Lack of speed on offense is a problem

[ricko654321]

You think ACC when you think "high end, track speed difference makers?"

Duke's wideouts ran much better routes and had much better separation than on our deep throws, which mostly seemed like "chuck it and hope." Lloyd ran a nice post route on a cover-4 beater for his TD ("stepped on his toes" then broke to the post; deep posts always give Hank's defense problems, especially when the QB has time to let them develop) and Rahming absolutely toasted Hartage on an option route for his TD. The FB wheel was a nice little design and completely fooled our LBs.

Whether you want to blame it on scheme or on our wideouts' physical shortcomings, something has to give if we want to generate a legitimate downfield passing game.

Yeah, when I alluded to "maybe coaching" in my last post I was thinking route running and technique, and when I alluded to "maybe play calling" I was thinking that we could be more creative. It's tough to do interesting things when pass blocking breaks down because you don't have time, but it's also easier for a defense to attack and play downhill when they are less worried about getting beat over the top or laterally by some sort of clever / deceptive play designs.

It's a combination of multiple different factors, but this "Whether you want to blame it on scheme or on our wideouts' physical shortcomings, something has to give if we want to generate a legitimate downfield passing game" is 100% true...

 

[DaCat]

Lees and Jefferson are fast. This whole lack of speed discussion is overblown. That is not the main problem.

Well, I would like to see more speed. I don't think my eyes were deceiving me when watching this game.

 

[Chuckster1973]

It seemed it to me when our receivers went deep and gained some separation it was minimal as duke coverage was right there with them.

 

[corbi296]

It seemed it to me when our receivers went deep and gained some separation it was minimal as duke coverage was right there with them.

What kind of separation do you need to see to consider a receiver "open"? This isn't playground grade school football. You rarely will see receivers with more than a step or two of separation and, when it does happen, it is likely the result of a missed assignment, DBs having to cover for an inordinate amount of time, a pick play or a DB in man coverage biting on a double move. Separation at this level is much more likely to result from quickness and great route running than flat out speed. I agree we don't have anyone with blazing track speed among our skilled players but few teams do. We do have speedy WRs and I thought our guys did a decent job of getting open but did not execute the catches when Thorson had enough time to get them ball. Our WRs can certainly get better at route running and catching the ball when it hits them in the hands but I doubt you'll see much improvement in our passing offense until our OL does a much better job of pass blocking than they did last weekend.

 

[Chuckster1973]

Thanks for the information. Not being a football Aficionado myself, there's obviously a big difference between separation and a blown assignment where the guy is two or three or four more yards open.

 

[freewillie07]

What kind of separation do you need to see to consider a receiver "open"? This isn't playground grade school football. You rarely will see receivers with more than a step or two of separation and, when it does happen, it is likely the result of a missed assignment, DBs having to cover for an inordinate amount of time, a pick play or a DB in man coverage biting on a double move. Separation at this level is much more likely to result from quickness and great route running than flat out speed. I agree we don't have anyone with blazing track speed among our skilled players but few teams do. We do have speedy WRs and I thought our guys did a decent job of getting open but did not execute the catches when Thorson had enough time to get them ball. Our WRs can certainly get better at route running and catching the ball when it hits them in the hands but I doubt you'll see much improvement in our passing offense until our OL does a much better job of pass blocking than they did last weekend.

You are nitpicking. Whether it’s outright speed, imprecise route running or an inability to catch balls in traffic, our receivers are not major threats. Again. Aside from Nagel.

This is disappointing to people like myself who came into the season saying this was the deepest WR group NU has had in a while. I know Vault and Brown aren’t playing, but I had hoped that between Lees, Skowronek, JJ Jefferson, Jace James, McGowan, Fessler, RCB, etc etc, that someone would emerge.

 

[ricko654321]

What kind of separation do you need to see to consider a receiver "open"? This isn't playground grade school football. You rarely will see receivers with more than a step or two of separation and, when it does happen, it is likely the result of a missed assignment, DBs having to cover for an inordinate amount of time, a pick play or a DB in man coverage biting on a double move. Separation at this level is much more likely to result from quickness and great route running than flat out speed. I agree we don't have anyone with blazing track speed among our skilled players but few teams do. We do have speedy WRs and I thought our guys did a decent job of getting open but did not execute the catches when Thorson had enough time to get them ball. Our WRs can certainly get better at route running and catching the ball when it hits them in the hands but I doubt you'll see much improvement in our passing offense until our OL does a much better job of pass blocking than they did last weekend.

The kind of separation Lloyd had on his post route... there’s a difference between the kind of separation whereby a pinpoint pass can complete a deep ball (which is what our guys had, ex maybe one where unfortunately CT misfired) vs a relatively easy completion cause the DB is beat (which is what they had on a couple occasions).

Though tbh I’m not even quite sure what the point is you are arguing here, you seem to be challenging everything others write just for the sake of disagreeing in this thread...

 

[corbi296]

The kind of separation Lloyd had on his post route... there’s a difference between the kind of separation whereby a pinpoint pass can complete a deep ball (which is what our guys had, ex maybe one where unfortunately CT misfired) vs a relatively easy completion cause the DB is beat (which is what they had on a couple occasions).

Though tbh I’m not even quite sure what the point is you are arguing here, you seem to be challenging everything others write just for the sake of disagreeing in this thread...

Did you rewatch the game? I did and that play was the result of Newsome sitting on the first move and the fact that Jones had all day to let the route develop, step up in a clean pocket and deliver an accurate pass without any pressure on him. That was not the result of a speed deficit.

 

[corbi296]

You are nitpicking. Whether it’s outright speed, imprecise route running or an inability to catch balls in traffic, our receivers are not major threats. Again. Aside from Nagel.

This is disappointing to people like myself who came into the season saying this was the deepest WR group NU has had in a while. I know Vault and Brown aren’t playing, but I had hoped that between Lees, Skowronek, JJ Jefferson, Jace James, McGowan, Fessler, RCB, etc etc, that someone would emerge.

Nitpicking? The title of this thread is "lack of speed on offense is a problem". Given that, how is pointing out that the main problem(s) lie elsewhere being nitpicky? If you don't understand what the real problem is, how are you ever going to fix it? According to some, all we have to do to is go out and recruit a bunch of track stars and all our problems will be resolved. Based on what I am seeing, that couldn't be further from the truth. Without improved offensive line play and receivers who catch balls that are put right into their hands, no amount of speed will fix the problems we saw on Saturday.

 

[ricko654321]

Did you rewatch the game? I did and that play was the result of Newsome sitting on the first move and the fact that Jones had all day to let the route develop, step up in a clean pocket and deliver an accurate pass without any pressure on him. That was not the result of a speed deficit.

Huh? I was using that as an example of the type of separation that I would like to see our receivers get. Incidentally I think it was less Newsome sitting, and more that he initially expected some safety help there given the coverage scheme but by the time he turned and realized a split second later that the S had jumped down on the underneath route, he'd been burned and couldn't get back there.

But the reason for Newsome getting beat has nothing to do with our WRs not getting separation. You just asked how much separation is considered a good amount, I was citing that as an example.

 

[corbi296]

Huh? I was using that as an example of the type of separation that I would like to see our receivers get. And I think it was less Newsome sitting, and more that he initially expected some safety help there but by the time he realized a split second later that the S had jumped down on the underneath route, he'd been burned and couldn't get back there.

But the reason for Newsome getting beat has nothing to do with our WRs not getting separation. You just asked how much separation is considered a good amount, I was saying that was an example.

Good luck with that. You won’t often see that kind Of separation at the P5 level. Passing Windows are much smaller at this level.

 

[ricko654321]

Good luck with that. You won’t often see that kind Of separation at the P5 level. Passing Windows are much smaller at this level.

Alright buddy. I have watched, ya know, maybe juuuuuuust a little bit of P5 level college football in my life. In my opinion, our WRs get less separation on average than those of other teams. But I guess you disagree.

 

[corbi296]

Alright buddy. I have watched, ya know, maybe juuuuuuust a little bit of P5 level college football in my life. In my opinion, our WRs get less separation on average than those of other teams. But I guess you disagree.

Agreed, buddy.

 

[BobbCat14]

At what point does it not even matter what the cause is? Top DBs don’t get beat by double moves / the guys are just not fast enough / good recruits with grades are hard to find / the line can’t hold their blocks / poor route running / thorson is hurt so he isn’t a running threat / indifferent coaching etc is an interesting thing to ponder but the bottom line doesn’t change. The receivers just aren’t open and it’s on Fitz and the staff to isolate the problems and implement the fixes.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Alright buddy. I have watched, ya know, maybe juuuuuuust a little bit of P5 level college football in my life. In my opinion, our WRs get less separation on average than those of other teams. But I guess you disagree.

Clayton is a statue back there. He needs to be more mobile

 

[corbi296]

At what point does it not even matter what the cause is? Top DBs don’t get beat by double moves / the guys are just not fast enough / good recruits with grades are hard to find / the line can’t hold their blocks / poor route running / thorson is hurt so he isn’t a running threat / indifferent coaching etc is an interesting thing to ponder but the bottom line doesn’t change. The receivers just aren’t open and it’s on Fitz and the staff to isolate the problems and implement the fixes.

Then what do we have to talk about the rest of the week?

 

[BobbCat14]

Then what do we have to talk about the rest of the week?

My main point is that we really need the staff to fix whatever it is. It’s been going on for too long.

I have a personal opinion about what it is but my second point is that nobody can possibly be right about the causes, at least until the staff makes changes of whatever nature that actually fix the problem.

Then we would be able to figure out what the problem was. If we change coaches and it gets fixed, then that’s it. If we lower admissions to get “better” players that’s it. Whatever it is will be known with time. I’m just sick of watching other teams throw 60 yard bombs to wide open receivers who juked their CB and got wide open and we can’t get a guy open without running blatant pick plays.

 

[loyolacat]

no matter how we define it how bout we just call it movement that is either speed, quickness, fastness, zoom zoom, it is something that forces the opposing defense to play two deep safeties and not put 8 in the box and be skeptical of crowding the los and playing man to man.?