How much will Collins accomplish before Fitz wins the Big Ten West?
- Thread starter freewillie07
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CCC wil be retired before Fitz wins the Big 10 West. And Adam Cushing will STILL be the OL coach.
I disagree with you on the difficulty of basketball versus football. You must have three studs on a b-ball with good role players to support tem. Law, Lindsey and Mac are those 3. Skelly, Pardron, Falzon, Benson, Gaines and Brown, would field a starting 5 that would compete, imo, with any prior starting 5 that NU has fielded since 1975. You can get the recruits which can be hard based on grades, but then you have to develop and coach the players. You also can have chemistry problems.
Football is easier, imo. The key is offensive line. NU is the 6th best and could be the worst on the offensive line. This has to be the target and you must develop them. A good to great line year in year out gets you ten wins. A good offensive line makes your qb and rbs better because there is time to throw and holes are open. Over the last five years, look at how many times Iowa and Wiscy get ten wins. Generally, you stand a better chance to get them into your school and they can cause your program to be dominant. Since you have 85 players, you also can handle injuries, absences and misses on recruiting better. Look at what missing Kevin Coble I think this "It is harder in football to get good" is utter crap.
In my opinion, Fitz will never win the B10 West which means CCC will clean his clock in comparison.
And winning the West means you are only best among 7, while Collins needs to be best out of 14.....a much more difficult task IMHO. Collins has a better chance but it is still a tall order.
NU will be in the B10 tournament championship game within the next three years or less. The star I see for the program is Isaiah Brown. I hope I spelled his first name correctly. I have seen others question his game, but, imo, he has the game to go beyond Mac. I will ley football tix go to keep b-ball tix.
I love what Coach Collins has accomplished but the outsized expectations for both of our head coaches on this board are ridiculous.
Wait, you mean making the Tournament and losing in the first game doesn't warrant talk of the inevitability of winning a conference crown?
Next you'll tell us that casting every recruit as just the one Coach Collins wanted is also ridiculous.
I hope there is some intra-office (so to speak) competition between Collins and Fitz. If Collins goes to the Sweet 16 or better this year, I hope it lights a fire under Fitz' ass and he does whatever necessary to outdo Collins.
I also have no idea what I'm talking about and am an internet message board idiot, so this might make zero sense
I also have no idea what I'm talking about and am an internet message board idiot, so this might make zero sense
I am not placing any expectations, but am basing my opinion on a) recruiting classes CCC has brought in; and b) the player development by either him or his staff. We all know that talent is essential, but what I found remarkable was how Alex Olah developed as a player over his last three years. It also occurred with Scottie Lindsey. I think if he starts with better talent, he will bring NU to higher levels. I have never had such expectations for PF. Do not understand the love for him.
Last year, with two four-star recruits out for the season and Lindsey out for a key stretch, NU was within 2 duds against Illinois and a 3-pointer from Taphorn of tying for first in the Big Ten. Add to that not blowing a 62-55 lead against IU with 1:33 to play, and NU wins the conference outright.
Sure, NU won a couple close games, too, and pulled off a couple upsets. But to say they'll never be in the hunt for a Big Ten title is selling this squad way short.
Any team that makes the preseason top-25 has to be considered, at worst, a fringe contender for the conference title. Michigan State is going to be really good, but they are not a powerhouse (yet) on the level of the Oden-Conley OSU team or 2005 Illinois. Why won't we be in the conversation?
People will be happy with Collins as long as his 'Cats finish in the top 5 in the Big Ten standings, because top 5 will always be good enough get the 'Cats into the NCAAs. I think we're going to be waiting a long time for Collins to win the Big Ten Championship, and that will be okay with everybody. I DO think there's a good chance Collins will win the Big Ten Tourney someday.
The standard for Fitz naysayers is that he needs to finish in the top 2.
The standard for Fitz naysayers is that he needs to finish in the top 2.
Yeah, but winning those close games and pulling off those upsets is the flip side of the losses you mention.
The problem with perception is that we're hopelessly skewed as NU fans. We look at last year's team and see the best team any of us have ever seen take the court. We see that the team was KenPom #38 and RPI #51 and marvel that the numbers are actually that high. But from a national perspective, last year's team was a solid major conference team that got a 9-seed. For most other major conference schools, last year would be slightly over the baseline of acceptability. For the blue-blood schools that we'll need to surpass to win the Big Ten and/or compete for Final Fours, a 9-seed and a second-round exit would have fans asking what went wrong that year.
This isn't selling the team short, of course. Last year was the most fun I've ever had as an NU hoops fan and I'm excited to see where this year takes us. I'm thrilled that we no longer have to qualify "this was a good season" with "for Northwestern" and can instead fairly compare ourselves to the rest of the country. I also don't think it's fair to say that we'll never win the Big Ten, because we have no idea how good Collins can make this program. But I think it's more than a little premature to expect NU to be in the title hunt this year. We'll almost certainly be better, but being that good that fast is a huge hurdle to clear.
All that said, to answer the thread topic, if I had to bet on which of the two coaches will bring NU its next Big Ten title, I would wager all of my money on Collins.
Edit: 8-seed. Wow. Talk about a brain fart.
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NOT sure where you get FB is easier. Any given year, BIG has several national powerhouses in FB. Generally a team in the 3 team playoff And to win conference you have to get through them Top teams are there every year. Depth is such a big part of the equation because of so many injuries and so many play. . FOr example, right now we are down several DBs and LBs, our top player is significantly dinged etc. BB the BIG just has several very good teams. The top teams change from year to year. It was OSU, Ind, now MSU, MD, etc. It changes from year to year. The best of them still usually losses a number of games. When was the last team that went undefeated through conference? And while depth can be an issue, it is generally more of an asset than critical as it is in FB.
I am looking at getting to the B10 Championship game or competing for the B10 West Division. Year in year out, Iowa and Wisconsin compete very well in the B10. What do each team have in common? They develop superior offensive and defensive lineman. Most of their players are within the B10 footprint. Each school have very few skill position players that are game changers. Please note that I use the word develop. This is coaching. If you remember years ago, ABC would have the academic player of each team on a telecast. Invariably, it was an offensive linemen. There are plenty of lineman available who can get into Northwestern. NU has developed some defensive lineman who are in the NFL, but nothing on the offensive line. Minny under Jerry Kill developed good lineman and became competitive. Minny will blow right past us in the near future since its coach can develop lineman. If you were at the WMU v. NU game, you could see it firsthand. They were disciplined, big and tough. Football lives by the lineman. I know Wiscy has a running back history, but as a post somewhere on this board stated, Wiscy and Iowa running backs, qbs, and wide receivers disappear in the NFL.
Basketball on the other hand is based purely on talent. Last year, we could not stop Mario Tremble. We lose. I would posit that Illinois and Purdue who we lost to had more talent. It is harder to get the high level talent, but also have them play with half a brain. See Illinois. When you look at depth, please recall when Scottie Lindsey went down or recall the effect when Coble was out. One star player and the team was decimated. With Lindsey out, there was no starter except Mac who could put the ball on the deck and get to the rim. To reach elite levels, such as B10 Championship game, you need some NBA quality or high Eurpoean league quality players. Those are so few.
Your football knowledge is greater than your hoops smarts. Do you realize NU was already down 2 skilled players early in the year when Rap and Aaron couldn't play? Scottie was playing at an all Big 10 level when he went down, limiting NU to effectively an 8 man roster as Ash was buried in the rotation. Even with an injury decimated roster Nu had the best season in modern program history. It is not hard to imagine that this season could be even more special. Last year NU made the Big 10 Tournament semis and it is not unreasonable to expect them to be a finalist this year.
I am not saying depth does not matter in BB nor that injuries don't happen. But it is more possible to get through a season without meaningful injury and a pretty decent team can be arranged with as few as 7 players.
Look, I am not saying that the OL/DL formula cannot get you a long way. I also agree that we should be able to do better on OL than we have done. But even that takes pretty good depth with rotations and the injuries that occur. If you want to talk about losing a superstar, take a look at us say losing CT or JJ . And in FB, way more likely to happen.
I whole heartedly agree with you as to the potential for this upcoming year. The coaching is superb. When Pardon went down, Benson was inserted into the lineup. I thought he played very well. It was obvious that he has/had some athletic ability, but he did not look lost or not ready. Benson played really well considering the circumstances and contributed. I attribute this not only to his talent, but to a great degree on the coaching. The coaching is what will propel the team.
For this next year, I do not think Sanjay leaving will be that great a loss. It is not like he was a college version of Pau Silas. Rap and Aaron should fill his spot and offer great offensive flexibility. The biggest area of improvement I hoping for is with Mr. Brown. We were gashed by small quick guards. I see him as the first guy off the bench spelling Lindsey, Law and Mac. We can play Mr. Brown on the other team's point guard which will give Mac a chance to cover a slower person. My bet is that Mr. Brown played little defense in high school. I think we will see a huge improvement from him defensively. We know he can score. If he can play effectively for 8 to 9 minutes a half, we will be really special with two folks who can break down their opponent. If he learns to pass, it will be the Duke offense of drive and dish to shooters. Very, very excited.
As to football, I am looking forward to my tailgate.
Fitz is the best thing for NU BB. No other football coach could have dragged NU football behind BB.
We arent that great in football but we are hopelessly boring.
We arent that great in football but we are hopelessly boring.
You're setting the bar awfully high. Illinois in 2005 comes to mind, just off the top of my head.
But it's a different sport, and it's much more difficult to be dominant every game when you're playing 30+ games as opposed to 12. So in that sense I agree.
Is it it also easier to have one or two upset wins or losses to skew a season record in football? In BB seems like there are more opportunities for the record to actually reflect the ability of the team. Serious question.
I would definitely think so. The fewer games played, the fewer chances for a lucky break to be balanced out the other way.
Sorry, I can't take you seriously when you incorrectly state the seeding of NU's first-ever NCAA team.
Ha, my mistake. I remembered we were underdogs to Vanderbilt and misremembered the seed. The point still holds for an 8-seed.
This is so long ago I forget exactly how the story went, but it was along these lines, so here goes:
Around this time last year we were all talking about basketball after the ISU loss blah blah blah and someone on the boards met B- Mac's dad at a football tailgate. We had all written off Sanjay as the odd man out for PT, and whoever met his dad mentioned that to Mr. B-Mac. Mr. B-Mac said something along the lines of "no no no... you don't understand how good Sanjay is. He's one of the absolute best players on the team". Obviously not word for word, but something close to this.
I don't know a thing about basketball but I think his loss will hurt in more ways than one. Not necessarily a huge loss, but a pretty significant one nonetheless. I'm assuming he did all the little things box scores don't measure that puts teams over the top. Maybe someone who knows basketball more than I do can chime in.
Sanjay was certainly a "glue guy" and a versatile defender across positions, but there is no question he was an offensive liability. Having Falzon, and likely Ivanauskas, is going to make NU that much more dangerous as far as scoring goes. Teams won't be able to sell out as much to hound BMac. Law and Lindsey will have wider cutting lanes since defenders can't sag off Sanjay.
It's possible that Falzon will still be a weak defender, and that will hurt. But I'm confident he'll make it up on offense.
Collins will do the following:
Make tourney 2 consecutive years
Win Big
Make final four
Win NCAA title
Host SNL
Be the mastermind behind the development of a Las Vegas style strip on central road in Evanston.
Open up a 12 store clothing store chain in Durham for big and tall men.
Be elected Governor of Illinois, losing only the city of Rantoul.
Repeal Illinois soda pop tax.
Replace Daniel Craig in the next James Bond movie.
Start a band with Brian James and open on Pearl Jam's 40th anniversary tour.
Win the World Series of Poker.
Visit "Rocket Man" and negotiate the nuclear disarmament of North Korea.
Apologies for selling CCC expectations a little short for many.
Excellent. You left out peace in the Middle East and ending World Hunger but he can do that after he completes this list.
Those wil already be solved by Coach K by the time CCC gets around to it.
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