Baldwin to get PBJ - I'm down with that.
It’s time to move on from Collins
- Thread starter TheC
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Baldwin to get PBJ - I'm down with that.
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its a shame Teddy Greenstein is covering point spreads these days. Would’ve been prime time to serve up a story on how well respected and on the rise Collins is. (Saw Cormac Ryan playing for ND the other day. Jogged my memory of that time Greenstein ran an NU-tinged piece on him — when he was a Wildcat recruit.)
Fvck the fanbase. Find a coach that can win and that will fire up the fanbase.
This an over reaction. Team missed free throws from a normally good free throw shooting team is not coaching. Missed wide open shots that’s not coaching. Coaching is getting them an offense that gets them open shots. They just didn’t hit. To call for his head after 1 loss is ludicrous.
The arguments that these players are bad and or aren’t developing is horrible. Just because shots aren’t falling doesn’t mean there’s strides in other parts of the game. Buie is filling a completely different role then he did last year and no one is talking about it. He’s been the main distributor. Ya he choked last night. The offense still runs best when he’s on the floor.
The hate for nance is cuz you hyped him to much in your minds and held him to unrealistic expectations. Dude is athletic and smooth. Long and great at help D. Not a great shooter but good enough. He passes really well too. He’s improved every season as well.
Who the hell cares if young starts. It’s about who logs the most min and guess what young logged a lot of min last night.
This team had the athletes and the better team last night. They just choked. You can’t miss that many shots and not rebound. You can’t miss free throws down the stretch. You can’t have your best scorer have that off a night. I don’t see this game as Collins fault. Players failed him last night. If this game repeats itself throughout the season then blame it on him. This whole thread is a crazy overreaction though.
The arguments that these players are bad and or aren’t developing is horrible. Just because shots aren’t falling doesn’t mean there’s strides in other parts of the game. Buie is filling a completely different role then he did last year and no one is talking about it. He’s been the main distributor. Ya he choked last night. The offense still runs best when he’s on the floor.
The hate for nance is cuz you hyped him to much in your minds and held him to unrealistic expectations. Dude is athletic and smooth. Long and great at help D. Not a great shooter but good enough. He passes really well too. He’s improved every season as well.
Who the hell cares if young starts. It’s about who logs the most min and guess what young logged a lot of min last night.
This team had the athletes and the better team last night. They just choked. You can’t miss that many shots and not rebound. You can’t miss free throws down the stretch. You can’t have your best scorer have that off a night. I don’t see this game as Collins fault. Players failed him last night. If this game repeats itself throughout the season then blame it on him. This whole thread is a crazy overreaction though.
I'm not calling for his head after 1 loss, I'm calling for his head after this:
15-17 (6-12) 10th
13-19 (4-16) 14th
8-22 (3-17) 13th
...and then last night's loss, to a mediocre Pitt team, which looked exactly like the countless other awful losses over the past 3+ seasons that have reduced us once again to the worst program in the conference.
You play as you practice. Their offensive rebounding margin was horrendous. The continued inability to get the ball inbounds and deal with pressure is pure and simple coaching.
The problem with shooting was, in my opinion, not one of missing “wide open shots.” In my opinion, the problem, especially noticeable in the first half, was jacking up bad shots. Repeatedly.
I attended and am a SLU fan, but have been a cats fan my entire life since I grew up in Chicago. The SLU team this year would crush Collins team, and it’s all because Travis Ford (SLU coach) preaches toughness. Need a new coach for the cats who puts a bigger emphasis on toughness not only in practice but in the recruits he brings in.
1 choke happens to the best. Should we cue how many we had last year?
Losing close games everyone does. Blowing comfortable leads in a spectacular way, over and over again, takes a special talent.
PS - Did not see all those open shots. Saw a lot of bad shots though.
PPS - Yet, not calling for a coaching change, but it's more and more painful as time goes by to swallow the mediocre coaching
PPPS - Not even convinced Pitt is that mediocre of a team. Their 3 main guys are a sophomore and 2 juniors. They develop within season and I see them being a mid pack team with a chance of dancing next season.
PPPPS - We have talent, we also have inability to put it to good use
Losing close games everyone does. Blowing comfortable leads in a spectacular way, over and over again, takes a special talent.
PS - Did not see all those open shots. Saw a lot of bad shots though.
PPS - Yet, not calling for a coaching change, but it's more and more painful as time goes by to swallow the mediocre coaching
PPPS - Not even convinced Pitt is that mediocre of a team. Their 3 main guys are a sophomore and 2 juniors. They develop within season and I see them being a mid pack team with a chance of dancing next season.
PPPPS - We have talent, we also have inability to put it to good use
Season before those 24-12 (10-8) Tied for 5th
We’ve had 2 5th place finshes since the 1960’s.
Historically deep B1G the past couple years. As well as this year.
Sorry to break it to you but NU is mediocre as well. That’s not gonna change over 3 seasons that’s gonna take time. We’ve never been not one of the worst programs in the conference for more than like 2 seasons. Let Chris coach out his contract. NU has more depth then it has since I’ve been alive. We were the better team last night just choked. When we win it doesn’t feel like they’re overachieving. This team has the potential to pull an upset or two off and then this boards mood will switch right back around.
If you give me the Collins had time line... well he got a tournament appearance and that buys him till the end of his contract if we don’t see a chance for another tourney at that point then you start looking for another coach.
I'll take your word for it, since it happens so rarely it's hard to tell.
Also - he's under contract until 2025. NU won't buy out that many years, so it's a moot point, but I really don't think we need four more seasons after this one to draw a conclusion if they don't get better.
This is a really good insight. Collins' first teams, even though they lacked talent and experience, were tough on defense and turned many potential blowouts into competitive games. The 2017 team was not overwhelming and lost a number of games it could or should have won, but they always fought hard. Winning at the Kohl Center without Scottie Lindsey was all toughness by McIntosh and the gang. It almost feels like this program lost its soul after Salt Lake City. Too much national media, too much adulation. Now we're told we have the best recruits in program history out there, but they don't seem to develop much year over year and they wilt in big moments. I don't know how Collins can reset this mess.
I think it's unfair for people to say that these players haven't grown year over year. A) We are three games in. B) The first two games were against terrible competition, so it's hard to really get any sort of read from those. But if you are including those two games (I'm not), everyone pretty much played great in those.
So people are basically saying these guys haven't grown based on one game, last night's loss to Pitt. And look, it was a terrible game and frustrated the hell out of me. It looks like the same old thing where we can't finish a game. But I don't think it's accurate to say that our recruits aren't developing YOY. I see a different Boo in that he is much more of a facilitator and guys like Beran, Kopp, and Nance have all physically grown too. Kopp had a bad night last night, but I think he'll be a much more consistent player this year. And we'll see on the others.
Maybe these guys don't develop as much as we hoped, but I think it's too early to say at this point based on what has been played so far.
This is one of the better comments in this thread. As I said in the last week or so, it's becoming pretty obvious what Nance is. If you want to put some of that on CC, I can go with that. But a pretty soft player and a love affair with a pretty mediocre 3-pt shot isn't all Collins.
But TKFH, you better get accustomed to the idea that some out here are just waiting ... itching ... drooling to shred Collins. Three games into a season is a new record.
I'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve criticism and a close watch. But killing him after three games ...?
While the choke job down the stretch last night was infuriating, the problems with this team were apparent for most of the game. It's the same problems that have plagued us the past few years.
Couldn't secure rebounds - not sure if this is athleticism or toughness, but that was awful.
Can't stop penetration without fouling. That last play to win the game was ridiculous. Their point guard just drove right to the cup and no one was going to stop him. How come our guards can never get to the cup on an end of half/game play?
No rhyme or reason on offense. It was just Buie dribbling around for 20 seconds and then either jacking up a wild shot or occasionally trying to find Young. What happened to the other three guys? Well... they were busy being physically dominated by Pitt defenders who were in each of our guy's chest all over the floor. They were right up on our guys even 25-30 feet from the basket and we couldn't take advantage of that. I felt like I was watching NU football with wide receivers who can't get any separation. Buie couldn't pass to anyone because our guys couldn't shed their defender to get open for a pass. A coach needs to either scheme to take advantage of this or inspire better to get his guys to fight harder.
But the main reason I think it's time for a change is that things are getting worse instead of better. The post-tourny team rebuild is now in Year 3 and I see no signs of improvement. Year 2 was worse than Year 1 and Year 3 is starting to look as bad if not worse than Year 2. That is not a good sign and means it's time for a change.
Couldn't secure rebounds - not sure if this is athleticism or toughness, but that was awful.
Can't stop penetration without fouling. That last play to win the game was ridiculous. Their point guard just drove right to the cup and no one was going to stop him. How come our guards can never get to the cup on an end of half/game play?
No rhyme or reason on offense. It was just Buie dribbling around for 20 seconds and then either jacking up a wild shot or occasionally trying to find Young. What happened to the other three guys? Well... they were busy being physically dominated by Pitt defenders who were in each of our guy's chest all over the floor. They were right up on our guys even 25-30 feet from the basket and we couldn't take advantage of that. I felt like I was watching NU football with wide receivers who can't get any separation. Buie couldn't pass to anyone because our guys couldn't shed their defender to get open for a pass. A coach needs to either scheme to take advantage of this or inspire better to get his guys to fight harder.
But the main reason I think it's time for a change is that things are getting worse instead of better. The post-tourny team rebuild is now in Year 3 and I see no signs of improvement. Year 2 was worse than Year 1 and Year 3 is starting to look as bad if not worse than Year 2. That is not a good sign and means it's time for a change.
Not me.... this is the first time I've felt this way about Collins. After the tourny year, I thought he was our savior. After the strange follow-up year, I was disappointed, but figured it was a fluke and he'd set things straight. After last year, I was pretty bummed, but had visions of PBJ and other top recruits in my head. But that is clearly not materializing. So what is left?
Also, Collins absolutely raised our hopes on Nance. He's the one who overhyped this guy. I think we're just frustrated with 4-star recruits who never materialize. I think Law is the only one of the CCC 4-stars who made an impact. While some big time recruits are going to be a bust, it feels like all of CCCs big recruits have busted except Law.
That's why I said, take PBJ out of the equation. IMO Pat Baldwin would do a real good job at NU. I like Porter Moser too.
Agreed. Rebounding and in-bounding the ball can be coached and taught. I don't think I've ever heard of a game in which one of two relatively equal teams had 19 offensive rebounds to the other's 4. Just think about how many additional opportunities that gave Pitt to score. Ryan Young might not look real athletic, but he knows a lot about fundamental basketball.
I agree with most you said, but will remind you we lost to Merrimack last season. And that was the first game. Board was lit up. Did not take long to be upbeat with the Providence win. Just to crash with the Radford effort.
Never a lack of events triggering calling for CC’s head
Seems like it's becoming obvious what all of our players are! Almost like there's a pattern of stagnation and falling short of expectations. Real shame there isn't someone we could pay millions of dollars to make sure we have good recruits and/or that they get better at basketball.
This game was simply decided because Pitt wanted it more. There was a short stretch in the 2nd half where the Cats were up 54-48 where Pitt missed a shot and both Gaines and Buie are down low and they both just stand there instead of working to box out Champagnie and he works to get the rebound, scores and gets fouled by Gaines. Terrible effort by both Gaines and Buie. Champagnie then missed the free throw and there’s a semi long rebound where most of our guys just stand around and the Pitt guy who’s standing at the 3 pt line gets the rebound and then they hit a 3 to make it 54-53. A 5-7 point swing in 10 seconds because our guys were lazy and got completely out worked. Unacceptable.
But they did in fact finish 8-23 last year. Not exactly a great performance by a coach in his 7th season........
Yep. Some stuff you just can't control, but things like that should pretty much never happen.
Didn’t realize he ran the PO! I have no desire to return to the days of scoring 53 points mostly from backdoor cuts.
What does the Phillips departure mean for Collins' future? On the one hand, Phillips was personally invested in Collins, since he hired him, so presumably Collins had an exceptionally long leash that might not exist with a new AD. On the other hand, a new AD might not be so quick to impose his or her will and instead will give incumbents the benefit of the doubt.
I think a lot will depend on the economics. Collins is under contract for 4 more years, but no one knows what the buy-out is in the event he is sacked. I seriously doubt NU will pony up multi-millions of bucks to send him away, regardless of how the team plays. Unless a big booster writes the check........
Men’s Basketball is the one place a new ambitious AD can make his mark. Fitz isn’t going anywhere and the facilities are done.
Eating that many years on a contract is unlike NU. If we show a slight pulse this year and get back into the NIT discussion next year, my expectation is CC would stay, maybe with a pro forma extension for recruiting purposes.
I don’t know what kind of AD candidate we can attract if we don’t let them do anything. I’d happily take the job in that case, and sit on my ass doing nothing except go to games and hand out contract extensions.
Agreed, especially If we go with an up and coming AD in their 40s we should expect that they will want to do SOMETHING. If we go with someone who views this is a capstone job and is maybe 5-10 years from retirement then maybe they just stay the course and let Collins ride out his contract.
Rutgers hired a no-namer and seems to be doing pretty well with him. For all the mocking of them since they've come into the conference, they now have a better men's basketball team than we do, and their football will improve under Schiano.
I still support Collins and have high expectations for this team. One disappointing game where we blew a decent lead and our best shooter had an off night. It happens. We have lost some silly games in football, as well, over the years.
I have closely followed our bball team for the last 35 years. Which non-Collins team would people honestly choose over this one? 03-04, 08-09, 10-11, 11-12? I believe if this team played any of those 10 times, this year would have a winning record.
I have closely followed our bball team for the last 35 years. Which non-Collins team would people honestly choose over this one? 03-04, 08-09, 10-11, 11-12? I believe if this team played any of those 10 times, this year would have a winning record.
It’s great that you believe that, but I think that Shurna, Juice, Crawford, and Coble would all be the best player on this team.
Let’s wait for Beran or Berry or Nance to become stars before we believe they are.
The point is that NU is the toughest job in the B1G. IMO it isn’t close. Rutgers is an easier job in basketball. Established Coach or no name will have a tough time here.
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