heard that the cats had a great weekend

[IGNORE]

One point guard will solve most of our problems. The foundation is there at every other position for us to at least show signs of hope. Hopefully Buie can be that guy if we don't land a transfer.

Says who?

Wing: Gaines - decent rotation guy
Wing: Kopp - has not proven anything
Wing: Nance - less than Kopp has proven
Center: Young - wasn’t good enough to burn a shirt

Turner - recent rotation guy
Beran - has yet to even practice at a college level

Bum - he’s barely out of diapers.

There is zero established foundation. There is hope. And that’s dwindling.

And while CCC has brought the best recruits, he has not brought in the best players. Anyone have any CCC player on NU All Time 2-deep?

 

[scru]

Says who?

Wing: Gaines - decent rotation guy
Wing: Kopp - has not proven anything
Wing: Nance - less than Kopp has proven
Center: Young - wasn’t good enough to burn a shirt

Turner - recent rotation guy
Beran - has yet to even practice at a college level

Bum - he’s barely out of diapers.

There is zero established foundation. There is hope. And that’s dwindling.

And while CCC has brought the best recruits, he has not brought in the best players. Anyone have any CCC player on NU All Time 2-deep?

I only know the modern era, since 1990s. For that period, I'd have BMac and Law both on the 2 deep at their positions. Shurna ahead of Law. BMac ahead of Juice, followed by Baldwin. Which PG would you put ahead of BMac, all time assists leader who led the team to the NCAAs?

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Says who?

Wing: Gaines - decent rotation guy
Wing: Kopp - has not proven anything
Wing: Nance - less than Kopp has proven
Center: Young - wasn’t good enough to burn a shirt

Turner - recent rotation guy
Beran - has yet to even practice at a college level

Bum - he’s barely out of diapers.

There is zero established foundation. There is hope. And that’s dwindling.

And while CCC has brought the best recruits, he has not brought in the best players. Anyone have any CCC player on NU All Time 2-deep?

IGNORE - i am continually amazed at your pessimism. i am not saying you are not a fan. and you are welcome to show your fandom however you choose - but i find it strange you put forth so much effort to look at things from the negative side.

i can't argue with what you said. next year is a wash - its a rebuild with getting experience and minutes for the young guys (as i said many times like bmacs 1st year). i see it in terms of building for generation 2.0. and aside from blue bloods this is common across sports from every sport and league.

i think gaines senior year the cats will have a very solid roster

 

[Medill90]

I am a fan of Bob (Ignore)

He was a competitive diver who hit the water for NU.

Diver's are perfectionists. They don't get good by seeing good. They get good by seeing the bad....no matter how small it is.

Bob is a good guy. I'd bet a Rainbow Cone on that.

 

[DaCat]

I think xyzIgnore is fundamentally a good guy too. But his Debbie Downer posts can get old.

 

[IGNORE]

I only know the modern era, since 1990s. For that period, I'd have BMac and Law both on the 2 deep at their positions. Shurna ahead of Law. BMac ahead of Juice, followed by Baldwin. Which PG would you put ahead of BMac, all time assists leader who led the team to the NCAAs?

Questionable but Baldwin and Juice are both in the discussion. As for Law, name the spot, the two or three and who he beats. Law does not make my two deep.

 

[scru]

Questionable but Baldwin and Juice are both in the discussion. As for Law, name the spot, the two or three and who he beats. Law does not make my two deep.

I'd challenge you the same way. Who would you put ahead of Law at the 3 other than Shurna? Law was an elite defender who also is up there in rebounds and points. Shurna gets the nod as the all time scoring leader, of course, but he was also a defensive liability.

Now thinking about it further, I'd also put Pardon on the list, or at least in the discussion. Sure, Esh gets the nod for first team, but then who? Olah? Rankin? Oh, I got it... Dewy Williams!

This is NU basketball history here, xyz. It has been an overall pretty miserable ride with a few highlights along the way. The talent that CCC has brought in so far is a big improvement relative to the past, but no, does not put us on Sportscenter each night. I dont expect a miraculous catapult from the absolute basement of college basketball to an elite program that simply reloads and competes for Final Fours on a yearly basis. I'm looking for upwards trajectory with the recognition that setbacks may occur. The last two seasons were a setback, yes, but the talent arriving is still better than NU has had. They need to develop and the pieces need to fit.

Here is a reference for you. Remember this is before the last two seasons where Law and Pardon only got better.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...Skok&ust=1555760741338423&cshid=1555674339623

 

[NJCat]

I'd challenge you the same way. Who would you put ahead of Law at the 3 other than Shurna? Law was an elite defender who also is up there in rebounds and points. Shurna gets the nod as the all time scoring leader, of course, but he was also a defensive liability.
8423&cshid=1555674339623

Huh? Second all time in blocked shots and 10th all time in steals. He wasn't Sanjay Lumpkin but he was fine on that end.

 

[torque-cat]

Says who?

Wing: Gaines - decent rotation guy
Wing: Kopp - has not proven anything
Wing: Nance - less than Kopp has proven
Center: Young - wasn’t good enough to burn a shirt

Turner - recent rotation guy
Beran - has yet to even practice at a college level

Bum - he’s barely out of diapers.

There is zero established foundation. There is hope. And that’s dwindling.

And while CCC has brought the best recruits, he has not brought in the best players. Anyone have any CCC player on NU All Time 2-deep?

Since I started watching NU bball in mid-90s I have following CC recruits on 2-deep

BMac (perhaps competing with Juice for first team PG)
Pardon (2nd team center behind Esch)
Law (maybe 2nd team to Shurna for wing player, but I think Law is best when playing off the ball, which he didn't get to do this year)
Lindsey--honorable mention combo guard, though body language seemed like a challenge.

That ain't bad for a first round of recruits. Now we will see what the next generation brings with Gaines, Nance, Kopp and the incoming guys. I don't think CCs top guys were better than BC, KON etc... But he had more in a short period of time and better depth of talent (length, athleticism). I think BC does a lot more with less and his unconventional schemes and craftiness helped us compete with lesser talent. I don't see CC with any coaching edge in the BT, so he really needs to bring in and develop talent over a few years and hope they gel as upperclassmen.

 

[IGNORE]

I'd challenge you the same way. Who would you put ahead of Law at the 3 other than Shurna? Law was an elite defender who also is up there in rebounds and points. Shurna gets the nod as the all time scoring leader, of course, but he was also a defensive liability.

Now thinking about it further, I'd also put Pardon on the list, or at least in the discussion. Sure, Esh gets the nod for first team, but then who? Olah? Rankin? Oh, I got it... Dewy Williams!

This is NU basketball history here, xyz. It has been an overall pretty miserable ride with a few highlights along the way. The talent that CCC has brought in so far is a big improvement relative to the past, but no, does not put us on Sportscenter each night. I dont expect a miraculous catapult from the absolute basement of college basketball to an elite program that simply reloads and competes for Final Fours on a yearly basis. I'm looking for upwards trajectory with the recognition that setbacks may occur. The last two seasons were a setback, yes, but the talent arriving is still better than NU has had. They need to develop and the pieces need to fit.

Here is a reference for you. Remember this is before the last two seasons where Law and Pardon only got better.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi3i4HEitzhAhVEdt8KHWIzDlEQzPwBegQIARAB&url=https://www.insidenu.com/2017/4/12/15255232/the-top-10-northwestern-basketball-players-of-all-time&psig=AOvVaw2Up_4mntwGAIDT1eQkSkok&ust=1555760741338423&cshid=1555674339623

Crawford? Jim Stack. In the more modern era. If you go back further, there are others. Neloms - though he didn’t stay.

Pardon was a very nice player but no. Esch and Ruklick or Rankin at that spot.

 

[scru]

Crawford? Jim Stack. In the more modern era. If you go back further, there are others. Neloms - though he didn’t stay.

Pardon was a very nice player but no. Esch and Ruklick or Rankin at that spot.

I think you have an incorrect memory, or call it a fondness for the old times. I saw Rankin play in person, graduated in 97. Pardon would eat him up all day on both ends of the floor. I'd also take Law over Crawford, but I think he was more of a 2 anyway. Law by far the better defender. Both were very streaky shooters.

In my opinion, CCC has brought in more talent in less time than any other coach in NU history. And, the future looks even brighter.

The 2016 class was a miss, unfortunately. At the time, it looked great on paper. Didn't pan out, partly due to bad luck. Falzon also a bad luck situation as he looked promising as a FR.

Bottom line for me, I'm still very hopeful and generally optimistic for the future with CCC at the helm.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Crawford? Jim Stack. In the more modern era. If you go back further, there are others. Neloms - though he didn’t stay.

Pardon was a very nice player but no. Esch and Ruklick or Rankin at that spot.

Crawford? Close, but I'd take Law, similar on offense and better on defense. Stack was before my time, and Neloms (one of the few guys from that era who did stay) was a top guy on some bad teams, but he doesn't compare to Vic. Plus, Shurna was really more of a 4. I think you could make a pretty good case for the all-time NU as being:
BMac
Mckinney
Law
Shurna
Esch

 

[IGNORE]

Crawford? Close, but I'd take Law, similar on offense and better on defense. Stack was before my time, and Neloms (one of the few guys from that era who did stay) was a top guy on some bad teams, but he doesn't compare to Vic. Plus, Shurna was really more of a 4. I think you could make a pretty good case for the all-time NU as being:
BMac
Mckinney
Law
Shurna
Esch

Coble or VV at the four in mine. Shurna was a three. Didn’t see him, but could swear he was a PG and start over Mac for me. Not sure about the two.

 

[IdahoAlum]

You guys are leaving out Don Adams who, besides Billy McKinney, had the best NBA career of any former Cat. He averaged 15 points and 10 rebounds a game at NU.

 

[NUCat320]

Crawford? Jim Stack. In the more modern era. If you go back further, there are others. Neloms - though he didn’t stay.

Pardon was a very nice player but no. Esch and Ruklick or Rankin at that spot.

I mean, there are ~100 years of NU hoops history and, what, six years of CCC history.

Law, Mac, Pardon are all in the team photo of all time greats. That’s a huge hit rate.

Frankly, the problem has not been been recruiting at the high end - the problem has been the volume of misses...guys who contributed hardly at all, whether due to lack of development or offering insufficient talent or bad luck or injury.

Pardon was the only starter among a combined six recruits in 15-16. Gaines was the only recruit in 17.

 

[hdhntr1]

Coble or VV at the four in mine. Shurna was a three. Didn’t see him, but could swear he was a PG and start over Mac for me. Not sure about the two.

Coble played more like a 3. VV was more of a stretch 4 but also played more like a 3

 

[NJCat]

Coble played more like a 3. VV was more of a stretch 4 but also played more like a 3

Hardy was probably the best recent true 4, followed closely by Swopshire.

 

[Katatonic]

No, you can’t build a team that relies on grad transfers. It takes awhile to adjust to new teammates and a new system. NU needs to focus on being a strong developmental program.

While a rarity, TTech filled holes on its roster w/ 3 transfer (not sure if all were grad transfers) who were all top 5 scorers.

What do we get each year for football?? Usually among the lowest in the BIG right?? But if the kids fit a system- they can kick some ass for us!! I think we had trouble the last two years because of reasons that may very well be gone now??

Actually, recruiting for FB has not been far off for what Wisky, Iowa, Neb have been getting (Neb has since gotten a bump w/ the Frost hiring).

I only know the modern era, since 1990s. For that period, I'd have BMac and Law both on the 2 deep at their positions. Shurna ahead of Law. BMac ahead of Juice, followed by Baldwin. Which PG would you put ahead of BMac, all time assists leader who led the team to the NCAAs?

I'd put Juice ahead of BMac - better defender (despite his stature) and a more efficient scorer.

Only going back to my time...

1 - Juice, BMac
2 - Jitim, Cobb (healthy)
3 - Crawford, Law
4 - Shurna, VV
5 = Esch, Pardon

Put Law ahead of Coble b/c of the disparity on D, but was a close call.

Coble would be the 1st guy off the bench tho, adding instant offense.

If including transfers, would have Lambiotte starting at the 3.

Huh? Second all time in blocked shots and 10th all time in steals. He wasn't Sanjay Lumpkin but he was fine on that end.

Yeah, Johnny ended up being an OK defender (better than say, BMac at this position).

Otoh, Coble was pretty much a liability, but even Shurna didn't make those circus shots that Kevin did.