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Kinda off topic, Shannon Files Against Illinois

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EagerFan

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www.espn.com

Shannon files for restraining order against Illinois

Terrence Shannon Jr. filed for a temporary restraining order on Monday that demands his school "immediately reinstate" the Illinois guard after he was suspended indefinitely last month following an arrest on a rape charge.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

"We are aware that legal counsel for Terrence Shannon Jr. has filed for injunctive relief from his suspension from the men's basketball program," Robin Kaler, associate chancellor at Illinois, said in a statement. "We will review the filing and defend our student-athlete misconduct procedures, which allow us to respond swiftly to allegations of misconduct and serious crimes while affording our student-athletes a fair process and waiting for the legal system and university discipline processes to proceed."

I'm curious how this will play out.
 
My tendency is to side with a player if the matter is in doubt as it appears to be. So I would let him play although I realize the University is in a whole nother position. The media is very reluctant to provide detail concerning sexual assaults but all I could find is that she claims he touched her inappropriately in a bar. I don't want to get into what constitutes sexual assault, the rights of women and that men are beasts arguments, but in my youth I frequented bars in Lawrence, KS and by today's standards the cops could have parked a paddy wagon outside the front door of some bars and filled it several times on a party night.
 
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techtim72 said:
My tendency is to side with a player if the matter is in doubt as it appears to be. So I would let him play although I realize the University is in a whole nother position. The media is very reluctant to provide detail concerning sexual assaults but all I could find is that she claims he touched her inappropriately in a bar. I don't want to get into what constitutes sexual assault, the rights of women and that men are beasts arguments, but in my youth I frequented bars in Lawrence, KS and by today's standards the cops could have parked a paddy wagon outside the front door of some bars and filled it several times on a party night.
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That's a pretty solid argument that today's standards are superior to those of your youth. It's still not easy to be a woman in such places, but it's certainly better than it was then.
From this morning's Chicago Tribune:
The woman told police she didn’t say anything to the man before he started pulling her toward him, putting his hands under her skirt and touching her sexually. She said the room was so crowded she couldn’t “do anything,” the affidavit said.
Naturally, we don't know how much of this is true, but it's a serious allegation, and the authorities investigated for several months before filing charges. This doesn't strike me as a Duke Lacrosse rush-to-judgment situation.
 
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Good for her.

She’s obviously been subjected to multiple interviews and submitted her browser history. This is far more than “he said she said”, unless her dream has always been to accuse a visiting basketball player of sexual battery during the football season.

As far as I can tell, she didn’t even “have it coming.”

Eff that guy.
 
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Well, even if the University of Illinois decides that it has no authority to suspend a player for conduct detrimental to the team - which is preposterous - I feel veeeeery confident that coach Underwood would do the ethical thing and refuse to play Shannon in a game.

unless they were losing.
 
If Shannon has NBA dreams, losing this playing time could be seen as significantly damaging to his future potential earnings.

iirc, the university was notified that police were investigating the case as early as September, although I think the AD or someone similar claimed they didn't know anything was going on. I don't think you can say they 'rushed to judgement' so much as they waited until the police actually issued an arrest warrant.

Now even that may be premature and we'll see what happens in court.
 
PURPLECAT88 said:
That's a pretty solid argument that today's standards are superior to those of your youth. It's still not easy to be a woman in such places, but it's certainly better than it was then.
From this morning's Chicago Tribune:
The woman told police she didn’t say anything to the man before he started pulling her toward him, putting his hands under her skirt and touching her sexually. She said the room was so crowded she couldn’t “do anything,” the affidavit said.
Naturally, we don't know how much of this is true, but it's a serious allegation, and the authorities investigated for several months before filing charges. This doesn't strike me as a Duke Lacrosse rush-to-judgment situation.
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Douglas County and the City of Lawrence are not podunk nowhere. The County and City are not particularly large, but they are reasonably sophisticated. Kansans tend to be pretty reasonable, deliberate folks so It is highly unlikely anyone has a bias towards Shannon or that a rush to judgement has occurred.

Kansas students - apparently who are relegated to living in "such places" - in bars or anywhere else are no better or worse than students anywhere. I'd argue their values are typically better than most but that wouldn't be informed or worth the breath.

PS Just read the charge. Even in my youth, doing what was alleged would have landed you on the floor with a broken bottle embedded in your head. And then the girl's male friends would have had their turn.

Based on that charge, I don't think the University had any choice but to suspend.
 
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Shannon was accompanied by 2 from U of I, McCullars & Dickinson, none of whom know who this person is. She googles Kansas State football team, Kansas football & basketball teams, Illinois football & basketball teams, said TSJ looks like the guy. She didn't file a complaint till 15 hours later, to sober up?
Douglas County DA just went thru a hearing to see if she should be disbarred. 3-person "jury" hasn't yet ruled. Douglas County is famous for sentencing innocent young black men for rape.
 
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barney31 said:
Shannon was accompanied by 2 from U of I, McCullars & Dickinson, none of whom know who this person is. She googles Kansas State football team, Kansas football & basketball teams, Illinois football & basketball teams, said TSJ looks like the guy. She didn't file a complaint till 15 hours later, to sober up?
Douglas County DA just went thru a hearing to see if she should be disbarred. 3-person "jury" hasn't yet ruled. Douglas County is famous for sentencing innocent young black men for rape.
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AND SHE WAS ASKING FOR IT.

I trust you and your friends have begun harassing her.
 
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barney31 said:
Shannon was accompanied by 2 from U of I, McCullars & Dickinson, none of whom know who this person is. She googles Kansas State football team, Kansas football & basketball teams, Illinois football & basketball teams, said TSJ looks like the guy. She didn't file a complaint till 15 hours later, to sober up?
Douglas County DA just went thru a hearing to see if she should be disbarred. 3-person "jury" hasn't yet ruled. Douglas County is famous for sentencing innocent young black men for rape.
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Is it possible that she was aware that Kansas was playing Illinois in a football game and that the guy who assaulted her looked like an athlete? Then she used the internet to find out who it was?
 
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The excuse making by the Illini fan base around Shannon is expected but still disgusting. Dude is charged with rape. He has to sit until this is adjudicated. Period. Next.
 
Probably the case the poster was referring to when stating Douglas County is famous for sentencing innocent young black men for rape:

lawrencekstimes.com

Albert Wilson files wrongful conviction lawsuit 4 months after rape case is dismissed

Albert Wilson, whose Lawrence rape case made headlines across the country, has filed a wrongful conviction lawsuit against the state of Kansas.
lawrencekstimes.com lawrencekstimes.com

If nothing else, it is likely that there is a lot of sensitivity in the Douglas County DA's office to Shannon's case.
 
barney31 said:
Shannon was accompanied by 2 from U of I, McCullars & Dickinson, none of whom know who this person is. She googles Kansas State football team, Kansas football & basketball teams, Illinois football & basketball teams, said TSJ looks like the guy. She didn't file a complaint till 15 hours later, to sober up?
Douglas County DA just went thru a hearing to see if she should be disbarred. 3-person "jury" hasn't yet ruled. Douglas County is famous for sentencing innocent young black men for rape.
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It would be possible to mistake Shannon for McCullers, but not for Dickinson. Was McCullers the KU basketball player identified as with Shannon at the incident? Shannon was known to be there and I doubt there was another 6-6 athlete hanging around.

If McCullers was also there, or even if he wasn’t, I’m not sure if her being sure it was him is going to hold up given everything, but she really did her research.
 
NUCat320 said:
AND SHE WAS ASKING FOR IT.

I trust you and your friends have begun harassing her.
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I bet she wore a mini skirt. Skank!

This idiot thinks it's strange she googled athletes. Makes sense, when I see a bunch of very tall dudes my mind surely goes to "normal, just random friends who happen to be all very tall". No one would ever think they must be a part of a sports team.

It's not that there are not horror stories for men when it comes to stuff like this. The Duke lacrosse thing is very famous. But how dumb to not give a woman the benefit of the doubt. I bet the number of legit cases is over 99% in favor of women.

I don't usually resort to name calling, but what an idiotic take. The take of people that see the 1% of cases where men are wronged and immediately run with it to show how unfair the world is to men.
 
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techtim72 said:
Douglas County and the City of Lawrence are not podunk nowhere. The County and City are not particularly large, but they are reasonably sophisticated. Kansans tend to be pretty reasonable, deliberate folks so It is highly unlikely anyone has a bias towards Shannon or that a rush to judgement has occurred.

Kansas students - apparently who are relegated to living in "such places" - in bars or anywhere else are no better or worse than students anywhere. I'd argue their values are typically better than most but that wouldn't be informed or worth the breath.
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Techtim72, I think you misunderstood my reference when I said "such places". I meant college bars and other drinking establishments where young people congregate. I was not making any sort of derogatory geographical reference. I have never been to Lawrence, but everyone I've met who went to school there or even visited speaks of it in very positive terms.
 
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GatoLouco said:
I bet she wore a mini skirt. Skank!

This idiot thinks it's strange she googled athletes. Makes sense, when I see a bunch of very tall dudes my mind surely goes to "normal, just random friends who happen to be all very tall". No one would ever think they must be a part of a sports team.

It's not that there are not horror stories for men when it comes to stuff like this. The Duke lacrosse thing is very famous. But how dumb to not give a woman the benefit of the doubt. I bet the number of legit cases is over 99% in favor of women.

I don't usually resort to name calling, but what an idiotic take. The take of people that see the 1% of cases where men are wronged and immediately run with it to show how unfair the world is to men.
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There is no “benefit of the doubt” when it comes to criminal matters. There is, however, evidence. There is a strong string of evidence here that Shannon was certainly there, within a few feet, at the exact time the event occurred. He’s only very very indirectly connected to the incident and the accuser/victim has a very credible and evidence supported story of the research she did that ultimately involved accusing a very specific person who happened to be very specifically there. Thats what matters, not benefit of the doubt, evidence.
 
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AdamOnFirst said:
There is no “benefit of the doubt” when it comes to criminal matters. There is, however, evidence. There is a strong string of evidence here that Shannon was certainly there, within a few feet, at the exact time the event occurred. He’s only very very indirectly connected to the incident and the accuser/victim has a very credible and evidence supported story of the research she did that ultimately involved accusing a very specific person who happened to be very specifically there. Thats what matters, not benefit of the doubt, evidence.
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This is absurd. Based on what’s been released, there is literally not one shred of evidence she even talked to him … zero witnesses, no surveillance, no DNA evidence. You just don’t like Illinois, and you probably also assume anyone charged with something is guilty.

You can put your faith in the fact that the DA who is currently being investigated to lose her license has an ace up her sleeve she hasn’t divulged yet … I’m skeptical.
 
Fighter of the Nightman said:
This is absurd. Based on what’s been released, there is literally not one shred of evidence she even talked to him … zero witnesses, no surveillance, no DNA evidence. You just don’t like Illinois, and you probably also assume anyone charged with something is guilty.

You can put your faith in the fact that the DA who is currently being investigated to lose her license has an ace up her sleeve she hasn’t divulged yet … I’m skeptical.
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Did you read 1. the documents that described the surveillance evidence (since you said “no surveillance” exists… seems like you didn’t) or 2. my comment in this thread that I’m unsure if the evidence as currently described will be sufficient to sustain and indictment?

I really honestly don’t care if he did it or not. I hope if he did it he’s convicted and if he didn’t he isn’t. I don’t really intend to follow it that closely and don’t have a strong feeling or attachment about it.
 
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Fighter of the Nightman said:
This is absurd. Based on what’s been released, there is literally not one shred of evidence she even talked to him … zero witnesses, no surveillance, no DNA evidence. You just don’t like Illinois, and you probably also assume anyone charged with something is guilty.

You can put your faith in the fact that the DA who is currently being investigated to lose her license has an ace up her sleeve she hasn’t divulged yet … I’m skeptical.
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Actually, I don’t think there are reports that they spoke. Just that he beckoned her over and assaulted her when she got within arm’s length. Never even gave her his name. Hilarious.
 
NUCat320 said:
Actually, I don’t think there are reports that they spoke. Just that he beckoned her over and assaulted her when she got within arm’s length. Never even gave her his name. Hilarious.
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I think you’re describing last week’s Illinois-NW game.
 
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PurpleWhiteBoy said:
Is it possible that she was aware that Kansas was playing Illinois in a football game and that the guy who assaulted her looked like an athlete? Then she used the internet to find out who it was?
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In fact, that’s almost exactly what she said. Also Shannon has that stupid hair dye. It’s pretty easy to ID him.
 
Vassar69 said:
I think you’re describing last week’s Illinois-NW game.
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Kind of, I guess. Reading the above report, it’s pretty clear that the surveillance and internet search history matches the story exactly as told. As our #1 Illinois troll, I hope you believe that Shannon should suspended.

@Fighter of the Nightman, our #3 Illinois troll, thinks the whole sexual battery thing is hilarious.
 
NUCat320 said:
Kind of, I guess. Reading the above report, it’s pretty clear that the surveillance and internet search history matches the story exactly as told. As our #1 Illinois troll, I hope you believe that Shannon should suspended.

@Fighter of the Nightman, our #3 Illinois troll, thinks the whole sexual battery thing is hilarious.
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Sounds shady against Shannon. Like I said other than against us I like watching him play.
 
I have a difficult time understanding how anyone can casually speculate one way or another in an unknowable matter like this or express joy in a potential punishment, particularly when a young man faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 12 years or so of his life.
 
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NUCat320 said:
Kind of, I guess. Reading the above report, it’s pretty clear that the surveillance and internet search history matches the story exactly as told. As our #1 Illinois troll, I hope you believe that Shannon should suspended.

@Fighter of the Nightman, our #3 Illinois troll, thinks the whole sexual battery thing is hilarious.
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I 1000% think he should be suspended at this point in time. If his legal status changes, then I’d welcome him back.

The reality is, we have no idea what happened. Some day the criminal matter will be resolved conclusively, but it’s not today. With all the unknowns at this moment in time, I am very content with how this has been handled by the university.
 
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techtim72 said:
I have a difficult time understanding how anyone can casually speculate one way or another in an unknowable matter like this or express joy in a potential punishment, particularly when a young man faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 12 years or so of his life.
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That’s what they charged him with given these claims?
 
AdamOnFirst said:
That’s what they charged him with given these claims?
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Don't understand the question. If the question is relative to the minimum sentence, yes, that is what I read in a media report. Seems like an extreme potential penalty to me for what occurred but apparently in Kansas what was alleged qualifies as a serious rape charge and serious rape charges tend to be unforgiving.
 
techtim72 said:
Don't understand the question. If the question is relative to the minimum sentence, yes, that is what I read in a media report. Seems like an extreme potential penalty to me for what occurred but apparently in Kansas what was alleged qualifies as a serious rape charge and serious rape charges tend to be unforgiving.
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I mean, if what is alleged is true, he penetrated a woman against her will. That’s rape. Why should it matter particularly whether it was his dick or his fingers?
 
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thewildcat2011 said:
I mean, if what is alleged is true, he penetrated a woman against her will. That’s rape. Why should it matter particularly whether it was his dick or his fingers?
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Without implying any position on the existing charges, about which I have no legal knowledge or understanding, there is a significant difference between the two across several dimensions
 
AdamOnFirst said:
Without implying any position on the existing charges, about which I have no legal knowledge or understanding, there is a significant difference between the two across several dimensions
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Eh. Not the way most statutes are written.
 
Hungry Jack said:
I guess.

But if some guy attempted to go Deliverance on me (I have spent ample time in the backcountry, and thankfully have not ever gotten that vibe), I would not be thinking about which body part.
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Smack him with the banjo he just set down while Burt Reynolds aims his shot…
 
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