divert blame here by making it look like a miscommunication issue. I am not buying it. He knew what he was doing. He strung the kid along and bailed on him at the last minute.

The kid basically took his senior year off and JH wanted him to prove he was worthy of the schollie. He chose to stay home. Maybe it woke him up and he'll play for OU, my guess is he will never see the field.
 
The kid basically took his senior year off and JH wanted him to prove he was worthy of the schollie. He chose to stay home. Maybe it woke him up and he'll play for OU, my guess is he will never see the field.

No matter what the situation was, this could have been avoided had Harbaugh been much more straight forward with the kid. Harbaugh should have told the kid their concerns, the importance of coming to camp to secure his scholarship, and the likely consequences if he didn't.
 
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Censorship and propaganda yes. Misinformation, I doubt it.

Having lived in China, I can tell you that the danger of the press in America is that everyone thinks because it is free, that it is true if it's printed. Which I have discovered is far, far from the truth (for example their views and reporting of what's happening in China).

We put a great deal of trust in journalists to report objectively, and I think that trust is greatly misplaced. There are no unbiased media - from FoxNews to CNN to especially the NYT. Just look at the coverage of this past election where the mainstream media was so (and remains so) far away from the pulse of half of the nation.

Journalists at best are trying to report what they believe to be the truth, but it is always through a lens that by nature is going to be biased. That therein is the greatest danger.

The truth is that pretty much all journalists are at best mis or ill-informed (if they were true subject matter experts, they wouldn't be journalists) or at their worst have motivations way beyond reporting objectively. And the worst thing is that they have this arrogance that because they are journalists, and have some code that they are supposed to be objective, that creates deep delusions that they have some privileged access to the truth beyond everyone else, when in fact they are as we all are merely a product of who they happen to talk to or more accurate who they decide to talk to. How often are articles written from multiple perspectives and objectively so to provide balance (I'd say very rarely)? Even more disturbingly, I have friends who worked for Reuters, AP, WSJ, and yes, even the NY Times - all of them admitted to writing pieces that they didn't even believe simply because of guidance/instructions given to them by their even more biased and ill-informed editors. You think NYT is any less partisan than Huffington or any less biased than Breitbart? They are all driven by agendas. Some are transparent about it. Others operate under the pretense (or even conviction) that they are objective, which is even more dangerous in my opinion. If this election result didn't demonstrate unequivocally how off the mainstream media is with reality, I don't know what will.

At least in China, everyone knows to be super suspicious of anything written by the press. In that regards, there is far more misinformation spread via the US press than in China simply from an efficacy and believability stand point.

Some Medilldo is gonna get all upset now, talking about how this isn't how it's supposed to be, well maybe not. But, that is the reality.

Well, I'm a "Medilldo" as you rather quaintly put it, and I'm not really that upset. Do you really think anyone who has spent time in journalism hasn't heard this stuff before? As far as the "subject matter expert" bit goes, it depends upon what you're covering. Unless it's high-grade science or something (and usually you tend to specialize in that type of reporting if that's the area you're covering), most of what the average reporter covers (school boards, city councils, government offices etc.) is not rocket science and is something any intelligent person with a slight quotient of curiosity can figure out. Far from being ill-informed, most reporters I've worked with tend to be better informed about their communities than the average guy because they actually ATTEND those boring night meetings and talk to the dingbat politicians and are aware of what is going on. Do I think the NYT is less biased than Breitbart? Hell, yes. Huffington, less so. But if you really want to believe that there is more misinformation spread by reputable U.S. news sources than Chinese, be my guest. I think that's ridiculous, but it's not going to ruin my day.
 
I am going to hit back at you at EC. What you are talking about is quite alright as far as it goes, but taken even to a slight bit more of an extreme it can be very, very dangerous for our society (and the world).

First of all, I do not think the newspapers and tv networks are THAT biased. Oh they are a bit. But I think that they have other problems that are worse.

1. The worst one - oversimiplifying everything so that the lowest common denominator reader/viewer can get it. I understand that reason and in some ways I suppose it is commendable not to be too "in the weeds" but some issues about financial, foreign, health and other policies really do need to be talked about at a bit higher than Homer Simpson levels if you want to really talk about them.

2. The worst one - (I know that was the one above, this is tied for first) - Pack Mentality. If it somehow becomes conventional wisdom that "Clinton is a bore" or "Trump had a terrible inaugural speech" (etc etec etc) it becomes almost impossible to write or report against that.

3. Final - Internet Click/Ratings bias. Do the easy and sexy instead of the serious. (Note - this has existed forever and on a human level and from a business standpoint it is understandable. If you owned a media outlet in China would you want to report what is most popular and got the best ratings (and ad revenue) or what is boring and "right").

That said you are going down a dangerous hole with this talk about how no media can be trusted, etc.

Perhaps some of what you say has merit about bias, but my point is different. Did you google "The Agency" from the NYTimes and read it? One of the most terrifying points is kind of glossed over, but it is that by doing all of the things Putin is doing, he has a different trick in mind. If he can convince enough people that nothing can be trusted, that any news can be purchased or is at best biased at the start, that there is no such thing as objective truth, than Putin will have done more damage to the USA than we did to Japan when we bombed them.

If no newspaper can be read, no radio news report believed, no tv news show watched, no documentary worth a viewing, than we are so effed you cannot believe it. Then everyone will just pick their own truth and we will have no common ground from which to start a conversation.

Let me put it this way. Lets say I have a neighbor on Long Island where I am right now for a business deal. Let's say we both read the NY Times. Let's say the NYTimes says that Trump wants to reduce taxes by 20 percent and economists say only half of that will be made up by the increased economic benefits. I can wander over to my neighbors house with a six pack and if he likes talking politics we can bs about it. I may say we should take care of the deficit first. He may say we should simply cut spending. His wife might pass by and chime in on how they should cut more spending but in no case should they cut education spending. WHATEVER that is a made up example

BUT, if I read one website that says Trumps cuts will explode the deficit and my neighbor reads one that says that the cuts are too small, they need to be twice as big so as to not have a deficit, in other words if we are living in two completely different informational orbits it is tough to have a conversation.

We have a lot of that today. I don't know how a listener of Rush Limbaugh and viewer of Fox News can talk politics with someone who watches Rachel Maddow and reads DailyKos and MoveOn.

And then you have this.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/24/news/economy/trump-administration-unemployment-bls/index.html

And this leads to what I am talking about.

We are not discussing issues from one basis point. The situation is Y, what are we going to do about it. We are disussing it as some of us are saying the situation is X what are we going to do about it (though the actual situation is Y), and others are saying the situation is Z what are we going to do about it (though the actual situation is Y).

Again, not to repeat myself but please, please read "The Agency" from the NYTimes which talks about how the Putin campaign is trying to screw up the idea of objective information itself.

The Agency. NY Times. Google. (I cannot link it from the phone I am on so I can only ask you to google it).

I want to commend you on your post. I have some disagreements on what you have stated. You reference how Trump may want to change how unemployment is calculated. A similar act was done under Obama, but I do not want to go there. What I find most disconcerting is not what is reported, but what is not reported. This is where the bias occurs on both sides of the fence. I list below two articles which address economic realities. I yahooed, binged and googled each of these articles and one does not come up with the analysis or the study in mainstream press, but I get Newsmax and some other off market publications. Both are pretty significant issues that should be reported, but were not. The study came out at the same time President Obama was gloating about his job creation which other publications have indicated that about 50% were retail or close to minimum jobs which was seen nowhere. Was the omission of these relevant facts by the media due to bias or incompetence? Was it intentional or negligence?

95% of the jobs created during Obama were either part time or contract job per a study by a Harvard and Princeton professors.

https://www.investing.com/news/econ...ing-obama-era-part-time,-contract-work-449057

The real unemployment rate is over 9% as used by the Fed to measure the economy. The Fed does not use the rate as was supplied/highlighted by the Obama Admin. I could get you the article of how and when unemployment's measurement was changed during President Obama's administration

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-real-unemployment-rate-3306198

Personally, I go to Real Clear Politics and get something from every side.

As to Hairbug and if my child was a potential recruit, I would push my child away from him. There are more facts here that are missing.
 
The issue with unemployment stats under Obama is that unemployed workers were dropped from unemployment stats if they had not found a job after one or two years. In many cases, baby boomers decided to retire rather than continue looking for jobs. I know many people in this boat. Therefore, I think unemployment is higher than 4% but is not as high as 9%. The economy is worlds better than it was in 2008-2009, but it has not seen much of a return of manufacturing jobs. Many service jobs have moved overseas.

My understanding is that most jobs created under Obama have been in the retail and service sector, and companies avoid paying benefits by not hiring workers full time. Companies used to hire full-time people but they don't bother anymore in order to cut costs. Companies like Walmart essentially use the US government to provide the health benefits they once provided.

It will be interesting to see how much manufacturing and full-time service jobs will return with lower corporate taxes and fewer regulations.
 
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