Kinda off topic, Shannon Files Against Illinois
- Thread starter EagerFan
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Considering the Wildside still taunts that one Purdue player with "DUI!" chants, next Wednesday could get spicy.
As it should. TSJ didn’t get charged on a whim. It was after months of an investigation… some judge trying to win votes threw him a bone. We gotta beat these bastards.
The judge actually said that Shannon will suffer financial damage, so they have to let him play while he awaits trial.
That seems idiotic.
That seems idiotic.
espn has an article up on 'what you need to know about each conference' and the two paragraph B1G section includes a mention of Shannon being arrested for a rape charge, so career (financial) damage seems legit whether he plays or not.
He'll suffer more financial damage when he's convicted and spends years in prison.
If this was Buie rather than Shannon I'd lay $1000 that all of you would be defending his right to "innocent until proven guilty", and thus the right to play until the case is settled in court. Other than a lot of questionable circumstances surrounding this case, and the fact it took the DA 3 months+ to level charges, no one but the two people involved know what actually happened or didn't happen. Let's give them their day in court, and presumed innocence of the accused until found guilty or not. You and I would hope for the same for any Wildcat athlete or coach.
You and I likely have identical politics when it comes to judges and everything else you mention... and I still think this is a horrible take. This is a narrow legal question based on maintaining TSJ's legal rights and avoiding irreparable damages to TSJ prior to his criminal proceedings, which start next month. If I'm reading it correctly, the judge found that TSJ would have substantial irreparable harm by being not permitted to play and that since he has a right to a presumption of innocence in his trial and was also deemed to have some likelihood of having success in his criminal trial. In other words, in order to protect Shannon's presumption of innocence, he cannot have irreparable harm done to him before he is found guilty, since it is at least somewhat likely he won't be.
The (female) judge also ordered that IF Illinois does wish to suspend TSJ, then he is required to receive at LEAST the protections of the official school Title IX conduct policies. That seems critical to me, I wonder if Illinois will shoot back by instigating a Title IX investigation on him and pushing through that hearing process. Of course, we know that process usually takes forever. It is, however, only based on a preponderance of evidence, so it seems that would be something they could do if they wanted to come down harder and try their luck in court again.
This isn't about being tough or soft on criminals, its about what legal rights TSJ has or doesn't have as a student at Illinois and his right to a presumption of innocence.
He charged with rape after a multi-month investigation. Sorry his draft stock is going down but actions have consequences. Maybe he’ll get off on a technicality but there’s clearly enough smoke to charge. There’s no way he should be playing basketball. Go to class, yeah. Hoops, no.
First, enough information to charge and enough to convict are far far different things. Second, I’m not sure it isn’t wrong to say the University owes Shannon the same Title IX process any other student “enjoys.”
A more interesting argument you could make is if Underwood should play him. The school itself, not the program, was the entity that suspended Shannon from the team, not Underwood or even the department. It seems far more clear cut to me that a coach has very very broad right to decide if a player can’t be around the team, how much or if they play, and to define their own team rules as they see fit. This order doesn’t force Underwood to play him, and I’m not sure at all that he should.
But that’s different that the university itself not following its own policies.
He was playing 30 min per game before his suspension. Not playing him is effectively suspending him. Which they’re not allowed to do. He will play, unless the university pursues a punishment under Title IX.
The UNIVERSITY isn't allowed to suspend him WITHOUT a Title IX process. The injunction doesn't say anything about a the coach. I have a very hard time believing Shannon would be successful in court arguing his coach is obligated to make strategic playing decisions based on anything the court is willing to argue. I'm pretty sure this order doesn't directly prevent Underwood from saying he's suspended from team activities due to conduct detrimental, in Underwood's view, to the team.
"The Defendant, The Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois, and all of its officers (including, but not limited to, Defendant Timothy Killeen), administration, employees, units, divisions, affiliates, and other agents, are hereby enjoined from continuing to suspend Plaintiff from the basketball team pursuant to the DIA Policy. Defendants are enjoined from suspending Plaintiff from the basketball team without at least affording him the protections of the OSCR Policy. The obligations of Defendants pursuant to this Order are to be construed as broadly as possible. This Order shall remain in effect until modified or terminated by a subsequent order."
I’m not an attorney but I think Underwood falls under this order.
It doesn’t matter anyways. Underwood is an angry dirtbag. He’d play him regardless.
You're probably right about Underwood suspending him from team activities, but I think you're almost definitely wrong about Underwood just benching him. Shannon would have to go back to court and make that argument and it would be very likely unsuccessful.
This is literally from your douche coach… last night: Stay hot, Jimmy Vassar
Would love to see a fight between Undy and Fran. Two very ornery men.
Underwood by KO in the 8th. Fran’s head would explode. That man gets as red as a tomato when he’s mad!
Here’s the thing it isn’t Boo instead of TSJ. One is a moron to get him self into this situation especially when Undie provided babysitters. TSJ and the babysitters put him in this situation,
If the girl in question was your daughter I am sure you would not take the time to come to a board of another team to post such moronic opinions.
As much as I hate Illinois, we should refrain from calling TSJ a rapist until we actually have the facts a situation like this can really tarnish a persons name, especially if he’s not guilty.
We don’t know the entire story. What we do know is the DA felt there was significant evidence to file a charge. They don’t file charges on “he said, she said”. This isn’t 1954 like some want us to believe. The allegations are pretty graphic. Saying nothing happened seems extraordinarily unlikely. Wherever there is enough to convict, who knows. These are serious allegations! An acquittal doesn’t always mean nothing happened. If TSJ is being framed, I hope that comes out for the sake of the young man.
We do know that all will be forgiven by some if Undie wins the Big and gets to the final 4.
Bracing for what the students may do next week. In the late 80s when the Illini came into WRA ranked #1, the students were brutal toward Kenny Battle. It was embarrassing.
I am definitely not a fan of Illinois basketball but in this case I agree with the judge. Letting him play will not alter the case or trial one bit. No matter what the public evidence is, it is not right for the University to say because he was charged, he is suspended, if convicted then they can officially suspend him. But this case is not going to go to trial until later this year. When it does, if he is found guilty, then he will go to prison. That is the punishment. The University is not the judge here and putting together a title IX case without all the evidence is not possible. I am still a believer in innocent until proven guilty. That goes for everyone, even Illini basketball players.
Law dictates that he’s innocence till proven guilty but playing for a NCAA program is not a right
My understanding is that the school, program, or coach has ability to keep him away from basketball activities if they believe it would hurt him, team, program, or school
He can make a civil case that their actions potentially hurt his future earnings. Guessing that school could try to do the same to him but as he likely has limited pockets, wouldn’t other than to leverage other party to drop case
My understanding is that the school, program, or coach has ability to keep him away from basketball activities if they believe it would hurt him, team, program, or school
He can make a civil case that their actions potentially hurt his future earnings. Guessing that school could try to do the same to him but as he likely has limited pockets, wouldn’t other than to leverage other party to drop case
Amen. They better be brutal. TSJ appears to be a total scumbag. The “no means no” chant would me more than appropriate given these serious allegations.
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