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Is it all going down the drain?

Katatonic said:
But it's not just that (injuries transfers, etc.) - part of the problem is that too few of CC's recruits end up as impact frosh (at least 1 in each class needs to be an impact frosh).

How would much better would this team be w/ an Ayo, THT or a frosh Coffey?

UMD has 3 frosh who are significant contributors.

Aside from BMac and Law, there haven't been impact players as frosh despite the improvement in recruiting ratings.
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Collins made the right choice in regards to Ayo...bird in the hand even though Ayo is a potential pro.

THT was a top 60 prep with an NBA body, so sure he would have been great. But NU didn't make his final cut so what is Collins supposed to do.

Coffey never would have gotten into NU.

I think what you're saying is that Collins and his frosh would be a lot better if NU wasn't NU. The fact that NU isn't another school is not the fault of Collins.
 
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Jaycg15 said:
He's the only guy that's played decent, and he's been completely one dimensional and can't guard. He is a good shooter though, but he was unable to play our defensive scheme.

Also, might want to fact check yourself. We had five transfers. Eboigbodin, Vesel, and Lucas all were midmajor talents. Finke could've been a nice role player, but he didn't do anything this season until he started playing bad WAC teams. Black got his degree, got married, and went pro in Europe.
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Sorry, guess I should have said six players who left with eligibility remaining, which included Black. To me Black leaving had the same impact as a transfer out, though your are technically correct that he didn't transfer. Still, that's a lot, can't think of another Power 5 team last year who had as many...
 
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Medill90 said:
Collins made the right choice in regards to Ayo...bird in the hand even though Ayo is a potential pro.

THT was a top 60 prep with an NBA body, so sure he would have been great. But NU didn't make his final cut so what is Collins supposed to do.

Coffey never would have gotten into NU.

I think what you're saying is that Collins and his frosh would be a lot better if NU wasn't NU. The fact that NU isn't another school is not the fault of Collins.
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I'm not saying that CC should have gone after/gotten Ayo, THT, etc. specifically, but rather that he needed at least one frosh from every recruiting class to be that type of a player - an impact player/significant contributor in their 1st year.

Coble was an impact player as a frosh.

The next season, it was Juice.

After that, it was Shurna.

After that, Crawford, then Cobb.

Heck, even despite all the flack that he got, Sobo as a frosh managed to avg. 8.3 pp and 3.7 apg and make the All-B1G frosh team.

Certainly don't expect all frosh players (regardless of recruiting ranking) to be impact players from the start, but it's not unreasonable to expect 1 per class to be so.

And since recruiting is supposed to be CC's forte, expect him to bring in more impact frosh than BC.
 
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Katatonic said:
I'm not saying that CC should have gone after/gotten Ayo, THT, etc. specifically, but rather that he needed at least one frosh from every recruiting class to be that type of a player - an impact player/significant contributor in their 1st year.

Coble was an impact player as a frosh.

The next season, it was Juice.

After that, it was Shurna.

After that, Crawford, then Cobb.

Heck, even despite all the flack that he got, Sobo as a frosh managed to avg. 8.3 pp and 3.7 apg and make the All-B1G frosh team.

Certainly don't expect all frosh players (regardless of recruiting ranking) to be impact players from the start, but it's not unreasonable to expect 1 per class to be so.

And since recruiting is supposed to be CC's forte, expect him to bring in more impact frosh than BC.
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That's fair and thanks for the clarification.
 
^ The criticism of BC was that he didn't bring in enough of such type of players to build the depth to overcome the inevitable injury issues.

But he still was able to add a talent each year to replace a graduating SR - where the 'Cats remained on the bubble and still made the post-season (albeit, not what everyone wanted).

My fear is that CC will start to lose momentum again when it comes to recruiting (already occurred when the 'Cats didn't make the post-season for 3 seasons and Gaines was the only recruit in his class, which was reversed when the 'Cats made the Dance) and recruiting is more crucial for success under CC's scheme.

People may scoff at the post-season if it's the NIT, but at least a coach can still pitch a recruit that he's the difference-maker that will spring the team to the NCAAs.

Much more difficult to make that claim, when the team isn't close.

A couple of the frosh need to make that soph leap and a couple of the incoming frosh need to be impact players from the start or else it's going to be another long season and things will get tougher on the recruiting trail.

Take issue w/ the notion of making the Dance once every 5-7 yrs (and not making it to the post-season most other years) is acceptable - b/c that's not a recipe for success as recruiting would dry up.
 
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Someone else wrote it — in a twisted way, “you can be the first” was a great recruiting pitch and, to wit, that first class had two all timers, another starter, and a reliable bench piece.

At this point, the pitch is playing time and turn it around and the coach has a contract for your whole career. NU is like any other program routinely in the bottom quartile of the P5ish.

Next year is big for momentum — or, really, did getting unstuck.
 
mikewebb68 said:
Sorry, guess I should have said six players who left with eligibility remaining, which included Black. To me Black leaving had the same impact as a transfer out, though your are technically correct that he didn't transfer. Still, that's a lot, can't think of another Power 5 team last year who had as many...
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I guess this is karma. Only returning 6 scholarship players at most next season. What do you have to say about that?
 
Jaycg15 said:
I guess this is karma. Only returning 6 scholarship players at most next season. What do you have to say about that?
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Of course, it doesn' change anything at sll about my post. And it means no excuses for failing to sweep us next year. If you don't , it is going to be super fun to providre you with a friendly reminder of yhis post...so basically you bringing this up was a win-win, thanks for playing!
 
mikewebb68 said:
Of course, it doesn' change anything at sll about my post. And it means no excuses for failing to sweep us next year. If you don't , it is going to be super fun to providre you with a friendly reminder of yhis post...so basically you bringing this up was a win-win, thanks for playing!
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You're making the assumption that your team wins a game against us for that win-win. That's quite the leap, and that's high-level spin to call this scenario a win of any kind. I don't think you will be winning much of anything next season, so I understand why you would try to convince yourself of that.
 
Purple Pile Driver said:
It means I expect us to be like the Fighting Undies were in 2017-2018.

BTW, nice dig up of the month old comment. Looks like we have found the Uof I version of Bob.
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Someone else posted in the thread which returned me to my most recent viewing of it. Not like I was digging. His moronic comment fell into my lap. However, those are as common as a raindrop in a monsoon for Mikey.

I'd expect you to be worse than that. What player do you have that's as good as Leron Black or Trent Frazier was that year?
 
Jaycg15 said:
Someone else posted in the thread which returned me to my most recent viewing of it. Not like I was digging. His moronic comment fell into my lap. However, those are as common as a raindrop in a monsoon for Mikey.

I'd expect you to be worse than that. What player do you have that's as good as Leron Black or Trent Frazier was that year?
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You might be right, we might be entering a Lovie like period for the BB team.
 
Jaycg15 said:
Someone else posted in the thread which returned me to my most recent viewing of it. Not like I was digging. His moronic comment fell into my lap. However, those are as common as a raindrop in a monsoon for Mikey.

I'd expect you to be worse than that. What player do you have that's as good as Leron Black or Trent Frazier was that year?
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Bad is bad. That Illini team was a train wreck. We should be on par with that as long as we don’t lose anymore.
 
Katatonic said:
I'm not saying that CC should have gone after/gotten Ayo, THT, etc. specifically, but rather that he needed at least one frosh from every recruiting class to be that type of a player - an impact player/significant contributor in their 1st year.

Coble was an impact player as a frosh.

The next season, it was Juice.

After that, it was Shurna.

After that, Crawford, then Cobb.

Heck, even despite all the flack that he got, Sobo as a frosh managed to avg. 8.3 pp and 3.7 apg and make the All-B1G frosh team.

Certainly don't expect all frosh players (regardless of recruiting ranking) to be impact players from the start, but it's not unreasonable to expect 1 per class to be so.

And since recruiting is supposed to be CC's forte, expect him to bring in more impact frosh than BC.
Click to expand...
I would say that CCC has had several of those in his 6 years here (5 recruiting classes) BMac fit that mold and Law as well. Falzon made an impact as a Frosh and Pardon was his Frosh year even though it did not start till midway through the season, And considering you are calling Shurna an impact player as a Frosh, by the end of last year Gaines had made that leap and Kopp has this year. And had Lathon gotten here, I would imagine he would have fit the role, So there you are with one per year that you say we haven't had.

One thing you might not be considering is that in order to get minutes on the floor for CCC, you have to play D and many Frosh are not ready for that. The other is that in the last few years there were guys in front of the Frosh so they were not getting the minutes from the beginning of the year that guys got earlier. Neither was really the case under BC
 
Jaycg15 said:
You were worse than that this year. Safe to say you'll be much worse than that team assuming you don't lose more.
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Don’t think we were, but you have to rationalize a string of subpar Illini seasons somehow. I guess you don’t count OOC.

Anyway great to see the Fighting Undie fans get off the Matt and stick out their chests on the performance and future of their squad. They are coming off their worst record of all time. Yes, I expect NU to be bad next year, but let’s not act like the Illini will be powerful.

Yes, Willy this is the BB board, but haven’t you heard the Fighting Lovie’s have started to recruit some 4 stars to add to there team and I am sure NU will be put back in their rightful place and replace them in the cellar. :(
 
Purple Pile Driver said:
Don’t think we were, but you have to rationalize a string of subpar Illini seasons somehow. I guess you don’t count OOC.

Anyway great to see the Fighting Undie fans get off the Matt and stick out their chests on the performance and future of their squad. They are coming off their worst record of all time. Yes, I expect NU to be bad next year, but let’s not act like the Illini will be powerful.

Yes, Willy this is the BB board, but haven’t you heard the Fighting Lovie’s have started to recruit some 4 stars to add to there team and I am sure NU will be put back in their rightful place and replace them in the cellar. :(
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The fighting Lovie's are sure strong , as they need to hold up the entire league! Or is it the fighting otters?
 
mikewebb68 said:
Of course, it doesn' change anything at sll about my post. And it means no excuses for failing to sweep us next year. If you don't , it is going to be super fun to providre you with a friendly reminder of yhis post...so basically you bringing this up was a win-win, thanks for playing!
Click to expand...

Ugh, we finished dead last and you're still trashing an opponent that beat us twice?
 
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Lol gotta love the chest thumping abput a 21 loss team. We set a school record, we must be great!
Pukecat said:
Ugh, we finished dead last and you're still trashing an opponent that beat us twice?
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Yup. Deal with it, snowflake...
 
Purple Pile Driver said:
You might be right, we might be entering a Lovie like period for the BB team.
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I don't think so. If Coach Collins doesn't suffer any more attrition, we are sure to be good in 2-3 years. It's just a question of whether or not he can hold onto these guys during bad times.
 
mikewebb68 said:
Lol gotta love the chest thumping abput a 21 loss team. We set a school record, we must be great!

Yup. Deal with it, snowflake...
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It just shows your complete lack of imagination that you have to use a politically twinged taunt like that. Your repeated slamming of Illinois when they beat us twice and finished higher than us is the height of arrogance, not to mention stupidity.
 
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Purple Pile Driver said:
Don’t think we were, but you have to rationalize a string of subpar Illini seasons somehow. I guess you don’t count OOC.

Anyway great to see the Fighting Undie fans get off the Matt and stick out their chests on the performance and future of their squad. They are coming off their worst record of all time. Yes, I expect NU to be bad next year, but let’s not act like the Illini will be powerful.

Yes, Willy this is the BB board, but haven’t you heard the Fighting Lovie’s have started to recruit some 4 stars to add to there team and I am sure NU will be put back in their rightful place and replace them in the cellar. :(
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Illinois should be a tournament team next season. If Ayo leaves, which sounds less and less likely, we will be on the bubble at the least. We return 70% of our minutes, and we will add at least one impact transfer along with an immediate impact freshmen big.

Our arrows are pointing in completely opposite directions. I suppose you could say they are both pointing in the same direction if you're looking at the direction in respect to historical tendency.
 
Pukecat said:
It just shows your complete lack of imagination that you have to use a politically twinged taunt like that. Your repeated slamming of Illinois when they beat us twice and finished higher than us is the height of arrogance, not to mention stupidity.
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Uh, you did see the opposing fan who dredged up this old thread just to troll, correct?
 
Jaycg15 said:
I got the notification of the thread being posted in. Ie I didn't rejuvenate the thread.
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Don't you it's time you go to the fighting Otters board and discuss Illinois next tournament game this year? Oh wait , sorry that's not happening but guess you try and come up with a mascot that's not racist.
 
willycat said:
Don't you it's time you go to the fighting Otters board and discuss Illinois next tournament game this year? Oh wait , sorry that's not happening but guess you try and come up with a mascot that's not racist.
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Is this what a good insult looks like on this board?
 
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Is it all going down the drain? No. C’mon. Really?

Was it painful to renew my season tix? A bit, but no more painful than enduring this past season. THIS IS NORTHWESTERN BASKETBALL. It hurts. I was an optimistic fool to even notion that it would be smooth sailing once we made the dance. Is this a setback? Of course. Teddy’s article was a pretty fair analysis, imo. And as I mentioned a bit ago, I’m “all in” on CCC.

Ash and Falzon aren’t a surprise. They aren’t a net loss either. Period. Is is a bad look for CCC? Yes, but there is zero evidence that their departures are related to Benson’s. Any such discussion is way-too-premature speculation. We all knew that Baldwin’s and Gates’ departures wouldn’t be good for us. But, that happens to good assistant coaches. Good for them.

Benson obviously was a surprise, but who knew he had his degree? (I didn’t). And, while we could have used him he’s hardly indispensable, other than I loved his vibe - dancing pregame ritual and positive locker room attitude. And BTW, good for him. We’ll probably see him in next years tournament.

I don’t have anything else to say other than 1) I’m withholding judgement, while being high on Gaines, Kopp, and Nance. 2) We all saw (painfully) that next year wb a rebuilding year anyway. 3) It’s probably better to rebuild when you can guarantee top talent significant minutes.

And while I generally hate this phrase, it is time for us fans to put on our big boy pants.
 
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willycat said:
As I said it's way past the time you leave. Moderators, this troll is a nuisance!
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Oh, please. Mike Webb spouts off about Illinois, and all I do is return the favor I'm the exact way he did and you guys can't take the heat. Mommy!
 
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